Over the past few years, we've all played some pretty terrible and some pretty awsome MMORPGs.  If you've looked at the more creative MMORPGs you might notice a stronger community base, such as Face of Mankind, or Warhammer Online.  With these games, you are somewhat forced to cooperate with your faction and people you don't know.  With that in mind, I still play other games with the people I played Face of Mankind with, and Warhammer.  More games should be released with idea of building communities, and not just online chat rooms.

And by that I mean design a game so players have to work together, and when people work together, they get to know the person, and when they get to know the person, they decide if they want to stay affiliated with them, and if they do, they can build a guild together, and in turn, will sometimes create a new community not just in that game, but for all the games they play.

It's really simply, but suprisingly lacking in todays market.

For a community-based game, the following elements must be present:

1.  Dangerous world (be it PVE or PVP) requiring grouping to increase odds of survival.  A stinging death penalty is part of this.

2.  Downtime between fights in order for there to be an opportunity to chat.

3.  Experience-grind-based gameplay rather than quest tasks, so that folks don't drop out of Pick-up groups just because they finished a quest ahead of everyone else.

4.  Decent chat system, group and zone-based.  World-wide chat doesn't work, because you have nothing in common with someone on the other side of a continent.  But there is something to be had in common with folks in your group or the same zone.

In summary, a reason to stick together with others, dependency upon others for mutual survival, and time to socialize while doing those things.  This builds strong communities and even friendships.

Originally posted by pencilrick

It's really simply, but suprisingly lacking in todays market.

For a community-based game, the following elements must be present:

1.  Dangerous world (be it PVE or PVP) requiring grouping to increase odds of survival.  A stinging death penalty is part of this.

2.  Downtime between fights in order for there to be an opportunity to chat.

3.  Experience-grind-based gameplay rather than quest tasks, so that folks don't drop out of Pick-up groups just because they finished a quest ahead of everyone else.

4.  Decent chat system, group and zone-based.  World-wide chat doesn't work, because you have nothing in common with someone on the other side of a continent.  But there is something to be had in common with folks in your group or the same zone.

In summary, a reason to stick together with others, dependency upon others for mutual survival, and time to socialize while doing those things.  This builds strong communities and even friendships.

 

Is it just me, or did you just describe every asian MMO ever made? Of which all seem to be bombs in the west...

Dangerous PvE and PvP is fine I guess, but the dangerous PvP often leaves only a small section of the game PvPing. You need to remember that the broad base of players are casual, and will therefore shun a PvP system where they have too much risk. I would say that drives the community apart, and makes clicks, rather than a whole community.

Downtime between fights is universally shuned. Back when I played eq1, years ago, it was often just a good time to bitch about the healer not having enough Flowing Thought gear, and slowing down the group. Between friends, or a guild, it might be a good time to chat. For people just wanting to play, it is a reason to blame others for your slow moving.

Grinding usually ends up just being AoE parties. Quests are where it is at to actually keep people entertained. Pretty much any game that is released now that is grind based will be instantly shot to hell, because people just wont do it. There is a reason asian grinders have that name, and there is a reason that it is an instant turn off. A bit of grinding on mobs here and there is fine, but being screwed into it is just a pain in the ass, because you are just killing with no real purpose.

Zone based chat is fine I guess... Most games have that anyway. But, if anyone has played MUDs, you will know that most of them have a server wide OOC channel, which is usually the main "community" area. Every MUD I ever played ended up as a glorified chatroom, of which the global channel was the only reason to even log on.

Originally posted by Rallycart

Originally posted by pencilrick

It's really simply, but suprisingly lacking in todays market.

For a community-based game, the following elements must be present:

1.  Dangerous world (be it PVE or PVP) requiring grouping to increase odds of survival.  A stinging death penalty is part of this.

2.  Downtime between fights in order for there to be an opportunity to chat.

3.  Experience-grind-based gameplay rather than quest tasks, so that folks don't drop out of Pick-up groups just because they finished a quest ahead of everyone else.

4.  Decent chat system, group and zone-based.  World-wide chat doesn't work, because you have nothing in common with someone on the other side of a continent.  But there is something to be had in common with folks in your group or the same zone.

In summary, a reason to stick together with others, dependency upon others for mutual survival, and time to socialize while doing those things.  This builds strong communities and even friendships.

 

Is it just me, or did you just describe every asian MMO ever made? Of which all seem to be bombs in the west...

Dangerous PvE and PvP is fine I guess, but the dangerous PvP often leaves only a small section of the game PvPing. You need to remember that the broad base of players are casual, and will therefore shun a PvP system where they have too much risk. I would say that drives the community apart, and makes clicks, rather than a whole community.

Downtime between fights is universally shuned. Back when I played eq1, years ago, it was often just a good time to bitch about the healer not having enough Flowing Thought gear, and slowing down the group. Between friends, or a guild, it might be a good time to chat. For people just wanting to play, it is a reason to blame others for your slow moving.

Grinding usually ends up just being AoE parties. Quests are where it is at to actually keep people entertained. Pretty much any game that is released now that is grind based will be instantly shot to hell, because people just wont do it. There is a reason asian grinders have that name, and there is a reason that it is an instant turn off. A bit of grinding on mobs here and there is fine, but being screwed into it is just a pain in the ass, because you are just killing with no real purpose.

Zone based chat is fine I guess... Most games have that anyway. But, if anyone has played MUDs, you will know that most of them have a server wide OOC channel, which is usually the main "community" area. Every MUD I ever played ended up as a glorified chatroom, of which the global channel was the only reason to even log on.

I was describing early EQ1, which had more going for it than against.  Never had such a community-building experience than in that game.  

Zone chat brought life to zones.  Group chat was active during downtime.  And downtime wasn't boring because you were constantly hoping you would heal/mana up before the respawns started popping.

Was a fantastic game in its time, and many of its elements are timeless and much in need to be implemented in future games.

Your reference to Asian games doesn't wash, because I have played some of those too and they suck for reasons other than the design elements I have just mentioned.

The bottom line is do you want to be in a "world" while adventuring with others to stay alive and accomplish things, or do you want to be in some quest-driven story arc on training wheels, being spoon-fed your next assignment?  I don't know about others, but I am done, done, done with the latter.

Not speaking for you, just a question in general, because that appears to be the choice.

Originally posted by pencilrick

It's really simply, but suprisingly lacking in todays market.

For a community-based game, the following elements must be present:

1.  Dangerous world (be it PVE or PVP) requiring grouping to increase odds of survival.  A stinging death penalty is part of this.

2.  Downtime between fights in order for there to be an opportunity to chat.

3.  Experience-grind-based gameplay rather than quest tasks, so that folks don't drop out of Pick-up groups just because they finished a quest ahead of everyone else.

4.  Decent chat system, group and zone-based.  World-wide chat doesn't work, because you have nothing in common with someone on the other side of a continent.  But there is something to be had in common with folks in your group or the same zone.

In summary, a reason to stick together with others, dependency upon others for mutual survival, and time to socialize while doing those things.  This builds strong communities and even friendships.

 

I agree with 3 out of 4 points, except for #3. IMO, most MMOs on the market can facilitate strong communities, however this responsibility is in the hands of the players. How this responsibility is handled is based on the maturity level of the players.

Best MMO community I seen have EQ2, WAR don't have anything in the same league as that. Never tried face of mankind though.

EQ2 is basicly a PvE based group game so player do have to group all the time, and almost all players are friendly. Great community.

WAR is still so new game so cthe community havn't really formed up in that way yet. lso you are not really so forced to group up there if you compare the games.

The guild community works great in Guildwars, too bad that the general community kinda sux, few people that works together there.

But you are right, when people have to work together, it will shape it's players and the community is half the game. It seems like really big games have harder to keep a good community too.

I would really like a nice game where your guild actually would build a big city together, not like AoC but where you actually plan everything together and you really can plan how your city will work in peace and war. Kinda a mix between current MMOs and RTS games with some SIM city in it.

Originally posted by pencilrick

It's really simply, but suprisingly lacking in todays market.

For a community-based game, the following elements must be present:

1.  Dangerous world (be it PVE or PVP) requiring grouping to increase odds of survival.  A stinging death penalty is part of this.

2.  Downtime between fights in order for there to be an opportunity to chat.

3.  Experience-grind-based gameplay rather than quest tasks, so that folks don't drop out of Pick-up groups just because they finished a quest ahead of everyone else.

4.  Decent chat system, group and zone-based.  World-wide chat doesn't work, because you have nothing in common with someone on the other side of a continent.  But there is something to be had in common with folks in your group or the same zone.

In summary, a reason to stick together with others, dependency upon others for mutual survival, and time to socialize while doing those things.  This builds strong communities and even friendships.

 

The only thing I can agree with in that list is number 4.

Being unable to accomplish anything solo will drive away casual gamers, who do make up a sizable portion of a game. People usually start out alone, then wander the world, pick up a group, groups turn into guilds. If anything, the game needs a sensible LFG system to faciiliate grouping AND it needs sensible rewards for actually teaming up, but simply requiring groups will make people leave.

High death penalties don't really help either. Time based death penalties do. Allows the player (or rather "suggests" to him) to spend a little time chatting and maybe venting how he just died, which creates noise in the public channels and make the game feel alive.

PUGs aren't really forming a community. They are a necessary evil for many, so they form up a group with some random strangers only to forget about them as soon as they log off. They will remember good players and add them to their friends, they might remember the bad ones and add them to the "avoid like the plague" list, but this isn't really what a community is based on.

What a strong community really needs is a way to communicate, as you suggested in your fourth idea. That's something I consider critical. You also need a way to faciliate forming groups and guilds. A sensible and customizable LFG system can make or break a community, the same applies to a sensible clan/guild system.

hate  to say it but the best communities in mmos i've seen was in group  based games where the only soloing going on was done to mobs several lvls lower than you and even then you had a fair chance of dying.

of all the ones i've tried EQOA had the best community, even tho the game was seriously lacking in content. sony for what ever reason didn't support the ps2 hard drive for it wich ment no easy way to update expansions or even minor patches. through all of that i met alot of great people on there had real friendships with not just grouping up with random people to get some specific item i want for what an hour tops?

said this before you don't get to know people in these new solo "mmos" they're making now adays. atleast not like you did in the group grind games where you're in a laid back setting (not dungeon wich is the only real reason to group anymore in other games) grinding mobs and just chatting about everything and anything.  dungeons tend to be less forgiving if some one isn't paying 100% attention, and if the dungeon was that forgiving then you'd just have another MC with 1/2 the raid afking through it usually not even socializing just sucking up loot because they have more "brownie points" than the newer guys actually doing the work.

Originally posted by Chlodwig

Originally posted by pencilrick

It's really simply, but suprisingly lacking in todays market.

For a community-based game, the following elements must be present:

1.  Dangerous world (be it PVE or PVP) requiring grouping to increase odds of survival.  A stinging death penalty is part of this.

2.  Downtime between fights in order for there to be an opportunity to chat.

3.  Experience-grind-based gameplay rather than quest tasks, so that folks don't drop out of Pick-up groups just because they finished a quest ahead of everyone else.

4.  Decent chat system, group and zone-based.  World-wide chat doesn't work, because you have nothing in common with someone on the other side of a continent.  But there is something to be had in common with folks in your group or the same zone.

In summary, a reason to stick together with others, dependency upon others for mutual survival, and time to socialize while doing those things.  This builds strong communities and even friendships.

 

The only thing I can agree with in that list is number 4.

Being unable to accomplish anything solo will drive away casual gamers, who do make up a sizable portion of a game. People usually start out alone, then wander the world, pick up a group, groups turn into guilds. If anything, the game needs a sensible LFG system to faciiliate grouping AND it needs sensible rewards for actually teaming up, but simply requiring groups will make people leave.

High death penalties don't really help either. Time based death penalties do. Allows the player (or rather "suggests" to him) to spend a little time chatting and maybe venting how he just died, which creates noise in the public channels and make the game feel alive.

PUGs aren't really forming a community. They are a necessary evil for many, so they form up a group with some random strangers only to forget about them as soon as they log off. They will remember good players and add them to their friends, they might remember the bad ones and add them to the "avoid like the plague" list, but this isn't really what a community is based on.

What a strong community really needs is a way to communicate, as you suggested in your fourth idea. That's something I consider critical. You also need a way to faciliate forming groups and guilds. A sensible and customizable LFG system can make or break a community, the same applies to a sensible clan/guild system.

I don't think soloing should be ruled out, but if you have a significant (not crippling) death penalty, then folks will group as sort of an insurance policy.  While soloing, still viable, will be a lot more risky.

PUG's build community IF you rely on your comrades for survival, which in turn is meaningful if the death penalty has some "sting" to it.

Example:  Folks on the Titanic who worked together to survive probably built stronger bonds than folks tossed into a swimming pool.  The latter would probably never even talk to one another except for occasional superficial chit chat.

You see the same in real life among soldiers.  Infantry squads can become quite tight after going through a few rounds of combat.  They learn to respect and reply upon one another and build a mutual appreciation that just wasn't there in training.

So, in MMO's, we need the "sting" of dying to foster community as well as respect for the environment. 

You know, there were some dungeons in EQ I never ventured into, because I had heard stories about them and respected them so much.  My imagination about them went wild, even though I never set foot inside them.