Summary of WAR classes

Magus/Engineer: horrible DOT damage. Not too many good debuffs. No good utility/CC (except the Rift/Electromagnet which is on a useless tree).

Squig Herder/Shadow Warrior (not mirrors): bad damage

Witch Hunter/Witch Elf: suicidal DPS classes... kill some before you die

Marauder/White Lion: nice DPS... too much CCs limit their effectiveness.. good debuffs and utility

Ironbreaker: best survivability, best damage among tanks, best CC in game

Black Orc: good tank class

Chosen/Swordmaster: not better than BO or IB

ranged Healers: horrible DPS even if you spec for it...takes 40+ seconds to kill a mob... bad CC..good healers

melee healers: best 1v1 classes

Bright Wizard: pure ownage... best DPS in RvR.. tons of CCs.. with a healer around, destroys everything... constant crits... Mythic's favorite

Sorcerer: best DPS in Destruction... nice AoE... remains in the shadow of Bright Wizards due to long casting time spells (= less mobility)

-----

So... if Mythic does not nerf some of these classes and chose to buff the underpowered classes, RvR will turn into pure pew pew with no control. Yet they claim that they will not nerf many of the skills. How is that possible? I can't understand the logic here.

Originally posted by Xtort

Summary of WAR classes

Magus/Engineer: horrible DOT damage. Not too many good debuffs. No good utility/CC (except the Rift/Electromagnet which is on a useless tree).

Squig Herder/Shadow Warrior (not mirrors): bad damage

Witch Hunter/Witch Elf: suicidal DPS classes... kill some before you die

Marauder/White Lion: nice DPS... too much CCs limit their effectiveness.. good debuffs and utility

Ironbreaker: best survivability, best damage among tanks, best CC in game

Black Orc: good tank class

Chosen/Swordmaster: not better than BO or IB

ranged Healers: horrible DPS even if you spec for it...takes 40+ seconds to kill a mob... bad CC..good healers

melee healers: best 1v1 classes

Bright Wizard: pure ownage... best DPS in RvR.. tons of CCs.. with a healer around, destroys everything... constant crits... Mythic's favorite

Sorcerer: best DPS in Destruction... nice AoE... remains in the shadow of Bright Wizards due to long casting time spells (= less mobility)

-----

So... if Mythic does not nerf some of these classes and chose to buff the underpowered classes, RvR will turn into pure pew pew with no control. Yet they claim that they will not nerf many of the skills. How is that possible? I can't understand the logic here.

 

 

really doesnt sound that imbalanced....at least not from a realm vs realm perspective. Bright wizard and Shadow Warrior might be better than their destruction counterparts, but Destro strikes back with more appealing tanks.

It's actually a hell lot more balanced than people believe it is.

Those who actually have been in great battles knows this. They might be rare, and the game here is not like many others that are focused on PvP where each character can turn the battle by himself. In this game you need to KNOW YOUR ROLE alot more.

Though now many classes really NEEDS some buff-ups in some areas. Never nerf a class, just make the others AS GOOD in my experience.

Engineer is not only too weak but is a really odd class to play and never gives you "that feel" that you are playing an engineer and that you are proud of what you'r doing.

But from all other games I've seen this is probably the best balanced game from launch. We will see what happends with 1.1 patch.

I think some people here can argue the pros and cons of a McDonald's Double Cheeseburger compared to a Wendy's Double Stack with Cheese.  The classes are balanced.  There are no Bone Dancers.  There are no Animists.  There are no Orc Paladins and no Nightelf Mohawks.

a choosen is SOOO much better than a swordmaster.

buff to HP and added resist to gear i guess will be the way they handle the damage spikes and the weaker classes get a buff to damage

that said it will make pve even more boring since the only challenge now is killing mobs 4-5 levels over you now (i don't do dungeon crawls so don't know how they will be affected)

Originally posted by snowchrome2

a choosen is SOOO much better than a swordmaster.

I can sooo take any chosen with my SM and make rinced meat with him... ok, that doesnt make the SM better than the Chosen, but still the chosen isnt better than the SM

OP obviously plays destro and has been touched in bad places by a bright wizard.

There are some imbalances in the game, but nothing too bad, and certainly not the way OP has laid it out.

I hear a lot of people saying Witch Elves are overpowered...but thats just not true.  What is true is that WHs need to be brought up to their potential in pvp.

I have seen sorceresses do just as well in pvp as BWs, it just plays differently.  The survivability of the BW is so low that it balances the dps output.  I dont think there has ever been a better example of a caster class being a "Glass Canon".  And saying they are OP with a healer is just silly...Lots of classes are OP with a healer, dont fault teamwork.  Ever see a tank + DoK or WP? 

Magus, Eng, SH, and SW all need some love...no arguement there.

WE/WH are suicidal if you want to play them like that.  Again teamwork is a beautiful thing.  Get in a good guild and get on vent, it works wonders.

Marauders and WL are more than fine.  At lvl 40 their ranged pull is insanely effective.  If you havent experienced this yet....just wait.

IB are fine, and destro will get its mirror soon.

Black Orcs are just as good as IBs, but just do things differently to be good.

Chosen/SM are also fine

Ranged Healers are fine for what they are suppose to be....definitely like how WAR has designed them versus other ranged healers

DoK/WP  Saying they are the best 1v1 class is silly.  If you are basing this of /duel then i dont know what to say to you.  in 1v1..if a WE gets the drop on any class, its usually gg.  If a BW/Sor drops in on someone in the open world at 100 yrds....its gg...but if you get in melee range of them on a marauder, witch elf, white lion etc...well thats another story.  Both classes are def powerful and are right in line.

BW is right where they should be like i said above, same with Sorc that just plays differently. 

I despise people who call for nerfs.  All you are saying is wah wah wah i got beat nerf them.  Buff the underpowered classes to their level...dont nerf.  People like that need to uninstall.

Now certain abilities you can make an arguement for being OP, but im not in the mood to type up that novel right now.

Originally posted by imbant

OP obviously plays destro and has been touched in bad places by a bright wizard.

There are some imbalances in the game, but nothing too bad, and certainly not the way OP has laid it out.

I hear a lot of people saying Witch Elves are overpowered...but thats just not true.  What is true is that WHs need to be brought up to their potential in pvp.

I have seen sorceresses do just as well in pvp as BWs, it just plays differently.  The survivability of the BW is so low that it balances the dps output.  I dont think there has ever been a better example of a caster class being a "Glass Canon".  And saying they are OP with a healer is just silly...Lots of classes are OP with a healer, dont fault teamwork.  Ever see a tank + DoK or WP? 

Magus, Eng, SH, and SW all need some love...no arguement there.

WE/WH are suicidal if you want to play them like that.  Again teamwork is a beautiful thing.  Get in a good guild and get on vent, it works wonders.

Marauders and WL are more than fine.  At lvl 40 their ranged pull is insanely effective.  If you havent experienced this yet....just wait.

IB are fine, and destro will get its mirror soon.

Black Orcs are just as good as IBs, but just do things differently to be good.

Chosen/SM are also fine

Ranged Healers are fine for what they are suppose to be....definitely like how WAR has designed them versus other ranged healers

DoK/WP  Saying they are the best 1v1 class is silly.  If you are basing this of /duel then i dont know what to say to you.  in 1v1..if a WE gets the drop on any class, its usually gg.  If a BW/Sor drops in on someone in the open world at 100 yrds....its gg...but if you get in melee range of them on a marauder, witch elf, white lion etc...well thats another story.  Both classes are def powerful and are right in line.

BW is right where they should be like i said above, same with Sorc that just plays differently. 

I despise people who call for nerfs.  All you are saying is wah wah wah i got beat nerf them.  Buff the underpowered classes to their level...dont nerf.  People like that need to uninstall.

Now certain abilities you can make an arguement for being OP, but im not in the mood to type up that novel right now.

1. There are imbalances in this game and this should be looked at. When you see 4-6 Bright Wizards in a scenario, with 3-5 Sorcerers and sometimes 1-2 representatives of other classes, you know that there are BIG, and I mean BIG imbalances in the game. And when you see the damage charts of Squig Herders making 40-50k damage while Bright Wizards are making 200k+ damage, then you do not need further proof.

2. Lots of classes are not OP with a healer. I meant the RvR.

For example Witch Elf and a healer. There is no way a healer will make the WE live when he jumps to a BW in the middle of Order. Same goes for most melee classes. Bright Wizard+Healer have the advantage of staying behind the group and with the help of imba damage output of BW, they become deadly.

BW and Sorc mechanics should force them to think about the damage they are producing. Too much combustion/backlash should be deadly for them, but if you have a HOT on you, you do not feel about that. Nothing can stop you from using your overpowered mechanics to crit most of the time. Compare that mechanic with the other class mechanics, still need proof?

3. BOs are NOT as good as IBs. They don't have that much damage, they don't have even half the CCs of IBs. Fail.

4. Witch Elves are much better compared to Witch Hunters. Marauders are better compared to White Lion.

What the devs should do was to first balance classes according to RvR. Take 1 representative of each class and make a 10 vs 10 tons of times. I think they have done this part quite good.

If you take 1 of each class, and put it on a 10 vs. 10 battle, Order vs. Destruction seems balanced.

But the reality is not the case.

30-40% of the Order or Destruction is Sorcs or Bright Wizards.

Most of the Order tanks are IBs.

The total percentage of Magus or Squig Herder in Destruction side is less than 10%.

Why do you think it is this terribly distributed? Because few people want to play gimped classes. Most people will think "Why play a Magus if Bright Wizard has 3x the damage, 2x the CC and 2x the debuffs?"

After balancing realms, Mythic should have balanced mirrors 1v1, then fine tune all of the classes 1v1.

They have skipped the second and third part, hence we have an unfinished, imbalanced game.

I have seen tons of people quit already because of either the lack of RvR or the class imbalances (because they have leveled gimped toons).

Only buffing the weak classes is not an option either, because the TTK (time to kill) will further decrease, from 10 seconds to 3-4 seconds, which is I think Mythic does not want (they were paying lots of attention to TTK in beta, I don't know if they changed their minds about this though).

They need to close the damage gap in RvR for lots of classes, and these require some nerfs to mechanics/certain skills for some classes, some buff to other classes, and looking at the working of some game mechanics/stats (i.e.resistances).

Originally posted by Xtort

Originally posted by imbant

3. BOs are NOT as good as IBs. They don't have that much damage, they don't have even half the CCs of IBs. Fail.

I guess since so many ppl play IB's and so few play BO's we should nerf IB's and/or make BO's better

Originally posted by MMORPDEATH

Originally posted by Xtort

Originally posted by imbant

3. BOs are NOT as good as IBs. They don't have that much damage, they don't have even half the CCs of IBs. Fail.

 

I guess since so many ppl play IB's and so few play BO's we should nerf IB's and/or make BO's better

No, I think Black Orcs are fine as it is. IB and BO are not mirror classes to begin with. However IB has much more CC and damage compared to any other tank out there. A full damage specced/geared Ironbreaker can kill any healer under 10-12 seconds. If the Black Guards become as strong as IBs, maybe Order players will understand what I mean.

Originally posted by imbant

OP obviously plays destro and has been touched in bad places by a bright wizard.

There are some imbalances in the game, but nothing too bad, and certainly not the way OP has laid it out.

I hear a lot of people saying Witch Elves are overpowered...but thats just not true.  What is true is that WHs need to be brought up to their potential in pvp.

I have seen sorceresses do just as well in pvp as BWs, it just plays differently.  The survivability of the BW is so low that it balances the dps output.  I dont think there has ever been a better example of a caster class being a "Glass Canon".  And saying they are OP with a healer is just silly...Lots of classes are OP with a healer, dont fault teamwork.  Ever see a tank + DoK or WP? 

Magus, Eng, SH, and SW all need some love...no arguement there.

WE/WH are suicidal if you want to play them like that.  Again teamwork is a beautiful thing.  Get in a good guild and get on vent, it works wonders.

Marauders and WL are more than fine.  At lvl 40 their ranged pull is insanely effective.  If you havent experienced this yet....just wait.

IB are fine, and destro will get its mirror soon.

Black Orcs are just as good as IBs, but just do things differently to be good.

Chosen/SM are also fine

Ranged Healers are fine for what they are suppose to be....definitely like how WAR has designed them versus other ranged healers

DoK/WP  Saying they are the best 1v1 class is silly.  If you are basing this of /duel then i dont know what to say to you.  in 1v1..if a WE gets the drop on any class, its usually gg.  If a BW/Sor drops in on someone in the open world at 100 yrds....its gg...but if you get in melee range of them on a marauder, witch elf, white lion etc...well thats another story.  Both classes are def powerful and are right in line.

BW is right where they should be like i said above, same with Sorc that just plays differently. 

I despise people who call for nerfs.  All you are saying is wah wah wah i got beat nerf them.  Buff the underpowered classes to their level...dont nerf.  People like that need to uninstall.

Now certain abilities you can make an arguement for being OP, but im not in the mood to type up that novel right now.

This is spot on what I have experienced.

 No matter how they balance the classes, the PVP in WAR just boils down to being a bit to slow paced, which starts to make the PVP feel very dull and old fast.

 It boggles the mind that there are people who  feel they need Team Speak for WAR. The way things play out the same way with limited tactical options you don't need fast communication like one would need in a clan vs clan game of say Battlefield 2. There is no think fast on your feet element to stay alive and beat your enemy with the slow pace of PVP in WAR. WAR just offers one flavour, you can only have so many helpings of one flavour before you get sick of it.

Originally posted by Xtort

Originally posted by MMORPDEATH

Originally posted by Xtort

Originally posted by imbant

3. BOs are NOT as good as IBs. They don't have that much damage, they don't have even half the CCs of IBs. Fail.

 

I guess since so many ppl play IB's and so few play BO's we should nerf IB's and/or make BO's better

 

No, I think Black Orcs are fine as it is. IB and BO are not mirror classes to begin with. However IB has much more CC and damage compared to any other tank out there. A full damage specced/geared Ironbreaker can kill any healer under 10-12 seconds. If the Black Guards become as strong as IBs, maybe Order players will understand what I mean.

So, 'umie, youz sain' dat i'z nut gud 'nuf jus' 'cause i'z cun' smoosh da stuntiez un unda' 10-12 secundz? Well, me choppa 'az sumtin' ta say 'bout dat. Whenevez der iz only one stuntie 'round, i'z gots no problems. But when der iz mor' den one, i'z need ta watch out, 'cause of der grudges.

If WAR RVR is slow, you're doing it wrong.

The mirror classes are designed to mimic their counterparts, not be EXACTLY the same.

Melee healers are not the best 1v1 classes after T1.

The game generally becomes more balanced in higher tier.

It's not all about god damn damage and CC, the classes are designed to do certain things, as are the mastery lines in each class.

The game is designed so not everyone will like every class, they have even stated that openly.

Chosen and Swordmaster are not mirror classes, they play very differently.

I have a Sorceress as my main character, and have played a bright wizard, and see no reason to buff or nerf either of them.

IB and BO are also not mirror classes, then are for different situations.

There is no one class that is best in any situation, the class mechanics are designed to make sure of that, don't try to compare classes that are not mirrored, they are designed for different purposes.

Originally posted by Xtort

Summary of WAR classes

Magus/Engineer: horrible DOT damage. Not too many good debuffs. No good utility/CC (except the Rift/Electromagnet which is on a useless tree).

Squig Herder/Shadow Warrior (not mirrors): bad damage

Witch Hunter/Witch Elf: suicidal DPS classes... kill some before you die

Marauder/White Lion: nice DPS... too much CCs limit their effectiveness.. good debuffs and utility

Ironbreaker: best survivability, best damage among tanks, best CC in game

Black Orc: good tank class

Chosen/Swordmaster: not better than BO or IB

ranged Healers: horrible DPS even if you spec for it...takes 40+ seconds to kill a mob... bad CC..good healers

melee healers: best 1v1 classes

Bright Wizard: pure ownage... best DPS in RvR.. tons of CCs.. with a healer around, destroys everything... constant crits... Mythic's favorite

Sorcerer: best DPS in Destruction... nice AoE... remains in the shadow of Bright Wizards due to long casting time spells (= less mobility)

-----

So... if Mythic does not nerf some of these classes and chose to buff the underpowered classes, RvR will turn into pure pew pew with no control. Yet they claim that they will not nerf many of the skills. How is that possible? I can't understand the logic here.

 

 

I'm not going to delve too far into this but just the other day I was doing the last stage of a PQ with two engineers and the group managed to wipe, all but the engineers. (a RvR PQ in dwarf T2, we got hit by a sneaky goblin bastard at a crucial moment)

Anyway i was lying there dead.. Since I died last as the tank I thought I'd wait for our WP to res me instead of running and I was watching what's going on. And I saw those 2 engineers kite and kill that Hero mob and his champ ally. I couldn't believe what I saw. In fact I believe those two guys could easily complete PQs at their level by themselves.

Thats how underpowered engineers are. L2P buddy.

{ Mod Edit }

Originally posted by Xtort

Originally posted by imbant

OP obviously plays destro and has been touched in bad places by a bright wizard.

There are some imbalances in the game, but nothing too bad, and certainly not the way OP has laid it out.

I hear a lot of people saying Witch Elves are overpowered...but thats just not true.  What is true is that WHs need to be brought up to their potential in pvp.

I have seen sorceresses do just as well in pvp as BWs, it just plays differently.  The survivability of the BW is so low that it balances the dps output.  I dont think there has ever been a better example of a caster class being a "Glass Canon".  And saying they are OP with a healer is just silly...Lots of classes are OP with a healer, dont fault teamwork.  Ever see a tank + DoK or WP? 

Magus, Eng, SH, and SW all need some love...no arguement there.

WE/WH are suicidal if you want to play them like that.  Again teamwork is a beautiful thing.  Get in a good guild and get on vent, it works wonders.

Marauders and WL are more than fine.  At lvl 40 their ranged pull is insanely effective.  If you havent experienced this yet....just wait.

IB are fine, and destro will get its mirror soon.

Black Orcs are just as good as IBs, but just do things differently to be good.

Chosen/SM are also fine

Ranged Healers are fine for what they are suppose to be....definitely like how WAR has designed them versus other ranged healers

DoK/WP  Saying they are the best 1v1 class is silly.  If you are basing this of /duel then i dont know what to say to you.  in 1v1..if a WE gets the drop on any class, its usually gg.  If a BW/Sor drops in on someone in the open world at 100 yrds....its gg...but if you get in melee range of them on a marauder, witch elf, white lion etc...well thats another story.  Both classes are def powerful and are right in line.

BW is right where they should be like i said above, same with Sorc that just plays differently. 

I despise people who call for nerfs.  All you are saying is wah wah wah i got beat nerf them.  Buff the underpowered classes to their level...dont nerf.  People like that need to uninstall.

Now certain abilities you can make an arguement for being OP, but im not in the mood to type up that novel right now.

 

1. There are imbalances in this game and this should be looked at. When you see 4-6 Bright Wizards in a scenario, with 3-5 Sorcerers and sometimes 1-2 representatives of other classes, you know that there are BIG, and I mean BIG imbalances in the game. And when you see the damage charts of Squig Herders making 40-50k damage while Bright Wizards are making 200k+ damage, then you do not need further proof.

2. Lots of classes are not OP with a healer. I meant the RvR.

For example Witch Elf and a healer. There is no way a healer will make the WE live when he jumps to a BW in the middle of Order. Same goes for most melee classes. Bright Wizard+Healer have the advantage of staying behind the group and with the help of imba damage output of BW, they become deadly.

BW and Sorc mechanics should force them to think about the damage they are producing. Too much combustion/backlash should be deadly for them, but if you have a HOT on you, you do not feel about that. Nothing can stop you from using your overpowered mechanics to crit most of the time. Compare that mechanic with the other class mechanics, still need proof?

3. BOs are NOT as good as IBs. They don't have that much damage, they don't have even half the CCs of IBs. Fail.

4. Witch Elves are much better compared to Witch Hunters. Marauders are better compared to White Lion.

What the devs should do was to first balance classes according to RvR. Take 1 representative of each class and make a 10 vs 10 tons of times. I think they have done this part quite good.

If you take 1 of each class, and put it on a 10 vs. 10 battle, Order vs. Destruction seems balanced.

But the reality is not the case.

30-40% of the Order or Destruction is Sorcs or Bright Wizards.

Most of the Order tanks are IBs.

The total percentage of Magus or Squig Herder in Destruction side is less than 10%.

Why do you think it is this terribly distributed? Because few people want to play gimped classes. Most people will think "Why play a Magus if Bright Wizard has 3x the damage, 2x the CC and 2x the debuffs?"

After balancing realms, Mythic should have balanced mirrors 1v1, then fine tune all of the classes 1v1.

They have skipped the second and third part, hence we have an unfinished, imbalanced game.

I have seen tons of people quit already because of either the lack of RvR or the class imbalances (because they have leveled gimped toons).

Only buffing the weak classes is not an option either, because the TTK (time to kill) will further decrease, from 10 seconds to 3-4 seconds, which is I think Mythic does not want (they were paying lots of attention to TTK in beta, I don't know if they changed their minds about this though).

They need to close the damage gap in RvR for lots of classes, and these require some nerfs to mechanics/certain skills for some classes, some buff to other classes, and looking at the working of some game mechanics/stats (i.e.resistances).

1. Pure damage dealers are always the most played class in any game so this to be expected. Why would you compare damage output between a Pure DPS AoE class and Single Target Pet DPS class? Want to compare a Squig Herder then do it against the Shadow Warrior.

2. A healer will not keep any class that is focused fired alive. If players are smart they will kill the healer first and worry about the tag alone later.

3. Black Orcs are Mirrors of the Sword Master. Black Guard are Mirrors of the Iron Breaker. Compaing to different mechaniced tanks doesn't prove anything.

4. Mirrored classes have similar mechanics but have different strengths. No two classes will be the same even if they share mechanics. By saying one class is stronger than the other you have to look at everything each has to offer.

You can argue and believe what you want, but you don't know for sure unless you have access to all the numbers. And Its safe to say at this point unless you work for Mythic you don't.

why we dont give this guy the Godmode character class?

Originally posted by markoraos

I think you're full of BS...

I'm not going to delve too far into this but just the other day I was doing the last stage of a PQ with two engineers and the group managed to wipe, all but the engineers. (a RvR PQ in dwarf T2, we got hit by a sneaky goblin bastard at a crucial moment)

Anyway i was lying there dead.. Since I died last as the tank I thought I'd wait for our WP to res me instead of running and I was watching what's going on. And I saw those 2 engineers kite and kill that Hero mob and his champ ally. I couldn't believe what I saw. In fact I believe those two guys could easily complete PQs at their level by themselves.

Thats how underpowered engineers are. L2P buddy.

Hehehe... no really, Engineers/Magus and SW's/SH's really ARE too weak in one way or another.

You said you were in Tier 2, this is the common "newbie" mistake for people who judge engineers, since at T1/2 is where they shine (if you can actually call say they ever really do).

T3/4 they are mediocre and if you have an engineer in a scenario you are basicly worthless and a waste of space for a Bright Wizard unless you are using Electromagnet.

It might not be too much fixes needed for engineer but at this time it's almost 100% official  that they are underdogs and needs some up's.

I gotta agree with imbant, it seems that OP is a disgruntled destro. 

OP you are right, the classes are imbalanced, but the factions as a whole are balanced.  Destro has its strengths and weakness and order has its strengths and weaknesses.

 Iron breakers are the best tanks in the game, but chosen, at level 40 holding a 2hander and specced dps, can do much better damage then a IB specced the same way.  Mauraders can easily out dps white lions (although i believe white lions are more single target dps whereas mauraders excell at aoe).  Witch elves are better then witch hunters for pretty much levels 1-39.  Shaman are much harder to kill then archmages.

But you are right, sorceress are in the shadow of brightwizards.  Expect a nerf soon.