WAR character customization sucks. you forgot to mention that :)

The WoW talent trees are way better than the 3 tree linear Warhammer system

WoW will have more new content

WAR can have "new content" as much as that's even possible for PvP (very little) and any new PvE will be a joke and a waste of the devs time

WoW: over 11 million subscribers

WAR: under 1 million subscribers

and about 50% of the people that left WoW for WAR are back, myself being one of them. WAR is an overhyped piece of crap MMO

Originally posted by Ghist

Reasons why Warcraft is the better game.

Log in screen.: You only have to escape out of the movie at log in once.

EUla: You only have to agree with EULA when a new patch is out.

Program: Warhammer takes over a gig of memory to run what is essentialy the same amount of graphics.

Interface: Warcraft has the more adaptable interface.

Chat Interface. Warcraft has the more adaptable and usable chat features.

Mail system. Warhammer can only send one thing at a time and the mail server is laggy.

Lag: I experience lag effects at three times the amount I ever had in WoW.

Combat System. Warhammer buttons are all on the same cool down which feels like you are hitting rubberbands. Spells and abilities have a noticable delay in proccing.

Class differienciation. Warcraft classes are totally different from each other. Where a Magus,Engineer, Squig Hunter, Shadow Hunter play about the same.

Emotes: Emotes are next to un-noticable in Warhammer.

Emmersion: With the different emotes for not only different races but classes and sexes, Warcraft tends to let the player more identify with his alt.

Instances: This is the dirty little secret of Warhammer. There are tons of different instanced areas on Warhammer.

Dungeons: While it is a known RVR/PVP game, Warhammer offers a couple of instances which are nothing but a string of PQs. The whole PVE experience is a total dissapointment.

PVP: Warcraft offers 2,3,5 man Arena fights. 10,15 and 40 man Battlegrounds. None of these have timers on them so you have to win not just get ahead and turtle. Then it offers several PVP World objectives
and soon with WotLK, it will offer instanced seiging. Most people will tell you that because of server imbalances most RVR doesn't happen in Warhammer.

Reliability: Simply put Blizzard has a lot longer to work out the bugs(and personally I think they have the better talent to do it too)

Communications: Blizzard hosts it own servers with player and dev tech assistance. The also give a better idea where they are heading with their patches.

 

And finally heart. After playing Warhammer for 2 months, I can tell you it just leaves you feeling there is something missing. I cannot imagine that I would play this game for 3 years like I did WoW.

Log in screen: It's nice to be able to skip it by clicking once, but who cares really?

EULA: Having to do it every time gives Mythic more freedom in what they can do to hackers/botters/abusers/gold spammers. This results in a better overall gaming experience at the cost of two clicks, so easy win for Mythic here.

Program: WoW's graphics are utter shit and the game is really showing its age by now, while WAR looks great with high-res textures and large polygon counts. There's still some performance issues with WAR, though these will be weeded out in time. It's a case of WAR, while still in its early stages of the game, isn't perfect, but still a lot better than WoW.

Chat Interface: You can do the same with WAR's chats as with WoW's. WoW's chat configuration UI is more nicely done since WotLK, though.

Mail system: WoW has the better mail system. The mail system is a very minor part of the game though so it's a minor inconvenience at worst.

Lag: Haven't had any lag in WAR, so they seem to be similar at the moment, at least for me. WoW had atrocious lagging for many months after launch though, but it's great now.

Combat System: WoW's melee combat system is a disjointed mess where the animations aren't properly connected with actual hits Both for melee and casting there's a big lack of variety in animations, as nearly all attacks use the same few generic animations. WAR isn't perfect either and is suffering from a lack of client-side checks on whether you can use an ability or not, which results in animations playing when you try to use an ability you can't, making it look like you're using it. This is something they'll need to improve. I like WAR's combat better still, however, as it has a more connected feel, and you're constantly active rather than standing there waiting for an opportunity to use an ability. Spellcasting is pretty similar, though feels more responsive in WoW.

Class differentiation: Most of WoW's casting classes have the exact same mechanic, leaving little room for variety. WAR has more than double the amount of classes and the mechanics between the various careers vary a lot more. WoW isn't anywhere near the same league as WAR in this category, but wins a couple of laughs for showing up.

Emotes: Emotes are as easy to see in WAR as they are in WoW.

Instances: There's a few instanced areas, but unless you count battlegorunds, it's used a lot less than in WoW, where every dungeon is instanced.

Dungeons: WAR's instances are much more than a string of PQs. In addition, PQs are much better than a string of trash mobs. There's not the same amount of dungeon content as in WoW, though. A dungeon like Mount Gunbad is a breath of fresh air compared to the borefest that is your typical WoW instance.

PvP: WoW an extremely low amount of PvP content and is moving it out of the MMO genre by forcing everyone into small-scale arena combat. There is only a single zone for any kind of world PvP. WAR has a couple of scenarios that need to be addressed due to turtling making them boring. WoW on the other hand has the opposite problem with eternity matches in Warsong Gulch for example, which is far worse - in WAR at least the game ends after 15 minutes at most. For PvP, WoW is so pathetic in comparion to WAR that it's hilarious the comparison is even being made in the first place.

Reliability: WoW has a more polished and reliable game by now due to having had 4 years to polish it. Win for WoW, although WAR gets an honorable mention for its state and improval rate giving it only released recently.

Communications: Mythic is awesome at communication to the players in which direction they're taking the game, and are good at making appearances at fan sites to address issues and help people out. Blizzard has gotten better over the years, but they've still got a lot to learn.

Heart: WoW is a confused mess where the developers can't even figure out whether they should take their own world seriously or turn it into a prank. The ambivalence of the development team shines through on every level, be it lore, PvE or PvP. It's as if they lack a common goal and are divided on where the game should be taken, and it really shows. This is what WAR got right, and why I think the game itself feels more serious and a lot less hollow than WoW.

Sadly 4 year old game is still better in all aspects of gameplay than the latest MMOs.  Thats worrying.  NPC AI in latest MMOs is just very bad atm when it should be heading the other way.  

Now - with this said... WOTLK is not a great addition to the MMO genre.  Its the same old but even more nubed down.  Game is trying to balance two diffrent gamestyles on diffrent lvls of players playing.  That is allways gonna be a failure cause both sides will suffer for it. 

And regarding PVP...  There will always be loosers in PVP... PPL DONT PAY for beeing loosers.  And 50% of loosers = 50 % less subs.... 

So.... games like AOC and WAR can never become big games cause 50% of players will always be loosers and will not pay for it.

What makes WOW such a hit ?   Simple answer really - PVE where all can be winners.   BUt... there is a limit to how nubed down game can be without ppl reaslising that even the biggest loosers are still progressing...

But there is alot more that makes WOW so much better compared to for example LOTRO.  If PVE is the way to go... why isn't LOTRO not best game ever ?  Thats simple - Limited UI - Not traditional magic style - Bad animations - loading screens.  All these factors are simply bad in LOTRO so thats why it can not be such a hit as WOW.

Originally posted by eq2js

 WAR character customization sucks. you forgot to mention that :)

The WoW talent trees are way better than the 3 tree linear Warhammer system

WoW will have more new content

WAR can have "new content" as much as that's even possible for PvP (very little) and any new PvE will be a joke and a waste of the devs time

WoW: over 11 million subscribers

WAR: under 1 million subscribers

and about 50% of the people that left WoW for WAR are back, myself being one of them. WAR is an overhyped piece of crap MMO

Are you serious? You are saying WAR's customization sucks, but you play WoW. To my knowledge (Haven't bothered with WotLK, quit after it was announced) but the choices for WoW faces, beards etc are limited to a small amount as well. BTW the human in WoW is by far the dumber looking then any WAR character. Gnome knights? Makes real sense. Please when you try saying a game has crap for customization, make sure the game your praising actually has some.

WoW tree's. Really. Thats funny cause when I played (before the x-pac) there were cdertain builds for a class, or you were a noob. Which makes it pretty linear imo. Once again, if your gonna rant on a game for something make sure yours excels at it.

PVE is a joke, this makes no sense. How does killing X mob go here go there in 1 game suck, but its the same in yours. AND, if you actually read quest dialogue and your ToK then you would see a world opening before your eyes. Its deep and interesting if you actually cared (But seeing how you played WoW your probably one who skipped the text to accept the rushed up to lvl - if you even played) PVE content is tank and spank just like WoW.

11 Mil subs. Good number and congrats to Bliz. But when a company has as many diehard fans as WoW and the norm fans over 4 years, yeah of course they will have more. WAR is a great game, has nice features and will be a success.

Your post was useless, it really was. All your "points" can be bounced back onto WoW (i.e custom and PVE) so yeah, you shot yourself in the foot on this one.

Better Luck next time.

P.S how did this not get locked yet lol

 WoW is easily has one of the least character customization. WAR isn't exactly super in this department, but still a lot better than WoW, not that this is difficult to achieve. Check out City of Heroes / Villains for some serious customization options, though.

Originally posted by SignusM

Originally posted by Ghist

Reasons why Warcraft is the better game.

Log in screen.: You only have to escape out of the movie at log in once.

EUla: You only have to agree with EULA when a new patch is out.

Program: Warhammer takes over a gig of memory to run what is essentialy the same amount of graphics.

Interface: Warcraft has the more adaptable interface.

Chat Interface. Warcraft has the more adaptable and usable chat features.

Mail system. Warhammer can only send one thing at a time and the mail server is laggy.

Lag: I experience lag effects at three times the amount I ever had in WoW.

Combat System. Warhammer buttons are all on the same cool down which feels like you are hitting rubberbands. Spells and abilities have a noticable delay in proccing.

Class differienciation. Warcraft classes are totally different from each other. Where a Magus,Engineer, Squig Hunter, Shadow Hunter play about the same.

Emotes: Emotes are next to un-noticable in Warhammer.

Emmersion: With the different emotes for not only different races but classes and sexes, Warcraft tends to let the player more identify with his alt.

Instances: This is the dirty little secret of Warhammer. There are tons of different instanced areas on Warhammer.

Dungeons: While it is a known RVR/PVP game, Warhammer offers a couple of instances which are nothing but a string of PQs. The whole PVE experience is a total dissapointment.

PVP: Warcraft offers 2,3,5 man Arena fights. 10,15 and 40 man Battlegrounds. None of these have timers on them so you have to win not just get ahead and turtle. Then it offers several PVP World objectives
and soon with WotLK, it will offer instanced seiging. Most people will tell you that because of server imbalances most RVR doesn't happen in Warhammer.

Reliability: Simply put Blizzard has a lot longer to work out the bugs(and personally I think they have the better talent to do it too)

Communications: Blizzard hosts it own servers with player and dev tech assistance. The also give a better idea where they are heading with their patches.

 

And finally heart. After playing Warhammer for 2 months, I can tell you it just leaves you feeling there is something missing. I cannot imagine that I would play this game for 3 years like I did WoW.

I don't like WAR or WoW, but even I can say this is quite possibly the dumbest post I've ever seen. Especially spelling immersion wrong, and the PvP part.

 

WoW is a PvE game. Its PvP is a tacked on failure of an afterthought, and WAR beats it day and night with RvR, the most fun and successful RvR system, originated in DAoC by Mytthic and applied to WAR. 

Except it's not DAoC RvR, is an adaptation of DAoC's RvR that's been extremely dumbed down.

Originally posted by Ixnatifual

 WoW is easily has one of the least character customization. WAR isn't exactly super in this department, but still a lot better than WoW, not that this is difficult to achieve. Check out City of Heroes / Villains for some serious customization options, though.

Yeah, because in WAR there's even less armor variety then in WoW, which is just sad.

Incorrect. Each career has tailor-made armour sets, whereas WoW uses the same generic pool of armour design for multiple classes. This is also why each career in WAR always looks strongly themed while WoW classes always look like the result of a freak explosion at the local clown outfit factory. Until end-game where everyone starts looking the same. Granted the the WotLK leveling armour looks a lot less shit than in TBC/vanilla WoW, but it remains drawn from the same generic pool. At end-game, WAR's variety for each career becomes quite good as there's multiple armour sets to obtain. When you think about it it makes you wonder why WoW has so little gear variety given so much of the generic gear pool is recycled across multiple classes.

This is also the reason WoW's armour textures look so horrible on non-human body types, as it's the same armour getting horribly stretched over textures that don't match up to the base model, and also accounts for the atrocious clipping issues. The low-res nature of the armour textures in general only serves to magnify the stretching problem, unfortunately.

They are going the WAR-route with the Diablo 3 armour designs, though, so possibly they've learned from their mistakes, though they did do similar for Diablo 2, so it could simply be a case of different art departments for WoW vs Diablo.

So yeah, at first you might get the impression that there's less variety, but when you put things into perspective you can see there's a actually a lot more, and it's a lot less shitty. Add armour dyes to it and there's not even a contest.

Unless of course you're actually playing the class "Clown".

Originally posted by Ixnatifual

Incorrect. Each career has tailor-made armour sets, whereas WoW uses the same generic pool of armour design for multiple classes. This is also why each career in WAR always looks strongly themed while WoW classes always look like the result of a freak explosion at the local clown outfit factory. Until end-game where everyone starts looking the same. Granted the the WotLK leveling armour looks a lot less shit than in TBC/vanilla WoW, but it remains drawn from the same generic pool. At end-game, WAR's variety for each career becomes quite good as there's multiple armour sets to obtain. When you think about it it makes you wonder why WoW has so little gear variety given so much of the generic gear pool is recycled across multiple classes.

This is also the reason WoW's armour textures look so horrible on non-human body types, as it's the same armour getting horribly stretched over textures that don't match up to the base model, and also accounts for the atrocious clipping issues.

The red text above is exactly what I mean. In each tier, players get new armor sets with slightly upgraded graphics than the previous tier, but ALL armor in your tier looks basically the same. Armor dye provides at least something to set you apart from other players playing the same class, but it's not enough.

Healing.  Healing in WAR is just years ahead of healing in WoW.  I recently went back to WoW after playing my archmage on WAR.  PvP healing is a joke, if you play carefully you'll end up OOM pretty quick because you aren't dying.  if you don't play carefully you won't use any mana because you'll be stunlocked/silenced/feared from 100-0.

the exception to this is of course the pally, but even they can only avoid being useless every few min with their cooldowns.  walk out of your base in WSG and the entire other team will see that you are a healer, and ignore everything else to kill you.  the only way to avoid focus fire from half the enemy team is with a bubble (and hope they don't have a shadow priests there waiting with mass dispell)

Healing in PvP in WAR is wonderful.  there is no "OOM" so you never become useless, you just have to take it easy for a few seconds.  nothing worse than being stuck in combat with no mana as a healer and just... wanding, or trying to shift to catform in resto gear.

Healing is decently powerful in WAR, and while running headfirst into the fight WILL get you killed similar to how you get killed in WOW, being careful will reward you with big healing numbers at the end of the day.

I'm going to play Wrath, I'm enjoying it right now.  But I'm never going to give up WAR because deep down I'm a HEALER, and in WAR I never feel useless.

Lock, Pally, Priest, Druid, Warlock.

Archmage.

Originally posted by hauj0bb

The red text above is exactly what I mean. In each tier, players get new armor sets with slightly upgraded graphics than the previous tier, but ALL armor in your tier looks basically the same. Armor dye provides at least something to set you apart from other players playing the same class, but it's not enough.

You are right, but some of us like that.  I always look like an archmage on my archmage.  my armor changes here and there, but I look like my class.

In WoW, everyone looks terribly crazy untill level cap, at which point everyone gets wellfare epics and looks exactly the same.  every warrior looks like a robot, every lock looks like a crazy horned person, every priest looks pretty darn good, but they all look the same, because EVERYONE gets the same gear in WoW at endgame.

inspect people who are right at 70, they are in full PvP epics (a few raiders around there in PVE epics) slowly replacing them with wrath greens/blues.  once they hit 80 they'll be back in welfare epics and they'll all look the same again.

Every deathknight looks the same, exactly, and most tend to hold on to their starting armor till near 70... exactly the same.

So while my archmage will always look like an archmage, and a lot like every other archmage.  my priest has always looked like a priest, and looks exactly like every other priest whenever we sit at level cap for awhile.

Originally posted by hauj0bb

Except it's not DAoC RvR, is an adaptation of DAoC's RvR that's been extremely dumbed down.

Nailed it in one. Even class balance changes put back just show it's all a mess. Isn't Europe down to like 100k players now I read somewhere?

WoW is good, WAR can be better they are not there yet, I hope they do get there but from my experience being EA didn't help at all.

Originally posted by Shooshoo

Originally posted by Pepsipwnzgod

Originally posted by Gregtheexcon

Originally posted by Ghist

Reasons why Warcraft is the better game.

Log in screen.: You only have to escape out of the movie at log in once.

EUla: You only have to agree with EULA when a new patch is out.

Program: Warhammer takes over a gig of memory to run what is essentialy the same amount of graphics.

Interface: Warcraft has the more adaptable interface.

Chat Interface. Warcraft has the more adaptable and usable chat features.

Mail system. Warhammer can only send one thing at a time and the mail server is laggy.

Lag: I experience lag effects at three times the amount I ever had in WoW.

Combat System. Warhammer buttons are all on the same cool down which feels like you are hitting rubberbands. Spells and abilities have a noticable delay in proccing.

Class differienciation. Warcraft classes are totally different from each other. Where a Magus,Engineer, Squig Hunter, Shadow Hunter play about the same.

Emotes: Emotes are next to un-noticable in Warhammer.

Emmersion: With the different emotes for not only different races but classes and sexes, Warcraft tends to let the player more identify with his alt.

Instances: This is the dirty little secret of Warhammer. There are tons of different instanced areas on Warhammer.

Dungeons: While it is a known RVR/PVP game, Warhammer offers a couple of instances which are nothing but a string of PQs. The whole PVE experience is a total dissapointment.

PVP: Warcraft offers 2,3,5 man Arena fights. 10,15 and 40 man Battlegrounds. None of these have timers on them so you have to win not just get ahead and turtle. Then it offers several PVP World objectives
and soon with WotLK, it will offer instanced seiging. Most people will tell you that because of server imbalances most RVR doesn't happen in Warhammer.

Reliability: Simply put Blizzard has a lot longer to work out the bugs(and personally I think they have the better talent to do it too)

Communications: Blizzard hosts it own servers with player and dev tech assistance. The also give a better idea where they are heading with their patches.

 

And finally heart. After playing Warhammer for 2 months, I can tell you it just leaves you feeling there is something missing. I cannot imagine that I would play this game for 3 years like I did WoW.

Really, so can you go back to Warcraft forum. 

Heres how it is. 

PVE - Warahmmer pve is the same aqs everyone elses. Kill X amount of w/e, go here go there, find this. Thats it, always. You think it sucks? WoW quests are the same.

PVP - arena? Are you kidding me arena is run by druids, thank you come back later.

Communication- Yeah cause chuck norris is so appealing to hear of everyday, WAR players use Vent in most cases. (Kiddies arn't allowed on vent. so thats why barrens chat is the way it is and warhammer isn't

Realiability - A joke right? these guys are constantly throwing pacthes, minor patches to fix hings. Everyday theres at least a tiny pacth, unreliable. What a joke

Emotes - the dumbest thing ever in a MAN's game. You know, man's game with KILLING not HUGS!

Lag - upgrade ur rig, seriously

Emersion, yeah cause gnome knights make huge sense

The intro movie is good for WAR

You know what forget it, just another person who claims WoW is so great but isn't playing it but using the forum (I'm at work) so c yah around

 

WoW quests actually have a story behind it, even the level 10 quests near sentinel hill will emerse you moreso then any war quest,

Arenas are controlled by druids in maybe 1500-1700 when it's all a game of who runs out of mana first, try being good at pvp before you judge it

Even a good rig cant get past an area having more then 30 people in it in War, the lag is rediculous, and a man's game.. seriously?

 

a MAN's game....... THAT's a joke...

and the movie thing is stupid.. i dont mind pressing esc to get past it.. and yea i have played war, and yea it was fun at first up till about 25 then it's just a grind, the same grind, at least wow is a grind with dif things to grind for dif rewards

 

Dude... Did you acctually even realised that WAR quests ALL of them make part of a story? That's why they call it chapters, in the time you advance more in the game, you will unlock more stories... Wow in the past few years has became more lame, the lore is destroyed, Play War3 And play WOW, see any diferences? I Saw, MANY! that's why i left...

what wow did to the WC storyline and lore was horrible.  Really ruined the whole franchise for me.  Paladins to the horde ???  DK's on the alliance ???  Sad stuff.
 

To be honest, this guy has a point in regards to Warcraft being a better game than Warhammer. First off after being in the Warhammer beta from the start and jumping on my brother's account to do RvR and sieges (I haven't activated my account due to BG not being in).

War is not as polished as Warcraft's due to it having time, pulling in a easy audience (let's face it WOW is not a complicated game) and ended up being the right formula that Blizzard needed.

Another thing that makes Blizzard and Warcraft very flexible and a lot of you forget this on this forum, Blizzard doe not have to ask anybody if they can put in or take out classes or races because it's their license (unlike Warhammer to EA).

I agree with his post not because the game sucks balls in general as so many posters on different forums have thrown around but because they haven't gotten the ingredients correct yet (Blizzard has had over 4 years to refine their formula).

Quite frankly again, the game should have held off on release for another 3-5 months (releases nowadays is everything to people).

PvP in Wow: fluid control and smooth animations with a tight balanced system. Hardest MMORPG ever to get the best PvP gear because of a rated ladder system ensuring only the very best top PvP players can get it. Best players out of 180.000(!) players from 1 Battlegroup says it all.

PvP in War: a little bit clunky, unresponsive and out of synch combat system. It makes you fight the system instead of the other player. Autofacing in a "skilled" PvP game ? Easy PvP because it is "group based". The system lets you hide between other players and support mediocre play. NO individual rating system at all.

Class design is Wow is superior, having 51 deep talent points and 61 talents setting. You make a druid or paladin this way and your ONE character can be a pure tank,a pure healer or a pure DPS class. Only thing to do is reset talent points. No need to have 3 seperate characters to level. DK'a are even more tank.dps/class and added another 3 option tree.

The 5 BG's in Wow are always accessible, bigger and far more varied than in War.

PVE the games can't possibly be compared because of the 4 years polishment of Wow.

Professions far more and better implemented in Wow.

Wow's 3D worlds you can freely fly over on personal mounts are much more open and fully designed.

Role Play: dozens of emotes which simply are not implemented in War. Can't even sit on a chair.

RvR is not present in Wow, but no one is interested in RvR because it just resets and is rather useless.

I play PvP for the fun and character progress in Wow, (as every video game player), so to me the choice is clear... and looking at the www.xfire.com graphics the majority agrees on this.

Originally posted by strategy

PvP in Wow: fluid control and smooth animations with a tight balanced system. Hardest MMORPG ever to get the best PvP gear because of a rated ladder system ensuring only the very best top PvP players can get it. Best players out of 180.000(!) players from 1 Battlegroup says it all.

PvP in War: a little bit clunky, unresponsive and out of synch combat system. It makes you fight the system instead of the other player. Autofacing in a "skilled" PvP game ? Easy PvP because it is "group based". The system lets you hide between other players and support mediocre play. NO individual rating system at all.

Class design is Wow is superior, having 51 deep talent points and 61 talents setting. You make a druid or paladin this way and your ONE character can be a pure tank,a pure healer or a pure DPS class. Only thing to do is reset talent points. No need to have 3 seperate characters to level. DK'a are even more tank.dps/class and added another 3 option tree.

The 5 BG's in Wow are always accessible, bigger and far more varied than in War.

PVE the games can't possibly be compared because of the 4 years polishment of Wow.

Professions far more and better implemented in Wow.

Wow's 3D worlds you can freely fly over on personal mounts are much more open and fully designed.

Role Play: dozens of emotes which simply are not implemented in War. Can't even sit on a chair.

RvR is not present in Wow, but no one is interested in RvR because it just resets and is rather useless.

I play PvP for the fun and character progress in Wow, (as every video game player), so to me the choice is clear... and looking at the www.xfire.com graphics the majority agrees on this.

if you asked if autofacing is skilled PvP, means you actually used it in WAR's PvP... which means you are very bad at PvP.  Anyone using autofacing in WAR will die... I see why you hate WAR so much... you suck in PvP and you cant compete in any other MMO than WoW.

Originally posted by strategy

PvP in Wow: fluid control and smooth animations with a tight balanced system. Hardest MMORPG ever to get the best PvP gear because of a rated ladder system ensuring only the very best top PvP players can get it. Best players out of 180.000(!) players from 1 Battlegroup says it all.

Yes it is fluid but it still sucks IMO, and the system is FAR from balanced. It's not so much hard than time consuming. Arena has very little skill associated to it. You may find skill if there are two teams who have the exact same classes with the exact same gear but other than that it comes down to gear and class composition of a team. A shaman/priest combo will 99% of the time lose to a resto druid/warrior combo if they are evenly geared. If they are not then the chances of the shaman priest combo to win is much better if they have the better gear. The pvp is WAY more grind than skill.

PvP in War: a little bit clunky, unresponsive and out of synch combat system. It makes you fight the system instead of the other player. Autofacing in a "skilled" PvP game ? Easy PvP because it is "group based". The system lets you hide between other players and support mediocre play. NO individual rating system at all.

PvP for me is a little cluncky but for the most part is very well done. Collision detection is a must in PvP games which WoW does not have. This is the problem with WoW and why the PvP will never be as good simply because most people are the "me, me, me" type. A good RvR game encourages team play. WoW does not encourage team play and is why it will NEVER be considered an RvR game.

Class design is Wow is superior, having 51 deep talent points and 61 talents setting. You make a druid or paladin this way and your ONE character can be a pure tank,a pure healer or a pure DPS class. Only thing to do is reset talent points. No need to have 3 seperate characters to level. DK'a are even more tank.dps/class and added another 3 option tree.

Except for the fact that one of the three trees in WoW for most classes is FAR more powerful than the other 2. Mage for instance. Ice is MUCH stronger than Fire or Arcane and that is WoW's fault and shows their sad state of "balance"

The 5 BG's in Wow are always accessible, bigger and far more varied than in War.

5 in 4 years is not something to brag about ...accesible, yes. Bigger and varied...no. Reikland is a good example of a varied scenario. 4 capture points and lots of places for Rdps to hide and attack from. Some of the scenarios in WAR aren't as good as others but it takes a while and they will prob improve them.

PVE the games can't possibly be compared because of the 4 years polishment of Wow.

This is true...but WoW is a pve game and WAR is more of a PVP game.

Professions far more and better implemented in Wow.

Far more I'll give you, but when the game first came out they were pointless and provided very little benefit...BC did a better job at making them more beneficial and WotLK made it better but it took almost 2-3 years to do it.

Wow's 3D worlds you can freely fly over on personal mounts are much more open and fully designed.

Only in outlands and northrend (and only in Northrend at 77+ for 1000g) You still can not do it in the original lands

Role Play: dozens of emotes which simply are not implemented in War. Can't even sit on a chair.

RP happens VERY infrequnelty and Blizz don't even police the RP servers like they should. Don't get me wrong...loved leaving darnassus just to see a rogue named "Iwtfpwnedu"

RvR is not present in Wow, but no one is interested in RvR because it just resets and is rather useless.

Maybe you aren't interested in RvR but others are.

I play PvP for the fun and character progress in Wow, (as every video game player), so to me the choice is clear... and looking at the www.xfire.com graphics the majority agrees on this.

PvP in wow can be fun at times...not fun to me to get 2 shotted by a mage but whatever. Also WoW does not have character progression in PvP, Gear progression yes, char progression no. And I don't use Xfire nor do a lot of the people i know so I take the Xfire graphics with a grain of salt. When they are considered by the complete gaming community as a realistic representation of subscription to an MMO then, and only then, will I acknowledge Xfire stats for anything. Until then that can be thrown around by anyone and I could care less.

Originally posted by eq2js

 WAR character customization sucks. you forgot to mention that :)

The WoW talent trees are way better than the 3 tree linear Warhammer system

WoW will have more new content

WAR can have "new content" as much as that's even possible for PvP (very little) and any new PvE will be a joke and a waste of the devs time

WoW: over 11 million subscribers

WAR: under 1 million subscribers

and about 50% of the people that left WoW for WAR are back, myself being one of them. WAR is an overhyped piece of crap MMO

WoW's Character customization isn't the greatest either.

Yeach cuase Blizz does such a great job to make sure all 3 talent trees of a class are balanced and that they are in good working order huh?

New PvP content is very possible. PvP public quests (witching hour), new lands with zones that provide benefits, new city sieging, etc.

I take subscriptions with a grain of salt.

about 50%? Was this acutal published information by a reliable source? I'm talking a news outlet or stated in a press release by WoW...not coming from a VP or dev from WoW but actual proof that this is true? Until then that is pretty much conjecture.

*i have only read the first few posts*

I think WAR sounds great on paper, ORvR and PQ's all sound great on paper, but once in the game its the players who decide if these things work.

I saw the failing on PQ's from day 1.. for PQ's to work you need players, if there are no players in the area there is no point for PQ. Thus lower teirs struggle to get any PQ working, I saw this in my first week of WAR.

ORVR, sounds great, but again if there are no players it means nothing. Take PQ and RvR away and you have a very mediocer game, so they need to get it right... which they have yet to do.

I think mythic should half the number of keeps, make it so there are 1 or 2 places\keeps in each zone where all oRvR happens that way theres always action to be had, even if 90% of players ae farming scenarios.  Also reduce the number PQ's to much time and resource being spent on a mechanic that fast become obsolete.  Do this I might sub to WAR.

Also why did mythic feel they had to rename everything,

Class = Careers
Levels = Ranks
Battlegrounds = Scenarios
Elite mobs = Heroes
 

Originally posted by coffee

*i have only read the first few posts*

I think WAR sounds great on paper, ORvR and PQ's all sound great on paper, but once in the game its the players who decide if these things work.

I saw the failing on PQ's from day 1.. for PQ's to work you need players, if there are no players in the area there is no point for PQ. Thus lower teirs struggle to get any PQ working, I saw this in my first week of WAR.

ORVR, sounds great, but again if there are no players it means nothing. Take PQ and RvR away and you have a very mediocer game, so they need to get it right... which they have yet to do.

I think mythic should half the number of keeps, make it so there are 1 or 2 places\keeps in each zone where all oRvR happens that way theres always action to be had, even if 90% of players ae farming scenarios.  Also reduce the number PQ's to much time and resource being spent on a mechanic that fast become obsolete.  Do this I might sub to WAR.

Also why did mythic feel they had to rename everything,

Class = Careers
Levels = Ranks
Battlegrounds = Scenarios
Elite mobs = Heroes
 

personally i think the rename was for immersion purposes. Careers instead of classes because they want you to feel like your in an army.  This is WAR and a rank 19 shadow warrior sounds more WAR like than a lv 19 shadow warrior. Scenarios i have no idea and Elite to Heroes because in WAR a powerful enemy or strong ally would be considered a hero in this kind of fantasy setting. Thats just my $0.02

I know you are talking about "world of warcraft" and not "warcraft", but try keeping them apart. ;P

Originally posted by Keeper2000

Originally posted by strategy

PvP in Wow: fluid control and smooth animations with a tight balanced system. Hardest MMORPG ever to get the best PvP gear because of a rated ladder system ensuring only the very best top PvP players can get it. Best players out of 180.000(!) players from 1 Battlegroup says it all.

PvP in War: a little bit clunky, unresponsive and out of synch combat system. It makes you fight the system instead of the other player. Autofacing in a "skilled" PvP game ? Easy PvP because it is "group based". The system lets you hide between other players and support mediocre play. NO individual rating system at all.

Class design is Wow is superior, having 51 deep talent points and 61 talents setting. You make a druid or paladin this way and your ONE character can be a pure tank,a pure healer or a pure DPS class. Only thing to do is reset talent points. No need to have 3 seperate characters to level. DK'a are even more tank.dps/class and added another 3 option tree.

The 5 BG's in Wow are always accessible, bigger and far more varied than in War.

PVE the games can't possibly be compared because of the 4 years polishment of Wow.

Professions far more and better implemented in Wow.

Wow's 3D worlds you can freely fly over on personal mounts are much more open and fully designed.

Role Play: dozens of emotes which simply are not implemented in War. Can't even sit on a chair.

RvR is not present in Wow, but no one is interested in RvR because it just resets and is rather useless.

I play PvP for the fun and character progress in Wow, (as every video game player), so to me the choice is clear... and looking at the www.xfire.com graphics the majority agrees on this.

if you asked if autofacing is skilled PvP, means you actually used it in WAR's PvP... which means you are very bad at PvP.  Anyone using autofacing in WAR will die... I see why you hate WAR so much... you suck in PvP and you cant compete in any other MMO than WoW.

 

you lack reading comprehension.

Originally posted by mediumplanet

Originally posted by Keeper2000

Originally posted by strategy

PvP in Wow: fluid control and smooth animations with a tight balanced system. Hardest MMORPG ever to get the best PvP gear because of a rated ladder system ensuring only the very best top PvP players can get it. Best players out of 180.000(!) players from 1 Battlegroup says it all.

PvP in War: a little bit clunky, unresponsive and out of synch combat system. It makes you fight the system instead of the other player. Autofacing in a "skilled" PvP game ? Easy PvP because it is "group based". The system lets you hide between other players and support mediocre play. NO individual rating system at all.

Class design is Wow is superior, having 51 deep talent points and 61 talents setting. You make a druid or paladin this way and your ONE character can be a pure tank,a pure healer or a pure DPS class. Only thing to do is reset talent points. No need to have 3 seperate characters to level. DK'a are even more tank.dps/class and added another 3 option tree.

The 5 BG's in Wow are always accessible, bigger and far more varied than in War.

PVE the games can't possibly be compared because of the 4 years polishment of Wow.

Professions far more and better implemented in Wow.

Wow's 3D worlds you can freely fly over on personal mounts are much more open and fully designed.

Role Play: dozens of emotes which simply are not implemented in War. Can't even sit on a chair.

RvR is not present in Wow, but no one is interested in RvR because it just resets and is rather useless.

I play PvP for the fun and character progress in Wow, (as every video game player), so to me the choice is clear... and looking at the www.xfire.com graphics the majority agrees on this.

if you asked if autofacing is skilled PvP, means you actually used it in WAR's PvP... which means you are very bad at PvP.  Anyone using autofacing in WAR will die... I see why you hate WAR so much... you suck in PvP and you cant compete in any other MMO than WoW.

 

you lack reading comprehension.

If you refer that I said "he asked if autofacing is asked PvP", I would say you are right.  I will explain that I am not good at english so the way I make phrases are usually wrong.  I did understand he was asking why they put autoface in a game that is suppose to be a PvP one that requires skills to play.  By saying that and the other things he said in his post, he is trying to implicity questioned the game.  He is actualyl saying the game does not require skills to win.  He even said that the fact the game requires groups to compete (which is not totally truth) allows players to hide how they suck in PvP.

But the truth is that as he questioned the existance of autoface in the game... as autoface was something usable... shows me has no clue of how to PvP and that he sucks at it.

You have all the right to think this is not truth and base your believes in my ability to comprehend.  But in the end, anyone useing autoface in WAR and/or DAoC is dead meat.  Adn anyone even considering it as something that lowers the skills required in the PvP of WAR only shows to me that he has no clue of what he is talking.

The reasons why they put it may be because its (maybe) useful in PvE and maybe to help the lazy players like him who doesnt want or doesnt understand they should move there toons instead of base their gameplay in autoface.  DAoC has /face... and even /stick... anyone using them are dead meat to any opponent that knows how to take positional... and in DAoC /face is much more faster than in WAR.

So, I will repeat it: imo, strategy sucks in PvP after I saw his question.

Rephrase things as you want, judge my ability to express and comprehend english as you want but I am sure he sucks in PvP jsut becuase he asked that real stupid question.

Originally posted by Keeper2000

Originally posted by mediumplanet

Originally posted by Keeper2000

Originally posted by strategy

PvP in Wow: fluid control and smooth animations with a tight balanced system. Hardest MMORPG ever to get the best PvP gear because of a rated ladder system ensuring only the very best top PvP players can get it. Best players out of 180.000(!) players from 1 Battlegroup says it all.

PvP in War: a little bit clunky, unresponsive and out of synch combat system. It makes you fight the system instead of the other player. Autofacing in a "skilled" PvP game ? Easy PvP because it is "group based". The system lets you hide between other players and support mediocre play. NO individual rating system at all.

Class design is Wow is superior, having 51 deep talent points and 61 talents setting. You make a druid or paladin this way and your ONE character can be a pure tank,a pure healer or a pure DPS class. Only thing to do is reset talent points. No need to have 3 seperate characters to level. DK'a are even more tank.dps/class and added another 3 option tree.

The 5 BG's in Wow are always accessible, bigger and far more varied than in War.

PVE the games can't possibly be compared because of the 4 years polishment of Wow.

Professions far more and better implemented in Wow.

Wow's 3D worlds you can freely fly over on personal mounts are much more open and fully designed.

Role Play: dozens of emotes which simply are not implemented in War. Can't even sit on a chair.

RvR is not present in Wow, but no one is interested in RvR because it just resets and is rather useless.

I play PvP for the fun and character progress in Wow, (as every video game player), so to me the choice is clear... and looking at the www.xfire.com graphics the majority agrees on this.

if you asked if autofacing is skilled PvP, means you actually used it in WAR's PvP... which means you are very bad at PvP.  Anyone using autofacing in WAR will die... I see why you hate WAR so much... you suck in PvP and you cant compete in any other MMO than WoW.

 

you lack reading comprehension.

If you refer that I said "he asked if autofacing is asked PvP", I would say you are right.  I will explain that I am not good at english so the way I make phrases are usually wrong.  I did understand he was asking why they put autoface in a game that is suppose to be a PvP one that requires skills to play.  By saying that and the other things he said in his post, he is trying to implicity questioned the game.  He is actualyl saying the game does not require skills to win.  He even said that the fact the game requires groups to compete (which is not totally truth) allows players to hide how they suck in PvP.

But the truth is that as he questioned the existance of autoface in the game... as autoface was something usable... shows me has no clue of how to PvP and that he sucks at it.

You have all the right to think this is not truth and base your believes in my ability to comprehend.  But in the end, anyone useing autoface in WAR and/or DAoC is dead meat.  Adn anyone even considering it as something that lowers the skills required in the PvP of WAR only shows to me that he has no clue of what he is talking.

The reasons why they put it may be because its (maybe) useful in PvE and maybe to help the lazy players like him who doesnt want or doesnt understand they should move there toons instead of base their gameplay in autoface.  DAoC has /face... and even /stick... anyone using them are dead meat to any opponent that knows how to take positional... and in DAoC /face is much more faster than in WAR.

So, I will repeat it: imo, strategy sucks in PvP after I saw his question.

Rephrase things as you want, judge my ability to express and comprehend english as you want but I am sure he sucks in PvP jsut becuase he asked that real stupid question.

 

I think you misunderstood.  he asked why do we have autoface on if this game supposably  requires skill in pvp.

Originally posted by mediumplanet

Originally posted by Keeper2000

Originally posted by mediumplanet

Originally posted by Keeper2000

Originally posted by strategy

PvP in Wow: fluid control and smooth animations with a tight balanced system. Hardest MMORPG ever to get the best PvP gear because of a rated ladder system ensuring only the very best top PvP players can get it. Best players out of 180.000(!) players from 1 Battlegroup says it all.

PvP in War: a little bit clunky, unresponsive and out of synch combat system. It makes you fight the system instead of the other player. Autofacing in a "skilled" PvP game ? Easy PvP because it is "group based". The system lets you hide between other players and support mediocre play. NO individual rating system at all.

Class design is Wow is superior, having 51 deep talent points and 61 talents setting. You make a druid or paladin this way and your ONE character can be a pure tank,a pure healer or a pure DPS class. Only thing to do is reset talent points. No need to have 3 seperate characters to level. DK'a are even more tank.dps/class and added another 3 option tree.

The 5 BG's in Wow are always accessible, bigger and far more varied than in War.

PVE the games can't possibly be compared because of the 4 years polishment of Wow.

Professions far more and better implemented in Wow.

Wow's 3D worlds you can freely fly over on personal mounts are much more open and fully designed.

Role Play: dozens of emotes which simply are not implemented in War. Can't even sit on a chair.

RvR is not present in Wow, but no one is interested in RvR because it just resets and is rather useless.

I play PvP for the fun and character progress in Wow, (as every video game player), so to me the choice is clear... and looking at the www.xfire.com graphics the majority agrees on this.

if you asked if autofacing is skilled PvP, means you actually used it in WAR's PvP... which means you are very bad at PvP.  Anyone using autofacing in WAR will die... I see why you hate WAR so much... you suck in PvP and you cant compete in any other MMO than WoW.

 

you lack reading comprehension.

If you refer that I said "he asked if autofacing is asked PvP", I would say you are right.  I will explain that I am not good at english so the way I make phrases are usually wrong.  I did understand he was asking why they put autoface in a game that is suppose to be a PvP one that requires skills to play.  By saying that and the other things he said in his post, he is trying to implicity questioned the game.  He is actualyl saying the game does not require skills to win.  He even said that the fact the game requires groups to compete (which is not totally truth) allows players to hide how they suck in PvP.

But the truth is that as he questioned the existance of autoface in the game... as autoface was something usable... shows me has no clue of how to PvP and that he sucks at it.

You have all the right to think this is not truth and base your believes in my ability to comprehend.  But in the end, anyone useing autoface in WAR and/or DAoC is dead meat.  Adn anyone even considering it as something that lowers the skills required in the PvP of WAR only shows to me that he has no clue of what he is talking.

The reasons why they put it may be because its (maybe) useful in PvE and maybe to help the lazy players like him who doesnt want or doesnt understand they should move there toons instead of base their gameplay in autoface.  DAoC has /face... and even /stick... anyone using them are dead meat to any opponent that knows how to take positional... and in DAoC /face is much more faster than in WAR.

So, I will repeat it: imo, strategy sucks in PvP after I saw his question.

Rephrase things as you want, judge my ability to express and comprehend english as you want but I am sure he sucks in PvP jsut becuase he asked that real stupid question.

 

 

I think you misunderstood.  he asked why do we have autoface on if this game supposably  requires skill in pvp.

I know my english suck but... you didnt read me in the reply to you, did you?

I even gave my theory on why autoface may be in the game.  Obviouly, I wasnt clear or you have a comprehension problem too.

I did point out that his question is stupid... plain stupid.  It can only be made by a troll or by someone that has no idea on how to pvp in war.  Any person relaying in autoface in WAR's PvP will be eaten and owned.  I am not sure how to be more clear than this.  Positional in this game is as important as in DAoC.

I could had point out too how stupid his remarks about bad pvp players "hiding" in groups but I guess now that will just trigger some person like you pointing that I didnt "understood" what he is saying.  There are already people that wont be accepted in some groups... if you suck at pvp, you will end up getting groups in pugs or with friends.  People do remember how and what you do.  So his remarks show some ignorance too.

Then others remarks like "no individual rating at all"... the Herald needs work and I think in time it will be even better than DAoC.  But, in the end, the best rating system is your enemy.  We already know some enemies by name... people make a name by killing.

But back to my main point... if he ask why there is autoface in a pvp game that supposely requires skills is making people that don't know the game to think autoface is important in pvp.  My point is that relaying in autofacing is stupid and will only end up with you dead.  Anyone asking the question he did is either trolling and/or showing he sucked so much in WAR's PvP that didnt even discover not to depend in autofacing.

My knowledge of english prevent me to be more clear on this.