Hey Everyone,

I read this at Massively this morning.

http://www.massively.com/2008/11/03/china-legislates-20-tax-rate-on-virtual-currency-profits/

Do you guys suppose this will hurt Gold Farmers and reduce the amount of gold sellers in MMO's? That is the first thing I thought about when I read this.

Feel free to give your opinion................

They, and any govt that wants to tax virtual currency, can go to hell. Oppressive politician bastards.

This is the best thing China has done in years.  I'm going to go out and hug random Asian people who may or may not be of Chinese descent.  I'm that happy about this.

I actually think it's fine to tax virtual currency, but it seems such a small issue to worry about compared to the other problems China has to deal with. 

Originally posted by Tecknic

This is the best thing China has done in years.  I'm going to go out and hug random Asian people who may or may not be of Chinese descent.  I'm that happy about this.

I second that statement! Let today be know as, "Hugs for asians who may or may not be of chinese decent day"

Gamers brought this on themselves...

By assigning value to virtual property, and then buying and selling this for real money.

Anyone who thinks that a multi million/billion industry can live on without taxing on the product they sell... Well, they need a grasp of reality.

This makes gold farming in China basically a 100% legitimate business and therefore the beneficiary of all the advantages that this status has to offer. 

Originally posted by Blodpls

This makes gold farming in China basically a 100% legitimate business and therefore the beneficiary of all the advantages that this status has to offer. 

Better re-read that.  They are taxing it and therefore making a crime to not pay the taxes.  It still is illegal to trade in virtual property in china, now they have an easier way to arrest you.  Just like the USA did to Al Capone, they nailed him on tax evasion not on organized crimes he did.

I LOVE the Idea.. i hate the Item selling sites..

OoOOoo Any newb can become a God without working for it..

Originally posted by wjrasmussen

Originally posted by Blodpls

This makes gold farming in China basically a 100% legitimate business and therefore the beneficiary of all the advantages that this status has to offer. 

 

Better re-read that.  They are taxing it and therefore making a crime to not pay the taxes.  It still is illegal to trade in virtual property in china, now they have an easier way to arrest you.  Just like the USA did to Al Capone, they nailed him on tax evasion not on organized crimes he did.

It doesn't say anywhere that's it's illegal to trade in virtual items in that article, it says there are restrictions.

Regarding Al Capone, modern taxed beverage companies make vastly larger sums of money and produce much greater quantities of alcohol than Al Capone ever did.  They can get bank loans to set up business, their employees have the relevent rights like other legitimate companies, they can be made public companies and their stocks traded. 

There are large amounts of money that can be made through virtual items, this is bringing it into the fold of regular, legitmate business it is not a measure to stop it.           

Originally posted by Blodpls

Originally posted by wjrasmussen

Originally posted by Blodpls

This makes gold farming in China basically a 100% legitimate business and therefore the beneficiary of all the advantages that this status has to offer. 

 

Better re-read that.  They are taxing it and therefore making a crime to not pay the taxes.  It still is illegal to trade in virtual property in china, now they have an easier way to arrest you.  Just like the USA did to Al Capone, they nailed him on tax evasion not on organized crimes he did.

 

It doesn't say anywhere that's it's illegal to trade in virtual items in that article, it says there are restrictions.

Regarding Al Capone, modern taxed beverage companies make vastly larger sums of money and produce much greater quantities of alcohol than Al Capone ever did.  They can get bank loans to set up business, their employees have the relevent rights like other legitimate companies, they can be made public companies and their stocks traded. 

There are large amounts of money that can be made through virtual items, this is bringing it into the fold of regular, legitmate business it is not a measure to stop it.           

It says: While much of the world's gold farming activity is based in mainland China, the black market industry operates in violation of the law.

But the question we need to be discussing is "Is this going to hurt Gold Sellers and if so how is it going to change our games?"

Originally posted by EndEver000

But the question we need to be discussing is "Is this going to hurt Gold Sellers and if so how is it going to change our games?"

WoW will go down to 2 million subs :P haha! 

Originally posted by Reborn17

They, and any govt that wants to tax virtual currency, can go to hell. Oppressive politician bastards.

what does it matter to you? or do you sell gold? :P

i think its a great thing theyve done

Originally posted by Reborn17

They, and any govt that wants to tax virtual currency, can go to hell. Oppressive politician bastards.

Why? Are you a gold farmer? I don't care if they tax it 100%. It has no effect on me since I don't sell virtual currency or buy it.

I only play P2P games with monthly subscription fees, and never purchase items or gold for rl money.

Originally posted by EndEver000

But the question we need to be discussing is "Is this going to hurt Gold Sellers and if so how is it going to change our games?"

If you think this is the moment is changes our games, then I say no.  When virtual property could be turned into real money, that was a change.  But perhaps the change starts before then, when you could earn virtual property.  U.S. tax code didn't need to be changed for Virtural proptery to be taxed in one way: If you sell virtual property, you should be declaring it.  If you don't pay taxes on the profit, you are skipping out on paying taxes.

I suspect when the govts around the world get involved, there will be fun for all.  Hopefully not stupid stuff, like item decay caused me to lose my epic sword, sue the makers!!!  But you never know, there are some silly lawsuits out there.

Originally posted by Reborn17

They, and any govt that wants to tax virtual currency, can go to hell. Oppressive politician bastards.

China is not taxing virtual currency it is taxing real currency (i.e. the profits made from gold selling).

Anything that makes gold sellers lives more difficult is fine with me.  (Make it illegal and throw them in prison)

10 years in the future: The goverment are taxing your Wow2 characters 5% of their gold every year... Or maybe youll even have to pay it in real cash since virtual money are considered real.

I see why the chinese did this, a lot of people are earning cash on this an they want a piece of the cake.

On the other hand, P2P have been standing quite still lately so it is possible that either games like Guildwars or F2P games with an itemshop will be the big thing in the future and if the F2P wins, then the farmers will go out of bussiness since you can buy the cool stuff directly from the devs without risking anything (being tricked, banned or having your visa card stolen).

The P2P games seems to have been competing for the same number of players for at least a year, the growing effect Wow gave us seems to stopped and now most P2P MMO players comes from another P2P MMO. Off course this can also be because the world economy have gone bad lately, hopefully it will turn and maybe Biowares or Blizzards upcoming game will attract new people when they comes.

Originally posted by Porfat

Originally posted by Reborn17

They, and any govt that wants to tax virtual currency, can go to hell. Oppressive politician bastards.

 

China is not taxing virtual currency it is taxing real currency (i.e. the profits made from gold selling).

Anything that makes gold sellers lives more difficult is fine with me.  (Make it illegal and throw them in prison)

Yeah, I don't get what all the furor is about.  Blizzard has to pay taxes on the money it makes through WoW, why shouldn't gold sellers?

Originally posted by Loke666

10 years in the future: The goverment are taxing your Wow2 characters 5% of their gold every year...

Yes, and the Chinese government will sell the WoW2 gold they gathered on ebay

This is horrible news and sets a dangerous precedent for gaming. And this will not hurt gold sellers.  They will just pass the additonal cost on to their customers, same as every industry. 

By establishing that virtual items and currency have real world value, they then have a basis for taxing you ingame every time you loot an item, trade an item, sell an item to vendor, auction an item, etc.  This is bad, very, very bad.

Originally posted by Terranah

This is horrible news and sets a dangerous precedent for gaming. And this will not hurt gold sellers.  They will just pass the additonal cost on to their customers, same as every industry. 

 

By establishing that virtual items and currency have real world value, they then have a basis for taxing you ingame every time you loot an item, trade an item, sell an item to vendor, auction an item, etc.  This is bad, very, very bad.

Wouldn't the trend be that more people by a cheaper product then a more expensive?  If they raise prices less people will buy.  Atleast that is the way markets work, isn't it? 

No, it won't hurt gold sellers. They will pass the cost to consumers.

I don't see how they can even keep track of these profits, anyways. Like ebay sellers, the US govt has no idea what most of them make.

That's a fairly low tax rate. Mine was 25% last year.That doesn't even include state and city tax, SS and medicaid.

Good, let them pass that cost on to the "consumers." It might not stop many of them, but at least it'll hurt them a little more.

This is actually a great move by the chinese government. Being that virtual item sales has become a billion dollar business this is potentially huge income for the government. I wish the US government would adopt such measures to reduce the sagging national deficit (which is growing into a 2.9 trillion dollar deficit by 2011 if nothing is done about it). But yeah this is like a pinprick to an elephant but at this time anything will help.