Since we now have two threads locked on this topic, can we please try to keep this one civil?

Thread rules:

1. Only respond if you have a comment on any of the quotes given by the beta testers in the update.  It can be a negative view of Darkfall or a Positive one but keep it civil.
2. No posts about how this proves DF beta is real.
3. No posts about how this porves DF beta is a lol scam

Both Fans and Haters should realize that niether side is going to budge so making the same posts about your opinion on the legitamacy (sp?) of Darkfall will get us no where. 

Again please this thread is ONLY for the discussion of the quotes given in the update and what your opinion of them is in relation to the game.  Anything other than that will be reported.  Feel free to bash the hell out of the game, as long as it supported by one of the quotes given in the update.  Hopefully that is clear enough. 

Here is the update in question:  forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php

For those who arent extreme fans of the game and havent had the time to check it out yet, it is basically a copy/paste of a lot of beta tester opinions from the beta forums for Darkfall.  There are both negative and positive opinions in there, and it is a long read divided into different game mechanic topics.

Please remember to keep this one civil.  Letting the thread derail into flaming will only get it locked again. 

There is a lot of great info in this update from testers and it could actually develop into legit discussion if both Fans and Haters keep themselves calm.

Also, here is a link to the official forums in which a similar thread is going on.  forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php

"Group PvP is going to be neat. It's already dangerous going 3v1 because the '3' side will constantly hit eachother in melee or with spells accidentally. A skilled solo player can definitely pull off some cool stuff there.”

This is one of my favorite because one of the things i am looking forward to the most is bringing some kill and challenge back to the combat system in both pve and pvp.  There is another quote in there about someone using AOE to kill a single mob because he was strafing too fast for his range attack to handle.  This is the kind of stuff that will make you feel so much more pride after a successful kill than in other mmos in my opinion.

Originally posted by imbant

Since we now have two threads locked on this topic, can we please try to keep this one civil?

Thread rules:

1. Only respond if you have a comment on any of the quotes given by the beta testers in the update.  It can be a negative view of Darkfall or a Positive one but keep it civil.
2. No posts about how this proves DF beta is real.
3. No posts about how this porves DF beta is a lol scam

Both Fans and Haters should realize that niether side is going to budge so making the same posts about your opinion on the legitamacy (sp?) of Darkfall will get us no where. 

Again please this thread is ONLY for the discussion of the quotes given in the update and what your opinion of them is in relation to the game.  Anything other than that will be reported.  Feel free to bash the hell out of the game, as long as it supported by one of the quotes given in the update.  Hopefully that is clear enough. 

Here is the update in question:  forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php

For those who arent extreme fans of the game and havent had the time to check it out yet, it is basically a copy/paste of a lot of beta tester opinions from the beta forums for Darkfall.  There are both negative and positive opinions in there, and it is a long read divided into different game mechanic topics.

Please remember to keep this one civil.  Letting the thread derail into flaming will only get it locked again. 

There is a lot of great info in this update from testers and it could actually develop into legit discussion if both Fans and Haters keep themselves calm.

 

I don't think it was the civility of the thread that caused it to be locked.  It was the constant de-railment by a couple posters that kept on discussing another MMO in much more detail and temerity than they were of DarkFall... the supposed purpose of this forum. 

But yeah, civility never hurts either. 

I'll repost my original thought on the quotes here... we'll see how long your "rules" last.

I will go with the assumption that all the quotes that Tasos put out were by real CLOSED Beta-Testers. I'm not sure why he chose to post them in the manner that he did... but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that they represent actual testers.

A few things that caught my attention... and I'll use the same quotes so that there isn't any misunderstanding with paraphrasing them.  I'm not re-posting all of the quotes... just the ones that stood out to me.  My comments are in blue.

“I've followed the game for a while, and I'm glad to say it was not in vain. It's not vaporware or anything like that. It really stands out as a quality game, and even after just a few hours, the addiction is already starting to get me.”

I found that high-lighted portion above to be an odd statement for a Beta-tester to make in a Beta forum for the game they are testing. I suppose with DF though that Tasos thought it a good post to put out for the public to see. It just struck me as an odd thing for a Beta-tester to say.

“All in all its hard for me to judge Darkfall even in the slightest right now, the content is there, it just needs to be enabled/turned on and switched out of debug mode for me to get a real feel for it, there is a lot of various things I can comment on all day long as well, i've done this type of thing before with various server emulation builds etc for previous mmo's before, so having this little content activated/turned right now is nothing new to me, I want to help make Darkfall a huge success and cover the entire potential player base.”

Perhaps it was just me but I found that first part strange. "...the content is there..." How exactly is it known what content is there and which isn't if it hasn't been activated yet? It's good to see that they are doing a very systematic testing, as a Beta should be done; but I guess I expected them to be farther along at this point.

I was expecting these Beta-testers to be leveling all the way up to pave the way for the very soon public OPEN Beta, and then release which is only 6 weeks away. Hopefully the Devs have learned from AoC's recent lessons that they need to let the Beta-testers actually test EVERYTHING. That includes end-game content like seiging and guild war-fare.

“The graphics scale pretty well apparently. The game looks fine. They need to do some optimization, but everything is running in debug mode and I get 60-90 FPS.”

“Performance is better than I would have ever imagined on my machine.”

"...In closing the Darkfall client does not seem to have any noticeable memory leaks, however cluster loads can seem completely random at times, however are short, 5-15 seconds range = great.”

"There is a lot of attention to detail and you can tell that there was a lot of love put into some of the design. The quality of graphics and animation have a little inconsistency, but overall there is a "wow" factor that I never expected from an MMO that gives you free range over everything."

I am a bit mixed on what to make of the comments on the performance and the graphics. It looks like it is really good from the majority of the comments except for the occasional chunk loading. I am just a bit surprised that a tester thinks that 60-90 FPS is sub-par and needs even better optimization though... especially since it is running in debug mode.

“The first mobs I found in dwarf area were hitting from extreme range and then did special attacks that were stamina draining. It was rather brutal for a starting area and I died several times to repeat the 5 minute run.”

This part reminded me of my first days in EQ when it was just released. Many, many deaths... but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. 

“Intelligent AI? This is something I've not experienced until entering Df. It's as if fighting the mobs mirrored fighting other players. They actually work together attempting to kill you rather then serving as your training material.”

“I can take out goblins pretty easily by meleeing them until they run, and then playing LOS games using bow/magic. The spell is AE so shooting it at their feet works best. Arrows travel really fast and you should have no trouble hitting them most of the time when they're shooting at you too. Arrows don't really do enough damage though.”

"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart."

“The goblins seems to have been toned down considerably and I can farm them VERY easy now with my starter sword. That is the way it feels for me atleast. I used to get 1 goblin hitting me with a sword while 2 or 3 of his pals walked in a half circle around me hitting me with arrows. Now I just kick their asses. Have I gotten that much better since last time I played or have they been toned down alot?”

“AI is great, it provides a challenge, but im no idiot, the AI knows exactly where my cursor is pointing and it zigzags and responds to it lighting fast, im a old time quake 3 player, predicting movement and using
splash damage was a requisite to becoming a great quake 3 player, these mobs currently put the highest level of quake 3 bots (nightmare bots) to shame, they respond much too quickly to cursor (aim) position for ranged attacks, even utilizing splash/aiming at feet technique. Another AI behavior i'd like to address is...are mobs really ALL supposed to have range abilities? I'm sorry, that's silly, yes it cuts down on players just messing up melee specific mobs with range/magic, but its a tad bit repetitive when mobs start hitting you from 200 yards away, if ogres have the ability to use bows, they should realistically drop a [heavy] type bow or at least a different type of bow. Others may agree with the fact that all mobs have access to ranged abilities, but I may just be a different type of person, I know I won't be the only person that disagrees with ogres hitting me with arrows, boulders or rocks? Sure, but it comes down to always being hit from 200+ yards off by every monster under the sun, regardless of size, being humanoid, etc...”

This seems about right for the most part. Some think it's just right, some think it's too hard, some find it rather easy.

The part I found at odds with what we have heard in Dev posts before is the loot that drops. It would appear that either itemization of loot hasn't been fully implemented, or there is an unrealistic duplication of items (meaning re-using items as a one-size fits all).

As the Beta-tester above noted... an Ogre should not be dropping the same bow as a Goblin. Not a huge deal at this stage of Beta, but those loot tables seem to have a way of being left to the last minute in a lot of MMOs and it usually comes back to bite them in the end.

"I was very interested in checking out the keybindings available for the game, but then I saw this nasty little pop-up say "Don't push this button again". I just closed it and pretend the button doesn't exist any more."

I wasn't sure what to make of this statement and found it odd that Tasos would include it. Does it mean that key-binding isn't fully implemented yet? Does it mean that there are some things they didn't want the Beta-tester to change? Is it not meant to be taken literally? Anyway, just found it an odd paragraph to include.

“My initial impressions so far are not very favorable based on the newbie experience. Looking beyond superficial aspects such as non-functional character creation options, the interface is extremely non-intuitive and cumbersome. It took quite some time to learn the basic combat process, namely having to unsheathe before being able to attack.”

“It's a unique experience, albeit frustrating none-the-less even after figuring
out how to properly use things such as "rest" "looting a monster"sheathe/unsheathe" "attach/detach weapon/item", i'll be honest, even after learning it, frustrating and clunky is the only way I can express my feelings in regards to it, I have to watch my system messages like a hawk just to make sure i've attached/detached a weapon from my hands before I even want to try and go into a sheathe/unsheathe type stance."

“I dont want to offend anyone who would rather like it all easier and more "intuitive" - i just have a different opinion ... I love the fact that this here is no Clone of whatsoever.”

"I do understand some concerns people have with the UI and the whole "equip and then use" system instead of just click to use but since it's an fps style game I don't see any alternative."

I predict this to be the greatest area of contention when DarkFall finally does go to OPEN Beta and then release. It seems that those that come from a more FPS background adapted more easily than those that came from more of a MMO background. It will be interesting to see what if any of this changes through Beta.

"My biggest gripe at the moment is looting corpses..."

"Seriously guys, the drag & drop looting is something that should not be touched. It *should* take awhile to loot corpses and sort through piles of things. This worked great in UO and there's no reason why it shouldn't work great in DF."

"Is looting intented to be that hard? I reply to myself "yes" since when real pvp starts looting should be hard and not automatic."

“Looting is fine UO style and I don't want it to change. Yesterday as an Alfar I ran into a human town and PKed someone while getting attacked by the guard towers. I didn't have time to loot all his stuff and I didn't notice his mount figurine piled under some other stuff, so he was saved that by the cool looting system.”

"Yeah looting is suppose to be hard. For those of you that never played UO, this isn't anything."

O.K. perhaps I lied... this may be the biggest area of contention!

I agee with the UO style looting for PvP... I just wish they could change how it works for PvE kills. It is going to be a pain in the butt looting like that for every PvE kill. For PvP kills it makes sense, as it will be really tough and time-consuming to completely take everyone's stuff. For PvE though... that is going to be mind-numbingly tedious.

"Crafting is pretty neat, rudimentary and to the point. Nothing big and fancy like Vanguard, but it gets the job done without becoming a hassle."

"Did some cooking and the crafting system is alright. It's nothing new but it is straighforward and works fine, at least for the few things I crafted."

"If I sell these arrows to vendors I get 5gp which is a lost to me on time. Now true you can sell these arrows to other player for more money for the vendors sell 5 arrows for 20gp. I just have not seen at this time where or how you can sell your items.

There's also the progress bar, very plain and boring and set in stone 10.0 seconds, maybe increase in skill level can/should decrease the time? I know a lot of this stuff is still rather specific, but if characters are being wiped on a regular basis, will we ever get the chance to acquire 75-100 skill level to see if there are in fact different types of items that can be pulled from resource nodes?"

Hmm... I was hoping that Darkfall's crafting was going to be one of it's biggest assets. These quotes have me worried though. Hopefully they will allow the Beta-testers to fully test out the harvesting and crafting skills to make sure that everything is functioning properly... even at the highest skill levels.

Right now it would seem the Crafting is only going to be average. I had higher hopes, but maybe it will be one of the first things they concentrate on after release. At this late date, I can't realistically see them changing much in the are of Crafting/Harvesting before it is released. Unless of course it gets pushed back from a 2008 release date I suppose.

Well those were the quotes and the thoughts that jumped out at me at a first pass through them. Again, I'm going to assume they are all real and represent actual Beta-testers. There seems to be some real work being done and progress being made. Is it enough to ensure a 2008 release? I am still skeptical, but at leaset these quotes give us something new to talk about.

Good post.

I agree with a lot of the negative comments.  Although this update brought many more positive things to the table, the negatives are there, but in my opinion most are nothing that isnt easily fixed besides crafting.  If the crafting is just not as involving as I had hope, then thats something I will have to deal with.  Though they have not yet crafted to the high levels yet, and most of the "real" crafting occurs at the top skill levels.

In regards to "that is wierd that a beta tester would say that"...I think it is just how you look at it.  It makes perfect sense to me from a fanboi standpoint as it is someone who has been very involved in following the game and dealing with the vaporware nonsense, so now that he is actually able to play he is saying its not vaporware...in the sense that the game he is playing is polished and in a state that is able to be released soon and will be.

The controls comments worry me also.  Personally if it allows for more player skill to be involved then its cool, however im worried that your average MMOer is going to be turned off by this and it will effect population.  We already see serious posts on the official boards with people asking "why didnt they have a target + autoattack skill system with special skills?  Is it too late to change it for release as thats just how successful mmos usually do things".  It is already a niche market, and hopefully different controls wont drive away fans from an already smaller marketbase.

Im very interested about seeing more about crafting.  Hopefully they can clear up all the concerne about crafting and being a gold sink.  Not a big problem for me, but would just like a clarification.

this is what i derived rom this update.  this cuts out the possibility that darkfall will come out as a halfass game.  i see now 2 possibilties; the game will be the real deal that everyone is hoping for, or it will not come out at all.  if darkfall is really coming out at all, than we can trust these beta tester comments to be legit, which means the game is obviously in great shape.  but if there are no intentions to release this game (vaporware).  than taht would be the only logical reason for the comments to be bullshitted...

Originally posted by imbant

Good post.

I agree with a lot of the negative comments.  Although this update brought many more positive things to the table, the negatives are there, but in my opinion most are nothing that isnt easily fixed besides crafting.  If the crafting is just not as involving as I had hope, then thats something I will have to deal with.  Though they have not yet crafted to the high levels yet, and most of the "real" crafting occurs at the top skill levels.

In regards to "that is wierd that a beta tester would say that"...I think it is just how you look at it.  It makes perfect sense to me from a fanboi standpoint as it is someone who has been very involved in following the game and dealing with the vaporware nonsense, so now that he is actually able to play he is saying its not vaporware...in the sense that the game he is playing is polished and in a state that is able to be released soon and will be.

The controls comments worry me also.  Personally if it allows for more player skill to be involved then its cool, however im worried that your average MMOer is going to be turned off by this and it will effect population.  We already see serious posts on the official boards with people asking "why didnt they have a target + autoattack skill system with special skills?  Is it too late to change it for release as thats just how successful mmos usually do things".  It is already a niche market, and hopefully different controls wont drive away fans from an already smaller marketbase.

 

The UI controls and the Looting mechanics are going to be a constant thorn in the side for DarkFall. 
 

I have a pre-conceived notion of how I think they will affect me, but until I acutally play the game... I will not know for sure.  Right now I think I can get used to the UI controls as it's been explained by the Beta Testers... the looting is going to be iffy. 

You don't have to tell me I'm being a baby on the looting mechanic... I know I am.  I didn't like it in UO, but I put up with it, so I've got a pretty good idea of what to expect.  I know the reasoning behind it, and for PvP it does make sense.  It's just something that will undoubtedly draw a lot of criticism once the game goes live.   I haven't played UO in many, many years... so perhaps it won't drive me as crazy as it did there... I'm not going to hold my breath on that one though. 

On the crafting I'm hoping that they get a dedicated team of crafters testing every top skill level craftable item ASAP!  And don't reset them with the rest of the players.  We have a very recent example in what happens when the Devs assume that City Building and Seige weapons are working as intending without having the Beta Testers actually test it.  Hopefully that example will be very fresh in the minds of Aventurine. 

I have my doubts that everything can be tested thoroughly in less than 6 weeks, but hopefully they will decide to wait on release if the testing shows that it's just not ready.  One way or the other it won't be that long before we find out. 

Originally posted by  Darkfall Beta Tester

"The Client is astonishingly stable (except for the Crashes while changing resolutions/graphic settings - though this has got alot better since the last patches too.”

One of my biggest concerns with DF is their ability to keep stable servers on release.  This is just one of the quotes that showed that their servers are in good shape, even in beta, so definitely happy to hear that.

Originally posted by Darkfall Beta Testers

“Have u ever stop playing, sit back and admire the sunrise or the sunset in ANY other MMO? Darkfall was my first...
Yes the graphics ARE that good”
 

"The world is massive feeling and as I looked up at the sky I saw the sun moving. The shadows drew closer to me from a tower up on a hillside and I was looking at how the shadow changed as the sun moved. Then I got annihilated by a pack of goblins scouts because I was paying too much attention to the wrong parts of my surroundings."

"The amount of scaling possible with the graphics is genius. You have more options than ever and they all make sense. You don't have to have an enthusiast-level rig to enjoy df.”

Also some really great graphic quotes.  In the ADW video we see them show a moon rotating in the sky and the detail is amazing. 

When open beta comes around and people really get a chance to adjust the settings and push the engine to its limits, i think we will see a lot of people really happy with how good the graphics are.

5-15 second cluster loads have me concerned.  This type of thing only gets worse under stress, and I think it is pretty obvious they dont have that many testers.  I would also like to see what happens when 50 players cross a cluster boundry at the same time, etc...

Originally posted by Theodgrim

5-15 second cluster loads have me concerned.  This type of thing only gets worse under stress, and I think it is pretty obvious they dont have that many testers.  I would also like to see what happens when 50 players cross a cluster boundry at the same time, etc...

 

wouldnt worry about it to much atm

Originally posted by downtoearth

Originally posted by Theodgrim

5-15 second cluster loads have me concerned.  This type of thing only gets worse under stress, and I think it is pretty obvious they dont have that many testers.  I would also like to see what happens when 50 players cross a cluster boundry at the same time, etc...

 

 

wouldnt worry about it to much atm

I have been through the horror, so I have reason to worry.  Sure, someone is going to tell me they have debug running, and once it is turned off everything will be fine.  Heard it before. 
 

One important factor in load times is how often it will happen. If its only once or twice during a game session I am ok with that.

Thanks for the update looks like the testers are having fun

Originally posted by PatchDay

Thanks for the update looks like the testers are having fun

Def are.. things are on the up and up. Seems less server downtime. Ive had a little more time to get into it. I just wonder how this game will handle a full on stress test

Originally posted by Theodgrim

Originally posted by downtoearth

Originally posted by Theodgrim

5-15 second cluster loads have me concerned.  This type of thing only gets worse under stress, and I think it is pretty obvious they dont have that many testers.  I would also like to see what happens when 50 players cross a cluster boundry at the same time, etc...

 

 

wouldnt worry about it to much atm

 

I have been through the horror, so I have reason to worry.  Sure, someone is going to tell me they have debug running, and once it is turned off everything will be fine.  Heard it before. 
 

they mite have to have it that way 1 good thing is you can still see whats on the other side. of it. but just dont worry about it until open beta