You will have alot of players that want a harsh penalty system that love online games like Eve Online and Ultima Online. Thats why alot of these players are banking on Darkfall to be the next BIG Online game for the truley hardcore players that love consequences for PvPing.

Me, I played Eve Online for 2 years (casually) and absolutely loved it, nothing could match its system. However when you play a game for so long, you definetly start to burn out and start looking elsewhere for another fix. This game defiinelty requires a guild effort if you want to succeed and noth solo for the faint at hearts.

I love WAR, yeah its no Eve Online, but then again as someone stated, who cares if its a carebear game, as long as your having fun.

PS. also pretty harsh penalty as one stated, you die, you pay 100 bucks.. LOL .. I will stay clear of that online game especially the way the economy is here in the USA.

Originally posted by HiGHPLaiNS

I love WAR, yeah its no Eve Online, but then again as someone stated, who cares if its a carebear game, as long as your having fun.

Appearantly the people who think they are better than others because they play "harder" games and has the need to tell everybody so though in a more "polite" way :P

I agree with you the PVP and PVE would be so much more fun is there was a death penalty . Even the most causal player would have to agree that adding some sort of risk would make the game more interesting.

Originally posted by lorndarken

just as the title states,  this is true with little to no consequence when dieing in the rvr lakes or in the scenarios.

in some games where there was pvp , most people would not dare compete in the pvp because the pvp was risky, eq , you die  the enemy could then loot your corpse , sell it or use the items you took

in others not only a looted corpse would happen but you have to start all over again from lvl 1 because the charecter would be worthless,

and in others they had it a little more fair , where you kept your armor and items, but the gold you carried would be looted, or item that was on you  could be looted.

or in others your armor would be damaged and then a need for armor repairs would take place

in warhammer, you dont lose anything when you die, no xp, no renown, no gold, no armor, or need to repair armor

and the consequences for dieing were not there unless you consider holding your team back from doing its job so that the other forces could be better  off in taking control of a certain area.

is there really any reason to fear dieing ? no

when i needed to get back to a camp so i could get my reward from   pqs  influence or to buy armor , i would simply kill myself with a bunch of mobs on me and that was that, bam i was back .

i would never do that in eq or daoc cause then id have to pay for it one way or another.

 

would you really want to play a game where you lost items you worked hard for? how freakin dumb would that be, NO ONE would play, you think warhammer has a lack of players? that game would have NO players whatsoever

Originally posted by DrAllcome

I agree with you the PVP and PVE would be so much more fun is there was a death penalty . Even the most causal player would have to agree that adding some sort of risk would make the game more interesting.

It's not even remotely as important as having a good reward for doing good instead.

Originally posted by elondor

Originally posted by lorndarken

just as the title states,  this is true with little to no consequence when dieing in the rvr lakes or in the scenarios.

in some games where there was pvp , most people would not dare compete in the pvp because the pvp was risky, eq , you die  the enemy could then loot your corpse , sell it or use the items you took

in others not only a looted corpse would happen but you have to start all over again from lvl 1 because the charecter would be worthless,

and in others they had it a little more fair , where you kept your armor and items, but the gold you carried would be looted, or item that was on you  could be looted.

or in others your armor would be damaged and then a need for armor repairs would take place

in warhammer, you dont lose anything when you die, no xp, no renown, no gold, no armor, or need to repair armor

and the consequences for dieing were not there unless you consider holding your team back from doing its job so that the other forces could be better  off in taking control of a certain area.

is there really any reason to fear dieing ? no

when i needed to get back to a camp so i could get my reward from   pqs  influence or to buy armor , i would simply kill myself with a bunch of mobs on me and that was that, bam i was back .

i would never do that in eq or daoc cause then id have to pay for it one way or another.

 

 

would you really want to play a game where you lost items you worked hard for? how freakin dumb would that be, NO ONE would play, you think warhammer has a lack of players? that game would have NO players whatsoever

See?
This is the typical MMO player these days, players who would have no chance in old games such as UO or L2 Pre-Carebearisation(who had more subs than WAR will ever have, and you could lose gear that you worked for months...)
And that's why we are pissed off, because almost all MMOs are focused on players like this one. EVE is the only one who actually dared and it still has a consistent population.
And for your information, gear offers very little in Darkfall, it's mostly based on what skills you chose to use.
 

Originally posted by DuraheLL

Originally posted by DrAllcome

I agree with you the PVP and PVE would be so much more fun is there was a death penalty . Even the most causal player would have to agree that adding some sort of risk would make the game more interesting.

 

It's not even remotely as important as having a good reward for doing good instead.

who wants to spend money to repair armor, spend time to recover xp, and spend time walking back to a corpse.  no one has that kind of time to play, and if they do then they need to find a job and a girlfriend.

games like everquest and ultima online are a thing of the past, and need to stay there. darkfall will be the same, lots of people will buy it, and maybe 50,000 will stay in the long run because no one wants to play a gankfest peice of crap.

Originally posted by elondor

Originally posted by DuraheLL

Originally posted by DrAllcome

I agree with you the PVP and PVE would be so much more fun is there was a death penalty . Even the most causal player would have to agree that adding some sort of risk would make the game more interesting.

 

It's not even remotely as important as having a good reward for doing good instead.

 

who wants to spend money to repair armor, spend time to recover xp, and spend time walking back to a corpse.  no one has that kind of time to play, and if they do then they need to find a job and a girlfriend.

 

games like everquest and ultima online are a thing of the past, and need to stay there. darkfall will be the same, lots of people will buy it, and maybe 50,000 will stay in the long run because no one wants to play a gankfest peice of crap.

Yeah, bring on the old "ZOMG NO LIFE" whenever something asks you for more than 2 brain cells...nice one dude, really.

i find it funny when you state a claim that has facts in it about something, people automaticly get offended and start a flame war and cry : "you want to play a game where you die and then someone shows up at your house and kicks your dog for about 5 mins" . lmao

did i say i wanted that to begin with ? no

i was just saying, the game is carebear for a pvp game.

do you feel on edge about dieing in this game ? i would think not since there is hardly a penelty to begin with.

if there was more of a penalty  to pvping in this game , i would assume there would be more hate amogst the sides. order would hate destro and vice versa,

this is something that lacks in warhammer , but i would bet anything that if the penalty would be ,

in the rvr lakes. if you died you would get a xp half  earn towards your current xp. cause everyone hates to level up slowly, but if their xp earned was due to a player killing you , i bet you would be mad , and play the game more carefully.  but instead they give you a timer  for -hp .

but the original statement i made is true about this game,

now the question is , is it hurting the game or helping it, having no consequence when you die in warhammer ?

Originally posted by Thenarius

Originally posted by Lizard_SF

 easy, fun, low-risk PVP

They are called FPS.
There are lots of people who want a quality 3D fantasy UO-style MMO and once it is released, I assure you, it will have more subs than WAR.

I played UO back in '99 and i remember UO PvP and I have no doubt in my mind that you are wrong. Personally i loved UO PvP. It was fun, exciting, great, and all of that but in today's market a game like WAR or WoW with that kind of penalty would not last. The only way ANY game can last and be fun like UO was is if the best items are crafted gear and gear itself did very little in the way of helping a char succeed in PvP. The kind of players that are in MMO's today want their game with nice powerful shiny weapons and do not want to lose them to a zerg.

I have been waiting for Darkfall for about 4 years now (since WISH was cancelled) and to be honest with you, I'm done holding my breath for a game that was as great as UO cause in today's market and the way other players are it just is never gonna happen to have more subs than WAR

Originally posted by calibek

Originally posted by Thenarius

Originally posted by Lizard_SF

 easy, fun, low-risk PVP

They are called FPS.
There are lots of people who want a quality 3D fantasy UO-style MMO and once it is released, I assure you, it will have more subs than WAR.

 

I played UO back in '99 and i remember UO PvP and I have no doubt in my mind that you are wrong. Personally i loved UO PvP. It was fun, exciting, great, and all of that but in today's market a game like WAR or WoW with that kind of penalty would not last. The only way ANY game can last and be fun like UO was is if the best items are crafted gear and gear itself did very little in the way of helping a char succeed in PvP. The kind of players that are in MMO's today want their game with nice powerful shiny weapons and do not want to lose them to a zerg.

I have been waiting for Darkfall for about 4 years now (since WISH was cancelled) and to be honest with you, I'm done holding my breath for a game that was as great as UO cause in today's market and the way other players are it just is never gonna happen to have more subs than WAR

There are actually lots of people playing WAR and thought WAR was gonna be more complex.
People are gonna leave, WAR's subs will drop and there are other MMOs out there such as Aion who combine both PvE and PvP.
I don't see WAR sitting at the current no of subscriptions in the future.
If Darkfall sits at 150k-250k(to get some actual money from it and continue maintaining it properly) then it's more than fine.
And it's pretty much how you said(or at least was advertised): great crafting and gear not having too much impact.
One question for WAR players: Why don't they ask MJ to remove death anyway? You'll be in the middle of the action all the time and have fun!

Originally posted by lorndarken

just as the title states,  this is true with little to no consequence when dieing in the rvr lakes or in the scenarios.

Good. Thank god.

in some games where there was pvp , most people would not dare compete in the pvp because the pvp was risky, eq , you die  the enemy could then loot your corpse , sell it or use the items you took

Yeah, I hated that too. Drove me away from pvp.

in others not only a looted corpse would happen but you have to start all over again from lvl 1 because the charecter would be worthless,

and in others they had it a little more fair , where you kept your armor and items, but the gold you carried would be looted, or item that was on you  could be looted.

or in others your armor would be damaged and then a need for armor repairs would take place

Boy, those games must suck.

in warhammer, you dont lose anything when you die, no xp, no renown, no gold, no armor, or need to repair armor

Sweet, less down time, more pvp.

and the consequences for dieing were not there unless you consider holding your team back from doing its job so that the other forces could be better  off in taking control of a certain area.

Sounds like you need to be careful, or your death might hold your team back....wait I thought you said there was no incentive to stay alive......

is there really any reason to fear dieing ? no

Sounds good. I don't fear death.

when i needed to get back to a camp so i could get my reward from   pqs  influence or to buy armor , i would simply kill myself with a bunch of mobs on me and that was that, bam i was back .

Sounds like a fun way to zone. Boy I hate running back to camp.

i would never do that in eq or daoc cause then id have to pay for it one way or another.

No doubt. That was one of the downsides to those games. I like faster travel too.

 

You make all sound so good. People may just start playing because of this. Of course, it won't attract assholes and gankers, but that is just another plus.

Originally posted by Thenarius

Originally posted by calibek

Originally posted by Thenarius

Originally posted by Lizard_SF

 easy, fun, low-risk PVP

They are called FPS.
There are lots of people who want a quality 3D fantasy UO-style MMO and once it is released, I assure you, it will have more subs than WAR.

 

I played UO back in '99 and i remember UO PvP and I have no doubt in my mind that you are wrong. Personally i loved UO PvP. It was fun, exciting, great, and all of that but in today's market a game like WAR or WoW with that kind of penalty would not last. The only way ANY game can last and be fun like UO was is if the best items are crafted gear and gear itself did very little in the way of helping a char succeed in PvP. The kind of players that are in MMO's today want their game with nice powerful shiny weapons and do not want to lose them to a zerg.

I have been waiting for Darkfall for about 4 years now (since WISH was cancelled) and to be honest with you, I'm done holding my breath for a game that was as great as UO cause in today's market and the way other players are it just is never gonna happen to have more subs than WAR

There are actually lots of people playing WAR and thought WAR was gonna be more complex.
People are gonna leave, WAR's subs will drop and there are other MMOs out there such as Aion who combine both PvE and PvP.
I don't see WAR sitting at the current no of subscriptions in the future.
If Darkfall sits at 150k-250k(to get some actual money from it and continue maintaining it properly) then it's more than fine.
And it's pretty much how you said(or at least was advertised): great crafting and gear not having too much impact.
 

Unless they change some things I don't see it either but a lot of people said the same thing about WoW when it was raid or die.

As for Dakrfall, with the little information they have put out since the game is so close to release (around Dec or a little after I believe was said), combined with people weary about spending money on games with the Vanguard and AoC fiasco's they'd have to have a game come out with NO flaws and have the most wonderful skill system in existance and I just don't see that happening which leads me to believe that 150-250k subscribers in gonna be very far reaching.

When I played WAR I checked all my ffa pvp fanboi feelings at the door.

I knew this game would be a low risk pvp game and I was fine with that.

I don't understand why you guys are upset with Mythic for making a low risk pvp game, we all knew it would be like this years before release.

If you want Pvp with risk play Eve or L2 or you could wait for the big four (DF, ER, MO, FE).

yea, WAR sucks....because its too easy...really, you just hit a couple buttons and then the same button over and over again until you run out of energy....then wait a little....then start again...the hardest part is keeping within or without melee range or certain classes.

Vanguard pvp is better. and the pvp server has about 5 people playing at a time. :P

Originally posted by Zorgo

Originally posted by lorndarken

just as the title states,  this is true with little to no consequence when dieing in the rvr lakes or in the scenarios.

Good. Thank god.

in some games where there was pvp , most people would not dare compete in the pvp because the pvp was risky, eq , you die  the enemy could then loot your corpse , sell it or use the items you took

Yeah, I hated that too. Drove me away from pvp.

in others not only a looted corpse would happen but you have to start all over again from lvl 1 because the charecter would be worthless,

and in others they had it a little more fair , where you kept your armor and items, but the gold you carried would be looted, or item that was on you  could be looted.

or in others your armor would be damaged and then a need for armor repairs would take place

Boy, those games must suck.

in warhammer, you dont lose anything when you die, no xp, no renown, no gold, no armor, or need to repair armor

Sweet, less down time, more pvp.

and the consequences for dieing were not there unless you consider holding your team back from doing its job so that the other forces could be better  off in taking control of a certain area.

Sounds like you need to be careful, or your death might hold your team back....wait I thought you said there was no incentive to stay alive......

is there really any reason to fear dieing ? no

Sounds good. I don't fear death.

when i needed to get back to a camp so i could get my reward from   pqs  influence or to buy armor , i would simply kill myself with a bunch of mobs on me and that was that, bam i was back .

Sounds like a fun way to zone. Boy I hate running back to camp.

i would never do that in eq or daoc cause then id have to pay for it one way or another.

No doubt. That was one of the downsides to those games. I like faster travel too.

 

 

You make all sound so good. People may just start playing because of this. Of course, it won't attract assholes and gankers, but that is just another plus.

Hey man, Not all ffa pvp fans are assholes and gankers.  Some players just enjoy pvp that isnt a FPS/mmo respawn fest.

Try not to be such a prick.

Can't agree more.  I quit after 3 weeks because the PvP has been made for people who DONT like PvP.   Its a nice way to get involved in PvP and not really be concerned about dying.  For me I prefer a much hard core version PvP and one that has actual meaning.  

Actually I find every form of PvP where you get the chance to gank or zerg your opponent carebear. No matter what the consequence of dying will be.

Only even field, skill based PvP is not carebear imo. The less possibities to get a safe advantage(playernumbers, gearstats) over your opponent before the battle starts, the better. Because in this form your only choice is getting better at PvP and you will still lose regurarly and have to learn to deal with it.

In my experience there are normally only relatively few players that want a real challenge in PvP. The majority will join the largest group or the shortest route to ubergear. That's carebear! I also suspect this is why loads of those so called 'tough' players prefer gearbased PvP. Penalties for dying have nothing to do with this.

Originally posted by Lizard_SF

Why does "PVP Game" imply or demand "Harsh death penalty"? This assumption seems without merit.

Yes, WAR is a Carebear game. Big whoop-de-friggin-doo. It's also a FUN game, at least for me, and that's all that matters.

There's Shadowbane, there's EVE, there may be Darkfall. Enjoy.

WAR is what it is, and isn't likely to change -- if anything, it looks like patches will make getting back into the fight even faster, no more tedious runs across half the zone to get back to the keep. So posting here about WAR is "carebear" is about as useful as going to the Microsoft boards and asking when they're going to open-source Windows.

It doesn't, and the only games the OP can compare to are old style hardcore PvE games where the death penalty didn't only apply to PvP but to PvE as well. Some people grow up and don't spend 30hrs a week playing games, others complain about games not suiting their "hardcore nature.

Not the tedious 'HardCore Vs Carebear' nonsense again!

The whole argument is as nonsensical as saying 'Carebears drink Tea because Coffee is too Hardcore'!

Neither side is Right/Wrong, Better/Worse, Cool/Lame etc, they are just two different styles of gameplay so claiming 'Game X is for Carebears' is no better than saying 'Only a Masochist would like Game Y'.

Clearly the majority of people do not want FFA PvP otherwise those types of game would predominate, rather than there not being many that are considered hardcore enough apart from EVE & maybe Darkfall assuming Santa does indeed deliver that much overdue present this year.

There would be no point for the Victor in Warhammer being FFA PvP because most items are bound to the character so people would have nothing worth stealing anyway. A stiffer Death Penalty would be just that, purely a hinderance to the person that lost a fight. Some might think that worthwhile in itself, but obviously not the majority as Death Penalties in all MMOs have become progressively lass harsh over the years. 

In order for the Victor to gain anything other than cash from the fight, the game economy & itemisation has to be designed around that principle. I remember way back in EQ1, the armour & weapons never wore out & there was a roaring trade in 'Second Hand Goods'. Most MMOs have moved away from that system also for a variety of reasons, hence why most items are 'Character Bound' nowadays.

There is nothing wrong with people wanting harsher penalties or to steal other people's equipment but they have to understand they are in the minority & constantly insulting anyone who disagrees is pretty sad.

It isn't as if everyone would be converted to playing 'Hardcore' if someone tried to launch a mass market FFA PvP game, it would just fail to attract that many players because it only has a minority appeal.

Hopefully 'Darkfall' will be released in December after all & give the 'Hardcore' crowd something to keep them quiet for a while at least. 

It has that jump in a random server on an FPS for PVP type of feel

Originally posted by originalegg

Originally posted by ParkCarsHere

Your ideas, Lizard_SF, are beyond revolutionary. You should work for Mythic!

One suggestion though, if I may edit an already-perfect plan, is that instead of simply having your character deleted and being charged on your credit card for $100, that they also deactivate your account (although still charging $15/month that cannot be cancelled) and require you to buy a new game, create a new account, and pay an addition $15 a month.

I just realized that it is because they did not implement any of these features that I am no longer having fun in PvP. Only if they do this will PvP in this game be fun.

Edit: By the way, I guarantee it that if Mythic added a penalty for death, the OP would be running back to WoW PvP...

 

I love how the carebears always respond to this topic the same way.  Since they cant fathom that a death penalty adds excitement and immersion to some people's experience...they always do this exageration response where they say lol maybe we should attach car batteries to our nipples and get shocked whenever we died!

Sorry but OP is actually correct.

WAR is a pvp game right?  Yet their death penalty is a joke and shows how silly it was that there is even one at all.  When you die, you rez at a graveyard and have your health reduced by 10%. However when you rez, there is a healer about 2 feet away from you that will take this penalty off you for about .000001% of your gold.

Also, when you kill someone in a big pvp fight, especially open RVR...it doesnt mean much.  They are back in your face at 100% effectiveness pretty fast. 

There is no fear of dieing....they shouldnt even call it death. 

The example of people suiciding because sometimes it is the fastest way to travel is a prime example of how softcore and carebearish games have become.  ESPECIALLY IN A PVP CENTERED GAME!!!!

Hell even WoW had corpse runs as a penalty.  As well as armor repairs...better than WAR that has NOTHING.'

You guys may like carebear handholding, but others like to feel excitement and actual risk v reward situations. 

Carebears?  We are talking about a video game right?  LOL.   Some of us can fathom the "excitement" of a death penalty. 

You are so hardcore, I am willing to bet that you will be able to save the world and eliminate all carebears at the same time.

I don't believe he said anything about attaching batteries for shocks on your nipples.  Did you cut and paste this response and save it to your hard drive?

I dunno.  I guess some of us play games for enjoyment and don't make them our reason for existing. 

Angry Little Anti-Carebear man, please, go do something exciting.  Save the whales or a forest.  Maybe, just maybe you can save us from the Care Bears.

Originally posted by Dava

Originally posted by originalegg

Originally posted by ParkCarsHere

Your ideas, Lizard_SF, are beyond revolutionary. You should work for Mythic!

One suggestion though, if I may edit an already-perfect plan, is that instead of simply having your character deleted and being charged on your credit card for $100, that they also deactivate your account (although still charging $15/month that cannot be cancelled) and require you to buy a new game, create a new account, and pay an addition $15 a month.

I just realized that it is because they did not implement any of these features that I am no longer having fun in PvP. Only if they do this will PvP in this game be fun.

Edit: By the way, I guarantee it that if Mythic added a penalty for death, the OP would be running back to WoW PvP...

 

I love how the carebears always respond to this topic the same way.  Since they cant fathom that a death penalty adds excitement and immersion to some people's experience...they always do this exageration response where they say lol maybe we should attach car batteries to our nipples and get shocked whenever we died!

Sorry but OP is actually correct.

WAR is a pvp game right?  Yet their death penalty is a joke and shows how silly it was that there is even one at all.  When you die, you rez at a graveyard and have your health reduced by 10%. However when you rez, there is a healer about 2 feet away from you that will take this penalty off you for about .000001% of your gold.

Also, when you kill someone in a big pvp fight, especially open RVR...it doesnt mean much.  They are back in your face at 100% effectiveness pretty fast. 

There is no fear of dieing....they shouldnt even call it death. 

The example of people suiciding because sometimes it is the fastest way to travel is a prime example of how softcore and carebearish games have become.  ESPECIALLY IN A PVP CENTERED GAME!!!!

Hell even WoW had corpse runs as a penalty.  As well as armor repairs...better than WAR that has NOTHING.'

You guys may like carebear handholding, but others like to feel excitement and actual risk v reward situations. 

Carebears?  We are talking about a video game right?  LOL.   Some of us can fathom the "excitement" of a death penalty. 

You are so hardcore, I am willing to bet that you will be able to save the world and eliminate all carebears at the same time.

I don't believe he said anything about attaching batteries for shocks on your nipples.  Did you cut and paste this response and save it to your hard drive?

I dunno.  I guess some of us play games for enjoyment and don't make them our reason for existing. 

Angry Little Anti-Carebear man, please, go do something exciting.  Save the whales or a forest.  Maybe, just maybe you can save us from the Care Bears.

WoW i apparently struck a nerve in a carebear lol....

also read the green highlights....aparently you were so quick to be an internet badass you failed to read, or at least understand.  While he didnt use the example i did...it is the same thing, just comming up with an extremely extreme death penalty to prove the point of not wanting death penalties.

Wow you carebears sure are touchy. 

Originally posted by chryses

Can't agree more.  I quit after 3 weeks because the PvP has been made for people who DONT like PvP.   Its a nice way to get involved in PvP and not really be concerned about dying.  For me I prefer a much hard core version PvP and one that has actual meaning.  

The second sentence made me smile. Indeed OR you want  a serious death penalty OR you view PvP as a fast skill based game in a rated competition.

Neither is present, so why should hardcore PvP people even be interested? For the zergfest?

In WAR when you die you spawn right next to a healer in the warcamp 30 seconds away from the Lake PVP zone . Might cost you 5 sec and 2 silver.. Then your as good as new.  A 15 minute time out where stats are reduced 50/75% would be a good start. There should be a time out for death in every MMO PVP based game otherwise it serves no purpose defeating other players in battle.