I can't diss on eve - it's a neat game. I also like the learning curve because it keeps people who don't have the patience to learn the game out of it. You see them in the rookie channel being douche-bags and you thank goodness for the learning curve. "glad that douchebag's going back to wow".

But, the game doesn't seem to be very noob friendly. This game rewards time put in. But, it rewards it to an extreme and with the ghost training giving the veterans an even bigger boost - there's no way for noobs to catch up. Not without YEARS of training and time.

Like I said, the game is fun but, the fact that it would take me soooo long to catch up has made me decide that this one too is not for me.

Great community, good game but, the vets of the game are rewarded too greatly in my opinion.

Thanks for the fun guys!

The "never being able to catch up" issue is largely a fallacy.

Yes, there are people who have skilled up enough to be able to fly every ship fitted with the best loadout, but you need to consider the fact they can only fly one ship at a time. Every skill that applies to any ships or equipment they're not using becomes completely irrelevant.

Not only that, but the difference between each skill level is marginal enough that it doesn't create such a huge difference between someone who has level 1 and someone who has level 5.

Originally posted by Mentat

I can't diss on eve - it's a neat game. I also like the learning curve because it keeps people who don't have the patience to learn the game out of it. You see them in the rookie channel being douche-bags and you thank goodness for the learning curve. "glad that douchebag's going back to wow".

But, the game doesn't seem to be very noob friendly. This game rewards time put in. But, it rewards it to an extreme and with the ghost training giving the veterans an even bigger boost - there's no way for noobs to catch up. Not without YEARS of training and time.

Like I said, the game is fun but, the fact that it would take me soooo long to catch up has made me decide that this one too is not for me.

Great community, good game but, the vets of the game are rewarded too greatly in my opinion.

 

Thanks for the fun guys!

 

Define "Catch Up"

You can compete in PvP perfectly fine with way less skill points than your opponent.

Dont worry about catching up to other players. Play at the pace and style you want to. This game rewards you for it. You'll never catch up to the amount of money or skill training time that some players have so dont let this be a deterant to your gameplay.

Many starter players have been successful in taking out "older" players so dont let that discourage you.

Keep trying and ask many questions of a corp b4 joining one.

Originally posted by Mentat

I can't diss on eve - it's a neat game. I also like the learning curve because it keeps people who don't have the patience to learn the game out of it. You see them in the rookie channel being douche-bags and you thank goodness for the learning curve. "glad that douchebag's going back to wow".

But, the game doesn't seem to be very noob friendly. This game rewards time put in. But, it rewards it to an extreme and with the ghost training giving the veterans an even bigger boost - there's no way for noobs to catch up. Not without YEARS of training and time.

Like I said, the game is fun but, the fact that it would take me soooo long to catch up has made me decide that this one too is not for me.

Great community, good game but, the vets of the game are rewarded too greatly in my opinion.

 

Thanks for the fun guys!

 

You're very, very wrong with that opinion, do NOT bring other MMO's values (better gear=win) to this one.

The "can never catch up" myth does have a basis, many people will tell you to grab a frigate and go tackle etc but that's rubbish even flying a frigate effectively in today's EVE is maybe 2 months worth of training and you cannot class yourself as becoming effective in pvp until you can mostly T2 fit a T1 cruiser or battle cruiser (more for the bonuses the skills give rather than the actual T2 gear itself).

Depending what type of your pvp you are taking part in factors in as well, in FW and alliance blob warfare it matters a lot less and you have a mix of  newer players mixed with veterans but solo and extremely small gang pvp SP matters a hell of a lot as your usually fighting 40-50+ mill SP players with the very best implant sets like slaves, pre quantum rise seeing a solo extremely highly skilled player in a BS waste 5 man BC/BS gangs is surprisingly common and that's purely down to SP and in game ISK but this is going to change looking at the upcoming changes in the next expansion.

Personally I pvped since i began EVE and though I had fun the game didn't really come into its own until I hit the 8 mill SP mark and then it seems to come together. Try to stick it out and decide what you want to do in the game and try to maximize your training plan around it because it does suck at first but its worth it in the long run.

Just a small note try not to specialise to rigidly because I have seen players dedicate everything to a ship and its weapon system and then epic fail because they did not have decent electronic or navigation skills.

omg we start again whit catch up threads, do we get a thread like this every week ?

OP before say this things do u realize that u need 25 years to get all skills in eve

also do your understand that u cant CONTROL more that one ship at time
so even if u get frigate lvl 5 cruiser lvl 5 battleship lvl 5 carrier lvl 5 titan lvl 5 railguns t2 blaster t2 missiles t2, when you fit a raven for example u only use the battleship skill and and missiles t2 and it that moment all the other skills are useless

do you understand that ?

i made a image response for this kind of threads (moon language :D)

here u get the code

[URL=http://img243.imageshack.us/my.php?image=eveonlinerc3.jpg]
[IMG]http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/6717/eveonlinerc3.th.jpg[/IMG]
[/URL][URL=http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php]
[IMG]http://img243.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif[/IMG][/URL]

Originally posted by cosy

omg we start again whit catch up threads, do we get a thread like this every week ?

OP before say this things do u realize that u need 25 years to get all skills in eve

also do your understand that u cant CONTROL more that one ship at time
so even if u get frigate lvl 5 cruiser lvl 5 battleship lvl 5 carrier lvl 5 titan lvl 5 railguns t2 blaster t2 missiles t2, what you fit a raven for example u only use the battle ship skill and and missiles t2 and it that moment all the other skills are useless

do you understand what ?

i agree...and it is a fallacy. If you specialize in something, you can be very very viable in pvp. I specialized in armor tanking, and within 3 -4 months i was able to help/compete in group pvp.

Epic fail rax with small turrets, if you want to do that use a Vexor.

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Originally posted by Garkan
Epic fail rax with small turrets, if you want to do that use a Vexor.

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Epic fail on your side. A heavy tanked thorax makes a lot of damage with drones, not with its weaponry. You can use a fit with a heavy tank to outlast your opponent, while still dealing a lot of damage thanks to your drones and weapons. If you use medium neutron blasters, your grid won't be enough, if you use electrons, small neutrons are actually better. Especially as they don't suck as much cap.

Originally posted by cosy

direct link http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/6717/eveonlinerc3.jpg

 

Uhh, hate to nitpick, but drones.. are where?

Originally posted by Mentat

I can't diss on eve - it's a neat game. I also like the learning curve because it keeps people who don't have the patience to learn the game out of it. You see them in the rookie channel being douche-bags and you thank goodness for the learning curve. "glad that douchebag's going back to wow".

But, the game doesn't seem to be very noob friendly. This game rewards time put in. But, it rewards it to an extreme and with the ghost training giving the veterans an even bigger boost - there's no way for noobs to catch up. Not without YEARS of training and time.

Like I said, the game is fun but, the fact that it would take me soooo long to catch up has made me decide that this one too is not for me.

Great community, good game but, the vets of the game are rewarded too greatly in my opinion.

 

Thanks for the fun guys!

 

  Glad you liked the game,but it's a realy large misconception that having SP = win ,that is probably the main reason alot of people do not wish to try it or play it after their trial.

 It all boils down to hard direct experience and knowledge,plus if you realy realy realy want a huge SP char,you could just make a char,earn alot of isk (3-4bil),it's not that hard and buy a char ... but I recommend against it.

 Plus with the upcomming patch,smaller ships will be pretty powerfull,that gives newer players and advantage since older players skipped some of their small ship training.

 And remember that not all players will manage to train their skills in a perfect chain,they might miss out days of training,they might be training for sciene,industry ,probing etc.

 it only takes 2 months or soo of training for a particular ship to reach the same lvl as a very high SP char.

I don't care if I ever catch up in any mmo, I'm just not obsessed with being high level player.  The reason I quit playing Eve - and I'm sure the posters here are fine with that, since they like a small player base - is that it is a drag.  Boring, no atmosphere, no sense of culture or place.  Weird that people who like sci-fi like it, because it has none of the imaginative and alternative quality of good sci-fi.  It's just corporate raider culture transferred into a dull, lifeless environment.  There's no diversity, no sense of possibility.  Everyone has the exact same motivation and the exact same goals. Mine min mine.  Acquire acquire acquire. Kill kill kill. I won't trash the community (though it definitely has its share of people who are clearly compensating for something), I just don't get the appeal.  I have a job, don't need another one.

Originally posted by batolemaeus

 

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Originally posted by Garkan
Epic fail rax with small turrets, if you want to do that use a Vexor.

---

 

Epic fail on your side. A heavy tanked thorax makes a lot of damage with drones, not with its weaponry. You can use a fit with a heavy tank to outlast your opponent, while still dealing a lot of damage thanks to your drones and weapons. If you use medium neutron blasters, your grid won't be enough, if you use electrons, small neutrons are actually better. Especially as they don't suck as much cap.

Rubbish by your logic you would fit heavy neutrons onto a Megathron, you can fit a mix of ions and electrons with a 800mm plate and the DPS is superior for not much EHP loss and the ship is more faster with greater agility and can get into its optimal faster. Additionally if your going solo ECM drones are the best option

If your fitting large plates to cruisers your far far better off with a Vexor or Rupture. But your experience with the Thorax speaks for itself www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view.php

What I really liked bout EVE is the amazing community. In most any other game, its dominated by carebears and they always get their way. So pvpers gets no features

EVE is different because the devs really care about the pvp.

Hopefully Darkfall beta will launch soon for those are us that are into pvp but want to try something a little different. Because theres nothing else out there really worth any money besides EVE.

all the other developers got their nutz cut off and they jusyt clone WoW from sunup to sundown. I did think WAR was decent though

Originally posted by Mentat

I can't diss on eve - it's a neat game. I also like the learning curve because it keeps people who don't have the patience to learn the game out of it. You see them in the rookie channel being douche-bags and you thank goodness for the learning curve. "glad that douchebag's going back to wow".

But, the game doesn't seem to be very noob friendly. This game rewards time put in. But, it rewards it to an extreme and with the ghost training giving the veterans an even bigger boost - there's no way for noobs to catch up. Not without YEARS of training and time.

Like I said, the game is fun but, the fact that it would take me soooo long to catch up has made me decide that this one too is not for me.

Great community, good game but, the vets of the game are rewarded too greatly in my opinion.

 

Thanks for the fun guys!

 

On topic I think you kind of missed it. You actually have an advantage over vets. you can pick the new bloodlines- Caldari Achura or Amarr Cyberknight and earn skillpoints faster then they do

See, the vets in the game earn SPs slower cause they stuck with high +CHA and they cant offload it

New players can pick low CHA builds and earn SPs fast. You can specialize and get into a good ship quick like

You just really needed a vet to take you under their wing and show you the ropes. looks like you got lost in the shuffle man

I at least stuck it out and reached veterancy of a sorts I suppose. But u are correct in one aspect only from my point of view (my opinion)- the bar always rises for what a VET is. I believe a true vet is 80 mil SPs now.

So only in technical terms does the bar keep raising but I could be wrong

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Originally posted by Garkan
But your experience with the Thorax speaks for itself www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view.php

---

You must be pretty desparate if you need to dig through tons of mails on battleclinic, find a lossmail from '07, and post it here to try to reinforce your point.

Obviously, you do not understand one of the basic principles of eve which makes it a lot more newbie friendly and diverse. Every ship, no matter what role it has predefined through its bonuses, can be fitted in very different ways. There is no one uber setup, and no one uber ship. Especially cruiser sized ships can often gain a lot from fitting undersized weaponry by freeing up grid to spend elsewhere. Neglecting dps and improving your tanking ability vastly does a great job in small scale pvp where fights usually last a lot longer, and tanking ability often counts a lot more than pure gank.

Having that said, I'm glad you mentioned the Vexor, which has less armor, less hull, one less lowslot, and lacks the additional turret hardpoint the Thorax has. Additionally, you are conveniently ignoring the reduction of mwd cap penalty on the Thorax, the greater overall cap of the Thorax, and the higher top speed. Of course, the higher tracking of small guns escapes you just as well as the vastly reduced cap use. (small neutrons suck less than 60% than medium neutrons)

But let's not stop here, you also make a terrible comparison to Megas fitting undersized weaponry. Talk about comparing apples to oranges - or, in this case, a battleship that has enough pg to fit neutrons/ions and a few 1600rt+mwd to a cruiser barely having the grid to even support a full rack of ions and mwd..

Try all the logic you want it doesn't change the truth that undersized turrets on a gank boat is fail, and the logic does apply to the megathron example because by your very logic it scales and undersized guns use less cap and less fitting so you could fit a bigger tank on your mega with heavy neutrons than a mega neutron mega with better tracking and less cap use.

You also completely ignore the fact that the greatest proportion of the Thorax DPS comes from its guns, whereas the Vexors primary DPS comes from its drones, if you fit undersized guns on the Vexor it suffers less precisely because it has less turrets and you rely on the drones, never mind the fact that despite having one slot less you have much greater versatility in damage type.

Cap is a none issue in plated buffer cruiser fits because they don't last long enough for cap to be a problem.

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Originally posted by Garkan
But your experience with the Thorax speaks for itself www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view.php

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Dear fellow MMORPG.com readers:

You know those idiots on the WOW forums who link other player armories and say things like "nice arena rating noob" and such? Yea, EVE has them too, except they're 27 instead of 13.

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Originally posted by Garkan
Try all the logic you want

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I must admit, this sentence left me staggered for a while. Wow.

Anyways, after this sig-worthy quote..

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Originally posted by batolemaeus
Obviously, you do not understand one of the basic principles of eve which makes it a lot more newbie friendly and diverse. Every ship, no matter what role it has predefined through its bonuses, can be fitted in very different ways.

---

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Originally posted by Garkan
undersized turrets on a gank boat is fail

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Q.E.D.

Originally posted by Queinai

 

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Originally posted by Garkan
But your experience with the Thorax speaks for itself www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view.php

---

 

Dear fellow MMORPG.com readers:

You know those idiots on the WOW forums who link other player armories and say things like "nice arena rating noob" and such? Yea, EVE has them too, except they're 27 instead of 13.

Good Post, would read again

Well just to say,

A) I really enjoy eve's community - nice level of maturity and coolness for the most part

B) space game - cool space ships etc.

C) I know you guys are saying sp doesn't matter that much but, I know damn good and well that if I were a 10-50mil sp player, I would dominate

D) there should be something offered to people who subscribe for the first time to help with this "catch up" such as 2 or 3 bonus skill lvl's or something.

You guys make some valid arguments and I am paying to play now.... the community of the game is winning me over yet again even here in the forums. Thanks for being cool and not being a bunch of douches (like the wow fans)

Ok, gonna try to stick it out - the only reason I mentioned "catch up" which apparently you vets hate to hear is because I've been ganked a few times - once in 1.0 sec in deadspace doing a mission - luckily it was a cool pirate and after I told him he was f'n my gaming experience by ganking me - he took the time to explain a lot of things to me about the game. He even gave me part of the money he stole from my mission (overlord loot) to help repurchase my ship

Anywayz you guys rock and eve is a good game... Just didn't / don't like feeling like every 1 v 1 battle I come across I gotta run from it if possible ...

Originally posted by Mentat

C) I know you guys are saying sp doesn't matter that much but, I know damn good and well that if I were a 10-50mil sp player, I would dominate

I can tell you as a almost 50 mil SP combat pilot who is far from being a novice at the controls of a ship that Nobody dominates by themselves regardless of SP, You'll notice all the threads are about groups dominating all the SP in the world won't help you against a well oiled group of players playing off the strengths of a few ships.

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Originally posted by Mentat
C) I know you guys are saying sp doesn't matter that much but, I know damn good and well that if I were a 10-50mil sp player, I would dominate

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There is always a bigger fish. But honestly, no. I don't dominate either, and i have quite a few more sp than that.
When you reach you 10 mil, you will notice a lot of areas you'd need to improve to "dominate", and the same will happen with 20, 30, 40, 50 mil sp... ;)

God I'm sick of newbies who think there is one and only one way to fit a ship.