Like a lot of gamers on this site I have been playing MMO's for over 10 years and overall the experience I have had has been a good one.  However in recent years I have become increasingly concerned of the mass marketing, mass hype and mass promises firms are coming out with and only to deliver a bugged, inadequate  game that leaves a sour taste in the mouth.  As the years roll on and another major release is launched and does not come close to expectations I have become a pessimistic and unforgiving gamer.  Then I see more announcements that makes me sit up with excitement, Stargate Worlds, Star Trek and Star Wars the Old Republic but for me I can't help but think that these 3 games will go the same route as Vanguard, AoC and WAR etc.  Great fun for 2-4 weeks but as you scratch away the surface you see the same mechanics with a different wrapping. 

Its like your mum trying to make you eat vegetables as a child and telling you the pie, mash potatoes, pudding or casserole are all different but once you are a few bites in you realise its the same crap you ate the day before and spit it out in disgust.

So is the next big MMO coming from a firm with hundreds of employees or an Indie firm plugging away in a cramped office in the eastern block or sunny Greece?  I for one are keeping a very close eye on the Indie firms.  Its my prediction that the next generation MMO will be delivered by one of these firms as they are not bound to deliver a game that 'must' pull in 750k subs or please the common public even.  They are focusing on a mature audience that enjoys PvP, the consequences of PvP and are able to create a guild and make their mark without being hand held throughout the whole process.  

Yes I am excited about Stargate, Star Trek and Star Wars but my expectations are low.  For me the next MMO to revolutionise this market will rise from an Indie firm.  Prediction only but one I strongly believe in.

Glass half full type of guy are you ? I don't expect an Indie to bring much to the table for your festing i fear. There is Sooo much more involved than just banging together a game. Patches, bugs, customer support, gold sellers, gold bots, hacks, scams, server maintance. Such a big plate to fill for such a small kitchen. It worked for the guys that made CS but that was easy, simple mod for them. But for a mmo, I don't see it happening. As far as these big powerhouses banging out these bombs...If you release it before its ready, your gonna pay. People don't want to wait for fixes these days and I don't blame them. Its there money after all.

MMO's , 2009 - the only thing that can save this genre is change. Big corporations make projects that are to expensive to take any risk. And so the eyes and hopes are in hands of Indies!

It is crazy but true.

And as smaller and more financially independant project , the better.

Here is a good example , a MMO done by one single person - and allready whole internets is turning their heads towards it.

Its called : LOVE , and its completely procedural random generated world where players can not only build cities, but change the face of whole world ...

www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/194525.html

Indie companies will be the innovators.
Whether they will be successful or not, it has to be seen.
I hope they are.

The only indie developer that has ever launched a successful MMORPG is CCP and Eve Online.

That's about it.

Not a good track record if you ask me.

Originally posted by TenSpotting

The only indie developer that has ever launched a successful MMORPG is CCP and Eve Online.

That's about it.

Not a good track record if you ask me.

Let's fix this a bit.

Turbine AC etc. they started small

Mythic DAOC, not allot of money spend on the project but hey, they made 500 k !

Funcom AO At the times of AO, they weren't that big.

CCP EVE

And i think there are others  ( like COX) 

I think that's a pretty decent track that indie developers or smaller/medium sized companies do not automatic fail. Also the big difference between them and the big ones is that they don't have allot of money. They won't put allot of money in PR. They put it mostly in there games while the big ones do it the opposite most of the times.

Indie developers and the smaller to medium sized companies is where the better mmo's will probably come from.

So much is riding on the shoulders of Darkfall.

I am not a DF fanboy, but I recognize that it is showing promise. Wide open world, fun pvp, etc. MMos need something to re-energize the genre! Let's face it, most MMO gamers are either content Wow players, or really really bored gamers who are desperate for something to grab their attention.

I agree with ya here Earthrise, APB, Fallen Earth, jumpgate evolution, DFO, WELL Online, etc are all on my list of most anticipated games.

Originally posted by TenSpotting

The only indie developer that has ever launched a successful MMORPG is CCP and Eve Online.

That's about it.

Not a good track record if you ask me.

Jagex was amazingly indie to start with.   their first real multiplayer game was just a bunch of board games...

And now they have major corps looking into their bussiness model.  and have more active playes online than quite a few MMOs have subscribing.

the days of big dinosaur companies is numbered.

Originally posted by shadenis

Originally posted by TenSpotting

The only indie developer that has ever launched a successful MMORPG is CCP and Eve Online.

That's about it.

Not a good track record if you ask me.

 

Let's fix this a bit.

 

Turbine AC etc. they started small

Mythic DAOC, not allot of money spend on the project but hey, they made 500 k !

Funcom AO At the times of AO, they weren't that big.

CCP EVE

And i think there are others  ( like COX) 

I think that's a pretty decent track that indie developers or smaller/medium sized companies do not automatic fail. Also the big difference between them and the big ones is that they don't have allot of money. They won't put allot of money in PR. They put it mostly in there games while the big ones do it the opposite most of the times.

Indie developers and the smaller to medium sized companies is where the better mmo's will probably come from.

Umn, all those companies have released videogames before trying to make the biggest hardest to make type of videogame - an MMO. 

All these new Indie MMOs that probably won't release or wont work if they do release are from companies that haven't done anything.  Dark and Light, Darkfall, Fallen Earth, Earthrise...what have ANY of those companies produced on an international level that actually made money?

Turbine, Funcom, and Mythic have definitely created good, selling games before they tried their hand at MMOs.
 

It is clear that there is a strong influx of games from the indies.... but the real question is will they be sucessful.  There are a LOT of new games coming out over the next year, as well as some big industry players entering the market. All I can say is that it will be a good year for the consumer.... and not such a good year for some of the games.

I think the MMO scene must die before it can evolve and rise like a Phoenix. It is stuck in a rut like no other, nohting new is coming onto the scene and peoples biggest hopes are games that cater to what MMOs were 10+ years ago. MMOs have not changed in any way in 5+ years all the while singleplayer games are running past them like sprinters beside a turtle, in terms of complexity, size and entertainemtn value. Today, you find the advanced games among singleplayers and the simple bubblegum crap among MMOs. Completly opposite compared to the birth of the MMO market (when they wanted to create more mature games for adults, and not everything aimed towards kids.) Its a fast downward spiral and people are jumping this genre. So.... It needs to die... They need to continue to make their mistakes and copy old concepts, then fail and die. They need to spend millions and years on game that can nto hold the attention of an average gamer for more than a few weeks, all the while the same gamers play a singleplayer game for 3 years... Then just die... In limbo... where all old ideas have failed... someone will rise up with a new generation of ideas, of creative thinking, get his inspiration form other sources than "what exists today" and then we will for the first time see real change, real evolution. The computer game market almost died like that when consoles started to get more advanced... It was all doom and gloom... Until the makers decided to not try to copy the consoles.. but instead do games that the consoles could not. More advanced and more detailed than jumping and shooting. It brought us to the games we play today.... We have the same problem now. I think the sollution is the same.

Make something others can not... and you will find the players. Copy what already exists... and people have already done it, they wont do it again. I have faith in CCP... But thats me. They really created something completly new last time. My hope is that they try to do it again, instead of jumping on the WoW train.

Originally posted by oronisi

Originally posted by shadenis

Originally posted by TenSpotting

The only indie developer that has ever launched a successful MMORPG is CCP and Eve Online.

That's about it.

Not a good track record if you ask me.

 

Let's fix this a bit.

 

Turbine AC etc. they started small

Mythic DAOC, not allot of money spend on the project but hey, they made 500 k !

 

Sure AC started small until they were picked up by Microsoft. AC would have never made it if that did not happen.

Mythic had tons of experience and had plenty of money before making DAOC. They had lots of smaller multiplayer games selling through their online gaming center like MageStorm. It was even offered through America Online.

The odds that any indy company (that doesn't have tons of money to hire a pro team) making a commercial grade MMORPG is very slim.

I don't expect any of these games on this list to become anything more than C grade products IF they even lanuch at all.

There's alot more that goes into making a MMORPG then coding and art. You need good support, good updates, great marketing.. a good publisher..

 India games have been what you've all been asking for for years. But you don't like the graphics, so you never pay attention to them. ;) Just look away from the graphics, focus on gameplay, and google some indie games... You'll be amazed.

Indie games is the only hope for this genre to get out of the endless cycle of regurgitated garbage being vomited at us over and over again. Money means absolutely nothing, as these gigantic companies have proven they can make a crappy game with millions of dollars, it's time to prove that ideas don't cost anything.

I predict the big companies will continue to make the same old crap for a couple more years, while an indie game will hit it big, causing the big companies to jump on the bandwagon in the same way they did with WoW.

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Indie games is the only hope for this genre to get out of the endless cycle of regurgitated garbage being vomited at us over and over again. Money means absolutely nothing, as these gigantic companies have proven they can make a crappy game with millions of dollars, it's time to prove that ideas don't cost anything.

I predict the big companies will continue to make the same old crap for a couple more years, while an indie game will hit it big, causing the big companies to jump on the bandwagon in the same way they did with WoW.

My thoughts on the matter exactly.  Also for the other posts that tried to think of other Indie MMO's, an obvious omission is Jumpgate (original).  The most difficult issue here is what a person considers 'success' to be.  When I played Jumpgate it had the best community, ground breaking ideas for an MMO and I am yet to see half of those ideas implemented in new MMO's.  Yet at any given time there may have been 400-1000 players in the universe.  Tiny compared to the massive MMO's out there today.  However the chat, PvP and RP elements were far superior in a lot ways.  So IMO it was a massive success and I think that was a team of 4-6. 

As Abrahmm stated already I can see an indie company making a game that takes off and then all the big players will jump on the idea.  So either an indie firm will make a successful game or they will revolutionise MMO gameplay which will then be hijacked by the big companies. 

Op I agree 100%,  I started playing mmo's with a small independent game, it had bugs the graphics werent the best, but the features in that game were the best ive ever seen and I doubt ill ever experience a mmo where you can actually lose again.

After a few mmo's I made my jump to a mainstream mmo, it was polished and had beautiful graphics and detailed scenery, sure it was fun for awhile, but without the features the polish and beauty didnt hold up in long term enjoyment.

So now I find myself, looking forward to the really unique independent mmos again. I will try every game you listed and I hope they use the freedom of not having someone telling what they cant do to fully make a great game. Without these small budget independent mmos, the big companies would have nothing to steal from and we end up with the attack of the clone situations we have right now.

Originally posted by Specs_mmo

So much is riding on the shoulders of Darkfall.

 

I am not a DF fanboy, but I recognize that it is showing promise. Wide open world, fun pvp, etc. MMos need something to re-energize the genre! Let's face it, most MMO gamers are either content Wow players, or really really bored gamers who are desperate for something to grab their attention.

I think the OP sort of ruined the thread by including vaporware like Darkfall. You shouldn't include Darkfall in any serious discussions until a Beta of the game is reviewed by credible sources, like PC Gamer, Ten Ton Hammer, or someone like that.

Originally posted by EvilGargamel

Originally posted by oronisi

Originally posted by shadenis

Originally posted by TenSpotting

The only indie developer that has ever launched a successful MMORPG is CCP and Eve Online.

That's about it.

Not a good track record if you ask me.

 

Let's fix this a bit.

 

Turbine AC etc. they started small

Mythic DAOC, not allot of money spend on the project but hey, they made 500 k !

 

Sure AC started small until they were picked up by Microsoft. AC would have never made it if that did not happen.

Mythic had tons of experience and had plenty of money before making DAOC. They had lots of smaller multiplayer games selling through their online gaming center like MageStorm. It was even offered through America Online.

The odds that any indy company (that doesn't have tons of money to hire a pro team) making a commercial grade MMORPG is very slim.

I don't expect any of these games on this list to become anything more than C grade products IF they even lanuch at all.

There's alot more that goes into making a MMORPG then coding and art. You need good support, good updates, great marketing.. a good publisher..

What's stopping these new Indie games from getting picked up by a publisher? APB has a publisher. Jumpgate is published by Codemasters. Even EVE/CCP started out with a publisher then later I've read CCP detached from the publisher

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Indie games is the only hope for this genre to get out of the endless cycle of regurgitated garbage being vomited at us over and over again. Money means absolutely nothing, as these gigantic companies have proven they can make a crappy game with millions of dollars, it's time to prove that ideas don't cost anything.

I predict the big companies will continue to make the same old crap for a couple more years, while an indie game will hit it big, causing the big companies to jump on the bandwagon in the same way they did with WoW.

^^^ Wisdom

Will the indie and small title MMOs deliver?  I hope so, because the AAA MMOs have made it very clear that they aren't up to the task.  Sure, they have enough money to generate hype through heavy marketing, but every single one of them fails to meet expectations and retain customers.  WoW was an anomoly, no one else will be able to recreate that type of success, not even Blizzard.

How does the saying go?  You can polish a turd all you want, but it's still a turd.  I guess this is true every where except the entertainment industry.  With movies, music ,and games, all you have to do is shovel together a steaming pile and pay some one enough money to paint and polish it...

Well as more and more tools get written to write MMO's the cost of making them will come down some.  This will give the indie companies a chance.  It is only  a matter of time before one hits the big time.  As to Darkfall, trying to do too much with a small team pretty much relegates this game to a real long shot.   Some of the other probably have a better chance.

Latching on to anyting and calling it a trend?

The requirement for a game is commercial sucess (i.e. making money). Without this, no matter how good the game is, no one will ever want to duplicate it... and as such the good ideas are lost.

Next year (2009) there will be at least half a dozen indie titles, as well as 20 (and still counting) commerical titles of various sizes. This means that whatever games thrive in this enviornment will be the games that are replicated (in 3 years).

The MMO industry isnt failing, in fact, despite a down economy (in the US) it is growing like never before. This is why every game maker is trying to get thier piece of the market.

Expect to see changes in the market because of the fierce competition... but remember that people vote with thier wallets, and that whatever makes the money, is what you will be seeing more of.