Here is a phrase for you... "you can put 200 million dollars into marketing a goat that dont shit in the house and brings in ur mail... and put 20 bucks into posters of a cute little puppy that will piss on ur new shoes... but people are gonna buy what they like and would rather look/research too find that little puppy  and say fuck the ugly goat who wants that... 

Point of the story is everyone who plays MMOs and likes them mostly comes to sites like this one or other gaming sites too look for other MMOs and Darkfall is on every MMO site and most ppl that play MMOs read were people are talking about darkfall in global chat...  Darkfall doesn't need to invest a million dollars in there marketing system like WoW because it's next generation and thats what 75% of the MMO community is waiting for... word of mouth is the biggest marketing system in the world and right now darkfall is coming outta so many MMO fans mouths everyone will hear about it by its release date...

I see darkfall having about 250k ppl that buy the game when its released and if its stable & they deliver the features they promise, it will grow off that.

I would bet 150k of them will be US MMO players... rest euro and asia/and some aussies in there.

Good post. 

Be prepared for trolls to try and convince you that you are wrong and an idiot though and that the very basic marketing philosophy that you outlined there is silly or something to that extent.

Some people just cant stand that Darkfall is comming.  Others simply dont like pvp, especially hardcore pvp, and are jealous that the people they view as "elitest griefers" are getting a game that excites them so much.

Dreams... so nice to dream... aaah.

Anyway, back to the real world.. where normal people live.

Originally posted by Kasimir

Dreams... so nice to dream... aaah.

 

Anyway, back to the real world.. where normal people live.

Yep back to the real world where OP makes 100% sense...allow me to drop some actual business knowledge all up on your ass (talking like a gangsta makes me feel important)

I sat down with an entrepreneur last week who had developed a very simple guitar accessory.  It was something so simple that it had never been thought of.  (if someone actually tries to argue that im pulling this out of my ass, ill post the product but since the point is about the marketing im going to leave it out for now)

Problem is he is a nobody and some of the higher ups in the major guitar stores and companies that would buy this from him didnt give him the time of day at first.

Eventually this entrepreneur developed a very word of mouth marketing strategy and has since sold 2500 units of his product.  And has now been featured in guitar magazines and is closing in on booking a huge deal with manufacturers for exclusive rights to package his product with their product.

This entrepreneur didnt have a 200mil marketing budget.  He had a website and word of mouth carry his product.  After some time spent at shows and giving out free promos (this guy was about 25k in the hole after patenting his idea and manufacturing) he now has his product on the lips of many musicians who are saying "wow we NEED that".

Yup real world story where world of mouth + an exceptional product that the consumer has a desire for makes for a success story.  Not a 200mil marketing budget.

Yup back to the real world....maybe you want to think that some people actually work and have experience in it before you troll next time.

Cya in game.

DarkFall don't need no marketing. All it needs is word of mouth. If the game turns out to be a sleeper hit, the word of mouth will do the rest. This is after all a indie MMO by gamers for gamers. Most game developers who work for all the big companies barely play any other games and don't have the perspective on gaming as a long time Pc gamer would have. Where as indie developers do.

Ok, Spread the word guys and girls...

Ive already told 2 friends and im trying to flood  forums aswell :p

Yea.. word by mouth is a good thing.

BUT! when it comes to the people who have never played a mmo b4 wow, dont come to forums like this.

Sry for that, but wow is an mmo.

And alot of them have no idea of the other games that is out there, or is comming.

They have settled with wow and thinks its the only game to play with their friends.

Because they dont know what an mmo is.

Catch my drift?

In the mind of the consumer ,wow is the only game for them.

So what DF needs to do is start finding those ppl.

Change the way the consumer thinks of mmos.

Its all in the mind of the consumer :p

First impression.

Im not sure of what kind of player base they want in DF, but with the kind of features DF offers.

Id say millions of people can play it..

I can add that we have seen two games fail the last months.

Why is that u think?

well... First we have the content, people tend to go for max lvl as fast as possible and then they think , hey now the game starts. Ok so we have content from start to the end that the games lack.

Second we have all the buggs and functions/features that doesnt work.

So if we want people to be happy with their new mmo, these two things must work.

Otherwise people will just leave, going back to old mmos that already have content from start to finish. And i mean alot of content.

And that are bugg free.

So to release a sucessfull mmo, u must have content from start to finish and be prepared that players hit the end content fast.

Its the hardcore players that influence the rest of how the game is.

Also buggs must be kept at minimum.

Darkfall needs to deliver on its promises.  If it does(or close to all of them), they will be fine.  However if DF is missing a lot of its features or is imbalanced or the gameplay is poor then all the marketing in the world won't save it.

Games always run better on peoples imaginations than they do in reality and thats one big thing Darkfall has going for it.

Also, its hard enough for a game to reach 150K+ subscribers when its available to buy in all video game stores.  How is DF going to reach that number when its not going to be on a single North American store shelf?  This is a download only game at launch.  If the game was so great, why can't they get a publisher to market the game in North America?

Anyways I digress. I'm a fan of Darkfall but to date I've seen no evidence this game can live up to any of its promises.  I hope it does and we will see soon enough.

I just think it's silly to blindly believe something from a company none of us know know solely on their say so. Seeing is believing and all we have seen is they have a working game engine.

Originally posted by originalegg

Yep back to the real world where OP makes 100% sense...allow me to drop some actual business knowledge all up on your ass (talking like a gangsta makes me feel important)

I sat down with an entrepreneur last week who had developed a very simple guitar accessory.  It was something so simple that it had never been thought of.  (if someone actually tries to argue that im pulling this out of my ass, ill post the product but since the point is about the marketing im going to leave it out for now)

Problem is he is a nobody and some of the higher ups in the major guitar stores and companies that would buy this from him didnt give him the time of day at first.

Eventually this entrepreneur developed a very word of mouth marketing strategy and has since sold 2500 units of his product.  And has now been featured in guitar magazines and is closing in on booking a huge deal with manufacturers for exclusive rights to package his product with their product.

This entrepreneur didnt have a 200mil marketing budget.  He had a website and word of mouth carry his product.  After some time spent at shows and giving out free promos (this guy was about 25k in the hole after patenting his idea and manufacturing) he now has his product on the lips of many musicians who are saying "wow we NEED that".

Yup real world story where world of mouth + an exceptional product that the consumer has a desire for makes for a success story.  Not a 200mil marketing budget.

Yup back to the real world....maybe you want to think that some people actually work and have experience in it before you troll next time.

Cya in game.

And you still don't think you'r a fanboy just yet? I'm amused how you exploded over that comment. Oh gosh, you even added your classic "Cya in game".

A huge marketing budget does not make for a great game, see AOC.

If they were trying to get 1 mil players then yes, they would have to market the game much more then they are. But they are getting pretty decent publicity right now and most of it is free.

If the game is good people will tell their friends and the population will grow. That wont work for a game that is trying to pull in the masses but it could work fine for a game that is only shooting for a couple hundred thousand.

If they get just the old school UO, AC, EQ (who hate what PVE games have turned into) and Shadowbane players then they will have a decent sized playerbase.

All I can really say is it's their loss if they don't want to market their game. The first months might be kinda rough for them money wise without the market player-base support.

But they seem like rich bastards anyway to be able to keep the game up for all those years and spending all those millions into the project (if it's really true that is)

Originally posted by originalegg

Originally posted by Kasimir

Dreams... so nice to dream... aaah.

 

Anyway, back to the real world.. where normal people live.

 

Yep back to the real world where OP makes 100% sense...allow me to drop some actual business knowledge all up on your ass (talking like a gangsta makes me feel important)

I sat down with an entrepreneur last week who had developed a very simple guitar accessory.  It was something so simple that it had never been thought of.  (if someone actually tries to argue that im pulling this out of my ass, ill post the product but since the point is about the marketing im going to leave it out for now)

Problem is he is a nobody and some of the higher ups in the major guitar stores and companies that would buy this from him didnt give him the time of day at first.

Eventually this entrepreneur developed a very word of mouth marketing strategy and has since sold 2500 units of his product.  And has now been featured in guitar magazines and is closing in on booking a huge deal with manufacturers for exclusive rights to package his product with their product.

This entrepreneur didnt have a 200mil marketing budget.  He had a website and word of mouth carry his product.  After some time spent at shows and giving out free promos (this guy was about 25k in the hole after patenting his idea and manufacturing) he now has his product on the lips of many musicians who are saying "wow we NEED that".

Yup real world story where world of mouth + an exceptional product that the consumer has a desire for makes for a success story.  Not a 200mil marketing budget.

Yup back to the real world....maybe you want to think that some people actually work and have experience in it before you troll next time.

Cya in game.

wow no need to have a cry dude, im a fan of darkfall but i think the only downfall this game will have is that they do not give the community enough information =[ i really want to game to deeeestrooooooy world of warcraft to tiny little pieces but yea,  thats not the point =| i think lack of marketing is a slight downfall but if the game launches as good as it looks, it wont need advertising. word of mouth will make this game spread quiker then .....butter on toast??? anyway i fail at jokes

what was it ur friend invented??? i play bass guitar and im very curious to see what ur mate guitar person invented

Originally posted by originalegg

Good post. 

Be prepared for trolls to try and convince you that you are wrong and an idiot though and that the very basic marketing philosophy that you outlined there is silly or something to that extent.

Some people just cant stand that Darkfall is comming.  Others simply dont like pvp, especially hardcore pvp, and are jealous that the people they view as "elitest griefers" are getting a game that excites them so much.

 Automated Fanboy Response System.

Back on topic:

I think the key to success is a good line of communication between the developers and the community. Marketing comes at a 2nd place, really. My 2 cents.

I have to agree here, a big marketing play doesnt make a game. If a game is good then word will spread and many will come to that game that has good a good feedback. This then would not cost hundreds of thousands of £/$'s and would save the company from forking out for something they clearly (if the game is good enough) wont need to do.

Many games in my opinion that have huge marketing runs do quite frankly turn out to be a bag of shit, very dissapointing gameplay and loads of bugs. Quite frankly, i can see why piracy has hit an all time high thesedays. Would you be satisfied with a half done game, with more bugs than a bugsnest and poor playability/gameplay (may have nice graphics but completable in 4hrs) aint my idea of a good game either.

Same with online games, though these need to be good, need to be nice graphically too (if your paying a monthly subscription). Service for them also needs to be top. Companies now see that there is a huge market out there for online subscriptional games. They just tend to release the same old story and gameplay. Someone needs to take an initiative and if they release orcs/zombies/dwarves etc games, then for gods sake make it new and not just another rewrite of whats already out at the moment.

---

Originally posted by originalegg

---

Originally posted by Kasimir

Dreams... so nice to dream... aaah.
 
Anyway, back to the real world.. where normal people live.

---

 
Yep back to the real world where OP makes 100% sense...allow me to drop some actual business knowledge all up on your ass (talking like a gangsta makes me feel important)
I sat down with an entrepreneur last week who had developed a very simple guitar accessory.  It was something so simple that it had never been thought of.  (if someone actually tries to argue that im pulling this out of my ass, ill post the product but since the point is about the marketing im going to leave it out for now)
Problem is he is a nobody and some of the higher ups in the major guitar stores and companies that would buy this from him didnt give him the time of day at first.
Eventually this entrepreneur developed a very word of mouth marketing strategy and has since sold 2500 units of his product.  And has now been featured in guitar magazines and is closing in on booking a huge deal with manufacturers for exclusive rights to package his product with their product.
This entrepreneur didnt have a 200mil marketing budget.  He had a website and word of mouth carry his product.  After some time spent at shows and giving out free promos (this guy was about 25k in the hole after patenting his idea and manufacturing) he now has his product on the lips of many musicians who are saying "wow we NEED that".
Yup real world story where world of mouth + an exceptional product that the consumer has a desire for makes for a success story.  Not a 200mil marketing budget.
Yup back to the real world....maybe you want to think that some people actually work and have experience in it before you troll next time.
Cya in game.

---

While I'll agree marketing doesn't make the game. Saying the OP made 100% sense is about as much sense as saying the election of 08 makes sense. I didn't see one punctuation throughout his whole post. I have seen 4th graders complete better sentences.

Once again you are just leaning (or bending) over for your favorite past time of defending DF. Why he picked a goat and a puppy as an analogy is beyond me, but it wasn't a good way to describe the situation or prove a point.

Lastly you are talking about a product it is different then a game, people need material goods but virtual is a different story. While word of mouth may work good for "Granny Grace's Special Apple Pie Dishes", it won't do jack to an impact on a virtual product. This is why you see advertising on this site and this is why you see advertising all over the web. It works and for a virtual product it is one of the biggest important factor of success.

Originally posted by Herithius

Games always run better on peoples imaginations than they do in reality and thats one big thing Darkfall has going for it.

Also, its hard enough for a game to reach 150K+ subscribers when its available to buy in all video game stores.  How is DF going to reach that number when its not going to be on a single North American store shelf?  This is a download only game at launch.  If the game was so great, why can't they get a publisher to market the game in North America?

Anyways I digress. I'm a fan of Darkfall but to date I've seen no evidence this game can live up to any of its promises.  I hope it does and we will see soon enough.

I just think it's silly to blindly believe something from a company none of us know know solely on their say so. Seeing is believing and all we have seen is they have a working game engine.

Give the man a common sense award.

I think the OP has missed the point of a lot of criticism about lack of marketing. The point is, if Aventurine have this great groundbreaking product why are they only showing it to a few people in Greece? Why does all the information come in dubious whisperings? Why has no one played it yet? Why are there no real gameplay videos? Oh, and why did it crash on the only occasion it has been shown in public? Public being some bloke and his dog in Greece.

I think we all can agree on that if you want to have a sucessfull mmo, you need it to be as bugg free as possible upon release.

And having aloooot of content, and end content aswell.

Otherwise u will never be able to compete agianst the already established mmos.

Im not sure that the majorety wants to spend months in a game that is not polished enough.

Spending time on an mmo is a must, even if it takes years after years..

We have seen what happens to an mmo that is not polished, even after months of work after release..

Originally posted by DuraheLL

Originally posted by originalegg

Yep back to the real world where OP makes 100% sense...allow me to drop some actual business knowledge all up on your ass (talking like a gangsta makes me feel important)

I sat down with an entrepreneur last week who had developed a very simple guitar accessory.  It was something so simple that it had never been thought of.  (if someone actually tries to argue that im pulling this out of my ass, ill post the product but since the point is about the marketing im going to leave it out for now)

Problem is he is a nobody and some of the higher ups in the major guitar stores and companies that would buy this from him didnt give him the time of day at first.

Eventually this entrepreneur developed a very word of mouth marketing strategy and has since sold 2500 units of his product.  And has now been featured in guitar magazines and is closing in on booking a huge deal with manufacturers for exclusive rights to package his product with their product.

This entrepreneur didnt have a 200mil marketing budget.  He had a website and word of mouth carry his product.  After some time spent at shows and giving out free promos (this guy was about 25k in the hole after patenting his idea and manufacturing) he now has his product on the lips of many musicians who are saying "wow we NEED that".

Yup real world story where world of mouth + an exceptional product that the consumer has a desire for makes for a success story.  Not a 200mil marketing budget.

Yup back to the real world....maybe you want to think that some people actually work and have experience in it before you troll next time.

Cya in game.

And you still don't think you'r a fanboy just yet? I'm amused how you exploded over that comment. Oh gosh, you even added your classic "Cya in game".

Oh cmon get real.  MMORPG.com is regarded as one of the most ridiculous forums around for a reason....there are no fans or skeptics....just fanbois and trolls.  No middle ground anymore.  You implying that i dont think im a fanboi is just /sigh.

And yup when you cant argue against a well thought out point...just attack the person who made it to try and discredit.  Standard.

Originally posted by Hashbrick

 

---

Originally posted by originalegg

---

Originally posted by Kasimir

 

Dreams... so nice to dream... aaah.
 
Anyway, back to the real world.. where normal people live.

---

 

 
Yep back to the real world where OP makes 100% sense...allow me to drop some actual business knowledge all up on your ass (talking like a gangsta makes me feel important)
I sat down with an entrepreneur last week who had developed a very simple guitar accessory.  It was something so simple that it had never been thought of.  (if someone actually tries to argue that im pulling this out of my ass, ill post the product but since the point is about the marketing im going to leave it out for now)
Problem is he is a nobody and some of the higher ups in the major guitar stores and companies that would buy this from him didnt give him the time of day at first.
Eventually this entrepreneur developed a very word of mouth marketing strategy and has since sold 2500 units of his product.  And has now been featured in guitar magazines and is closing in on booking a huge deal with manufacturers for exclusive rights to package his product with their product.
This entrepreneur didnt have a 200mil marketing budget.  He had a website and word of mouth carry his product.  After some time spent at shows and giving out free promos (this guy was about 25k in the hole after patenting his idea and manufacturing) he now has his product on the lips of many musicians who are saying "wow we NEED that".
Yup real world story where world of mouth + an exceptional product that the consumer has a desire for makes for a success story.  Not a 200mil marketing budget.
Yup back to the real world....maybe you want to think that some people actually work and have experience in it before you troll next time.
Cya in game.

---

 

While I'll agree marketing doesn't make the game. Saying the OP made 100% sense is about as much sense as saying the election of 08 makes sense. I didn't see one punctuation throughout his whole post. I have seen 4th graders complete better sentences.

Once again you are just leaning (or bending) over for your favorite past time of defending DF. Why he picked a goat and a puppy as an analogy is beyond me, but it wasn't a good way to describe the situation or prove a point.

Lastly you are talking about a product it is different then a game, people need material goods but virtual is a different story. While word of mouth may work good for "Granny Grace's Special Apple Pie Dishes", it won't do jack to an impact on a virtual product. This is why you see advertising on this site and this is why you see advertising all over the web. It works and for a virtual product it is one of the biggest important factor of success.

I was hoping you would be at least open enough to accept something that wasnt directly related to DF, but obviously your trolling knows no limits.

I have a degree in marketing and a few years of experience in the industry under my belt.  Im still relatively young so im no old master, but know enough that the whole "goat and puppy" analogy that the OP laid out is a well accepted philosophy concerning the psychology of the consumer.

Thats just fact man and im not going to convince you because you never actually open yourself to the other end of arguements.  I have my guard up at times too, but this isnt really a discussion thing.  OP DOES make 100% sense.

Originally posted by WOTDOUPLAY

Originally posted by originalegg

Originally posted by Kasimir

Dreams... so nice to dream... aaah.

 

Anyway, back to the real world.. where normal people live.

 

Yep back to the real world where OP makes 100% sense...allow me to drop some actual business knowledge all up on your ass (talking like a gangsta makes me feel important)

I sat down with an entrepreneur last week who had developed a very simple guitar accessory.  It was something so simple that it had never been thought of.  (if someone actually tries to argue that im pulling this out of my ass, ill post the product but since the point is about the marketing im going to leave it out for now)

Problem is he is a nobody and some of the higher ups in the major guitar stores and companies that would buy this from him didnt give him the time of day at first.

Eventually this entrepreneur developed a very word of mouth marketing strategy and has since sold 2500 units of his product.  And has now been featured in guitar magazines and is closing in on booking a huge deal with manufacturers for exclusive rights to package his product with their product.

This entrepreneur didnt have a 200mil marketing budget.  He had a website and word of mouth carry his product.  After some time spent at shows and giving out free promos (this guy was about 25k in the hole after patenting his idea and manufacturing) he now has his product on the lips of many musicians who are saying "wow we NEED that".

Yup real world story where world of mouth + an exceptional product that the consumer has a desire for makes for a success story.  Not a 200mil marketing budget.

Yup back to the real world....maybe you want to think that some people actually work and have experience in it before you troll next time.

Cya in game.

 

wow no need to have a cry dude, im a fan of darkfall but i think the only downfall this game will have is that they do not give the community enough information =[ i really want to game to deeeestrooooooy world of warcraft to tiny little pieces but yea,  thats not the point =| i think lack of marketing is a slight downfall but if the game launches as good as it looks, it wont need advertising. word of mouth will make this game spread quiker then .....butter on toast??? anyway i fail at jokes

what was it ur friend invented??? i play bass guitar and im very curious to see what ur mate guitar person invented

DF will not destroy WoW...wont even be a mosquito bite to it.  Never was meant to.

Anyways to answer your question...

First of all to clarify - he isnt my friend...just someone I met once through a mutual business contact recently and heard his story.

Im not a musician, so forgive me if im a little off with the actual phrases revolving the product.  He Invented an accesory more specifically for the "effects pedal" for the guitar. 

It is called the "Option Knob" and the website can be found here www.optionknob.com/

You can find some youtube videos showing it in use as well.  Basically it is a simple solution that is more effective than its competitors that are up to 30x more expensive.  Again I have no experience with the guitar, and may have been biased by his explanation of how his product differs from the competition, but after seeing some of the similar products this definitely makes sense.