Originally posted by AlloughN

Or maybe its time to get a different type of MMO company. One that cares for the role play experience of each and every player, not of the individual fans or the mainstream WOW players. One that is more like a good friend than a parent.

This here might be your problem.  There's no MMO company that's your friend or your parent.  You know why?  They're a company, and like any company, they're there to make money. 

Here's a thought though.  If you have no Star Trek MMO currently, and Cryptic puts one out with some of the features you want, but not all, isn't that better than nothing?  You can cry about how disappointed you are or you can be thankful they're creating the only Star Trek MMO out.  One will leave you feeling bitter while the other will make you happy.  It's all about perspective.

Crying is for after, I'm not whining about not getting what I want. All I am asking is for Cryptic to consider it.

And I will play it, just because its Star Trek.

And your right, there is no big coporation that even thinks of its players, its money.

But, there are some indie companies that are your friends, I think the big companies could learn a lesson or two. I hate to keep bringing up SQO, but its devs are role models, they are on the forums everyday, chatting with their players. Sometimes they even log in the game and play with us. I'm not suggesting Cryptic play alongside us, but I am suggesting they listen more to the players, STO will be a hard to build, and the would be players have a lot of really good ideas.

ill play the game whatever is said or happens, im too chicken to bail out on not testing it :)

Originally posted by Zertyr

ill play the game whatever is said or happens, im too chicken to bail out on not testing it :)

 

 

lol, I'll be playing it to, at least for a while. I'm just pleading that they dont make it a WOW in space type of game. 

I think a reasonable solution to the ship dilemma is to make it flexible for all. Like this:

You can have crew of players in the ship ... full compliment or at least the most important posts. May be like this: smaller ships group of 6-7 players to fill all stations, for bigger ships ~12 players.

But to prevent endless waiting on Starports to find enough players for your crew in order to get in space it can be flexible, by replacing the empty stations by NPCs, who will react moderatlely, thus leaving advantage to ship who have the full crew of players. You still can fly alone and NPCs will help you, but its better to have alive crew.

I don't see anything complicated in such system. There are games where you can walk in your ship while flying.

lets all just hope for the best and not judge it until we can play it and see ourselves

I need to say some things...

1.  DO NOT tell me that there is a limit on any posible type of game.  If they can THINK it, they can create it.  It simply comes down to them drawing some imaginary line in the sand and saying "this is where we won't go"...  I KNOW ANYTHING can be done.  We have thousands of satelites in orbit for crying out loud, we've been to the damn moon, don't tell me we "can't do that because it's too hard"

The company looks at the ideas, then the cost... then they throw out ideas to increase profitability.  GREED is the ONLY answer for why some feature is not in a game.  Because they want money sooner rather than later.  PERIOD.

We need GAMERS.  NOT SUITS.  GAMERS need to be the ones in control of design, and get the suits off their backs with imaginary time lines.  let them do it right, and the numbers will come in.  just not the numbers THEY want.

again, look at second life... still growing, still growing....the concept of FREE ANDOPEN model SELLS.  sandbox SELLS.  but give dev teams what they need to do it right... TIME.

one can only hope for the best... not just another EVE .

I rarely say this but this game is going to be a epic fail...   with all the other MMO out there and ones releasing this game stands no chance of surviving... hopefuly im wrong for those who want to play this but this game does not appeal too me at all and I play basicly all MMOs that are on the market!

I also enjoy playing and developing a character as opposed to being a starship. Why cant we have both? It's like eating cake with nothing to wash it down, or buying a car with no wheels.

I feel the options should be limitless with STO.. I believe the player should start off as an actual character with the options of being whatever he or she wishes.  Give us the opportunity to train any skill we want to become whatever we want. As we progress in level or skill, earn enough money, etc, we then could possibly buy our own ship.. But, what i think would be even better is, you can only purchase a ship if your part of at least a 10 man guild that is of an appropriate guild level. Each person has to have their own area of expertise, like mechanic, pilot, navigator, etc.

So, when you begin the game, you start out on a planet to learn your desired trade, find some buddies to quest and fight with, work your way up, buy a ship, explore space, and other planets, get into some sweet ship wars, and have the option of landing on planets to fight alongside your buddies, etc.

I dont understand why this cant be done.. The devs can easily make a solar system. Basically games like canguard, eq, eq2, wow, etc have large masses of water. Now lets relate that to STO and say the solar system's space is like large bodies of water which is mostly filled with nothing. how hard would it be to create a solar system to travel, and allow us to fight and explore on ground..

I dunno, maybe it will take to much time and effort to produce, *shrugs* but i think it could be done if the company actually cared enough to make it happen.

these ass holes

I guess this was moderated........

Cryptic lost me at no PSI's

Cryptic can burn in hell.

Originally posted by AlloughN

Its Star Trek, its a MMO, it has great (even if somwhat comic) graphics. But,, its nothing new.

I have watched almost every Star Trek movie and episode. Almost every sci-fi flick actually, BSG, Stargare, Star Wars, etc. My imagination would run wild, when I was younger, I used to build bridge "sets" out of carboard and markers.  I sat at consoles, and blew up imaginary enemies, I ran down corridors (my mom used to yell at me for leaving rubber skid marks on the hallways floors) to repair a damaged system before it could explode and ruin my entire day.   That is my dream, to be able to live out in detail, the life of my fantasy.

In pretty much every sci-fi MMO to date, EVE for example, you are your ship, thats it.... In Anarchy Online, you are actually a character, but you are tied to the ground.

Cryptic has a huge amount of lore, money, and not to mention to tremendous fan-base. They have the opertunity to take space MMO's to the next level, the personal one. And what do they do? A half baked approach that you usually relate to Microsoft. You are a character on planets, that they got right, but as soon as you enter your ship, you turn into a ship. Sure, boarding battle sequences put you on to a map of your bridge to fight it out, but thats not my dream, I am not tied to a bridge.

Cryptic, you have disappointed me. You have the absolute best odds, and you are failing in this area of gameplay.

I want to be a character, never, ever, a starship. I want combat to be based off my own skill, not that of my avatars skill level.

I want the other people on my ship to be players, not "bridge crew" or red-shirts. I want a unpredictable, human being at my side, not a NPC.

I want the freedom of a virtual world, like the pen and paper rpg's of old, I want the freedom of those old carboard box sets, and that black streaked hallway of my moms house. I want to be free of the standards set by the current generation of space based MMO's.

I respect your opinion but I don't have a problem with anything they are doing so far.
 

That's like me telling everyone how much StarQuest Online fails me just by looking at something, let's say like this -

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=HCOMr-8y9rI

I haven't played StarQuest Online.... Neither have I played Star Trek Online.

Originally posted by wolfmann

Originally posted by AlloughN

I know of a indie company that is producing a space MMO that does everything I dreamed of. You can walk through every last corridor and room in the bigger ships. Smaller ships, like fighters, you essentially enter through a hatch, and sit in a chair. The amount of players you can have on the ships are as many as you can cram aboard and still be able to walk. The ships functions are controlled by 9 main separate stations, for just traveling, you only need one player on. For maximum efficiency in combat, you need all 9 stations manned by players. Firing weapons,  using shields, making repairs, upgrades, the building of the ships from the ground up are all manually done by players. And its just as immersive on the planet side.  Talk about infinite possibilities..

And the setting of that game, its a real starmap, made by telescope and satellite imagery. There are over 17,000 star systems, with over 100,000 unique planets. According to the devs of that game, they havent even seen all the systems, yet alone the planets in it.

Combat, whether PvP or PvE is open, it can take place anywhere, on planets, in star systems, and even in hyperspace, or deep space, between star systems.

If a indie company, with limited resources, with its devs working on it in their spare time, can do it. It should be childs play for a big well financed company like Cryptic.

 

Oh but see here, that would only atract Trekkies.

MMO companies don't want Trekkies! They want MAINSTREAM audiences.

You and your Data cotume and "KHAAAAN" battlecry can go hide in yer basement...

 

History has shown that there is no corporation and MMO company in existance that "care" for the IP they buy and the fans it comes with. They want the IP for thwe name recognition, so that when they aproach the mainstream, they will be recognized...Thats all.

 

So, if yer smart... turn mainstream, ditch any notion of being a fan, ditch any idea of being an individual(thats soo not mainstream), and start baaa'ing..Like a sheep. Then you are mainstream, and the corporations, investors, marketings and developers would toss MMO's at you like a friggin machingun.

Well funny that you said that cause Dark fall has/had a pretty high fan base just off of predictions of what the game is going to be like. Another example is Everquest. Noone knew about EQ yet it became popular. IMO if the content is there the people WILL come. Once a company delivers a quality//innovative//stable game it WILL become popular. The playerbase of WoW atm is just a bunch of tired people just looking for a good game to come out.

.

Originally posted by wolfmann

Originally posted by AlloughN

I know of a indie company that is producing a space MMO that does everything I dreamed of. You can walk through every last corridor and room in the bigger ships. Smaller ships, like fighters, you essentially enter through a hatch, and sit in a chair. The amount of players you can have on the ships are as many as you can cram aboard and still be able to walk. The ships functions are controlled by 9 main separate stations, for just traveling, you only need one player on. For maximum efficiency in combat, you need all 9 stations manned by players. Firing weapons,  using shields, making repairs, upgrades, the building of the ships from the ground up are all manually done by players. And its just as immersive on the planet side.  Talk about infinite possibilities..

And the setting of that game, its a real starmap, made by telescope and satellite imagery. There are over 17,000 star systems, with over 100,000 unique planets. According to the devs of that game, they havent even seen all the systems, yet alone the planets in it.

Combat, whether PvP or PvE is open, it can take place anywhere, on planets, in star systems, and even in hyperspace, or deep space, between star systems.

If a indie company, with limited resources, with its devs working on it in their spare time, can do it. It should be childs play for a big well financed company like Cryptic.

 

Oh but see here, that would only atract Trekkies.

MMO companies don't want Trekkies! They want MAINSTREAM audiences.

You and your Data cotume and "KHAAAAN" battlecry can go hide in yer basement...

 

History has shown that there is no corporation and MMO company in existance that "care" for the IP they buy and the fans it comes with. They want the IP for thwe name recognition, so that when they aproach the mainstream, they will be recognized...Thats all.

 

So, if yer smart... turn mainstream, ditch any notion of being a fan, ditch any idea of being an individual(thats soo not mainstream), and start baaa'ing..Like a sheep. Then you are mainstream, and the corporations, investors, marketings and developers would toss MMO's at you like a friggin machingun.

 

And so far everygame that has tried to attract mainstream has pretty much failed or fell short of their expectations.... people that care about Star Trek are Star Trek Fans... not Joe Schmo looking to play the game for a month or 2 then move to the next game. If you want a long term commitment to the game and its playerbase make it for the real fans of the IP and not the rest of the market that dont even like Star Trek...

Originally posted by firefly2003

Originally posted by wolfmann

Originally posted by AlloughN

I know of a indie company that is producing a space MMO that does everything I dreamed of. You can walk through every last corridor and room in the bigger ships. Smaller ships, like fighters, you essentially enter through a hatch, and sit in a chair. The amount of players you can have on the ships are as many as you can cram aboard and still be able to walk. The ships functions are controlled by 9 main separate stations, for just traveling, you only need one player on. For maximum efficiency in combat, you need all 9 stations manned by players. Firing weapons,  using shields, making repairs, upgrades, the building of the ships from the ground up are all manually done by players. And its just as immersive on the planet side.  Talk about infinite possibilities..

And the setting of that game, its a real starmap, made by telescope and satellite imagery. There are over 17,000 star systems, with over 100,000 unique planets. According to the devs of that game, they havent even seen all the systems, yet alone the planets in it.

Combat, whether PvP or PvE is open, it can take place anywhere, on planets, in star systems, and even in hyperspace, or deep space, between star systems.

If a indie company, with limited resources, with its devs working on it in their spare time, can do it. It should be childs play for a big well financed company like Cryptic.

 

Oh but see here, that would only atract Trekkies.

MMO companies don't want Trekkies! They want MAINSTREAM audiences.

You and your Data cotume and "KHAAAAN" battlecry can go hide in yer basement...

 

History has shown that there is no corporation and MMO company in existance that "care" for the IP they buy and the fans it comes with. They want the IP for thwe name recognition, so that when they aproach the mainstream, they will be recognized...Thats all.

 

So, if yer smart... turn mainstream, ditch any notion of being a fan, ditch any idea of being an individual(thats soo not mainstream), and start baaa'ing..Like a sheep. Then you are mainstream, and the corporations, investors, marketings and developers would toss MMO's at you like a friggin machingun.

 

And so far everygame that has tried to attract mainstream has pretty much failed or fell short of their expectations.... people that care about Star Trek are Star Trek Fans... not Joe Schmo looking to play the game for a month or 2 then move to the next game. If you want a long term commitment to the game and its playerbase make it for the real fans of the IP and not the rest of the market that dont even like Star Trek...

 

I disagree. Only way to make a successful game is to make it appeal to more then just the trekkies. Problem with catering to trekkies is that if you do anything that they think doesn't fit with star trek canon they may leave or it. You know the truly hard core ones would. But, if you can appeal to a wider audience you can feel a bit safer knowing that you have players who are there because they like your game.

Originally posted by Wikkedbowtie
 

I disagree. Only way to make a successful game is to make it appeal to more then just the trekkies. Problem with catering to trekkies is that if you do anything that they think doesn't fit with star trek canon they may leave or it. You know the truly hard core ones would. But, if you can appeal to a wider audience you can feel a bit safer knowing that you have players who are there because they like your game.

I think you are too correct.

It's safer to go with regular people who just like the game as opposed to a die hard group who probably know the canon far better than you who will call you on every little decision that you make and in the end will leave the game in a huff if it isn't exaaaaaactly like they have always dreamed about it in their minds.

Of course, I'm still a believer that the gameworld has to be true to the IP. But sometimes you have to allow mmo conventions in order to make the game work.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Wikkedbowtie
 

I disagree. Only way to make a successful game is to make it appeal to more then just the trekkies. Problem with catering to trekkies is that if you do anything that they think doesn't fit with star trek canon they may leave or it. You know the truly hard core ones would. But, if you can appeal to a wider audience you can feel a bit safer knowing that you have players who are there because they like your game.

 

I think you are too correct.

It's safer to go with regular people who just like the game as opposed to a die hard group who probably know the canon far better than you who will call you on every little decision that you make and in the end will leave the game in a huff if it isn't exaaaaaactly like they have always dreamed about it in their minds.

Of course, I'm still a believer that the gameworld has to be true to the IP. But sometimes you have to allow mmo conventions in order to make the game work.

I agree to a point with this. These "Die Hard Trekkies" that everyone keeps bringing up are actually a very vocal minority in the overall Star Trek community. Don't get me wrong as these are the ones that will scream the loudest when the developers step outside of canon. These people are a very small subset of the ST community and it won't really matter if these people get disgruntled and leave. Most of the overall community are very forgiving when it comes to lore and canon and will be more than satisfied as long as the game has an overall "Trek" feel to it.

No. The only way Cryptic could possible screw this up is to make a totally combat centric alien gank fest as that would be very un-Trek like. So far from what I've seen they are not taking this direction so it shouldn't be a problem.

Bren

I made almost an identical post to the OP’s, I think last year or maybe 2 years ago about Perpetual Entertainments design decisions and was wondering why a tiny Indy developer managed to achieve almost everything they and most other people thought was impossible.

I was also hesitant to directly link to SQ’s website because of the usual dismissive “graphics suck” or “not being the captain is boring” comments when its only an example of a working proof of concept that shows it is possible.

But I do think that SQ is fundamentally flawed in some areas like the learning curve, necessary time commitment and the death penalty, but they could be adjusted to make it more appealing to the casual market and are not inherently fundamental problems to the basic core design principles.

Anyway I’ve resigned myself to the fact that :

In space, no one can hear you screaming about the importance of star ship interiors or multiple player crew ships, including whoever’s developing STO at the time.

And that I will almost certainly play STO whenever and by whoever its finally finished by just because its Star Trek anyway, but for how long depends entirely on what design decisions they have made.

Originally posted by Polarization

But I do think that SQ is fundamentally flawed in some areas like the learning curve, necessary time commitment and the death penalty, but they could be adjusted to make it more appealing to the casual market and are not inherently fundamental problems to the basic core design principles.

Those aren't flaws. They're differences. IDIC.

Some ideas should remain an idea instead of becoming a MMORPG.

Star Trek howver, I have no opinion.  I like watching Star Trek: Voyager during my excercise run in the living room.  I can run around for an hour if I watch it as I run (It is a big living room).  I don't even feel tired, power of distraction is amazing.

As a game however, I don't see myself playing it.  Might give it a shot like all other games, but we'll see.

Originally posted by AlloughN

 

I want the other people on my ship to be players, not "bridge crew" or red-shirts. I want a unpredictable, human being at my side, not a NPC.

I want the freedom of a virtual world, like the pen and paper rpg's of old, I want the freedom of those old carboard box sets, and that black streaked hallway of my moms house. I want to be free of the standards set by the current generation of space based MMO's.

Well, have u ever considered that 95% of the players (or some lopsided) number would want to be the captain? There won't be many who are willing to "being at your side" and do your bidding.

Would u like to play a red shirt? or worse yet, a comm officer that does nothing but says "hailing freq open"

Personally, I'd like to see something like this:

When I'm solo playing, I play as captain my ship with an NPC crew.  When I'm playing with a group, I get to be a member of the crew on the leader's ship.