Originally posted by SwampRob

I think the OP's frustration stems from the fact that MMOs aren't what he wants them to be.    It's not the players that upset him, it's the fact many MMOs themselves let the players play in a manner he feels is inappropriate for an MMO.    There's nothing wrong with that opinion.

But....

Saying that anyone who does not want to play in the style that he feels is the 'correct' way to play shouldn't be playing MMOs is wrong.     Despite popular opinion, most devs (and investors) are not stupid.   They know that often the best way to bring in maximum dollars is to appeal to the widest possible audience.   So it is not wrong of them to do so, it maximizes their profits.   

Some of like to group, and some like to solo, and some just like to spend much of their time hanging out in cities, chatting, working the auction house, crafting, etc.   All of these are valid ways to play an MMO.   Let's be clear, there never has been any part of the definition of MMO that means forced grouping.     There are lots of ways to play or, or interact with an MMO and other players that have nothing to do with grouping.

What bothers me about some of the opinions though, is that the pro forced grouping crowd strives to remove options from other players.    Why?    Do you think that by doing so, that those who would rather solo will then group with you?   I think this would cause many players to simply find another game, I know I would.   But do you really want to group with others who are only there because they feel they have to be and not want to be?  How much fun will it really be to team with resentful people?

For myself, I believe that there should be different kinds of MMOs, that cater to different playstyles.    I play many hours a week in both single player games and MMOs, and MMOs will always offer a sense of being alive that a single player game never can.   Despite that, I'd prefer if an MMO let me see every bit of content, every dungeon, every boss, and have a chance at any and every magic item in the game without once forcing me to group.     That's just my style, and it's no better or worse than anyone else's (except for those who live to grief, those people can diaf).

I am not anti-grouping, I'm anti-forcing.   I do feel like grouping sometimes and have no desire to see the option to group removed, I just don't want it as the only option.

 

 

You are so right.

Originally posted by SwampRob  

I think the OP's frustration stems from the fact that MMOs aren't what he wants them to be.    It's not the players that upset him, it's the fact many MMOs themselves let the players play in a manner he feels is inappropriate for an MMO.    There's nothing wrong with that opinion.

Thank god no sane developer is going to listen to the OP. He can rave and rant all he wants.

Just because it is an MMO, that doesn't mean people HAVE to group if they aren't inclined to do so.

I never group with strangers any more, because after about 8 years of playing MMOs I can't be bothered to go through the irritations of grouping any more.  I don't want to split my XP with anyone, I don't want to share the loot and go through the interminable bitching if someone gets Item X when someone else doesn't.  I don't want to waste time typing with someone who will be history 5 minutes after we part company.  I don't even bother keeping a Friends list.  Why bother?

I happen to LIKE soloing, and take the point of view that if I can manage a quest on my own, why do I need anyone else tagging along?  If the quest is too difficult to solo - and plenty of them are - there are plenty of other quests elsewhere that I can solo.  I pay my money and make my own fun purely to suit myself, and if grouping floats your boat that's fine by me - just let me get on with my soloing in peace.

Originally posted by Aetherial

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by SwampRob  

I think the OP's frustration stems from the fact that MMOs aren't what he wants them to be.    It's not the players that upset him, it's the fact many MMOs themselves let the players play in a manner he feels is inappropriate for an MMO.    There's nothing wrong with that opinion.

 

Thank god no sane developer is going to listen to the OP. He can rave and rant all he wants.

 

Don't worry, I am sure the quality of your contribution to a discussion will improve as you grow up, and as your reading comprehension improves.

 

That really was uncalled for and didn't add anything to the thread.

Simple fact is the OP feels a certain way... other people here may feel another way.

Far as I know none of us has the power to make a developer do anything.   They do what they think will make them the most money and that is pretty much that.

The problem isn't solo content, it's the fact that WoW really f'ed up the genre by making a single player game that people have to pay a monthly payment for, and people actually bought it!  Millions of people!

Now every other developer sees this success and tries to copy it, except, WoW didn't do it right.  What they should have done was make grouping much more rewarding then solo gameplay.  Have the ability to solo, but make grouping with others a much more rewarding experience.  More rare loot, more XP gained per kill, etc.

Just for the record, WoW was the most boring game I have ever played in my life, I don't like any Blizzard games, the fact that they have so many loyal followers boggles my mind and makes me wonder what the hell is wrong with me for not jumping on the Blizzard bandwagon.

The entire MMO genre is regressing to a point that in a few years we will just log into the game, press a button, and be instantly rewarded with XP and money.  If the horrible chat systems in some of the recent MMO games (TR, WAR, AoC) is any indication of where things are going, those of us who like to play MMO games for the community aspect are not going to have any place to go.

In DAoC you would log in, see where your friends/guildmates were hunting, run to their location, join their group and grind mobs for hours.  Why was this more fun for me then the games today?  Because I was actually INTERACTING with other people, talking to them, finding out how their family is doing, you know, having a conversation.  That is what this genre was always supposed to be about, joining up with friends to take down some monsters and kill a couple of hours.

Now it's just, log in, go do quests by yourself, maybe have some generic chit-chat with some guild members about the game.  Find a quest you can't do by yourself, create a party to kill that 1 monster without ever talking to any of the people that join your group, then as soon as the monster's dead, disband and go back to your soloing.

I cannot play a MMO game any more unless my real life friends are logged in. The mind numbing bordem of no one talking to each other kills the game for me.   During the days of DAoC I could safely say that I could spend hours just talking to strangers in a dungeon.  I have not had that type of community experience since WoW hit the market.

Why anyone would want to pay a monthly payment to play a single player RPG with a chat system makes no sense to me.  If I wanted that I could just play NWN with AIM running in the background and save the $15 a month.

I guess people with my viewpoint are the minority now that the people who enjoy WoW-like gameplay rule the market.

 To the OP ....I dont think I can agree with your statement.I soloed a alot playing AC 1 and it is considered a  fairly hard game as long as you dont macro your levels.I think putting flashing yellow icons above quest NPC's,Dumbing down games to make the console crowd happy,Everyone wanting to copy the  WOW game,games where you hit max level in 2 weeks easy playing instead of years on one character before macro and exp chains,Taking away skill from combat and adding instancing , cartooney graphics,Taking away free for all PK ing,adding a sett class formula where you have to follow instead of skills and I could go on and on is what I think is ruining the current MMorpgs

Originally posted by SwampRob

I think the OP's frustration stems from the fact that MMOs aren't what he wants them to be.    It's not the players that upset him, it's the fact many MMOs themselves let the players play in a manner he feels is inappropriate for an MMO.    There's nothing wrong with that opinion.

But....

Saying that anyone who does not want to play in the style that he feels is the 'correct' way to play shouldn't be playing MMOs is wrong.     Despite popular opinion, most devs (and investors) are not stupid.   They know that often the best way to bring in maximum dollars is to appeal to the widest possible audience.   So it is not wrong of them to do so, it maximizes their profits.   

Some of like to group, and some like to solo, and some just like to spend much of their time hanging out in cities, chatting, working the auction house, crafting, etc.   All of these are valid ways to play an MMO.   Let's be clear, there never has been any part of the definition of MMO that means forced grouping.     There are lots of ways to play or, or interact with an MMO and other players that have nothing to do with grouping.

What bothers me about some of the opinions though, is that the pro forced grouping crowd strives to remove options from other players.    Why?    Do you think that by doing so, that those who would rather solo will then group with you?   I think this would cause many players to simply find another game, I know I would.   But do you really want to group with others who are only there because they feel they have to be and not want to be?  How much fun will it really be to team with resentful people?

For myself, I believe that there should be different kinds of MMOs, that cater to different playstyles.    I play many hours a week in both single player games and MMOs, and MMOs will always offer a sense of being alive that a single player game never can.   Despite that, I'd prefer if an MMO let me see every bit of content, every dungeon, every boss, and have a chance at any and every magic item in the game without once forcing me to group.     That's just my style, and it's no better or worse than anyone else's (except for those who live to grief, those people can diaf).

I am not anti-grouping, I'm anti-forcing.   I do feel like grouping sometimes and have no desire to see the option to group removed, I just don't want it as the only option.

 

 

Because it ruins the grouping game if you can solo. Has nothing to do with wanting to force you to play in a group, if you like to solo.

Has to do with designing a game that is good for grouping, which means bad for soloing. DOn't care if you play the game or not, just want it to be a good grouping game. Which means you will say it's bad for soloing.

Think of it like this. I want to play football, and you want to design a football game so you can play it solo. That's going to ruin the team game, right?

Can you really design a foot ball game so it can be played solo, and it's a challenging team sport at the same time? If you change the game so it can be soloed, it's not a fun team sport anymore.

I don't want to make you play football if you don't like it, but football is a team sport, you can't play it solo, so I can't change it for you to make you happy. I want to play football, not some solo game with a ball.

MMOGs can be ruined by accomodating something like soloing or it can be a benefit to the game, depending on how the developers implement the different parts of the game.  No doubt the mechanics screw up group play in some MMOGs, while in others solo and group play can coexist well.

I enjoyed both soloing and grouping in DAOC, but if a game made every encounter easy when soloing or something similar then it's pretty clear that group play is effected negatively by that.

Most major game companies are so PC nowadays that you might as well be having a pillow fight or something, no risks are taken anymore - it's a weakness of character that we've got to get beyond socially.  People need to man up and be willing to take risks, game designers included.  So games end up with weakly implemented gameplay, making it easy for everyone.  It's a whole lot of lame, with no fun.  Political correctness is part of the cause.  Mmm, social philosophy.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by SwampRob

I think the OP's frustration stems from the fact that MMOs aren't what he wants them to be.    It's not the players that upset him, it's the fact many MMOs themselves let the players play in a manner he feels is inappropriate for an MMO.    There's nothing wrong with that opinion.

But....

Saying that anyone who does not want to play in the style that he feels is the 'correct' way to play shouldn't be playing MMOs is wrong.     Despite popular opinion, most devs (and investors) are not stupid.   They know that often the best way to bring in maximum dollars is to appeal to the widest possible audience.   So it is not wrong of them to do so, it maximizes their profits.   

Some of like to group, and some like to solo, and some just like to spend much of their time hanging out in cities, chatting, working the auction house, crafting, etc.   All of these are valid ways to play an MMO.   Let's be clear, there never has been any part of the definition of MMO that means forced grouping.     There are lots of ways to play or, or interact with an MMO and other players that have nothing to do with grouping.

What bothers me about some of the opinions though, is that the pro forced grouping crowd strives to remove options from other players.    Why?    Do you think that by doing so, that those who would rather solo will then group with you?   I think this would cause many players to simply find another game, I know I would.   But do you really want to group with others who are only there because they feel they have to be and not want to be?  How much fun will it really be to team with resentful people?

For myself, I believe that there should be different kinds of MMOs, that cater to different playstyles.    I play many hours a week in both single player games and MMOs, and MMOs will always offer a sense of being alive that a single player game never can.   Despite that, I'd prefer if an MMO let me see every bit of content, every dungeon, every boss, and have a chance at any and every magic item in the game without once forcing me to group.     That's just my style, and it's no better or worse than anyone else's (except for those who live to grief, those people can diaf).

I am not anti-grouping, I'm anti-forcing.   I do feel like grouping sometimes and have no desire to see the option to group removed, I just don't want it as the only option.

 

 

 

Because it ruins the grouping game if you can solo. Has nothing to do with wanting to force you to play in a group, if you like to solo.

Has to do with designing a game that is good for grouping, which means bad for soloing. DOn't care if you play the game or not, just want it to be a good grouping game. Which means you will say it's bad for soloing.

Think of it like this. I want to play football, and you want to design a football game so you can play it solo. That's going to ruin the team game, right?

Can you really design a foot ball game so it can be played solo, and it's a challenging team sport at the same time? If you change the game so it can be soloed, it's not a fun team sport anymore.

I don't want to make you play football if you don't like it, but football is a team sport, you can't play it solo, so I can't change it for you to make you happy. I want to play football, not some solo game with a ball.

This is spot on. as more and more people solo, there are less and less people left to group with. While I dont think solo content should be eliminated, I think it should give so much less of a return than  grouping that its almost pointless to solo as compared to grouping.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by SwampRob

I think the OP's frustration stems from the fact that MMOs aren't what he wants them to be.    It's not the players that upset him, it's the fact many MMOs themselves let the players play in a manner he feels is inappropriate for an MMO.    There's nothing wrong with that opinion.

But....

Saying that anyone who does not want to play in the style that he feels is the 'correct' way to play shouldn't be playing MMOs is wrong.     Despite popular opinion, most devs (and investors) are not stupid.   They know that often the best way to bring in maximum dollars is to appeal to the widest possible audience.   So it is not wrong of them to do so, it maximizes their profits.   

Some of like to group, and some like to solo, and some just like to spend much of their time hanging out in cities, chatting, working the auction house, crafting, etc.   All of these are valid ways to play an MMO.   Let's be clear, there never has been any part of the definition of MMO that means forced grouping.     There are lots of ways to play or, or interact with an MMO and other players that have nothing to do with grouping.

What bothers me about some of the opinions though, is that the pro forced grouping crowd strives to remove options from other players.    Why?    Do you think that by doing so, that those who would rather solo will then group with you?   I think this would cause many players to simply find another game, I know I would.   But do you really want to group with others who are only there because they feel they have to be and not want to be?  How much fun will it really be to team with resentful people?

For myself, I believe that there should be different kinds of MMOs, that cater to different playstyles.    I play many hours a week in both single player games and MMOs, and MMOs will always offer a sense of being alive that a single player game never can.   Despite that, I'd prefer if an MMO let me see every bit of content, every dungeon, every boss, and have a chance at any and every magic item in the game without once forcing me to group.     That's just my style, and it's no better or worse than anyone else's (except for those who live to grief, those people can diaf).

I am not anti-grouping, I'm anti-forcing.   I do feel like grouping sometimes and have no desire to see the option to group removed, I just don't want it as the only option.

 

 

 

Because it ruins the grouping game if you can solo. Has nothing to do with wanting to force you to play in a group, if you like to solo.

Has to do with designing a game that is good for grouping, which means bad for soloing. DOn't care if you play the game or not, just want it to be a good grouping game. Which means you will say it's bad for soloing.

Think of it like this. I want to play football, and you want to design a football game so you can play it solo. That's going to ruin the team game, right?

Can you really design a foot ball game so it can be played solo, and it's a challenging team sport at the same time? If you change the game so it can be soloed, it's not a fun team sport anymore.

I don't want to make you play football if you don't like it, but football is a team sport, you can't play it solo, so I can't change it for you to make you happy. I want to play football, not some solo game with a ball.

I understand your point.    And truthfully, there's nothing wrong with designing an MMO to be that way, but, it's wrong to say all MMOs should be that way just because they are MMOs.    I've no doubt that having an MMO that made it difficult to solo in places and impossible in others would attract certain types of players.   I would guess, though, that with today's online gaming being what it is, it would attract a smaller crowd than most.     When DDO launched, it was like this, and many begged for more solo content, and slowly Turbine gave it to them.    This was a decision made to keep subscriptions, to keep the cash flow going so the servers could stay on.

To use your analogy, an MMO doesn't have to be like football.   It can be like basketball, which can be fun with a team of 5 or 1 on 1.     Simply put, forcing grouping on players means removing options from the game.   

I must disagree with the notion that if you make something soloable, then it will, by default, be bad for a group.    I think games can be designed to be good for both, and I'd use CoH as an example.   It scales wonderfully, with both the difficulty and the exp ramping up based on the number of players on the team.

So, do I think all MMOs should accomodate soloing?   No, but I think it would be in their best interests to do so.   I do strongly believe that there is more than one way to define an MMO though, and that 'must group' is not part of that definition.

If MMO accomodate to the soloer, then that MMO is destroyed because people won't group, or if they group they won't give a damn about other people because they won't need them. An MMO has to be group oriented. If not, it's just a MG (Multiplayer Game).

Originally posted by Aetherial

Originally posted by rikilii

I'm sure someone has said this, but I don't have the patience to read the whole thread, so I'll say it again:

 

This is total BS.

Any game can have plenty of solo-friendly content, and still have plenty of group content.

 

WoW is a perfect example.  You can solo your way to 70, but you'll miss out on tons of fun stuff on the way, and you won't get any of the best gear.

 

Well it is nice that you can express your opinin so politely.

You should go debate your loot statement with the pro-solo'ers who believe they deserve raid-quality loot because they pay their money also ... and claim that they, as solo'ers put the same effort into the game.

I'm sorry, does everyone who solos demand this? I don't really see anywhere where anyone has demanded this.

And besides, since challenges for solo or even small groups are not only different but also have their own difficulties (or can) why can't they have "different" "loot"?

Originally posted by SwampRob

 

I understand your point.    And truthfully, there's nothing wrong with designing an MMO to be that way, but, it's wrong to say all MMOs should be that way just because they are MMOs.    I've no doubt that having an MMO that made it difficult to solo in places and impossible in others would attract certain types of players.   I would guess, though, that with today's online gaming being what it is, it would attract a smaller crowd than most.     When DDO launched, it was like this, and many begged for more solo content, and slowly Turbine gave it to them.    This was a decision made to keep subscriptions, to keep the cash flow going so the servers could stay on.

To use your analogy, an MMO doesn't have to be like football.   It can be like basketball, which can be fun with a team of 5 or 1 on 1.     Simply put, forcing grouping on players means removing options from the game.   

I must disagree with the notion that if you make something soloable, then it will, by default, be bad for a group.    I think games can be designed to be good for both, and I'd use CoH as an example.   It scales wonderfully, with both the difficulty and the exp ramping up based on the number of players on the team.

So, do I think all MMOs should accomodate soloing?   No, but I think it would be in their best interests to do so.   I do strongly believe that there is more than one way to define an MMO though, and that 'must group' is not part of that definition.

What swamprob said.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by SwampRob

 

I understand your point.    And truthfully, there's nothing wrong with designing an MMO to be that way, but, it's wrong to say all MMOs should be that way just because they are MMOs.    I've no doubt that having an MMO that made it difficult to solo in places and impossible in others would attract certain types of players.   I would guess, though, that with today's online gaming being what it is, it would attract a smaller crowd than most.     When DDO launched, it was like this, and many begged for more solo content, and slowly Turbine gave it to them.    This was a decision made to keep subscriptions, to keep the cash flow going so the servers could stay on.

To use your analogy, an MMO doesn't have to be like football.   It can be like basketball, which can be fun with a team of 5 or 1 on 1.     Simply put, forcing grouping on players means removing options from the game.   

I must disagree with the notion that if you make something soloable, then it will, by default, be bad for a group.    I think games can be designed to be good for both, and I'd use CoH as an example.   It scales wonderfully, with both the difficulty and the exp ramping up based on the number of players on the team.

So, do I think all MMOs should accomodate soloing?   No, but I think it would be in their best interests to do so.   I do strongly believe that there is more than one way to define an MMO though, and that 'must group' is not part of that definition.

 

What swamprob said.

Sorry, CoH doesn't satisfy my need for a good grouping game. Yes I played it, yes it was fun, yes you can find groups, and YES the solo friendly aspect ruins the potential for it to be a great grouping game.

No, I don't think ALL MMORPGs should be for grouping, but neitehr should ALL MMORPGs be for solo play.

I would put CoH firmly in the solo friendly category. If you like to solo, sure you think the game is great, and you think it does a great job for being a group game, but it's completely mediocre in terms of being a good grouping game, IMO.

The scaling feature that you are applauding is the reason it sucks as a good grouping game.

To use your analogy, sure, you can make an MMORPG like anything you want. It doesn't even have to have a game, it can be like Second Life.

Sure, you can make it a 1vs1 solo friendly game, like basketball. But if you are playing 1v1 on the basket ball court while I want to play an actual team game of basketball, you're going to screw up my basketball game.

No, not every MMORPG has to be like football, but that's the game I want to play, and no you can't play both games on teh same field at the same time. It won't work.

What current MMO accommodates soloing?  WoW -allows- soloing almost as much as any MMO ever has perhaps, but you can't make a decent character without entering BGs/arenas and/or instances - for those you need a group (or will end up in a group).  You can't even get several key recipes or high end ingredients for some of the crafting systems without BOP instance drops.  WAR and AoC pretend to allow soloing but both shut that crap down at the high end or before.

The simple fact is that if most people are not forced to group for gear/xp, they will not bother most of the time.  So why are games forcing us to group if we really don't want to?  And no - an MMO without grouping mechanics would not make the sky fall or turn us all into introverts (any more than we already are in forced grouping games).

Originally posted by Fennris

What current MMO accommodates soloing?  WoW -allows- soloing almost as much as any MMO ever has perhaps, but you can't make a decent character without entering BGs/arenas and/or instances - for those you need a group (or will end up in a group).  You can't even get several key recipes or high end ingredients for some of the crafting systems without BOP instance drops.  WAR and AoC pretend to allow soloing but both shut that crap down at the high end or before.

The simple fact is that if most people are not forced to group for gear/xp, they will not bother most of the time.  So why are games forcing us to group if we really don't want to?  And no - an MMO without grouping mechanics would not make the sky fall or turn us all into introverts (any more than we already are in forced grouping games).

You're never forced to play a game. Nobody is holding a gun to your head making you log on. Either you think it's a fun game, and you play it, or you don't like it and you don't play it.

I like games that are challenging for groups. If you don't really need to group, then it's not challenging for a group, and that takes the fun out of the game for me.

I'd never want to force you to play that game if you didn't like it. I would certainly want developers to make a solo friendly game for you to play.

Some people call games like WoW solo friendly, because they dont' play the "end game" of many MMORPGs. Once it gets to the raiding stage of the game, they just quit and play something else. So for those people, the 1-70 game in WoW is solo friendly, and not a good grouping game.

I love ot play in groups in the early leveling game, but don't care for raiding. If there's lots of grouping in the "end game" that's pretty irrelevant to me, since I won't be playing that part of the game.

Because I have such a hard time finding a group that isn't full of assholes, I tend to play most MMOs solo.  To me, the MM aspect for me is being surrounded by a real world, and not just NPCs.  It's also fun to chat with other people while playing.

I don't mind you (incorrectly) thinking that allowing solo play ruins MMOs, because of one oft-used feature: dynamic rewards.  Some MMOs will award you with more experience and/or better loot while in a group.

Personally, I'd like to see a game that scales between group challenges and solo challenges.  Even if it was only used in instanced-quests/dungeons, I think that would give everybody a way to enjoy the game without harming somebody else's fun.

<<You're never forced to play a game. Nobody is holding a gun to your head making you log on. Either you think it's a fun game, and you play it, or you don't like it and you don't play it.>>

You're  right, no one's pointing a gun at my head (whew).  Thanks for the info...

To force people to adopt to a play style they don´t like sounds like a bad formula to me. You should be encouraged to play the way you find most fun, not be rewarded to do stuff you don´t like.

What I do not understand is the argument that "most people want to group, but they don´t if they are not rewarded richly for it". Do they really want to group then, or do they just want grouping as a good way to gain XP more quickly?

My idea is that you should encourage those who want to play in team by not punishing them for it (compared to solo play). XP gain should be based on how difficult a task is, and how hard you have to work for it, and not have anything to do with grouping or solo play.

To interact with other players can be done in other ways than force them to hold each others hands in combat. To share the game world with other players can have other purposes than to split them up in groups of 5, 6 or 8. When you have a game world you share with other people, you feel that you are in a living environment and you can compare yourself to, and compete with your fellow players. Trading, crafting, and similar stuff cant be done in a meaningful way if you "live" in a virtual world populated with NPC:s only. To those who mean that if you don´t want to play in team, you can play a single player game - if you just want to group up with a handful of other players and kill stuff, why don´t you go play Diablo or another ordinary multi player game? To me a MMO can be a virtual world, and it should be enough room for any play style.

Originally posted by Snipan

To force people to adopt to a play style they don´t like sounds like a bad formula to me. You should be encouraged to play the way you find most fun, not be rewarded to do stuff you don´t like.

What I do not understand is the argument that "most people want to group, but they don´t if they are not rewarded richly for it". Do they really want to group then, or do they just want grouping as a good way to gain XP more quickly?

You are entirely missing the point. They really want to group if it's a challenge. If you can do the same thing solo, there's no challenge, so no reason to group.

Some local restuarants have trivia contests, and the winners get a prize. I'm sure there's on in your area. Do people enjoy playing, or do they just want the prize?

Would the game be just as fun, if you gave everyone the answers? But you don't have to look at the answers if you don't want to.

That's the choice you're giving me. Hey, the game is still just as fun, you don't have to look at the answers if you don't want to, but everyone else can if they need to. Aren't you having just as much fun, or were you just playing the game for the prize?

No, I wasn't playing for the prize, I was playing because it was fun, but now that you've given me and everyone else the answsers, it's not much of a game is it?

That's what the game is like if you can just do the same thing solo as you can in a group. you just gave me all the answers. Sure, I could make myself not look at the answers, and lose because everyone else can look at the answers, but what's the point in that?

I want a good grouping game. I could care less if "most people want to group " or  most people want to solo. If you can solo all the content, why spend time putting together a group? It's pointless, because the challenge is gone.

I don't want to force you to group. I want you to go and play a solo friendly game. That's fine. There isn't room for both styles. If you can solo, you've ruined my grouping game. That means there's only room for YOUR play style.