Pvp base games tend to make me sad as it means I have to pick up a stick and hit someone to get anywhere. I'm kinda the old SWG kinda guy who likes to chillin in a guild hall with mates and craft shyt. As lame as it may sound, any chance this game provides the pre-efup SWG exp (player house/city, vendors, player driven economy, mines,you know, all the stuff you don't see in popular mmos atm) with new and interesting features?

Theres not really careers but yes u can just do crafting if u want, and there is player cities and houses i think, and i think u can buy a store and populate it with npcs that sell the stuff u make or find or mine.

its skillbased so all u need to do is get the skill nad then lvl up the skill which u do by using said skill, like in oblivion.

Definitely.

Im right there with ya on the SWG thing.  For the first time in any game i was a pure crafter and was an architect/politician and planned and built a huge city back in the glory days of SWG after the city patch hit.

Darkfall won't have the indepth crafting system that SWG had, though that is tough to really accomplish.  But this is going to be a great game for crafters in terms of economy.  With a full loot game, that also has decay on items, there will be a constant need for crafters.  Especially since crafter can craft pretty much everything in the game.

Now the full loot ffa pvp aspect is going to most likely make you have to find yourself a good clan to protect you, but it may be possible to remain in a city, but we dont really know the mechanics yet to know exactly how safe in a city you may be.  In EVE you could stay in high sec areas and be "safe" but there was always a risk someone could suicide you.

Initial reports from beta testers mention how the actual crafting system is not as in depth as they would have liked...but remember they arent at the higher levels yet.  But the main awsomeness for crafters will be the economy and how much the game demands crafters.

you can craft, harvest resources, farm (ie harvesters), build cities, build houses, create nations, create communities, kill epic monsters, kill epic players.

We don't really know how much of a 'non-combat' character you can specialise in without crippling your advancement ingame. For instance, you might need to be good at fighting to collect a certain resource from mobs - it's not essential, you could buy the resource from other players, but you're putting yourself at a disadvantage by doing so.

Aventurine say you can be a 100% non-combat character (for what that's worth) - which is technically true, you're not forced to fight anything to 'level up' your lumberjackery skill (apart from trees, obviously). It's just a matter of how viable it is.

Originally posted by NeroScuro

We don't really know how much of a 'non-combat' character you can specialise in without crippling your advancement ingame. For instance, you might need to be good at fighting to collect a certain resource from mobs - it's not essential, you could buy the resource from other players, but you're putting yourself at a disadvantage by doing so.

Aventurine say you can be a 100% non-combat character (for what that's worth) - which is technically true, you're not forced to fight anything to 'level up' your lumberjackery skill (apart from trees, obviously). It's just a matter of how viable it is.

The best thing about this game is you can do anything you really want.  If you make a crafter and you become skilled players will be flocking to your door for your services.  If anybody attacked you, you most likely will be able to bribe an army of players to seige him in exchange for your master crafted items.  I truely believe that you will not be crippling yourself at all but, approaching the game at a unique angle with a unique goal that only in Darkfall can really be realized.  You can become the leader of a kingdom with pawns to do your fighting for you without you, ever having to draw your sword once.  Theoretically that is.

Originally posted by xsarkaix

Originally posted by NeroScuro

We don't really know how much of a 'non-combat' character you can specialise in without crippling your advancement ingame. For instance, you might need to be good at fighting to collect a certain resource from mobs - it's not essential, you could buy the resource from other players, but you're putting yourself at a disadvantage by doing so.

Aventurine say you can be a 100% non-combat character (for what that's worth) - which is technically true, you're not forced to fight anything to 'level up' your lumberjackery skill (apart from trees, obviously). It's just a matter of how viable it is.

 

The best thing about this game is you can do anything you really want.  If you make a crafter and you become skilled players will be flocking to your door for your services.  If anybody attacked you, you most likely will be able to bribe an army of players to seige him in exchange for your master crafted items.  I truely believe that you will not be crippling yourself at all but, approaching the game at a unique angle with a unique goal that only in Darkfall can really be realized.  You can become the leader of a kingdom with pawns to do your fighting for you without you, ever having to draw your sword once.  Theoretically that is.

Prior MMOs have shown this idealistic view to be flawed. It'd be nice if there were a crafter who could rely on innovation and inventiveness to become successful and have what you describe. But it's never happened - not in UO, not in SWG, not in EVE.

The fact of the matter is, in an artificial crafting system, sheer weight of numbers matters more in the long run. The players who can churn out an endless supply of a set item, grind their skill to maximum then churn out yet more of a set item until wallet = full, will be the crafter players flock to (because his goods will be cheapest).

Not the player who is experimenting by nailing squirrels to claymores or whatever.

In a crafting system that allows great customibility (such as Second Life) inventiveness is favoured. Nothing has been indicated which makes me believe Darkfall will have a better crafting system than SWG, nevermind Second Life. It'll probably be worse.

I'm keeping fingers crossed that crafting/professions will be a big part of this game, but I'm really not getting my hopes up. Especially after hearing the Beta comments about the crafting.

I want something more than just chopping my way through hordes of enemies FPS style. I want to be able to focus on something completely non-combat orientated for once and for it to be actually engrossing and worthwhile.

Originally posted by NeroScuro

Originally posted by xsarkaix

Originally posted by NeroScuro

We don't really know how much of a 'non-combat' character you can specialise in without crippling your advancement ingame. For instance, you might need to be good at fighting to collect a certain resource from mobs - it's not essential, you could buy the resource from other players, but you're putting yourself at a disadvantage by doing so.

Aventurine say you can be a 100% non-combat character (for what that's worth) - which is technically true, you're not forced to fight anything to 'level up' your lumberjackery skill (apart from trees, obviously). It's just a matter of how viable it is.

 

The best thing about this game is you can do anything you really want.  If you make a crafter and you become skilled players will be flocking to your door for your services.  If anybody attacked you, you most likely will be able to bribe an army of players to seige him in exchange for your master crafted items.  I truely believe that you will not be crippling yourself at all but, approaching the game at a unique angle with a unique goal that only in Darkfall can really be realized.  You can become the leader of a kingdom with pawns to do your fighting for you without you, ever having to draw your sword once.  Theoretically that is.

 

Prior MMOs have shown this idealistic view to be flawed. It'd be nice if there were a crafter who could rely on innovation and inventiveness to become successful and have what you describe. But it's never happened - not in UO, not in SWG, not in EVE.

The fact of the matter is, in an artificial crafting system, sheer weight of numbers matters more in the long run. The players who can churn out an endless supply of a set item, grind their skill to maximum then churn out yet more of a set item until wallet = full, will be the crafter players flock to (because his goods will be cheapest).

Not the player who is experimenting by nailing squirrels to claymores or whatever.

In a crafting system that allows great customibility (such as Second Life) inventiveness is favoured. Nothing has been indicated which makes me believe Darkfall will have a better crafting system than SWG, nevermind Second Life. It'll probably be worse.

I agree with you 100%.  Darkfall to me is supposed to be the game where my idealistic view can be realized.  My ideal is a game where a  crafter can make hundreds of cheap iron swords for the masses, the army, the petty infantry, the thieves, and the smugglers.But, also craft a beautiful sword for the castles lordship to wield in battle as he leads his army against the crafters enemies.  According to the devs almost every item in the game can be crafted and I'm sure it ranges from useful crap items to exotic legendary items.  Your right though the game won't have unique customibility but, I hope it will still stand apart from WAR's after thought crap crafting system and WOW's grind fest.  I hope you actually have to focus on it to be skilled rather then it be something a warrior does on the side as he fights battles.  Basically I want dedicated crafters in this game much like SWG, where not everyone is gonna be one.

You can craft 'almost' every item in EVE (to take a recent example), including some which have very complex build procedures (T2 items). That doesn't stop them from being churned out.

Sorry if I'm being a bit confrontational, but it's better you go into the game realistic rather than idealistic. I'd love for there to be some very rare components that can only collected after great searching and epic battles and the like, but I just doubt it'll happen because such components will quickly become camped.

Also remember - no matter how brilliantly a game implements a feature, it can never be as good as you imagined it in your head.

Although thanks to dynamic spawning, what you suggest might make it in. Dragons, for example, will probably not respawn in the same location after being killed. So if resources can be harvested from dragons, that ensures those resources will be twofold rare because dragons are hard to kill (duh) and they can't be camped, because when they die they respawn somewhere else in the world.

Originally posted by NeroScuro

You can craft 'almost' every item in EVE (to take a recent example), including some which have very complex build procedures (T2 items). That doesn't stop them from being churned out.

Sorry if I'm being a bit confrontational, but it's better you go into the game realistic rather than idealistic. I'd love for there to be some very rare components that can only collected after great searching and epic battles and the like, but I just doubt it'll happen because such components will quickly become camped.

Also remember - no matter how brilliantly a game implements a feature, it can never be as good as you imagined it in your head.

Although thanks to dynamic spawning, what you suggest might make it in. Dragons, for example, will probably not respawn in the same location after being killed. So if resources can be harvested from dragons, that ensures those resources will be twofold rare because dragons are hard to kill (duh) and they can't be camped, because when they die they respawn somewhere else in the world.

I definitely see where you are comming from.  Although since we havent seen the high level of crafting yet, im still wondering what it is going to be like.  I think the fact that gear isnt as important in DF as it is extremely important and almost deciedes how well you do in games like WAR and WoW will play a big part.