Was reading another thread about how WOW was a polished launch and I have to admit that in comparison to some launches it wasn't too bad, BUT the game it is today is not what it started out as (in regards to both fun and stability).

Memories are always better because we tend to forget negative feelings and experiences and focus on the good.  WOW by no means set any standards in gaming, it just became mega popular and is therefore cloned.  Post-WOW games don't tend to get much of a chance because people want perfection right out the gate, WOW released on top and remains there, making it that much harder to give anyone new a chance.

Would we have patiently nursed a 2003 launch of AOC along as it worked toward smooth play?

Would WAR have gotten much success being DAOC was still heavy in 2004?

Could WOW have knocked down old school SWG or would it have been like Guild Wars and only steal a few?

What I'm getting at here is I'm of the opinion that gaming needed a breakout product and WOW for the most part won because it was simple and with low system requirements - not to mention the huge Blizzard following.  Everyone played.  I think EQ2 lost because most computers weren't ready for it system wise, people were flocking away from SWG, EQ and DAOC were stagnating, and the MMO world was ripe.

Was there another game that could've/should've been the breakout game, and if so would it have gotten WOW's numbers?

I look forward to some thoughtful responses.

Certainly WoW benefitted from being in the right place at the right time, I don't think anyone will argue that.  However I think WoW would have been a success even if it was launched today and I don't think that any of these other games would have done as well as WoW has done.  Perhaps LoTRO or War or maybe Guild Wars which are all pretty solid would have had a chance to capture a larger audience, but the others have/had problems that caused them to be unpopular in my humble opinion, it had little to do with WoW.  Whether that was high system requirements, poor performance, bugs, lack of content or whatever, they were missing key components.  Most people have at least tried LoTRO and War and even EQ2, but end up coming back to WoW.  I don't think that's just a coincidence.

If these games came out before UO, it would have been a time of few other options.  Therefore, we would have been much more likely to put up with problems.  To bad for them and their fanatics, this is not the current marketplace.  We have many options when it comes to mmorpgs.  As consumers, we have the luxury of not having to put up with these issues.

Now devs need to learn that times have changed and the consumers are as willing to give them a pass on their game problems and issues.

AOC-Lol, it would stay a failure.
WAR-Same as AOC.
SWG-Now this would be in WoW's position, but of course, they would still nuke the game down with NGE.
WoW would probably become like Vanguard, a decent MMO but still in the shadows of EQ2, SWG and LOTRO.

The question is really..

If WoW was released today?

Or is it..

If the other games were released prior to 2004?

First off.. there weren't be such a rush with these products to capture a larget market segment.   WoW brought in 1.5million americans and 1.5 million europeans.  The asian market was already there, playing lineage, where as the american market was playing Warcraft and Starcraft, as well as EQ, UO, AC and the like. 

AoC?  Nothing would have set it apart, the terrible launch would have made it stumble.

WAR? Might have been challanged WoW with 1 million subs if the classes were more balanced.

SWG?  Still too nich.  SWG was released in 2003?  So.. I take it WoW brought you into the genre.. you got bored and starting looking around.

Originally posted by Random_mage

The question is really..

If WoW was released today?

Or is it..

If the other games were released prior to 2004?

First off.. there weren't be such a rush with these products to capture a larget market segment.   WoW brought in 1.5million americans and 1.5 million europeans.  The asian market was already there, playing lineage, where as the american market was playing Warcraft and Starcraft, as well as EQ, UO, AC and the like. 

AoC?  Nothing would have set it apart, the terrible launch would have made it stumble.

WAR? Might have been challanged WoW with 1 million subs if the classes were more balanced.

SWG?  Still too nich.  SWG was released in 2003?  So.. I take it WoW brought you into the genre.. you got bored and starting looking around.

I'm not certain there was a single, pointed question asked here...more of an attempt to just sit around and BS about games instead of thrusting epeen in and out of threads trying to sound manly about the fact we're game players and not the characters we portray.  I'm a little worried that I failed after having read your response.

I'll agree AOC was sloppy, but then again so was AO and eventually it garnered a respectable following.  Had WOW not been on the scene then who's to say it wouldn't have dug in as the big boy of fantasy? WAR has no imbalances any more than anyone else - it'll succeed nicely once the instant gratification crowd has left. 

SWG - Too nich, I hardly agree.  I'm sure more people have heard of Endor than Ironforge.  On a side note, I'm entirely certain who you're addressing with the "WOW brought you into the genre" comment, but I can assure you that's not accurate about myself.  Having said that, I don't see where anyone alludes to SWG as having a 2003 release.  I don't refer to some of the old school games because very few can relate to them anymore...which is the frustration that compelled me to begin this thread - "WOW released very polished".

Originally posted by clatonious

Originally posted by Random_mage

The question is really..

If WoW was released today?

Or is it..

If the other games were released prior to 2004?

First off.. there weren't be such a rush with these products to capture a larget market segment.   WoW brought in 1.5million americans and 1.5 million europeans.  The asian market was already there, playing lineage, where as the american market was playing Warcraft and Starcraft, as well as EQ, UO, AC and the like. 

AoC?  Nothing would have set it apart, the terrible launch would have made it stumble.

WAR? Might have been challanged WoW with 1 million subs if the classes were more balanced.

SWG?  Still too nich.  SWG was released in 2003?  So.. I take it WoW brought you into the genre.. you got bored and starting looking around.

 

I'm not certain there was a single, pointed question asked here...more of an attempt to just sit around and BS about games instead of thrusting epeen in and out of threads trying to sound manly about the fact we're game players and not the characters we portray.  I'm a little worried that I failed after having read your response.

I'll agree AOC was sloppy, but then again so was AO and eventually it garnered a respectable following.  Had WOW not been on the scene then who's to say it wouldn't have dug in as the big boy of fantasy? WAR has no imbalances any more than anyone else - it'll succeed nicely once the instant gratification crowd has left. 

SWG - Too nich, I hardly agree.  I'm sure more people have heard of Endor than Ironforge.  On a side note, I'm entirely certain who you're addressing with the "WOW brought you into the genre" comment, but I can assure you that's not accurate about myself.  Having said that, I don't see where anyone alludes to SWG as having a 2003 release.  I don't refer to some of the old school games because very few can relate to them anymore...which is the frustration that compelled me to begin this thread - "WOW released very polished".

 

Your kidding about the SWG thing.. right??  SWG was released June 26th, 2003.  And..  WoW was released Nov 23rd, 2004.  Therefor your question of "What is WoW was released after these 3 games" You'd see what WoW was INFACT released after SWG.  SWG is too niche, as illistated by their player base never growing to over 300k, where as EQ grew to over 500k.   I take it you aren't trying to pick a fight with me, because that.. just doesn't make sense..

But..

AO didn't top 60k players (all this info is gathered from MMOGcharts)  AO was a successful game for it's time.  Too many people measure the success of their games based on WoW.  Which, in itself, was a freak of nature.. that didn't just pull in the MMORPG grounds, but the RTS crowds.

Originally posted by Random_mage

Originally posted by clatonious

Originally posted by Random_mage

The question is really..

If WoW was released today?

Or is it..

If the other games were released prior to 2004?

First off.. there weren't be such a rush with these products to capture a larget market segment.   WoW brought in 1.5million americans and 1.5 million europeans.  The asian market was already there, playing lineage, where as the american market was playing Warcraft and Starcraft, as well as EQ, UO, AC and the like. 

AoC?  Nothing would have set it apart, the terrible launch would have made it stumble.

WAR? Might have been challanged WoW with 1 million subs if the classes were more balanced.

SWG?  Still too nich.  SWG was released in 2003?  So.. I take it WoW brought you into the genre.. you got bored and starting looking around.

 

I'm not certain there was a single, pointed question asked here...more of an attempt to just sit around and BS about games instead of thrusting epeen in and out of threads trying to sound manly about the fact we're game players and not the characters we portray.  I'm a little worried that I failed after having read your response.

I'll agree AOC was sloppy, but then again so was AO and eventually it garnered a respectable following.  Had WOW not been on the scene then who's to say it wouldn't have dug in as the big boy of fantasy? WAR has no imbalances any more than anyone else - it'll succeed nicely once the instant gratification crowd has left. 

SWG - Too nich, I hardly agree.  I'm sure more people have heard of Endor than Ironforge.  On a side note, I'm entirely certain who you're addressing with the "WOW brought you into the genre" comment, but I can assure you that's not accurate about myself.  Having said that, I don't see where anyone alludes to SWG as having a 2003 release.  I don't refer to some of the old school games because very few can relate to them anymore...which is the frustration that compelled me to begin this thread - "WOW released very polished".

 

 

Your kidding about the SWG thing.. right??  SWG was released June 26th, 2003.  And..  WoW was released Nov 23rd, 2004.  Therefor your question of "What is WoW was released after these 3 games" You'd see what WoW was INFACT released after SWG.  SWG is too niche, as illistated by their player base never growing to over 300k, where as EQ grew to over 500k.   I take it you aren't trying to pick a fight with me, because that.. just doesn't make sense..

But..

AO didn't top 60k players (all this info is gathered from MMOGcharts)  AO was a successful game for it's time.  Too many people measure the success of their games based on WoW.  Which, in itself, was a freak of nature.. that didn't just pull in the MMORPG grounds, but the RTS crowds.

sigh....yes I came here to argue about dates, that's it.  I've been a member on these boards for years now and this is why I don't post - honestly just wanted to talk about games and the passion some of have toward them, in my own case it's because I played games on paper before anyone had even heard of a VIC 20.  So look, I'm not trying to pick a fight, not trying to do anything other than examine the success of a game I don't like, and think a little bit outside the normal squabble found on here.  When I said nobody alluded to SWG being released in '03 I was simply pointing out nobody had established dates.  I was looking at WOW development while still playing SWG, this isn't a thread about times and dates, it's simply a what if.
 

I fail.

I guess so..

I mean, you ask a hypothetical question. I answer.. and you don't like my response..

Better luck next time?  or.. am I supposed to agree with your points.. cause I'm off in 14 minutes.. and I won't check the boards past then..

Originally posted by Random_mage

I guess so..

I mean, you ask a hypothetical question. I answer.. and you don't like my response..

Better luck next time?  or.. am I supposed to agree with your points.. cause I'm off in 14 minutes.. and I won't check the boards past then..

Wow we getting off at the same time.................

Why I typed that I have no idea.

But this thread is speculation at best.

I think WOW done very good with the casual realm on time and computer hardware.

I honestly don't think its about comparing games as much as people think.

WOW was fun to play the first month.  Even with queues and the looting bug,.... it was amazingly fun.   You overlooked the small problems becasuse OVERALL you were having a great time.  At the end of a game session, you completely forgot about the 20 minute queue and the few mobs you couldn't loot.

AOC was terrible.  The game barely had a fun factor, and it was completely overwritten by all the bugs and major issues.   At the end of a play session, I felt aggravited and frustrated.

Warhammer is boring.   While it isn't buggy or outright aggravating (except mail).  it is just boring.  it's like you log in, run around for 20 mins trying to find RvR, get bored and give up.   Run 2 or 3 scenarios.. and then log off.   It feels like watching a rerun of a sitcom that you didn't enjoy the first time.  Even if I had nevre played WOW, I still would be bored of just 'running around looking for something to do'.

WOW did not have a perfect launch, far from it.  But at the end of a play session, you couldn't wait to play it again.  Warhammer is boring, you play it and hope they add 'fun' sometime soon.

AOC would have easily ruled them all and is still giving WOW a good run for its money.

Originally posted by Protus-AOC

AOC would have easily ruled them all and is still giving WOW a good run for its money.

AOC has 3 servers in NA and 3 servers in EU that have even 'medium' populations.   Which  points to 75k

Originally posted by Protus-AOC

AOC would have easily ruled them all and is still giving WOW a good run for its money.

thanks for the laugh Protus.. I nearly fell out of my chair.. finally.. a joker amounst all of the serious posts..

Originally posted by Azrile

Originally posted by Protus-AOC

AOC would have easily ruled them all and is still giving WOW a good run for its money.

 

AOC has 3 servers in NA and 3 servers in EU that have even 'medium' populations.   Which  points to 75k

AOC has alot more than 3 servers and is the best PVP game of all time which is why WOW is slowly dieing as AOC takes it over.

WOW will be more of a niche game after the next Xpac as almost all the WOW players are leaving for AOC due to it being the best PVP game of all time. Its so sad to see the few players left sinking with the ship of WOW.

I guess there will always be those few diehard players left to keep WOW on life support.

Originally posted by Protus-AOC

Originally posted by Azrile

Originally posted by Protus-AOC

AOC would have easily ruled them all and is still giving WOW a good run for its money.

 

AOC has 3 servers in NA and 3 servers in EU that have even 'medium' populations.   Which  points to 75k

 

AOC has alot more than 3 servers and is the best PVP game of all time which is why WOW is slowly dieing as AOC takes it over.

WOW will be more of a niche game after the next Xpac as almost all the WOW players are leaving for AOC due to it being the best PVP game of all time. Its so sad to see the few players left sinking with the ship of WOW.

I guess there will always be those few diehard players left to keep WOW on life support.

I don't know if you're the best troll in the history or just a pure tool.
 

Hmm I'm thinking it didnt really matter when WoW was released (and in what order the others were released): the main reason for the game's succes is neither its originality (which it isnt) nor is it more fun than the other games out there.

Its because of be hard-cored golden coating genious marketing planning, as such being the first mmorpg to concentrate its appeal budget to the oney who never played mmo's before.

I for exemple tried WoW because of it, even though I got quickly bored: I DID try it out.

On the other hand, it was because of the AoC marketing than I almost refrained from playing.

(death was never so beautifull!? WTF, like do you want ONLY gankers to play!?)

WoW constucted the image of their world to the public with trully immersive trailers, they took initiative and contacted many news agencies and did special offers to shops etc etc.

Originally posted by Protus-AOC

Originally posted by Azrile

Originally posted by Protus-AOC

AOC would have easily ruled them all and is still giving WOW a good run for its money.

 

AOC has 3 servers in NA and 3 servers in EU that have even 'medium' populations.   Which  points to 75k

 

AOC has alot more than 3 servers and is the best PVP game of all time which is why WOW is slowly dieing as AOC takes it over.

WOW will be more of a niche game after the next Xpac as almost all the WOW players are leaving for AOC due to it being the best PVP game of all time. Its so sad to see the few players left sinking with the ship of WOW.

I guess there will always be those few diehard players left to keep WOW on life support.

Really,  stop taking those pills and go see another doctor. it is evident that your current treatment is not solving your mental issues.

Originally posted by Azrile

AOC has 3 servers in NA and 3 servers in EU that have even 'medium' populations.   Which  points to 75k

No they don't. Prove it.

Originally posted by Protus-AOC

Originally posted by Azrile

Originally posted by Protus-AOC

AOC would have easily ruled them all and is still giving WOW a good run for its money.

 

AOC has 3 servers in NA and 3 servers in EU that have even 'medium' populations.   Which  points to 75k

 

AOC has alot more than 3 servers and is the best PVP game of all time which is why WOW is slowly dieing as AOC takes it over.

WOW will be more of a niche game after the next Xpac as almost all the WOW players are leaving for AOC due to it being the best PVP game of all time. Its so sad to see the few players left sinking with the ship of WOW.

I guess there will always be those few diehard players left to keep WOW on life support.

I take it you are a visitor from bizarro world?
But yeah, you could be right, shall we say 2017?

Originally posted by Protus-AOC

Originally posted by Azrile

Originally posted by Protus-AOC

AOC would have easily ruled them all and is still giving WOW a good run for its money.

 

AOC has 3 servers in NA and 3 servers in EU that have even 'medium' populations.   Which  points to 75k

 

AOC has alot more than 3 servers and is the best PVP game of all time which is why WOW is slowly dieing as AOC takes it over.

WOW will be more of a niche game after the next Xpac as almost all the WOW players are leaving for AOC due to it being the best PVP game of all time. Its so sad to see the few players left sinking with the ship of WOW.

I guess there will always be those few diehard players left to keep WOW on life support.

I agree! 11 million Players would sink any ship.

Originally posted by clatonious

Was reading another thread about how WOW was a polished launch and I have to admit that in comparison to some launches it wasn't too bad, BUT the game it is today is not what it started out as (in regards to both fun and stability).

Memories are always better because we tend to forget negative feelings and experiences and focus on the good.  WOW by no means set any standards in gaming, it just became mega popular and is therefore cloned.  Post-WOW games don't tend to get much of a chance because people want perfection right out the gate, WOW released on top and remains there, making it that much harder to give anyone new a chance.

Would we have patiently nursed a 2003 launch of AOC along as it worked toward smooth play?

Would WAR have gotten much success being DAOC was still heavy in 2004?

Could WOW have knocked down old school SWG or would it have been like Guild Wars and only steal a few?

What I'm getting at here is I'm of the opinion that gaming needed a breakout product and WOW for the most part won because it was simple and with low system requirements - not to mention the huge Blizzard following.  Everyone played.  I think EQ2 lost because most computers weren't ready for it system wise, people were flocking away from SWG, EQ and DAOC were stagnating, and the MMO world was ripe.

Was there another game that could've/should've been the breakout game, and if so would it have gotten WOW's numbers?

I look forward to some thoughtful responses.

This is an interesting concept to ponder.

I have often wondered if WOW had not been preceded by Warcraft 1, 2 and 3, would it have been as big as it is today.

This series was highly popular and was really the true source of WOW's success. Most people who played them played WOW, an instant player base.

Since so many people played, (myself included) the friends they played with followed and there friends followed and it just kept snowballing.

So really this question is much deeper than considering  other MMO's and if they launched before WOW. I think the bigger question would be if the Warcraft series had not launched, would WOW still have been the breakout MMO that it is?

Originally posted by peaquop

This is an interesting concept to ponder.

I have often wondered if WOW had not been preceded by Warcraft 1, 2 and 3, would it have been as big as it is today.

This series was highly popular and was really the true source of WOW's success. Most people who played them played WOW, an instant player base.

Since so many people played, (myself included) the friends they played with followed and there friends followed and it just kept snowballing.

So really this question is much deeper than considering  other MMO's and if they launched before WOW. I think the bigger question would be if the Warcraft series had not launched, would WOW still have been the breakout MMO that it is?

The answer is no. Wow has for many people nothing to do with WC1, 2 or 3.

I didn't play WC because I don't like RTS games. Didn't play SC either. It was a mistake, because after playing Wow I started playing WC3. I thought it was a kind of AoE or RA thing. I was mistaken. I found out about the lore much later.

My brother only played SC, never the WC series, my son was too young to even know WC.

So while I played a lot of RPG and MMO's before Wow, I never was into the RTS thing (because I tried CC and AoE and it didn't do anything to me).

As Wow has a LOT of non video game players, like housewives and casual players I think this theory only applies to the hardcore video players and that's only 25% of Wow public I think.

Wow is just a very good polished game with great gameplay and yes it is rewarding the players of all ages. Hardcore and casual alike. Else it wouldn't have 4.5 million US/EU players.