Originally posted by daarco

I think the title for theis thread should be something like "The Fall of Narrowminded thinking" instead. Maybe people will see there is more then one way to play a MMO. And for this thread, all i can see id fear. Plain fear. Either fear that DF wil fail...or succed and destroy the mainstream idea of what a MMO is.

 Ah yes and then there is the DF fan that thinks everyone that doesn't believe the hype has some kinda Phobia. Yes we've heard it all from the fans time and time again "When Darkfall comes out those WoW playing carbears are gonna crap all over themselves, their that scared of Df!"

  So what exactly do you think the Op and the rest of us with doubts are doing right now? Popping valuim, covering under our computer desk with loaded weapons waiting for the DF police to come pick us up and and take us to some secret aventurine reeducation camp where we will never be seen from again?

  Well I gues its your opinion can't much argue against that.

PS. I do appreciate all the fans popping in and giving good examples of why people might not be to crazy about this game due to the kind,reasonable,mature and tolerant community itself.

Originally posted by radlin

Right now just before the inevitable release of this game is where I fully expect Darkfall to be at it's highest success.  Websites across the internet are full of hype, noise, bickering, and questions about this game which makes lot of promises not yet seen in a 3D mmo.  We have to go all the way back to the years when the Darktide server of Asherons Call and to the 2D Ultima Online before Trammel was ever added to see the sortof game play that Darkfall promises.

And now, I fully expect that Darkfall is close to its highest peak in its long history.  Hype.  If there is such a thing as 'The Great White Hype", then Darkfall is certainly "The Great Dark Hype".

And don't get angry about my predictions here.  They are honest and sincere.  I DO think that once Darkfall is released to the public, that it will fail miserably and the dropoff of its success from all of its years of hype will be a very sharp decline right after it does release.

A lot of you sit on the forums for months, even years yapping on and on and on about how great this game will be and how it will finally be the holy grail of mmo games to everyone who has desired a more challenging online experience.  So, what's wrong with me making this prediction now.. one that I fully believe will happen.

Every mmo game with even a fraction of this much hype and anticipation over the past seven years that was made by such a small unheard of group of developers has failed.  And it seems that the more attention that it got, the more hype it had, the harder it failed and the more it just plain out "sucked".

With Darkfall, this long into its development, and supposedly this close to it's launch, there is simply way too many unanswered questions by anyone that isn't sitting behind the doors of the Aventurine office seeing exactly what the Aventurine people want them to see.  Nobody else has seen the game outside of those offices, and certainly  nobody from an established and reputable position has seen anything about this game.  Unless ofcourse you want to include all the hype and promises.  There is way too much hype and promises and simply not nearly enough concrete truth about this game so close to its promised launch.

Do I think Darkfall will launch?  Yep, probably.  When?  I'd sure hope it does launch soon.  This hype machine has gone on way too long already.  It's more then time this game either delivers or dies.  I think we can figure where I stand on where I think this game will land.  I honestly believe that once this game is launched to the public, it will quickly become one of the most hyped up video game failures to EVER be launched.  It will become the butt of all video game jokes in the mmo community for years to come.  You fans want my reasons?  My reasons are simply the lack of real reasons to believe in this game.

The fall of Darkfall is coming...

 

Good post.

Although there is an important aspect of this issue which need to be sorted..........define "fail" in numbers.

I said that because quite frankly people like you, thinks that the fanboys think that DF will reach the 1+ Million mark.
Which is not actually what the fans think.

For DF fans, success means firstly a game that we like, and second we expect around 200-250k at least.
For us that rapresent success.

Now if DF reach this mark, you cannot claim DF is a fail, because everyone is saying that the numbers will be around that, so no one is really expecting more than that.

The only people who is hyping DF are the trolls (not you) who suggest that that fans expect the game to beat WoW, creating a false expectation, and indirectly hyping the game itself.
The hype don't come from the DF fans........we are far more realistic.
We just want a game that we like, not a game that everybody likes.....................
Actually I tell you something,  if the game reaches the Million mark subscribers (very unlikely) then I would start to worry...............

Finally, the majority of DF fans is aware that the game might fail, simply because there are so many features that could mess everything up if not done properly.
But until we see what Aventurine has done, why doubt their work?
After all we will have a chance to try it before we buy it.
So it's a win win, my money is not going to leave my pocket until I play the game.........that's for sure.
And I believe majority of DF fans will follow my example.

You are welcome to your opinion as well as the OP. However, could you both please explain why  DarkFall will be a mess, give sources, and explain who qualifies as critically aware in  your books.

Apparently your American counterparts who visited and reviewed do not count as critically aware . Nor does the Greek media, or Italians, or independent reporters.  Do not even talk about the public at large who viewed the  Offical game play trailer . Or anyone that reads the developers updates.

What about all the fake Beta reviewers impressions  that Tasos engineered himself to trick us, all lies. The pictures of Aventurine offices are clearly doctored or staged.

I could go on, but if you aren't convinced, there isn't much more I can do.

warcry, converted vapor trolls, Yellow beards visit to Aventurine + pics,  People have seen it, played it, found it worth while publicizing in media, and given it good reviews. 

 Edit: read up on the game, give it a chance, otherwise its all pointless. 

---

Originally posted by radlin
Right now just before the inevitable release of this game is where I fully expect Darkfall to be at it's highest success.  Websites across the internet are full of hype, noise, bickering, and questions about this game which makes lot of promises not yet seen in a 3D mmo.  We have to go all the way back to the years when the Darktide server of Asherons Call and to the 2D Ultima Online before Trammel was ever added to see the sortof game play that Darkfall promises.
And now, I fully expect that Darkfall is close to its highest peak in its long history.  Hype.  If there is such a thing as 'The Great White Hype", then Darkfall is certainly "The Great Dark Hype".
And don't get angry about my predictions here.  They are honest and sincere.  I DO think that once Darkfall is released to the public, that it will fail miserably and the dropoff of its success from all of its years of hype will be a very sharp decline right after it does release.
A lot of you sit on the forums for months, even years yapping on and on and on about how great this game will be and how it will finally be the holy grail of mmo games to everyone who has desired a more challenging online experience.  So, what's wrong with me making this prediction now.. one that I fully believe will happen.
Every mmo game with even a fraction of this much hype and anticipation over the past seven years that was made by such a small unheard of group of developers has failed.  And it seems that the more attention that it got, the more hype it had, the harder it failed and the more it just plain out "sucked".
With Darkfall, this long into its development, and supposedly this close to it's launch, there is simply way too many unanswered questions by anyone that isn't sitting behind the doors of the Aventurine office seeing exactly what the Aventurine people want them to see.  Nobody else has seen the game outside of those offices, and certainly  nobody from an established and reputable position has seen anything about this game.  Unless ofcourse you want to include all the hype and promises.  There is way too much hype and promises and simply not nearly enough concrete truth about this game so close to its promised launch.
Do I think Darkfall will launch?  Yep, probably.  When?  I'd sure hope it does launch soon.  This hype machine has gone on way too long already.  It's more then time this game either delivers or dies.  I think we can figure where I stand on where I think this game will land.  I honestly believe that once this game is launched to the public, it will quickly become one of the most hyped up video game failures to EVER be launched.  It will become the butt of all video game jokes in the mmo community for years to come.  You fans want my reasons?  My reasons are simply the lack of real reasons to believe in this game.
The fall of Darkfall is coming...
 

---

there is one thing that you missed. as of late, most games that have been over hyped were just wow clones...so all the people from wow that wanted something a little different checked out said over hyped game (AoC, Warhammer, Tabula Rasa, etc)and realized they were just playing the same game with a difference, they didnt have their teir 234896 epic armor bs nonsense, so they went back.

---

Originally posted by Drukstylz
You are welcome to your opinion as well as the OP. However, could you both please explain why  DarkFall will be a mess, give sources, and explain who qualifies as critically aware in  your books.
Apparently your American counterparts who visited and reviewed do not count as critically aware . Nor does the Greek media, or Italians, or independent reporters.  Do not even talk about the public at large who viewed the  Offical game play trailer . Or anyone that reads the developers updates.
What about all the fake Beta reviewers impressions  that Tasos engineered himself to trick us, all lies. The pictures of Aventurine offices are clearly doctored or staged.
I could go on, but if you aren't convinced, there isn't much more I can do.
warcry, converted vapor trolls, Yellow beards visit to Aventurine + pics,  People have seen it, played it, found it worth while publicizing in media, and given it good reviews. 
 Edit: read up on the game, give it a chance, otherwise its all pointless. 

---

You have to take any review from Greece/Italian media with a grain of salt. There is a lot of self-padding on the back there. "Look at what we made, isnt it awesome!" doesnt make it so, how ever much pride you take in it, if it is not awesome, for example.

Gameplay trailer means nothing, anyone with time can make a fake one using a 3d program.. We need to see the actual game ;)

Plus being an europe game will make NA people have issues related to latency, important in any kind of pvp game, especially if there's twich combat involved.

Population, or lack of it, will sink this, if it ever comes out, is my opinion.

Originally posted by Drukstylz

You are welcome to your opinion as well as the OP. However, could you both please explain why  DarkFall will be a mess, give sources, and explain who qualifies as critically aware in  your books.

Apparently your American counterparts who visited and reviewed do not count as critically aware . Nor does the Greek media, or Italians, or independent reporters.  Do not even talk about the public at large who viewed the  Offical game play trailer . Or anyone that reads the developers updates.

What about all the fake Beta reviewers impressions  that Tasos engineered himself to trick us, all lies. The pictures of Aventurine offices are clearly doctored or staged.

I could go on, but if you aren't convinced, there isn't much more I can do.

warcry, converted vapor trolls, Yellow beards visit to Aventurine + pics,  People have seen it, played it, found it worth while publicizing in media, and given it good reviews. 

 Edit: read up on the game, give it a chance, otherwise its all pointless. 

wow, good post ...

Asking a critic as to why he comes to his conclusions is mostly  because "he has a feel", "he had a bad experience with game <insert game here>" , "this remembers him on game <insert game here>" or mostly no backup or proof  lol

 /QFE

Darkfall is destined to fail for a very important reason. The game itself might be fantastic, but MMO's have become more and more the realm of teens and tweens, and they don't take losing well, neither do they win with any measure of integrity. It's all foul mouthed abuse and smack talk. As soon as one of these kids loses a fight it'll be the game's fault. 'There's not a good enough PvP consequence system in place!' 'I keep getting ganked by higher level people!' etc ad nausium...

These kids will ruin any game that they are involved in and no matter how many more mature players remain in that game they will deem it an 'epic failure'.

The problem is that the game companies are counting on these kids sticking around, because that's where the numbers are, and so when the WoWphiles leave in droves, the game eventually does fail.

If Adventurine has planned on Darkfall being a niche' game with a moderate following of 50-150k people, then it will be a success. If they have sunk too much into it expecting it to be a WoW killer, then it will fall flat on it's face.

The only things I'll add to this discussion (I'm an neither a fanboi or a troll, I really don't care one way or the other whether darkfall makes it or fails) are.

1) Full on PvP games tend to canibalize their own playerbase

2) Full on PvP games tend to attract the worst of the worst gamers (not all PvPers are bad, but the worst of them seem attracted to them as seen in AoC/SB)

3) The OP has a point, NOT in whether it will fail financially but rather idealisticly.  People (not the company) are setting DF up as the holy grail of MMOs.  They are setting their expectations to the point where they can not help but be disappointed when it comes out.  No niche game will ever be the savior of the MMO Genre.  This disappointment added to the the population the will attract will hamper DFs finanical future, though it may not cause it to 'fail' or be a 'failure' to anyone but those who set their opinions too high to start with.  I call this, managed expectations, something gamers are not very good with (myself included).  If you expect more than a game can give, you will never be happy with the game you get.  Thus it will be a failure, but in a way the game can't offset.

4) I really do hope the game is as good as those who wish to play it, want it.  I'm not going to hold my breath as past experience in this kind of game does not give me much confidence (I am a Shadowbane veteran and spent time in both L2 and AoC)

5) Don't be so quick to discount the opinions of others, perhaps if those who followed AoC and WAR had listened a bit more, perhaps those games would of been less of a 'failure' due to better managed expectations.  With better managed expectations, the games might of had the opportunity to start out smaller and then grow, rather than starting out big, only to shrink to a size the infrastructure was too big to support.

Originally posted by Raston

The only things I'll add to this discussion (I'm an neither a fanboi or a troll, I really don't care one way or the other whether darkfall makes it or fails) are.

1) Full on PvP games tend to canibalize their own playerbase

2) Full on PvP games tend to attract the worst of the worst gamers (not all PvPers are bad, but the worst of them seem attracted to them as seen in AoC/SB)

3) The OP has a point, NOT in whether it will fail financially but rather idealisticly.  People (not the company) are setting DF up as the holy grail of MMOs.  They are setting their expectations to the point where they can not help but be disappointed when it comes out.  No niche game will ever be the savior of the MMO Genre.  This disappointment added to the the population the will attract will hamper DFs finanical future, though it may not cause it to 'fail' or be a 'failure' to anyone but those who set their opinions too high to start with.  I call this, managed expectations, something gamers are not very good with (myself included).  If you expect more than a game can give, you will never be happy with the game you get.  Thus it will be a failure, but in a way the game can't offset.

4) I really do hope the game is as good as those who wish to play it, want it.  I'm not going to hold my breath as past experience in this kind of game does not give me much confidence (I am a Shadowbane veteran and spent time in both L2 and AoC)

5) Don't be so quick to discount the opinions of others, perhaps if those who followed AoC and WAR had listened a bit more, perhaps those games would of been less of a 'failure' due to better managed expectations.  With better managed expectations, the games might of had the opportunity to start out smaller and then grow, rather than starting out big, only to shrink to a size the infrastructure was too big to support.

Originally posted by Raston 

3) The OP has a point, NOT in whether it will fail financially but rather idealisticly.  People (not the company) are setting DF up as the holy grail of MMOs.  They are setting their expectations to the point where they can not help but be disappointed when it comes out. 

Who are these people? They aren't people that post here (well maybe one).

Unless you are saying that people who think that 1) The game might exist and 2) It might be good are setting their expectations too high I can't see them.

I don't know if Darkfall is going to be a failure or not. I guess not. I hope really not.

But there is something that has been said that i have to agree.

it's impossible Darkfall is going to be all the different Darkfalls that you can see people guessing, imagining, wishing.Moreover It's easy to see how some people, here and in the official forums, have let grown their expectations too much.

Some or a lot of these people, i don't know, will be disappointed. In the best case, if the game delivers what has been promised, it will be just one game, not all the wished games you could see around.

I'm not playing any game right now, I'm waiting for Darkfall and Aion releases. i got the time to read a lot about Darkfall, the problem was that there isn't a lot of official info and probably due to this lack of information people is trying to guess what the game will be, and in this process each one has added his/her own wishes and imagination. Lot of information, more than the common sens advise, has been inducted from old interviews, from ambiguous tells coming from Aventurine's Team.

I never posted here nor in the official boards, my doubts and the contradictions i see in all these readings, I'm not going to do it now either, because it is pointless to ask  people or to try to argue about the game when the boards are just a war of flames. Anyway the game is close and we all will see it and experience it. I hope very soon.

Getting back to the OP's original statement...

I don't think  FAN-GENERATED hype will destroy this game. There's nothing wrong with people getting excited about promised features. The problem is when the developers fail to deliver on the promised features. It seems like all of the high-profile MMO* that have been released recently have failed to deliver, but the problem is Darkfall has set such a high bar for itself that it's a given that very few of the promised features will be available on launch - or do you truly believe Darkfall will have more content that WOW, better naval combat than Pirates of the Burning Sea, etc etc etc ?

God i can't wait for this game to release

why?

CAUSE THEN EVERYONE CAN SHADDUP!

sheesh......

Originally posted by miagisan

God i can't wait for this game to release

 

why?

 

CAUSE THEN EVERYONE CAN SHADDUP!

 

sheesh......

 

I know for a fact you don't mean that, I mean you're probably as interested in the game as I am, it's like a digital car crash on the opposite carriageway. You know you shouldn't look but you just can't help yourself. 'tis sick/fun entertainment and the damn thing isn't even released lol
 

Originally posted by efefia

Originally posted by miagisan

God i can't wait for this game to release

 

why?

 

CAUSE THEN EVERYONE CAN SHADDUP!

 

sheesh......

 

I know for a fact you don't mean that, I mean you're probably as interested in the game as I am, it's like a digital car crash on the opposite carriageway. You know you shouldn't look but you just can't help yourself. 'tis sick/fun entertainment and the damn thing isn't even released lol
 

ef knows me too well

now shut up and give me more cuddlin'!

Darkfall looks like a great game!

For me to POOP ON! 

Originally posted by imbant

Originally posted by SignusM

 I think people are overhyping the hype....

 

Age of Conan and WAR hype was heard throughout the industry. Even the WoW players who didn't know there was an MMORPG gengre, only WoW, heard echoes of AoC hype, and the following failure. 

 

Darkfall is really only whispered hopefully between people who have been waiting for a real MMO since the regression of the industry following WoW's release. 

 

Yes this is exactly what I mean.   It is the trolls who are playing this overhype card and it is getting old.

I mean seriously do you ever see even a minority of the fanbase going around and typing "oh holy tasos has proclaimed this game to be the best and it is mark my words".  Of course not...most of the fans are also skeptics but we have a little more faith in taking what the developers say as truth while others cry conspiracy.

This game is definitely not overhyped.  It is underhyped and if anything has the lowest expectations by the general public that a game has had in a long time.

Really? It's the trolls that are over-hyping the game? Really?:

http://bp2.blogger.com/_ynOlmkpsf8U/SFd32-9utjI/AAAAAAAAAO0/5p1FlqkicrY/s1600-h/Dimfall_012_pt1.jpg 

I hope taht the game is fun.  I also hope that they let me play it.

No but really these people can see through hype.  Thats not to say they aren't excited, but Darkfall is not a new audience, its for experienced MMO players who have tried pretty much everything and are seeking something simmilar to an old favorite.  That means many dissapointments along the way, and so by now we know how it works.  Doesn't mean we wont try it.

Originally posted by radlin

blahblah fail blah everyone else failed blahblah 

FFS, is there some kind of supervirus on MMORPG.com that forces morons to make inane threads about subjects they have no clue about?

You use small dev team as a reason why DF will fail (that was the only concrete thing I could find from that pool of stupidity). Right after the fail of Vanguard, AoC and (to a less extent) WAR. By now it should be obvious that team size matters very little.

Originally posted by Raston

The only things I'll add to this discussion (I'm an neither a fanboi or a troll, I really don't care one way or the other whether darkfall makes it or fails) are.

1) Full on PvP games tend to canibalize their own playerbase

2) Full on PvP games tend to attract the worst of the worst gamers (not all PvPers are bad, but the worst of them seem attracted to them as seen in AoC/SB)

3) The OP has a point, NOT in whether it will fail financially but rather idealisticly.  People (not the company) are setting DF up as the holy grail of MMOs.  They are setting their expectations to the point where they can not help but be disappointed when it comes out.  No niche game will ever be the savior of the MMO Genre.  This disappointment added to the the population the will attract will hamper DFs finanical future, though it may not cause it to 'fail' or be a 'failure' to anyone but those who set their opinions too high to start with.  I call this, managed expectations, something gamers are not very good with (myself included).  If you expect more than a game can give, you will never be happy with the game you get.  Thus it will be a failure, but in a way the game can't offset.

4) I really do hope the game is as good as those who wish to play it, want it.  I'm not going to hold my breath as past experience in this kind of game does not give me much confidence (I am a Shadowbane veteran and spent time in both L2 and AoC)

5) Don't be so quick to discount the opinions of others, perhaps if those who followed AoC and WAR had listened a bit more, perhaps those games would of been less of a 'failure' due to better managed expectations.  With better managed expectations, the games might of had the opportunity to start out smaller and then grow, rather than starting out big, only to shrink to a size the infrastructure was too big to support.

1&2. EVE, one of the best and most helpful MMO communities you'll find. Also, at least to me, it seems there's way less retards in EVE than in other popular games.

3. I don't consider it The Holy Grail of MMO's, I consider it the only MMO that piques my interest.

4. Shadowbane failed because of shitty programming, that happens all the time, even in the big titles. Please, don't even mention AoC or L2 in the same thread with DF ever again.

5. We are not the developers, nor do the developers care about what the fans think. God bless 'em for that.

Originally posted by Raston

The only things I'll add to this discussion (I'm an neither a fanboi or a troll, I really don't care one way or the other whether darkfall makes it or fails) are.

1) Full on PvP games tend to canibalize their own playerbase

2) Full on PvP games tend to attract the worst of the worst gamers (not all PvPers are bad, but the worst of them seem attracted to them as seen in AoC/SB)

 

What you are calling "full on" PvP is often referred to as FFA PvP, which means free for all. No rules, you can attack anyone, anywhere, anytime.

Darkfall isn't actually going to be FFA PvP, because if you attack someone, in certain situations the game will flag you and make it harder to progress in the game.

We won't know how harsh these PvP penalties will be, until we see the game. They could be anything from who cares, to screw PvP in the wrong situation, it's not worth it the penalty is so harsh.

Originally posted by radlin

Right now just before the inevitable release of this game is where I fully expect Darkfall to be at it's highest success.  Websites across the internet are full of hype, noise, bickering, and questions about this game which makes lot of promises not yet seen in a 3D mmo.  We have to go all the way back to the years when the Darktide server of Asherons Call and to the 2D Ultima Online before Trammel was ever added to see the sortof game play that Darkfall promises.

And now, I fully expect that Darkfall is close to its highest peak in its long history.  Hype.  If there is such a thing as 'The Great White Hype", then Darkfall is certainly "The Great Dark Hype".

And don't get angry about my predictions here.  They are honest and sincere.  I DO think that once Darkfall is released to the public, that it will fail miserably and the dropoff of its success from all of its years of hype will be a very sharp decline right after it does release.

A lot of you sit on the forums for months, even years yapping on and on and on about how great this game will be and how it will finally be the holy grail of mmo games to everyone who has desired a more challenging online experience.  So, what's wrong with me making this prediction now.. one that I fully believe will happen.

Every mmo game with even a fraction of this much hype and anticipation over the past seven years that was made by such a small unheard of group of developers has failed.  And it seems that the more attention that it got, the more hype it had, the harder it failed and the more it just plain out "sucked".

With Darkfall, this long into its development, and supposedly this close to it's launch, there is simply way too many unanswered questions by anyone that isn't sitting behind the doors of the Aventurine office seeing exactly what the Aventurine people want them to see.  Nobody else has seen the game outside of those offices, and certainly  nobody from an established and reputable position has seen anything about this game.  Unless ofcourse you want to include all the hype and promises.  There is way too much hype and promises and simply not nearly enough concrete truth about this game so close to its promised launch.

Do I think Darkfall will launch?  Yep, probably.  When?  I'd sure hope it does launch soon.  This hype machine has gone on way too long already.  It's more then time this game either delivers or dies.  I think we can figure where I stand on where I think this game will land.  I honestly believe that once this game is launched to the public, it will quickly become one of the most hyped up video game failures to EVER be launched.  It will become the butt of all video game jokes in the mmo community for years to come.  You fans want my reasons?  My reasons are simply the lack of real reasons to believe in this game.

The fall of Darkfall is coming...

 

Honest opinion no flamming... its a good post pretty much sums up my feelings.

Originally posted by sandboxy

Originally posted by Raston

The only things I'll add to this discussion (I'm an neither a fanboi or a troll, I really don't care one way or the other whether darkfall makes it or fails) are.

1) Full on PvP games tend to canibalize their own playerbase

2) Full on PvP games tend to attract the worst of the worst gamers (not all PvPers are bad, but the worst of them seem attracted to them as seen in AoC/SB)

3) The OP has a point, NOT in whether it will fail financially but rather idealisticly.  People (not the company) are setting DF up as the holy grail of MMOs.  They are setting their expectations to the point where they can not help but be disappointed when it comes out.  No niche game will ever be the savior of the MMO Genre.  This disappointment added to the the population the will attract will hamper DFs finanical future, though it may not cause it to 'fail' or be a 'failure' to anyone but those who set their opinions too high to start with.  I call this, managed expectations, something gamers are not very good with (myself included).  If you expect more than a game can give, you will never be happy with the game you get.  Thus it will be a failure, but in a way the game can't offset.

4) I really do hope the game is as good as those who wish to play it, want it.  I'm not going to hold my breath as past experience in this kind of game does not give me much confidence (I am a Shadowbane veteran and spent time in both L2 and AoC)

5) Don't be so quick to discount the opinions of others, perhaps if those who followed AoC and WAR had listened a bit more, perhaps those games would of been less of a 'failure' due to better managed expectations.  With better managed expectations, the games might of had the opportunity to start out smaller and then grow, rather than starting out big, only to shrink to a size the infrastructure was too big to support.

 

1&2. EVE, one of the best and most helpful MMO communities you'll find. Also, at least to me, it seems there's way less retards in EVE than in other popular games.

3. I don't consider it The Holy Grail of MMO's, I consider it the only MMO that piques my interest.

4. Shadowbane failed because of shitty programming, that happens all the time, even in the big titles. Please, don't even mention AoC or L2 in the same thread with DF ever again.

5. We are not the developers, nor do the developers care about what the fans think. God bless 'em for that.

Never really played EVE, tried it decided it wasn't for me and moved on.

3.  You may not, but I've seen countless others (though more in the past than now, I'll admit) think that this was going to be shadowbane the way it was meant to be.  Much the same way that people saw (including me) AoC (thus the mention).  I think of PvP games, L2 was probably one of the best so far, just their community was quite horrid.  But no, shadowbane didn't die due to shitty programming as you put it, they died due to the elitest attitude that the game brought in, I watched it happen.  Now, you might argue that it was the programming that brought out the exploits, but tell me, what MMO has been without exploits?  None, people are resourceful when they want to be and find ways to do things the programmers would of never thought of.  These are the people who would use any exploit they could to win, the community that would constantly wipe brand new players (just trying to get a foot hold in the world) till they decided the game wasn't worth their time and moved on(I saw this more than once, I was fortunate and had a guild there when I started).  The people who decided that those who couldn't handle that were just babies, never stopping to realize that those people where their future competition that never got to exist.  That is the type of mentality that FFA PvP brings, and even to some extend restricted PvP.  People can't get over the concept that just because you can do a thing, you shouldn't necessarily take the offer.  We as a gaming populace do not police ourselves very well and I've yet to see a PvP game that hasn't brought out this mentality.  Now, if this was a PvE game, I'd be right there with ya, I love the concepts they have spoke of, but I'm getting too old to deal with all the epeens these PvP centric games bring in...

5) I'm not talking about the developers here, I'm talking about personal expectations.  One persons opinions and their own personal disappointment when the game doesn't meet them.  If PEOPLE set the expectations too high, then they will almost always be disappointed, it doesn't matter if it is a game, a sporting event, a new job, anythign in life, if your expecations are too high, then you will be disappointed and will often not see the pluses, only what isn't there (I've fallen to this numberous times, so I am not without this fault too).

As someone else mentioned above, there are apparently going to be some restrictions on PvP, that would probably help, but the hard core PvPers (the very ones who destroyed the future of SB and whined and complained about restrictions in AoC) will find it a disappointment, not that that is a bad thing, but it is something else to consider.  I remember back before launch, they wanted full PvP, cities included in AoC, no safe places, because they wouldn't have had to go anywhere to gank people.  You will get the same whiners here too and I hope the devs DON'T cave into them for the sake of the game.

Like I said before, I hope the game is good and that it doesn't fail economically (even though I do not intend to play it), I just don't have the patience for PvP games anymore...

Why I should be hyped if there is not even an official release date? Most of the people dont follow game developments. Most of this nerd rage you see on these forums are not the mayority. Until I don't see any official statement about a release date I don't even bother looking for more info other than the one available in the official website. It's that simple.

Originally posted by arkady09

Its going to have to fail pretty badly to beat AoC in the butt of mmo jokes arena.

AoC is the new benchmark in EPIC FAILURE.

Umm you forget the game Dark and Light... that is an Epic Failure, at least AoC has lasted longer, and will probably last longer than DnL, AA & TR