Originally posted by Eschiava

Xennith,

What is "wrong" with some of us is that we have limited time.  As an example, I can spend my time PvPing, or missioning/ratting/market trading to support PvP.  If I do one, I don't do the other.  I've played MMO games for years and I am sick to death of PvE content, I prefer to PvP full time.

So, what is "wrong" with me, and with others I know, is that we want to PvP full time.  :)

bad phrasing perhaps. im a pvper as well, but i have an alt to do my cash generation. perhaps i should have said that if you are relying on GTC for all your ISK you are missing some very easy oppertunites to turn isk into more isk

With QR, GTC sales for ISK are now instutionalized in the Eve market.

Like my quote says, RMT is cheating. It's a shame CCP sold out and condoned it. Glad I left EVE before that change was applied to the EvE world.

So now that CCP has broken through the gate, we will eventually have in all our games the haves and the have nots, the players who can afford to spend real money to enrich their fantasy and those that can't --- or won't. If the servers can discriminate, Guilds will be next. It's a sad era dawning for MMORPG's.

Originally posted by TheRedPill

So now that CCP has broken through the gate, we will eventually have in all our games the haves and the have nots, the players who can afford to spend real money to enrich their fantasy and those that can't --- or won't. If the servers can discriminate, Guilds will be next. It's a sad era dawning for MMORPG's.

Mention one game that don't have RMT, condoned or not.

This way the ISK seller get to pay the game for free, the ISK buyer pays his subscription. So I can't calculate what CCP earns on this as the one selling ISK don't need to paying CCP for his subscription whereas in other games... Like [game] where you first pay your subfee in addtion to that also pay the farmer money for the ingame money. Dont forget that the farmer also pays for that accounts subscription. So in this [game] there is an actual profit to be made for the developer up to a certain point, they are playing catch up with the illicit RMT traders.

CCP have made an offer that makes you able, as a said, play the game for free when you are selling ISK. Being able to buy ISK with buying two subscriptions. One for you and one for the seller.

It is worth noting that professional isk sellers can not make money out of the system. They can only get more gametime, which can not be resold.

In all alliances i have seen there were a few weekend warriors who used gtc to be able to keep pvping in their rare spare time, and a few alliance members buying those to be able to play the game. It's actually a great way, people who have a busy work day pay for the subs of people with less money..especially students who are usually out of cash.

Example from the market. This shows buyorders and sellorders on GTC, or PLEX, this is made from players of the game not CCP.

For Elsabolts....

As for GTCs, I don't really agree with letting people use out-of-game resources to purchase in-game resources, but given that gold sellers are a fact of life in any MMO that has a functional economy I think CCP has made the best choice by giving people a sanctioned method of doing it that cuts the resellers / farmers out of the loop.

There are a few purists who might look down on players who buy/sell GTC, but for the most part the practice is accepted by the EVE community.  Why? Because he who has the most ISK does not always win. 

In fact, I've never lost a fight where my thoughts were, "crap, that guy must have purchased his ISK, so that's why he beat me".   No, I'm flying a ship just as good as anyone elses, and my character skills are good so in the end, I lose fights for the most part due to "operator error" or plain jujst being outfought.

There are a few poeple who think that buying their way to the top in EVE will mean they are untouchable. That mostly results in comedy killmails though.

As far as EVE GTC's go...they are a necessary evil. RMT companies will always be in MMO's, it's a given they are impossible to get rid of. What CCP has done by providing a controlled outlet for GTC sales is not only protect the ingame markets from mudflation, but actually reduce the market for illegal RMT isk sales.

Seriously anyone who thinks there is a way to eliminate all RMT from a MMO is delusional. Expect other MMO's to follow CCP's lead in the future.

Short answer: Yes

Long answer: Well, somebody got to pay for my alts.

Necessary evil. Thats why everyone sells it with their alts instead of mains.

Truthfully, I have no problems with GTC sellers, reason why? I love playing a quality game for free! I mean honestly, you're always going to have people who sell game currency, and overall I like the way that CCP handles EVE in general. Free updates, no need to buy extra expansions, free gaming if you can make the ISK.

I don't buy or sell GTC's, my RL cashflow does not get affected by my subscription fees but at the same time my ingame cashflow (and needs) do not warrant selling GTC's to make it work. On the other hand, while I could sell my isk I can't be bothered to swap ingame effort for a little RL cash. I'm quite neutral on the whole affair.

While I don't appreciate people bringing in RL cash to make up for  their ingame inadequacies to me it doesn't change the game much since (as stated above) having isk doesn't neccesarily mean winning. Besides, IHAVE isk, more than I need. I CAN understand people who have limited free time and a good job to not want to bother with making cash ingame, if they need to work 30 minutes to buy isk that would take them 3 days to make then I completely understand that decision.

However, i don't see a difference between people buying isk from farmers or via GTC. They amount to the same thing regardless of what kind of moral value you want to put on it. Without GTC sellling there'd be less accounts for sure so CCP is happy, but at the same time those extra accounts will be mostly alts which means there's less interaction between players going on since you can do it all solo.

GTC's are the best answer  to an evil that shouldn't exist.

I am a fairly new EVE player, I have never bought or sold GTCs, but I like the idea of them being in the game:
For one, and I am surprised no one has mentioned it yet, they are an awesome way of taking ISK out of the game economy which helps preventing inflation.
Second: time is very important in EVE - especially now that ghost training has been removed: if you for some reason cannot pay for your next month of game time, you are loosing skill training time (which is a permanent loss as it is impossible to make up for it), so giving people an option to pay with in game currency for more playing time is great.

To sum it up, I see no problem with trading ISK for gaming time, or vice versa, if you do it the CCP way you know you are making a safe transaction, and you are not destroying the game... Plus if you are real good at making in game money you can actually play for free, how perfect is that?

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Originally posted by Gnazon
For one, and I am surprised no one has mentioned it yet, they are an awesome way of taking ISK out of the game economy which helps preventing inflation.

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Nobody mentioned it, because it's wrong. Sorry.
Isk just change its owner, it is not taken out of game.

You are absolutely right, my bad. Thanks.

Orphus, Batolemaus and Kylearn, you three make a reasonable arguement for the existance of CCP, and I thank you for that. Perdhaps it is not such a sad day after all.

Originally posted by batolemaeus

 

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Originally posted by Gnazon
For one, and I am surprised no one has mentioned it yet, they are an awesome way of taking ISK out of the game economy which helps preventing inflation.

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Nobody mentioned it, because it's wrong. Sorry.
Isk just change its owner, it is not taken out of game.

Well, not entirely wrong.  GTC selling takes ISK out of the game indirectly.  Follow my reasoning.

Its a safe assumption that some portion of GTC sellers are using the ISK they buy to fund PVP activities. (I'd put forth that its a large percentage, but I'm only guessing). PVP activities eventually lead to lost ships/modules (either because the buyer kills others, or gets killed) which in turn takes the ISK out of the EVE universe. (rather than sitting unused in someones wallet)

edit: Thank you "TheRedPill."  EVE continues to be a facinating game to me and I think others would enjoy it as well, however I recognize there are quite a few challenges to joining and succeeding in the EVE universe.

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Originally posted by Kyleran
PVP activities eventually lead to lost ships/modules (either because the buyer kills others, or gets killed) which in turn takes the ISK out of the EVE universe. (rather than sitting unused in someones wallet)

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Nope. You buy the stuff from someone who gets your isk. No npcs sell t2 gear or ships.
When you ship blows up, you actually insert isk into the economy through insurance.

PvP, especially with t1 ships, is an isk faucet, not a drain.

Real isk drains are trades with npc (skillbooks, nanite paste, posfuel etc), market taxes, and insurances that run out with no ship exploding.

Originally posted by Soraellion

However, i don't see a difference between people buying isk from farmers or via GTC. They amount to the same thing regardless of what kind of moral value you want to put on it.

Well, I do see a few  differences.  ISK sellers frequently spam chat channels, CCP doesn't.  ISK sellers sometimes try to steal your account, CCP doesn't.   ISK sellers/macro miners can take over key belts/resources in the game, denying legitimate players access, CCP won't.

But from a moral perspective (if such a thing exists in online games) I concur, not a whole lot of difference.