Originally posted by Gorair

actually Obama has a shot of getting something's he wants done , he is sitting in perfect position to have a trifecta of Democrats with no way to stop policy. no mater what anyone outside the hill wants or says.

If he gets the seats in  Senate and house + his bias means they actually have a decent shot at passing things he wants.

 

 

Everything must pass by a 2/3rds majority. As long as the Republicans hold at least 1/3rd of each house Obama isn't going to change squat.

Cobra Commander is looking better and better every day

Bren

When George Bush entered office we had a 1 trillion$ deficit and yearly budget surpluses paying it down.  After 6 years of complete republican control and 8 years of a republican presidency we have a 10 trillion dollar deficit growing at a trillion a year.

Republicans love to talk small government and lower taxes, but all they are really doing is running our country into the ground. I wish anyone of these conservatives could explain to me how this is good for the  middle class.

Don't get me started on there inability to conduct civil foreign policy or there inability to regulate. It is this inability to regulate that has truly hurt the middle class not the Democrats.

no one is trying to say it was all democrats , and no one is saying its all rebublicans fault ( except democrats) most informed people accept it was BOTH parties sucking from the cash cow.

But  something everyone should really learn is that you dont shoot your self in the leg to fix an head injury. 

Thats what people are doing this election ,  voting in worse policy with zero chance of fixing things just because they are mad at a rebublican president ( who cant even DO most of the crap you peolpe are mad at him about anyway), honestly you should be mad at both parties and the currentr congress since they are equally responsible and this is no longer in doubt by anyone willing to look beyond 30 second TV ad's and dig for facts

Originally posted by qazyman

When George Bush entered office we had a 1 trillion$ deficit and yearly budget surpluses paying it down.  After 6 years of complete republican control and 8 years of a republican presidency we have a 10 trillion dollar deficit growing at a trillion a year.

Republicans love to talk small government and lower taxes, but all they are really doing is running our country into the ground. I wish anyone of these conservatives could explain to me how this is good for the  middle class.

Don't get me started on there inability to conduct civil foreign policy or there inability to regulate. It is this inability to regulate that has truly hurt the middle class not the Democrats.

You say republicans , yet these are individuals, there are conservative republians moderate republicans and neo republicans, just as you have different degrees of democrats.  bush was not a conservative, and that is what we really need to pay off the deficit.  democrats sure aren't going to do it either lol. bush is more like Obama when it comes to spending, so you can expect it to get worse ...

Spending is not good for our economy on either side, so basically you want to look at who will spend less, this year that happens to be McCain. Though I would have taken any of the 3rd party candidates any day if I thought they had a snowballs chance in hell of winning.

inability to conduct civil foreign policy, or inability to regulate is on both sides of the table here,  The French president thinks Obama has empty words without content when it comes to his policies,  and most of the middle east thinks the guy is their messiah so how that can be good foreign policy is beyond me. LOL!  Failure to regulate? why did democrats fight so hard to keep them from regulating freddie and fannie?  this is on both sides of the table here .. not just one.

Originally posted by crysomore

This economic crap and Obama as president all points to the end of the middle-class.  And no guys they aren't going to bump us up a notch.  Have fun.  Your only option is to join the welfare wagon and become a loser because ingenuity, risk, independence, knowledge and hard work will NOT be rewarded.

Can Obama (if he wins) and a Democratic Congress destroy America in four years?  Unlikely.  But they sure as hell can do a lot of damage.  Just a word of advice, if you do not now keep any assets in offshore accounts, you might want to look into it.

Originally posted by Zindaihas

Originally posted by crysomore

This economic crap and Obama as president all points to the end of the middle-class.  And no guys they aren't going to bump us up a notch.  Have fun.  Your only option is to join the welfare wagon and become a loser because ingenuity, risk, independence, knowledge and hard work will NOT be rewarded.

 

Can Obama (if he wins) and a Democratic Congress destroy America in four years?  Unlikely.  But they sure as hell can do a lot of damage.  Just a word of advice, if you do not now keep any assets in offshore accounts, you might want to look into it.

 What ! America has been destroyed by Bush over the past  8 years.  What type of damage are you talking about? I have a great idea , why don't you go be with your offshore accounts.

Originally posted by JestorRodo

Originally posted by Zindaihas

Originally posted by crysomore

This economic crap and Obama as president all points to the end of the middle-class.  And no guys they aren't going to bump us up a notch.  Have fun.  Your only option is to join the welfare wagon and become a loser because ingenuity, risk, independence, knowledge and hard work will NOT be rewarded.

Can Obama (if he wins) and a Democratic Congress destroy America in four years?  Unlikely.  But they sure as hell can do a lot of damage.  Just a word of advice, if you do not now keep any assets in offshore accounts, you might want to look into it.

 What ! America has been destroyed by Bush over the past  8 years.  What type of damage are you talking about? I have a great idea , why don't you go be with your offshore accounts. 

Obama will take the money away from the rich and rebuild the middle class. Such a redistribution of wealth is evil, for the rich create jobs. What needs to be done to get out of this recession is to take more money away from the middle class, and give it to the rich so that more jobs are created.

Policies like the bailout are good. Giving bailout money to executives as a bonus is good. Spending bailout money on executive retreats to luxury resorts is good. Giving subsidies to the wool industry and wooden arrow shaft manufacturers is good. This is how to create more jobs.

What we need is eight more years of Bush economic policies. Obama will only destroy America by undoing all that Bush has accomplished in the last eight years. Vote McCain, he will take care of you.

yes giving more money to corporations and such is a good idea, its not like they aren't gonna just pocket it all or something...only the blind would believe they would create more jobs here, hell all they do is cut jobs and will continue to do so no matter how many breaks you give them.  But yeah give them more cash, i'm sure they wouldn't mind pocketing it all and cutting a few more jobs for that new yacht they want.

Originally posted by Scalebane

yes giving more money to corporations and such is a good idea, its not like they aren't gonna just pocket it all or something...only the blind would believe they would create more jobs here, hell all they do is cut jobs and will continue to do so no matter how many breaks you give them.  But yeah give them more cash, i'm sure they wouldn't mind pocketing it all and cutting a few more jobs for that new yacht they want.

Good to see someone else that understands. The upcoming auto industry bailout will be a good example, once General Motors and Chrysler merge the number of jobs created will absolutely amaze.

The more money will give to corporate America, the better we will do. The more money we give to the rich, the more jobs we will have. It is a waste to give money to the common man.

The more money we borrow from the central Asian banks, the better.

The fundamentals are strong, vote McCain.

Hard work isn't rewarded now.  I know a 25 year GM engineer forced into early retirement who is now working 80 hours a week as a janitor to just pay bills.  I don't see how Obama can do any worse. 

Originally posted by olddaddy

Originally posted by JestorRodo

Originally posted by Zindaihas

Originally posted by crysomore

 

 

Obama will take the money away from the rich and rebuild the middle class. Such a redistribution of wealth is evil, for the rich create jobs. What needs to be done to get out of this recession is to take more money away from the middle class, and give it to the rich so that more jobs are created.

Policies like the bailout are good. Giving bailout money to executives as a bonus is good. Spending bailout money on executive retreats to luxury resorts is good. Giving subsidies to the wool industry and wooden arrow shaft manufacturers is good. This is how to create more jobs.

What we need is eight more years of Bush economic policies. Obama will only destroy America by undoing all that Bush has accomplished in the last eight years. Vote McCain, he will take care of you.

Thank You! I hadn't had a good laugh today until I read this
 

On a side note. We have just witnessed the greatest redistribution of wealth since the 20's and 30's. All of it going to the wealthy. This is why the middle class is hurting so bad, they have been bled dry. Why is there such an emotional response when they use politics to strike back? Lets just hope Obama can help.

I'll let you in on a little secret....America's middle class is far more important to global stability than America's wealthy could ever hope to be. We are the one's who do the work; we are the ones who pay the bills!

He is taxing all of the industry. That is the problem.  He is raising their capital gains tax and their income tax. Not only do they have to pay for " retrofitting" but he is going to take their profits at the same time. That is where the problem is, if they pay for retrofitting alone that would be fine, but all of those numbers add up to HUGE numbers and who gets to pay for these? the consumers (the middle class). When you add up all his taxes together it adds up to a huge burden placed upon consumers. Huge price increases, not the ones we are accustomed to, the income and tax breaks will not be anywhere near the amount needed to offset this.

That is where the problem lies, not in trying to "retrofit" alone. He keeps piling more on to the camels back and not care whether or not it can take it. middle class pay those taxes not the "big companies" noo they don't cut into their profits, they pass the buck, and he does nothing to stop that from happening, in fact all his policies, his "retrofitting", his capital gains tax, his $250,000 a year income tax plan all taxes the same people who then pass the taxes on to us. middle class will wind up paying this no matter who he taxes.

The thing is we CANNOT afford these taxes, the money he is giving back is not going to add up to the money he takes from the middle class, and that is where the middle class gets poo'd on here. when our electric bills are $600+ a month, our gas bills get forced through the roof, our product prices shoot up due to the income taxes what do we do then? we do know what is going to happen here, because IT has been done before, and everytime it is done THE MIDDLE CLASS PAYS FOR IT. what hasn't been done is raising these things through the roof as he is planning because no one has ever been crazy enough to do that simply because they knew the devastating affect it would have on the American people.

He is giving with one hand and taking alot more away with the other,  Juts so many people are too blind to see what he is doing with the other hand.  He tells the middle class to "live more frugally, put more air in your tires to save on gas, but that will not bring Christmas back for the middle class .. no the middle class is already stretched beyond their means, he will expect them to just do without.

Originally posted by deviliscious

He is giving with one hand and taking alot more away with the other,  Juts so many people are too blind to see what he is doing with the other hand.  He tells the middle class to "live more frugally, put more air in your tires to save on gas, but that will not bring Christmas back for the middle class .. no the middle class is already stretched beyond their means, he will expect them to just do without.

So what your saying is the American electorate doesn't have the ability to make an informed correct decision. I think your wrong.

The only real question here, as far as I can see, is spending. Will Obama, with a Democratic congress have the political will to cut spending and reduce the size of government. If he does, all you republicans might as well move to Canada, because it's going to be along time before you ever see political power.

Before you LOL, remember everyone said the exact same thing about Bill Clinton, and he cut spending and reduced the size of government.

When he had his pants on that is.

Originally posted by konrad16660

Obama will bring quality of life and decent jobs back to the United States that have otherwise been sent over to India and other countries.

And how exactly is he going to do that?

Both candidates have been really short on the details of how they are going to accomplish all these pie-in-the-sky notions.

Which is why when I voted today, I only voted for the local elections and left the top spots blank.

Originally posted by qazyman

Originally posted by deviliscious

He is giving with one hand and taking alot more away with the other,  Juts so many people are too blind to see what he is doing with the other hand.  He tells the middle class to "live more frugally, put more air in your tires to save on gas, but that will not bring Christmas back for the middle class .. no the middle class is already stretched beyond their means, he will expect them to just do without.

 

So what your saying is the American electorate doesn't have the ability to make an informed correct decision. I think your wrong.

The only real question here, as far as I can see, is spending. Will Obama, with a Democratic congress have the political will to cut spending and reduce the size of government. If he does, all you republicans might as well move to Canada, because it's going to be along time before you ever see political power.

Before you LOL, remember everyone said the exact same thing about Bill Clinton, and he cut spending and reduced the size of government.

When he had his pants on that is.

I voted for Bill.. I actually looked at what he was saying and going to do prior to him running for Presicent, Bill was a moderate,  Obama is not.  Bill did not want to expand the government to the size that Obama wishes, Bill repespected  the constitution, Obama does not.  Bill is not Obama, and has sharply criticized him in the past for good reason.  Oh yea I am not a republican, I did not vote for Bush, I am a free thinker and I do not follow any party, I vote to try and look out for the best interest of this country, not to see it thrown down the drain.  YOU ARE MAD if you think they have any intention of cutting spending.. who has added more "pork' to everything passed in congress? who wants to spend more money we don' t have on more programs ? Have you even looked at what they have passed with a democrat majority? Have you even looked?  Have you looked at what they intend to pass? Just be ready , because you will be the one forced to cut back spending so they can spend your money for you. Don't say you weren't warned. My only hope is that they don;t do so much damage that it is impossible to fix later. I will be fine, I have money to all back on, do you?
 

Originally posted by deviliscious

Originally posted by qazyman

Originally posted by deviliscious

 

YOU ARE MAD if you think they have any intention of cutting spending..

You may be right but if you are he will lose the middle and lose power very quickly.

Have you even looked at what they have passed with a democrat majority? Have you even looked? 

Bill Clinton had a Democratic majority and did exactly what I'm proposing for the reasons I suggest. If Obama want to take the nation down a liberal love fest thats fine, but he will lose the support of the people by doing this. This is really the only logical approach for the democrats; It will insure political power for a very long time. If they want to do the same thing Bush did say Hello to a third party.

Am I MAD, thats debatable...but I've certainly been called worse.
 

Originally posted by Brenelael

Originally posted by Gorair

actually Obama has a shot of getting something's he wants done , he is sitting in perfect position to have a trifecta of Democrats with no way to stop policy. no mater what anyone outside the hill wants or says.

If he gets the seats in  Senate and house + his bias means they actually have a decent shot at passing things he wants.

 

 

Everything must pass by a 2/3rds majority. As long as the Republicans hold at least 1/3rd of each house Obama isn't going to change squat.

 

Cobra Commander is looking better and better every day

 

Bren

Not true, to pass something only requires a +50% majority so long as the President agrees. The only time it requires +66% is when the president attempts to veto the bill.

Originally posted by qazyman

Originally posted by deviliscious

Originally posted by qazyman

Originally posted by deviliscious

 

YOU ARE MAD if you think they have any intention of cutting spending..

You may be right but if you are he will lose the middle and lose power very quickly.

Have you even looked at what they have passed with a democrat majority? Have you even looked? 

Bill Clinton had a Democratic majority and did exactly what I'm proposing for the reasons I suggest. If Obama want to take the nation down a liberal love fest thats fine, but he will lose the support of the people by doing this. This is really the only logical approach for the democrats; It will insure political power for a very long time. If they want to do the same thing Bush did say Hello to a third party.

Am I MAD, thats debatable...but I've certainly been called worse.
 

The problem being that we have a more corrupt congress than ever right now, they throw out the people from meetings that stand up for the people, THEY HAVE NOT DONE THIS IN THE PAST. They care nothing for the people, it is all about their agenda. ask Marcy Kaptur.. she knows "wassup" and she isn;t afraid to tell the people either. The problem is there are very few Kapturs fighting for us, and we have to clean these others out before we can get more in there.  The balance is way off that is why these things have been able to happen, the balance will be farther off if Pelosi has absolute power.

Obama does what pelosi says ... and that isn't going to be good for anyone.  We should have been saying "hello" to a third party for a while now, but see they have corrupted the system to such extreme that no one even gets to hear what the third parties are offering. They are not even allowed in the main presidential debates, and they very well should be. Unless that changes there is no way any 3rd party will be able to "buy " their way in because  that is the only way they can get there. They get no air time, and the majority of the country doesn't even know about the 3rd party.

I do not think they will be "moderate" in their decicions, far from it, this is the most liberal congress and presidential candidate this country has ever seen. I don;t think  they even care if they get reelected, they think that as long as they  get the uneducated people out to vote they can win via media blitz.  It works for power rangers why not the white house? You see they have propaganda on their side, what do the people have? Nothing.
 

Originally posted by tillamook

I love how deviliscious keeps telling people they are wrong, but when you check the facts it seem she is wrong and it's all just her oppinion. Who spent all the surplus? xD It was Bush

Anyways Bush fucked up, even he knows this. After he is out of office you are gonna see an interview done on a prime time news show were he admits his mistakes. There was a reason why his advisers bailed on him, thought we all know he was misinformed on a lot of things by his advisers. So don't be surprised if he points the finger at a few them, and rightly so. And here is something some of you may not know, he's voting for Obama.

So Bush is voting for Obama? Do the Bush-Whackers know? Or did the media hide that jab at their infatuation, too?

Originally posted by deviliscious

Originally posted by qazyman

Originally posted by deviliscious

Originally posted by qazyman

Originally posted by deviliscious

 

 

 

 

I do not think they will be "moderate" in their decicions, far from it, this is the most liberal congress and presidential candidate this country has ever seen. I don;t think  they even care if they get reelected, they think that as long as they  get the uneducated people out to vote they can win via media blitz.  It works for power rangers why not the white house? You see they have propaganda on their side, what do the people have? Nothing.
 

 I think (hope) you may underestimate the American voter. The American people want real change. If Obama and Pelosi don't deliver they will be in the same boat Bush is in right now. I agree that they try to fool the voters to retain power; I just don't think this has proved to be a good way to govern.

If your views are correct, the Dem's will go down if flames and voters will start to look to other options. A media blitz will not cover up lies and failure for very long.

BTW you keep saying politics is about individuals not parties. If this is true why didn't McCain run as the Maverick he has been his whole career? That was a Joe I could have voted for.

 

 

Originally posted by qazyman

Originally posted by deviliscious

 

I do not think they will be "moderate" in their decicions, far from it, this is the most liberal congress and presidential candidate this country has ever seen. I don;t think  they even care if they get reelected, they think that as long as they  get the uneducated people out to vote they can win via media blitz.  It works for power rangers why not the white house? You see they have propaganda on their side, what do the people have? Nothing.

 

 

 I think (hope) you may underestimate the American voter. The American people want real change. If Obama and Pelosi don't deliver they will be in the same boat Bush is in right now. I agree that they try to fool the voters to retain power; I just don't think this has proved to be a good way to govern.

If your views are correct, the Dem's will go down if flames and voters will start to look to other options. A media blitz will not cover up lies and failure for very long.

BTW you keep saying politics is about individuals not parties. If this is true why didn't McCain run as the Maverick he has been his whole career? That was a Joe I could have voted for.

 

 

 

well, you see how far Bob barr got on his own.. why do you think Ron Paul went republican?, ( which I still wish they had chose him instead)  without the backing from one of the parties you don;t have a snowballs chance in hell of winning. You get no advertsing, no press, no debates, no televised speeches.. nothing.. so no one even knows you ran at all.  To me it is about indviduals, I cannot understand how anyone could vote straight ticket ever without even knowing what or who they are voting for. I actually look at each and every person runnig for office in every position so that I can make a sound decision. The majority of  voters do not and that is a problem.

Originally posted by deviliscious

Originally posted by qazyman

Originally posted by deviliscious

 

I do not think they will be "moderate" in their decicions, far from it, this is the most liberal congress and presidential candidate this country has ever seen. I don;t think  they even care if they get reelected, they think that as long as they  get the uneducated people out to vote they can win via media blitz.  It works for power rangers why not the white house? You see they have propaganda on their side, what do the people have? Nothing.

 

 

 I think (hope) you may underestimate the American voter. The American people want real change. If Obama and Pelosi don't deliver they will be in the same boat Bush is in right now. I agree that they try to fool the voters to retain power; I just don't think this has proved to be a good way to govern.

If your views are correct, the Dem's will go down if flames and voters will start to look to other options. A media blitz will not cover up lies and failure for very long.

BTW you keep saying politics is about individuals not parties. If this is true why didn't McCain run as the Maverick he has been his whole career? That was a Joe I could have voted for.

 

 

 

 

well, you see how far Bob barr got on his own.. why do you think Ron Paul went republican?, ( which I still wish they had chose him instead)  without the backing from one of the parties you don;t have a snowballs chance in hell of winning. You get no advertsing, no press, no debates, no televised speeches.. nothing.. so no one even knows you ran at all.  To me it is about indviduals, I cannot understand how anyone could vote straight ticket ever without even knowing what or who they are voting for. I actually look at each and every person runnig for office in every position so that I can make a sound decision. The majority of  voters do not and that is a problem.

Did you notice how they came after him with that racism charge after he raised all that money?

I think your wrong to think Ron Paul's views don't have a place in America's future. If the Dem's fail, thats where people will turn. Ron Paul was the best candidate in the race IMHO.

Originally posted by qazyman

Originally posted by deviliscious

 

well, you see how far Bob barr got on his own.. why do you think Ron Paul went republican?, ( which I still wish they had chose him instead)  without the backing from one of the parties you don;t have a snowballs chance in hell of winning. You get no advertsing, no press, no debates, no televised speeches.. nothing.. so no one even knows you ran at all.  To me it is about indviduals, I cannot understand how anyone could vote straight ticket ever without even knowing what or who they are voting for. I actually look at each and every person runnig for office in every position so that I can make a sound decision. The majority of  voters do not and that is a problem.

 

Did you notice how they came after him with that racism charge after he raised all that money?

I think your wrong to think Ron Paul's views don't have a place in America's future. If the Dem's fail, thats where people will turn. Ron Paul was the best candidate in the race IMHO.

I fully agree, and the republicans would have taken this in a land slide if they had nominated him instead.
 

Originally posted by qazyman

Originally posted by olddaddy

Originally posted by JestorRodo

Originally posted by Zindaihas

Originally posted by crysomore

 

 

Obama will take the money away from the rich and rebuild the middle class. Such a redistribution of wealth is evil, for the rich create jobs. What needs to be done to get out of this recession is to take more money away from the middle class, and give it to the rich so that more jobs are created.

Policies like the bailout are good. Giving bailout money to executives as a bonus is good. Spending bailout money on executive retreats to luxury resorts is good. Giving subsidies to the wool industry and wooden arrow shaft manufacturers is good. This is how to create more jobs.

What we need is eight more years of Bush economic policies. Obama will only destroy America by undoing all that Bush has accomplished in the last eight years. Vote McCain, he will take care of you.

Thank You! I hadn't had a good laugh today until I read this
 

On a side note. We have just witnessed the greatest redistribution of wealth since the 20's and 30's. All of it going to the wealthy. This is why the middle class is hurting so bad, they have been bled dry. Why is there such an emotional response when they use politics to strike back? Lets just hope Obama can help.

I'll let you in on a little secret....America's middle class is far more important to global stability than America's wealthy could ever hope to be. We are the one's who do the work; we are the ones who pay the bills!

  I was laughing at this too. The only Tickle down I want to see is out of Palin's ***.

Originally posted by JestorRodo

Originally posted by qazyman

Originally posted by olddaddy

Originally posted by JestorRodo

Originally posted by Zindaihas

Originally posted by crysomore

 

 

Obama will take the money away from the rich and rebuild the middle class. Such a redistribution of wealth is evil, for the rich create jobs. What needs to be done to get out of this recession is to take more money away from the middle class, and give it to the rich so that more jobs are created.

Policies like the bailout are good. Giving bailout money to executives as a bonus is good. Spending bailout money on executive retreats to luxury resorts is good. Giving subsidies to the wool industry and wooden arrow shaft manufacturers is good. This is how to create more jobs.

What we need is eight more years of Bush economic policies. Obama will only destroy America by undoing all that Bush has accomplished in the last eight years. Vote McCain, he will take care of you.

Thank You! I hadn't had a good laugh today until I read this
 

On a side note. We have just witnessed the greatest redistribution of wealth since the 20's and 30's. All of it going to the wealthy. This is why the middle class is hurting so bad, they have been bled dry. Why is there such an emotional response when they use politics to strike back? Lets just hope Obama can help.

I'll let you in on a little secret....America's middle class is far more important to global stability than America's wealthy could ever hope to be. We are the one's who do the work; we are the ones who pay the bills!

  I was laughing at this too. The only Tickle down I want to see is out of Palin's ***.

 

Sick.  Well thanks guys for the entertainment.  I'm glad most of you are too lazy or young to vote.