EVE Online

Originally posted by PatchDay

Originally posted by Lordmonkus

Did anyone stop to think that the real reason for the end of ghost training is because there are now too many people training toons for next to nothing and then turning around and selling those toons for isk ?

 

Then get rid of trading characters for ISK. Does that not 'cheat' other people? I dont understand why people can go pay real money for ISK, then trade that ISK for a veteran character with ZERO work.

Yet- if I ghost train, I'm somehow exploting the game?

This does not compute

 

Could it be- some suit at CCP thought they were not making money from ghost training so squashed that. But since selling GTCs gives them a benefit in their wallets they keep that around. This is why they hiked the prices of GTC (60 GTCs now)

They are making money from the sell of GTCs now. so, they make money from character trading and ISK sales. But they were not able to trace on their spreadsheets a direct benefit for ghost training.

 

Yes, I've made this observation and I think it's the most likely.

You may have noticed, too, that in Torfiwhatshisname's post he said they detected an increase in unsubbed training and thought it mysterious and ominous, but apparently they didn't bother to research the chars to see whether they were regular players or had a history of selling chars.  If they had done that they easily could have gone the additional step to confirm that the upswing was not regular players maybe feeling the economic pinch and unsubbing but rather char farmers.  Just more laziness and incompetence on the part of CCP, just like their failure for the longest time to develop data mining queries to easily nab the entire ISK farming structures, from miners to haulers to freighters to middlemen to final ISK delivery accounts.  They're all connected in the database.

Originally posted by batolemaeus

 

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Originally posted by Lordmonkus
Did anyone stop to think that the real reason for the end of ghost training is because there are now too many people training toons for next to nothing and then turning around and selling those toons for isk ?

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I posted exactly that, but nobody listened to me :P

I said that too, but after witnessing a big spike in GTC prices after this went live, I think it's also because a lot of big-alliance types were training rarely-used alts with high SP abilities (cap pilots mostly) and only activating them with GTCs as they were needed.

Either way it's not likely to make any real difference in sub numbers since the people affected didn't count as subscribers most of the time.

Originally posted by PatchDay

Originally posted by Lordmonkus

Did anyone stop to think that the real reason for the end of ghost training is because there are now too many people training toons for next to nothing and then turning around and selling those toons for isk ?

 

Then get rid of trading characters for ISK. Does that not 'cheat' other people? I dont understand why people can go pay real money for ISK, then trade that ISK for a veteran character with ZERO work.

Yet- if I ghost train, I'm somehow exploting the game?

This does not compute

 

Could it be- some suit at CCP thought they were not making money from ghost training so squashed that. But since selling GTCs gives them a benefit in their wallets they keep that around. This is why they hiked the prices of GTC (60 GTCs now)

They are making money from the sell of GTCs now. so, they make money from character trading and ISK sales. But they were not able to trace on their spreadsheets a direct benefit for ghost training.

 

 

How about this idea for an exploit and a damn good reason for the removal of ghost training ?

Gold farmer sets up 100 accounts and starts ghost training them all for 2 years and pays for maybe 6 months instead of the 24 months he would normally have to. Gold farmer makes a ton of real world money. Do you not see where this could be a big problem ?

Originally posted by Lordmonkus

Originally posted by PatchDay

Originally posted by Lordmonkus

Did anyone stop to think that the real reason for the end of ghost training is because there are now too many people training toons for next to nothing and then turning around and selling those toons for isk ?

 

Then get rid of trading characters for ISK. Does that not 'cheat' other people? I dont understand why people can go pay real money for ISK, then trade that ISK for a veteran character with ZERO work.

Yet- if I ghost train, I'm somehow exploting the game?

This does not compute

 

Could it be- some suit at CCP thought they were not making money from ghost training so squashed that. But since selling GTCs gives them a benefit in their wallets they keep that around. This is why they hiked the prices of GTC (60 GTCs now)

They are making money from the sell of GTCs now. so, they make money from character trading and ISK sales. But they were not able to trace on their spreadsheets a direct benefit for ghost training.

 

 

How about this idea for an exploit and a damn good reason for the removal of ghost training ?

Gold farmer sets up 100 accounts and starts ghost training them all for 2 years and pays for maybe 6 months instead of the 24 months he would normally have to. Gold farmer makes a ton of real world money. Do you not see where this could be a big problem ?

Yes I do see a problem and that problem is the source: Time based training.

What happens now that ghost training is gone? People will still farm alts and sell those for real money. The price might be a bit higher, but they will still do it

Removing ghost training will not stop character farming.

Also, now training up alts for legit customer base will be even more impractical. They are harming legit users with this change.

To stop illegal character sales, you fight that issue on that front. You don't harm legit users in the process

Originally posted by TheBrewer

Agreed Ghost training needed to go. Anyone who is mad that it's gone obviously doesnt wanan work for anything just get freebies

How exactly do you have to "work" for your skils? Do you sell your services as a sex worker to the devs and they give u a 10x boost to the rate you learn your skills?

The ONLY difference between you training your 1 month skill while playing and I training 1 month skill NOT playing is: CCP gets money in your case and CCP gets no money in my case.

Conclusion: they canceled ghost training becuase they want the money.

Whats wrong with that? nothing, unless you specifically mentioned that that part of the game was a feature for 5 freaking years!

Imagine you ordering a good looking young redhead lady prositute called Samantha . You paid in advance becuase you've done this before - the service was always delivered in time and as advertised. You wait impatiently for her to arrive. You hear a door bell, you put up your best smile, you fix your shirt and check your breath. You go for the door, you open it. You see a bearded guy who speaks to you: "Hey baby, Im Samantha. Sorry. no refunds honey."

With ghost training taken out of picture, Eve just turned from hot redhead into a bearded dude. Enjoy your dude, dude.

The funny thing is, that there are a lot of posts that bring ingame and out of game reasons,
why "unsubbed training" made not only sense,
but was required for the game and even advertised as game feature by CCP,
yet the majority of post arguing for its removal are
aside from some rather well thought through ones
just variations of to themes:

a) No freebies for you.
b) Adapt Customer or die, the corp is right.

I guess their education was equipped with...

Originally posted by beingearnest

The funny thing is, that there are a lot of posts that bring ingame and out of game reasons,
why "unsubbed training" made not only sense,
but was required for the game and even advertised as game feature by CCP,
yet the majority of post arguing for its removal are
aside from some rather well thought through ones
just variations of to themes:

a) No freebies for you.
b) Adapt Customer or die, the corp is right.

I guess their education was equipped with...

Maybe the fanbois didn't train their Learning skills high enough.

CCP will have to adapt to fewer paid subscriptions, or die.  That works for me.

I've already cut off $60/mo ($720 annualized).  When I get done watching accounts expire over the next three weeks I will have cut off about $1,000/year from my contribution to CCP's well being.  If they want to lose the remaining $600 or so per year, all they have to do is continue lying, spinning, stonewalling and refusing to reinstate unsubbed training.  Either way it all works for me.

Originally posted by logicbox9

Ghost training is completely retarded... and it's about time CCP finally stopped it. Really, you should only be able to train skills WHILE SUBSCRIBED. I'm amazed that CCP didn't stop it sooner.

you should only be able to train skills while logged in and actually playing.  i'm amazed that ccp hasn't stopped that yet and have sent in several petitions today requesting they do.  i will also be amazed if you, and everyone else in support of the inactive training nerf, do NOT wholeheartedly support my petition with petitions of your own and then posting your support here.

to do otherwise would be hypocritical.