Originally posted by solareus

 I support these changes, it puts minstrels where they need to be.

 Sounds to me like a bit of class jealousy going on here. Thats ok,  after a gold in repairs and respecs and a complete revamp or two of my skill bar setup at lvl 50 I can now solo a pair of lvl 52's ( oranges) w/o dying. Can kill em pretty quick too. A single orange takes me about 20secs , a yellow about 10 - 15 secs.

Of course that still does not make it right. If it takes that much work to figure out how to solo that still means Turbine gets a D- on the class redesign. Can you say cookie cutter trait trees boys and girls. We will all look and play the same now, those that have the perseverance to figure it out that is. I guess in a way that is a good thing as I will have my pick of  groups. Most minnies will quit before going through the BS I did just to be able to play.

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Originally posted by Jackdog

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Originally posted by solareus

 I support these changes, it puts minstrels where they need to be.

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 Sounds to me like a bit of class jealousy going on here. Thats ok,  after a gold in repairs and respecs and a complete revamp or two of my skill bar setup at lvl 50 I can now solo a pair of lvl 52's ( oranges) w/o dying. Can kill em pretty quick too. A single orange takes me about 20secs , a yellow about 10 - 15 secs.
Of course that still does not make it right. If it takes that much work to figure out how to solo that still means Turbine gets a D- on the class redesign. Can you say cookie cutter trait trees boys and girls. We will all look and play the same now, those that have the perseverance to figure it out that is. I guess in a way that is a good thing as I will have my pick of  groups. Most minnies will quit before going through the BS I did just to be able to play.

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Jackdog let me know what you changed because I just want my minnie's feeling back, this sucks and I'm not about to level my alts before my main just to get into new content. I love my minnie ; ;

Oh ya or start a new Moria class in the same bullshit I've been through 5-6 times how hard is it to make new damn low level content, god damnit Turbine stop thinking inside the box!

Anychance he was gimped to begin with , with bad traits ? and now you have the actual set you need ? Not saying your a bad player, but it can happen that when changes are made, you actually see "O wow , I was gimped" it happened to my guardian last night lol.

How about another rhetorical question since you won't consider this one:

Any chance Turbine really screwed up?

I love the content of Moria itself, but Turbine really messed up some good class balance from before.

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Originally posted by Svayvti
How about another rhetorical question since you won't consider this one:
Any chance Turbine really screwed up?
I love the content of Moria itself, but Turbine really messed up some good class balance from before.

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Oh they did, just die hard fans won't realize it till after the new content dies off.

Just for the record, my guardian is "awesome"

One thing I will give Turbine is they are good at QA. Their alphas and beta clients ran better than most games that are out in retail form for months, or even years. That is no exaggeration.

I am not currently playing LOTRO or DDO any longer but my point is that the grass is always greener on the other side. While their titles have some shortcomings, it really isn't due to QA. They are pretty much the leaders in the industry in that area, as much as it pains me to admit it!

Originally posted by Hashbrick

 

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Originally posted by Jackdog

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Originally posted by solareus

 

 I support these changes, it puts minstrels where they need to be.

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 Sounds to me like a bit of class jealousy going on here. Thats ok,  after a gold in repairs and respecs and a complete revamp or two of my skill bar setup at lvl 50 I can now solo a pair of lvl 52's ( oranges) w/o dying. Can kill em pretty quick too. A single orange takes me about 20secs , a yellow about 10 - 15 secs.
Of course that still does not make it right. If it takes that much work to figure out how to solo that still means Turbine gets a D- on the class redesign. Can you say cookie cutter trait trees boys and girls. We will all look and play the same now, those that have the perseverance to figure it out that is. I guess in a way that is a good thing as I will have my pick of  groups. Most minnies will quit before going through the BS I did just to be able to play.

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Jackdog let me know what you changed because I just want my minnie's feeling back, this sucks and I'm not about to level my alts before my main just to get into new content. I love my minnie ; ;

Oh ya or start a new Moria class in the same bullshit I've been through 5-6 times how hard is it to make new damn low level content, god damnit Turbine stop thinking inside the box!

I will PM you my build this evening.

The big though is the class traits and how you set up your attack lines and he order in which you play the ballads and shouts. Virtues seem a matter of taste and mine are not all "that" just 5's and 6's. Racials are whatever yopu prefer.Another major factor is dropping War Speech if you are down to about 1/4 health. I don't think any good group minnie will have a problem with a bit of practice since we really have to keep our cool in big group encounters. The bad part is 2 out of three of our lines are pretty much worthless and those traits are very expensive to change out on a whim so what you will end up with is 90% of the minstrels set up in Warrior Skald. The end result is cookie cutter characters spamming the same 6 or 7 keys over and over.

However once you get the hang of how they want you to play it you can kick some serious tail. I was chain killing yellows and oranges and I think once I change a couple of virtues for better power and morale recovery and grind up those traits to solid 6's and 7's or get in the habit of using food I will perform even better.

Pre Moria I could vary my fights a bit as far as skills used and people could still be effective at soloing or group heal with various builds and traits slotted. So on that matter I don't think you will ever get the feel of the old Minnie back. This was a bad bad idea Turbine, shame on you.

I dont see why there is so much talk about this issue, turbine made a msitake by changing the minstrel to wat it was supposed to be: a healer. They realised that most mins wanted to be able to do something else than healing.

i understand why mins are pissed, you got nurfed a bit. But lets face it the class description doesnt talk at any point about runing around killing stuff.

Mins are still the class thats the most demanded, you can find a group for almost everything you try to do so lets not start hating turbine because they did what seemed natural.

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Originally posted by Jackdog

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Originally posted by Hashbrick

 

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Originally posted by Jackdog

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Originally posted by solareus
 
 I support these changes, it puts minstrels where they need to be.

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 Sounds to me like a bit of class jealousy going on here. Thats ok,  after a gold in repairs and respecs and a complete revamp or two of my skill bar setup at lvl 50 I can now solo a pair of lvl 52's ( oranges) w/o dying. Can kill em pretty quick too. A single orange takes me about 20secs , a yellow about 10 - 15 secs.
Of course that still does not make it right. If it takes that much work to figure out how to solo that still means Turbine gets a D- on the class redesign. Can you say cookie cutter trait trees boys and girls. We will all look and play the same now, those that have the perseverance to figure it out that is. I guess in a way that is a good thing as I will have my pick of  groups. Most minnies will quit before going through the BS I did just to be able to play.

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Jackdog let me know what you changed because I just want my minnie's feeling back, this sucks and I'm not about to level my alts before my main just to get into new content. I love my minnie ; ;
Oh ya or start a new Moria class in the same bullshit I've been through 5-6 times how hard is it to make new damn low level content, god damnit Turbine stop thinking inside the box!

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I will PM you my build this evening.
The big though is the class traits and how you set up your attack lines and he order in which you play the ballads and shouts. Virtues seem a matter of taste and mine are not all "that" just 5's and 6's. Racials are whatever yopu prefer.Another major factor is dropping War Speech if you are down to about 1/4 health. I don't think any good group minnie will have a problem with a bit of practice since we really have to keep our cool in big group encounters. The bad part is 2 out of three of our lines are pretty much worthless and those traits are very expensive to change out on a whim so what you will end up with is 90% of the minstrels set up in Warrior Skald. The end result is cookie cutter characters spamming the same 6 or 7 keys over and over.
However once you get the hang of how they want you to play it you can kick some serious tail. I was chain killing yellows and oranges and I think once I change a couple of virtues for better power and morale recovery and grind up those traits to solid 6's and 7's or get in the habit of using food I will perform even better.
Pre Moria I could vary my fights a bit as far as skills used and people could still be effective at soloing or group heal with various builds and traits slotted. So on that matter I don't think you will ever get the feel of the old Minnie back. This was a bad bad idea Turbine, shame on you.

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Alright thanks Jackdog. While I won't get the old feeling back hopefully it is enough to continue on, I haven't logged in 3 days because of this ill issue.

Eh, it is all in the eye of the beholder.

I like the expansion and would give it a solid B. Some things could be better but lots of things could be much-much worse.

The only real issue with MoM are graphic/ani,ation glitches but I hope those will be fixed soon.

Originally posted by Hashbrick

 

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Alright thanks Jackdog. While I won't get the old feeling back hopefully it is enough to continue on, I haven't logged in 3 days because of this ill issue.

I pm'ed you my kinmates build and I seriously  think you will be pleasantly surprised if you emulate it as best you can and set up the skills bar and use that battle sequence I sent you. The ballads buffing effects now actually work much better than before either that or I just never used them right. Pre Moria I used to rely on my shouts and Heralds strike to take down mobs. Now I might use one or two Heralds Strike in a fight against a white or below con and rarely use more than 2 piercing cries even when fighting a yellow or orange con.

It seems as if  the more I am playing the more the more I am starting to feel like we may even be better than before. It is just a matter of changing the way we use our skills. Try using that sequence I sent you for a day or two and try and buff up all the virtues as high as you can get them. I am now solid 6's and 7's on all my virtues ( patience, wisdom, empathy, loyalty and idealism) after adding one or two more points to each of them by doing simple exploration quests that I had never bothered with.

Another thing you might try is instead of  usiing Tale of Warding along with War Speech try Tale of Battle along with War Speech. The Vitality boost and wound resist helps more than the armor boost methinks. Last night I was messing atround in Forochel working a trait and a lvl 48 grimm could take me out  and I tried 3 times and either ran, died or played possum to escape each time. Tonight I went out to finish up the virtue andused War speech and Tale of battle and wiped out three of 4 of them and never dropped below 3/4 health at any time. Play that one by ear though and see what works best for you with different mobs.

Stil kinda pissed at Turbine for the two days of play and a gold and a half or more in repair bills I went trough because I had to relearn how to play the minnie though.

I just love this expnison and i dont have it yet. Ive been waiting for it in a shop so i can play it, i would like to have it right now but i cant  xD

Just wanted to level my 50 chars xD LOL

Still i think this game is well done, one of the bests, just dont try to get a little error from their part to stop the game being perfect    :)

Really if u compare it with other games u would have many complaints. This game doesnt lags, has a really cool story ( in wich the other MMOs dont) and is really cool to play. Idont know by our thinks but this game is perfect and i think it should deserve have as many players as WoW or even more.             

Originally posted by tfox2k1

Why are you doing book 15 and not working on entry into Moria?    You are what is wrong, not Tubine.   Stop whining and use your brain.     Come back to Book 15 later!

Moria is the best expansion I have ever experienced in any MMO.     Turbine has outdone themselves.

 

 

agreed!

Look LOTRO is STILL one of the smoothest MMOs todate. They had alot of problems logging in due to al lthe ppl trying to log in and remake or test the new expantion..i mean come on its to be expected . As for the Trolls o nthe game ignore them..we do have an ignore command for a reason. And last but not least, i see ALOT of ppl talking in ooc ,advice,and general so dont say that ppl only talk in kinship chat >>