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10/27/08 2:24:30 PM#41
Originally posted by Steelrose
Your article pretends to be an objective review. It doesn't state "in my opinion, the interface is clunky and the community full of idiots..." It says let me paraphrase: the interface is clunky and the community full of idiots. Most of the things you criticise can be criticized in almost every game, depends on what approach you have towards the game. I'm not saying AoC is a good game, the game has great atmosphere for me and otherwise it's an overhyped mess. But the reasons why I dislike it differ from yours and most of the things you dislike I actually enjoy. Review should be informative. I don't want to read your personal opinions, I want information. Sorry, but any time you read a review, 'in my opinion' is logically, and quite obviously, implied. That's what a review is, information presented from a certain point of view. If you want a straight listing of facts, I'd direct you to the product info page at Gamestop.com or something similar. If you read a review by myself or any other writer, expect to get their personal opinions interspersed with the facts. Its really not rocket science. |
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indiramourn
 Hard Core Member
Joined: 12/13/05
MMOs require more reasoning and imagination than most stereotypically ''adult'' activities. |
10/27/08 2:25:55 PM#42
Originally posted by jedifef Or in other words: "Because Funcom released AO in 2001 in a bug-ridden, early-beta state but did manage to turn it into a playable game we can expect them to do the same thing for AoC eventually." But this is not acceptable to me as a "game development philosophy". I refuse to support Funcom for expecting its customers to be paying beta testers. Funcom should fail in this industry if it means tolerating this kind of game release strategy for any future games they develope. |
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10/27/08 2:27:35 PM#43
really? i can find a ton of reviews and editorials in major publications (NY Times, Daily News, etc) in NY which totally destroy whatever they are talking about. Reviews and Editorials are based on personal insight, and what they think of it. If it was a technical review, based strictly on factual numbers such as hardware, costs, etc, then yes, making up this data would not be cool. But this is a review of a game, which takes alot of intangibles into affect. what one person may think is horrible (say huge numbers of quests for examples, which i hate in mmos) may be ideal for someone else.
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10/27/08 2:29:02 PM#44
Originally posted by jedijef
Your article pretends to be an objective review. It doesn't state "in my opinion, the interface is clunky and the community full of idiots..." It says let me paraphrase: the interface is clunky and the community full of idiots. Most of the things you criticise can be criticized in almost every game, depends on what approach you have towards the game. I'm not saying AoC is a good game, the game has great atmosphere for me and otherwise it's an overhyped mess. But the reasons why I dislike it differ from yours and most of the things you dislike I actually enjoy. Review should be informative. I don't want to read your personal opinions, I want information. Sorry, but any time you read a review, 'in my opinion' is logically, and quite obviously, implied. That's what a review is, information presented from a certain point of view. If you want a straight listing of facts, I'd direct you to the product info page at Gamestop.com or something similar. If you read a review by myself or any other writer, expect to get their personal opinions interspersed with the facts. Its really not rocket science. exactly, reviews are BASED on ones experiences, likes, and dislikes. This is not a technical paper he is writing which can be scrutinized for factual content. A Review is an opinion, and each person has their own.
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10/27/08 2:29:12 PM#45
Originally posted by indiramourn Or in other words: "Because Funcom released AO in 2001 in a bug-ridden, early-beta state but did manage to turn it into a playable game we can expect them to do the same thing for AoC eventually." But this is not acceptable to me as a "game development philosophy". I refuse to support Funcom for expecting its customers to be paying beta testers. Funcom should fail in this industry if it means tolerating this kind of game release strategy for any future games they develope.
Its not acceptable to me either, which is why I spent a good portion of the review bashing the game. That said, the potential for a fun game is there, and I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up being a good game down the road. Their recent promotion of Craig Morrison has already begun to bear fruit, in my opinion. |
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10/27/08 2:30:12 PM#46
Originally posted by Deewe
I come here to read what's new about the mmo's community. But when i read review that are obviously biased, i can't help but comment on it. And last time i checked, that's what a forum is about. |
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10/27/08 2:30:53 PM#47
Originally posted by miagisan Destroying the product is fine, insulting a community because of a personal experience isn't IMO. For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson If you can't argue the point don't say anything at all. |
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10/27/08 2:33:13 PM#48
the problem is the community in online mmorpgs is the byproduct of a game.And in mmorpgs, where community is vital since you are dependant on the community, yes, it is valid to critique.
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whisperwynd
 Hard Core Member
Joined: 2/22/06
Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the priviledge to do so as well. |
10/27/08 2:34:39 PM#49
Originally posted by Steelrose
I don't know where you got that Steelrose, but I don't think you read the same article I did. Never did it say the community were full of 'idiots', I read and found it fair and subjective. Yes, subjective, as all reviews are. Do you expect robots to review games instead, without emotion for any part of the game? Even the bugs are emotionally felt as annoying, otherwise ppl wouldn't care about them, they'd simply overlook them and play on for lack of anything better to do since they don't get emotionally involved in anything anyway, right?! Even the technical problems wouldn't be accurate since not everyone has the same rigs and wouldn't experience the same issues. A totally objective review, would inherently be a boring read, since it would just be a list of things that work and don't work. I enjoyed it and thought it mirrored my feelings toward AoC, it won't be be agreed upon with everyone here, and that's just fine. Expecting something other, in a review, than the writer's personal opinion is unrealisitc and somewhat naive. We simply had to read it and accept it as his/her experiences and compare it to ours (if we have them). Being 'offended' by anything it is childish and immaterial, since it hasn't affected anything toward the liking or disliking of the game, maybe simply bruising an ego that happens to be on the other side of the writer's opinion. Such is life. |
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10/27/08 2:34:58 PM#50
Originally posted by Malickie Destroying the product is fine, insulting a community because of a personal experience isn't IMO. and you mean to tell me you were never asked by a friend or guildmate "hey how is this guild?" or "how is the community in this game?" or have never grouped up and found a couple of complete jerks in a group or raid group? Now when these numbers are lower percentages, you can shrug it off to the occasional "asshat", but as the % increase, it very much makes an impact upon a game.
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10/27/08 2:36:47 PM#51
Originally posted by jedijef
Your article pretends to be an objective review. It doesn't state "in my opinion, the interface is clunky and the community full of idiots..." It says let me paraphrase: the interface is clunky and the community full of idiots. Most of the things you criticise can be criticized in almost every game, depends on what approach you have towards the game. I'm not saying AoC is a good game, the game has great atmosphere for me and otherwise it's an overhyped mess. But the reasons why I dislike it differ from yours and most of the things you dislike I actually enjoy. Review should be informative. I don't want to read your personal opinions, I want information. Sorry, but any time you read a review, 'in my opinion' is logically, and quite obviously, implied. That's what a review is, information presented from a certain point of view. If you want a straight listing of facts, I'd direct you to the product info page at Gamestop.com or something similar. If you read a review by myself or any other writer, expect to get their personal opinions interspersed with the facts. Its really not rocket science.
Simply not true. I guess that's a difference between a good review and a bad review. Good review should have no personal opinions. It should be informative and contain facts only. For exmaple it should inform me about the interface (whether it can be resized, how many bars, how is the respond-rate etc). Who the hell cares about his personal opinion? That's what forums are about NOT REVIEWS on a website like this. Just because you and your comrades are bastardized by the maganizes that write video game reviews that includes more personal opinions than an actual facts, doesn't mean a review should have personal opinions. You indeed can critize the interface if the respond-rate is extremly slow, it can't be resized etc, but you can't say the people that play the game are neandertals. That's stupid, childish and the writer should get whipped and an instant kick off from his volunteer unpaid job position. But I guess that's what I'm gonna get very soon. |
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10/27/08 2:41:29 PM#52
Originally posted by Steelrose Sorry, but any time you read a review, 'in my opinion' is logically, and quite obviously, implied. That's what a review is, information presented from a certain point of view. If you want a straight listing of facts, I'd direct you to the product info page at Gamestop.com or something similar. If you read a review by myself or any other writer, expect to get their personal opinions interspersed with the facts. Its really not rocket science.
Simply not true. I guess that's a difference between a good review and a bad review. Good review should have no personal opinions. It should be informative and contain facts only. For exmaple it should inform me about the interface (whether it can be resized, how many bars, how is the respond-rate etc). Who the hell cares about his personal opinion? That's what forums are about NOT REVIEWS on a website like this. Just because you and your comrades are bastardized by the maganizes that write video game reviews that includes more personal opinions than an actual facts, doesn't mean a review should have personal opinions. You indeed can critize the interface if the respond-rate is extremly slow, it can't be resized etc, but you can't say the people that play the game are neandertals. That's stupid, childish and the writer should get whipped and an instant kick off from his volunteer unpaid job position. But I guess that's what I'm gonna get very soon. all reviews and articles are personal opinions, even the dictionary says so
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10/27/08 2:42:04 PM#53
Originally posted by miagisan Again I'm not talking about a critique, it's the insults that came along with the criticism that bothers me. I find it highly unprofessional. If you had a bad experience, it's understandable to comment on it. Calling a community cave men and a bunch of idiots is different. This can differ by circumstance as well, a game is not made up only by the few hundred people you came across. Not when there's the possibility for hundreds of thousands to be playing. That's an important distinction to be made. For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson If you can't argue the point don't say anything at all. |
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10/27/08 2:44:26 PM#54
Originally posted by miagisan and you mean to tell me you were never asked by a friend or guildmate "hey how is this guild?" or "how is the community in this game?" or have never grouped up and found a couple of complete jerks in a group or raid group? Now when these numbers are lower percentages, you can shrug it off to the occasional "asshat", but as the % increase, it very much makes an impact upon a game. I give up, you're just not getting what I'm saying. /sigh For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson If you can't argue the point don't say anything at all. |
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10/27/08 2:44:43 PM#55
Originally posted by Steelrose Sorry, but any time you read a review, 'in my opinion' is logically, and quite obviously, implied. That's what a review is, information presented from a certain point of view. If you want a straight listing of facts, I'd direct you to the product info page at Gamestop.com or something similar. If you read a review by myself or any other writer, expect to get their personal opinions interspersed with the facts. Its really not rocket science.
Simply not true. I guess that's a difference between a good review and a bad review. Good review should have no personal opinions. It should be informative and contain facts only. For exmaple it should inform me about the interface (whether it can be resized, how many bars, how is the respond-rate etc). Who the hell cares about his personal opinion? That's what forums are about NOT REVIEWS on a website like this. Just because you and your comrades are bastardized by the maganizes that write video game reviews that includes more personal opinions than an actual facts, doesn't mean a review should have personal opinions. You indeed can critize the interface if the respond-rate is extremly slow, it can't be resized etc, but you can't say the people that play the game are neandertals. That's stupid, childish and the writer should get whipped and an instant kick off from his volunteer unpaid job position. But I guess that's what I'm gonna get very soon. Steelrose, while I have to confess some amusement, there's really no point in debating this with you. I can and did use the neanderthal comment, and, while some may find it crass, that is my style, and it isn't likely to change because it ruffled a few feathers (quite the contrary actually). As for your other assertions, let me just state that every single thing you said in this post is incorrect, and leave it at that. /salute |
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whisperwynd
Hard Core Member
Joined: 2/22/06
Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the priviledge to do so as well. |
10/27/08 2:45:23 PM#56
Originally posted by Aguitha
I come here to read what's new about the mmo's community. But when i read review that are obviously biased, i can't help but comment on it. And last time i checked, that's what a forum is about. Let me guess this straight...You believe that this site is paid to write their reviews for gaming companies, and you call it typical. Therefor, you must dislike all the reviews here for that same reason. Then why, in your last statement, would you say that you come here and read what's new if you know it's already biased because they get paid to write it in the first place? In conclusion, this logic further suggests that since this is a forum, and you can, at any time, write your comments on said reviews. You will inevitably write contradictory comments about them, since they are initially biased from the start. I'm not trying to flame you, just making you aware that anything can be construed by statements. It just takes the right sequence to turn into something else.
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10/27/08 2:46:03 PM#57
Originally posted by Malickie Again I'm not talking about a critique, it's the insults that came along with the criticism that bothers me. I find it highly unprofessional. If you had a bad experience, it's understandable to comment on it. Calling a community cave men and a bunch of idiots is different. This can differ by circumstance as well, a game is not made up only by the few hundred people you came across. Not when there's the possibility for hundreds of thousands to be playing. That's an important distinction to be made. yes but if i had to write a review on my circumstances, i do include the community, because it is a very large part, if not an integral part of an mmorpg and my experiences within them. Every review i write, and i have written about 6 or 7 now on another website, based on mmorpgs, has included a community aspect, because i tend to get drawn into the community with rp, event, etc. While my reviews have not been kind to AoC's community, i have talked negatively about communities more in games like wow (where i played on a pvp server with guildies) and Hellgate. For me, the community is a HUGE factor in which game i play, and thats probably why i keep going back to games like EQ2 and LOTRO, where i find the communities and rp refreshing and helpful.
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10/27/08 2:47:45 PM#58
Originally posted by jedijef
I ask you as well. Does your line suppose to convince me? Or convince anyone else reading this thread? Or you? When you wake up, do you look at yourself in the mirror and say "You are great, you are fantastic, you are genius"? |
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10/27/08 2:49:07 PM#59
Originally posted by whisperwynd Let me guess this straight...You believe that this site is paid to write their reviews for gaming companies, and you call it typical. Therefor, you must dislike all the reviews here for that same reason. Then why, in your last statement, would you say that you come here and read what's new if you know it's already biased because they get paid to write it in the first place? In conclusion, this logic further suggests that since this is a forum, and you can, at any time, write your comments on said reviews. You will inevitably write contradictory comments about them, since they are initially biased from the start. I'm not trying to flame you, just making you aware that anything can be construed by statements. It just takes the right sequence to turn into something else.
And you think that when they put that HUGE background AOC wallpaper that they do it for free ? I'm not saying they are paid to write review, but they are certainly paid by the game they are reviewing. In my book you can't be credible if you get money from the same guy you review. |
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whisperwynd
Hard Core Member
Joined: 2/22/06
Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the priviledge to do so as well. |
10/27/08 2:51:59 PM#60
Originally posted by Steelrose
I ask you as well. Does your line suppose to convince me? Or convince anyone else reading this thread? Or you? When you wake up, do you look at yourself in the mirror and say "You are great, you are fantastic, you are genius"?
Well, it has certainly convinced me that he's more credible than you are, because he's right. Simple as that. |
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