FFXI was my first MMO and I never enjoyed a game like it. I quited the game 2 times, both because i was out of time to dedicate to the game. It is true that i have more RL now i am not playing but i feel something is missing, I am playing now LOTRO, pleased with the graphics and the fidelity to Tolkien books, but i am not hooked. I tried WoW but it's not for me... And i am here again, thinking of returning to Vanadiel one more time, with the install dvd in the drive... I know i want to do it, but something strikes my thoughts: how much time vanadiel will exist more with the next SE mmo in sight and after so many years of work? I Please tell me some clues... Thank you all.

Longer than you'd think. Have fun and don't worry. If you come to Kujata, give me a holler.

Originally posted by Ninel

FFXI was my first MMO and I never enjoyed a game like it. I quited the game 2 times, both because i was out of time to dedicate to the game. It is true that i have more RL now i am not playing but i feel something is missing, I am playing now LOTRO, pleased with the graphics and the fidelity to Tolkien books, but i am not hooked. I tried WoW but it's not for me... And i am here again, thinking of returning to Vanadiel one more time, with the install dvd in the drive... I know i want to do it, but something strikes my thoughts: how much time vanadiel will exist more with the next SE mmo in sight and after so many years of work? I Please tell me some clues... Thank you all.

Honestly, there is at least 2 years left i'd say.  They just released an expansion and not everyone will jump to the new MMO.  I know that i probably will not (depending on when it comes out mind you) because FFXI offers more than just a game for me.  It has content, challenge, and most importantly, an amazing community.

Im on the border of resubbing.....but so much time investment.

I doubt FFXI is going anywhere soon, hell UO is still up and going.

~HappyGaming

Yes, FFXI is safe for a while. When the added the level sync -- in my opinion - they kinda signaled that we are in the waning years, but we should still have a very long time and might even see a new expanion or two. My guess is the game would have a 8-10 year life span about that time the servers would probably be condensed and possibly even the membership would drop. The players will abandon Vana'deil long before SE would.

Don't use the next SE MMO as your basis for how long FFXI will be around. Truth be told I had heard of the next SE MMO before I started playing FFXI back in 2003. It is kinda how Sony is already thinking the PlayStation 4. SE has already made another MMO (at least I think it is made I can't read Japanese) called Fantasy Earth -- www.fantasy-earth.com/. It has always looked good to me ... it seems like it might be a free to play from what the site looks now ... I just wish i could read it.

Originally posted by ic0n67

Yes, FFXI is safe for a while. When the added the level sync -- in my opinion - they kinda signaled that we are in the waning years, but we should still have a very long time and might even see a new expanion or two. My guess is the game would have a 8-10 year life span about that time the servers would probably be condensed and possibly even the membership would drop. The players will abandon Vana'deil long before SE would.

Don't use the next SE MMO as your basis for how long FFXI will be around. Truth be told I had heard of the next SE MMO before I started playing FFXI back in 2003. It is kinda how Sony is already thinking the PlayStation 4. SE has already made another MMO (at least I think it is made I can't read Japanese) called Fantasy Earth -- www.fantasy-earth.com/. It has always looked good to me ... it seems like it might be a free to play from what the site looks now ... I just wish i could read it.

it got cancel at bought up buy gamepod its free to play in asia

Originally posted by ic0n67

Yes, FFXI is safe for a while. When the added the level sync -- in my opinion - they kinda signaled that we are in the waning years, but we should still have a very long time and might even see a new expanion or two.

I don't think level sync signals anything more than they finally decided and/or found a way to alleviate one of FFXI's most often cited issues - finding parties and leveling with friends who are higher level than you. I have mixed feelings about it, myself, as people seem to be content with leveling up at the cost of keeping their skils up to date. But, I think it's done a lot  of good overall.

My guess is the game would have a 8-10 year life span about that time the servers would probably be condensed and possibly even the membership would drop. The players will abandon Vana'deil long before SE would.

Thing is, up to and including the last Vana'diel Census, the game is still holding steady at around 500k subs. This has been the case for year after year now and demonstrates, more than anything, that FFXI has a stable and consistent community.

As of at least some time back (last year or so, I believe) it was placed as the 4th most popular pay-to-play MMO... after 6 years into its life span. That's nothing to sneeze at.

People's attraction to FFXI goes beyond the game itself. People stick with this game for its community as much as anything else; something I think is underestimated when people talk about the game.

Also, FFXI is filling a niche that is decreasingly represented for with the release of each new post-WoW MMO... That is, a more old-school MMO where the focus isn't on "racing to end game", but on enjoying the journey there, however long it takes (a concept many newer MMO players don't seem to grasp).

So, all that considered... SE has said that as long as players continue to play and enjoy the game and basically vote for the game to continue with their sub dollars, SE will continue to support it. So far, it's showing no signs of slowing, despite the occasional claims that "it's dying".

Don't use the next SE MMO as your basis for how long FFXI will be around. Truth be told I had heard of the next SE MMO before I started playing FFXI back in 2003. It is kinda how Sony is already thinking the PlayStation 4. SE has already made another MMO (at least I think it is made I can't read Japanese) called Fantasy Earth -- www.fantasy-earth.com/. It has always looked good to me ... it seems like it might be a free to play from what the site looks now ... I just wish i could read it.

Yeah I was following  Fantasy Earth for a while, but then found it wouldn't be available in English, so sorta gave up on it.

I am following their new one, code-named "Rapture", though. Not much has been revealed about it, other than that the tech demo video shown to showcase the 360 some time back was early development work on it. So we'll see where that goes.

I am back

I know you were talking about rapture ... so has SE ... I was just pointing out that they have made other MMOs that have seemingly not eatten into the community base.

8-10 years is a good guess on how long the game will last. With any good software you should have a good idea of when the time has come to let it go and stop supporting it. With the nature of MMOs you will not see a total cut off like i said the players will leave FFXI before SE will stop supporting it. Eventually just too many of the people who played will move onto bigger and better things or too many people will have achieved all they can or hope to acheive. At that point it will be over.

Level sync is start of the decline. This isn't going to be a dramatic decilne ... we will still get content we will still get new challenges, all I'm saying it the clock is ticking. It is going to be a slow steady ride into the sunset that we will all enjoy. We have seen the apex of the game with the destruciton of Alexandre. Think of it like growing up. You have reached your middle-age. You have planted raised yourself up, planted the seeds for the future, even though new people and challanges might arise, you are still riding the wave to the end.

And honestly the community is great, you really get personality in this game that you do not get in your WoWs ... I have to say it is a very nice thing ... but it could be better ... ... ... i mean ... Larry and the constant bitching is a part of the community unfortunatly.

P.S. ... Welcome back

As far as I can see that FFXI is super heavy weight grinding game and there are much shits to do in the game, and the number of low levels still running around in starting town, so I also believe it may last longer. 

But it all depends on computer technology such as Nvidea/ATI graphics card, Intel/AMD CPU as well as Microsoft Windows etc. Any one of them may have changed the gameplay into another unknown field in which means what population are able to resist the future and hold up with an aging game?

When the choice comes, I guess many people still forced to give up their accounts, afterall, they are virtually essence. If you are a gamer then it will happened frequently and I have long been used to abandon such vitual treasures. Only if you can turn the virtuality into real life which is selling your account then you'd kept more memories. 

But there are not many capable characters being created in today's mmogs. Because most people only knew better armors/weapons = ability. It is not always the same formula in all mmogs. So, I think if you have maxed all your skills and covered up the full range of craftings then you may not wanted to abandon easily. Otherwise, your in-game characters can just copy within a short period of time from anyone else, it's not a big deal.

Originally posted by Larry2298

As far as I can see that FFXI is super heavy weight grinding game and there are much shits to do in the game, and the number of low levels still running around in starting town, so I also believe it may last longer. 

But it all depends on computer technology such as Nvidea/ATI graphics card, Intel/AMD CPU as well as Microsoft Windows etc. Any one of them may have changed the gameplay into another unknown field in which means what population are able to resist the future and hold up with an aging game?

When the choice comes, I guess many people still forced to give up their accounts, afterall, they are virtually essence. If you are a gamer then it will happened frequently and I have long been used to abandon such vitual treasures. Only if you can turn the virtuality into real life which is selling your account then you'd kept more memories. 

But there are not many capable characters being created in today's mmogs. Because most people only knew better armors/weapons = ability. It is not always the same formula in all mmogs. So, I think if you have maxed all your skills and covered up the full range of craftings then you may not wanted to abandon easily. Otherwise, your in-game characters can just copy within a short period of time from anyone else, it's not a big deal.

 

Some very good points there. I agree with the "better armor/weapons = ability" bit; it seems that's what people are most concerned about in newer MMOs. Also can't help but notice that the more the games go in that direction, the more quickly the players are becoming bored with them and looking to move on to "the next new thing".

It's saying a lot when a genre like MMOs where players can, and do, potentially play one game for *years* is producing games lately that are boring players and churning them out within months.

I don't really agree with the "super heavy-weight grind" part. FFXI is what you make it.

I'm playing FFXI since '03 when it came out and the only time it's ever felt like a grind is, frankly, when I've played it like one. When I spent too much time grinding levels... or grinding a craft... or doing any one thing for extended periods of time, that's when it felt like a grind.

When I learned to back off of doing one thing so much and break my time up between different activities, the game felt much different... the feeling of a grind went away. 

There's certainly no shortage of things to do in FFXI, so finding a variety of activities isn't exactly difficult. One only has to pull themselves out of whatever groove (or rut) they're in and look around to find what else interests them. And you can do this starting from a low level.

Where graphics are concerned, FFXI actually holds up (in my opinion of course) pretty well even among newer MMOs. While FFXI may "lack" in bleeding-edge graphics technology, it excels in style, environment design and artwork. It doesn't show so much in the lower levels, of course.

Though, I think those areas were kept more "mundane" looking on purpose. Things start off very "small", very "simple" and very "normal" in FFXI. However, as you progress, the areas become more and more elaborate, the storylines become much deeper and multi-threaded (classic Square Enix, basically) and the game opens up tremendously.

There's also a balance to be kept. By keeping many areas very "normal" and "earthy looking" it helps the contrast all the more when you enter the more other-worldly and bizarre areas. So, I think that balance exists by design as well.

Overall, despite the limitations of its tech, (thank you, PS2), SE have done quite an amazing job with it.

Also, I think cutting edge graphics with DX9 pixel shaders flying all over the place are given too much importance overall. They're great to "grab" people in the first place, and I think companies realize and cash in on that. But if the game itself is lacking, the best graphics in the world are only going to carry it for so long.

Despite so many examples to the contrary, there are still people who think "great graphics = great game" and are all too willing to pull out their credit cards before they know what's really "under the hood", so to speak. And companies continue to profit from that.

I think there are plenty of recent examples of that. People wanting to play a new game based on how great it looks, but then come back some time later and say that the game itself is just not cutting it. Without a solid game underneath, over time it becomes nothing but an interactive graphics demo.

Anyway... my 2 cents.

Originally posted by WSIMike

I don't really agree with the "super heavy-weight grind" part. FFXI is what you make it.

Where graphics are concerned, FFXI actually holds up (in my opinion of course) pretty well even among newer MMOs. While FFXI may "lack" in bleeding-edge graphics technology, it excels in style, environment design and artwork. It doesn't show so much in the lower levels, of course. 

I hardly believe how painful it was back to years ago when I played FFXI with MX440 something like that. And, now one of my PC is 280GTX just capable to handle all, but another PC with Nvidea 7600GS still sucks. The grass on the ground and the catsles and walls all like 640 x480. The grass is the poorest quality in any mmo I have played, it is seemingly created by map generator. 

If you never play an astonishing game with good graphics then you may not  know the graphics is poor in FFXI. Just like if you haven't seen the Blue Ray movie you don't know what is Blue Ray.

FFXI is absolute a super heavy weight grinding game in my definition and it depends on your playing style. I think the game is a typical F2P design with everything based on TIME consuming. There are tremendously useless contents on thw way to reach certain goal as if there is no end goal. That is just makes you believe that the game provides sufficient contents.

I think if a player do not have time to spend 8 hours a day then he'd better stay away from FFXI, because FFXI is a long time and super heavy weight grinding mmo. If you are just leveling then you are definitely lose to play the core of shit. It could be more fun to play other mmo based on levels such as LOTRO.

As some players been said, FFXI is not for everyone. It is different from WOW, WOW is not mmo, it's drugs makes you exciting and get high. FFXI is Days in Our Lives, a soap opera.

You have a lot of experience and wisdom about a game you've only played a month. Knowledge about how endgame is and everything in between. So, how are you able to say those things with only a month old character?

Originally posted by Larry2298

FFXI is Days in Our Lives, a soap opera.

I'm hoping that someone stuffs you in a well and eventually kills you in a great story arc then.

[Welcome back] hope you are having [fun] ^^

Originally posted by Larry2298

I hardly believe how painful it was back to years ago when I played FFXI with MX440 something like that. And, now one of my PC is 280GTX just capable to handle all, but another PC with Nvidea 7600GS still sucks. The grass on the ground and the catsles and walls all like 640 x480. The grass is the poorest quality in any mmo I have played, it is seemingly created by map generator.

Thank the PS2's limited memory for that.

They have to keep the textures lower res to make sure that the world textures, as well as everything else can fit in memory on the PS2. I wish they'd come out with an optional higher resolution texture pack for those on a 360, or on PC and don't have those memory restrictions. I'd be all over it.

Will they? Who knows... but I'm not holding my breath.

That said, again, in the earlier areas, the textures can look very bland and "blurry" at times. But as you get farther along, it becomes apparent that they got a better grip on the technology and learned to get around its limitations, as the texture art - both in the world and on characters' gear, etc. becomes much more detailed. 

If you never play an astonishing game with good graphics then you may not  know the graphics is poor in FFXI. Just like if you haven't seen the Blue Ray movie you don't know what is Blue Ray.

I've played everything from Anarchy Online, to Asheron's Call 2, to Everquest 2, to WoW, to LoTRO, to AoC, to WAR, to Ragnarok Online, to Lineage 2, to Saga of Ryzom, to Horizons, to Shadowbane... and many, many others. I've played everything from the "prettiest" MMOs to the ugliest. That doesn't alter my opinion of FFXI's graphics in the least.

Knowing what SE has to work with when creating environments and such for FFXI, I think they're doing a fantastic job of it. The game has some of the most well designed environments I've seen in any MMO.

FFXI is absolute a super heavy weight grinding game in my definition and it depends on your playing style.

Bingo. As long as you acknowledge that it's your play style that makes it feel that way, and not the game itself :).

That is just makes you believe that the game provides sufficient contents.

Do not agree with you here. There's no need to believe that there's "sufficient contents", because FFXI is, by any measure, a truly enormous game, with more content - of different types - than many players will ever get through.

When people can be playing the game for 5+ years, have several jobs to 75, have completed almost all story arcs (from the original on up to Aht Urghan), have done Dynamis, Assault, Sky, Sea and other things.. and *still* have numerous other areas of content they haven't even touched... that is not merely the "impression of sufficient contents". That *is* more than sufficient content.

I will agree with you on one thing, though.. there are aspects of the game that seem to be artificially inflated time-wise.. such as having to wait 'til after Japanese midnight to continue or complete certain quests... things like that. However, none of that disqualifies what I said above about the sheer amount of content in the game. They simply have a peculiar way of presenting some of it.

I think if a player do not have time to spend 8 hours a day then he'd better stay away from FFXI, because FFXI is a long time and super heavy weight grinding mmo.

Again, this goes back to one's personal playstyle and expectations of what they want to accomplish in how small a time frame.

A personal real life friend of mine is married with a child and a full time 40-50 hour per week job and sets his priorities. He can play around  3-4 hours a few nights a week (sometimes a little longer on weekends), and that has been the case for the past 3-4 years now.

Despite that limited time, he has completed all but the latest expansion. He has 3 - almost 4 - jobs to 75. He has been in a Sky, Sea and Dynamis linkshell, does Assault and a slew of other things I can't recall off the top of my head. And he's not the only one I know who's done this on that limited playtime.

Now, for some, that might not be "enough" in that much time. But to him, he accepts that because of his limited play time it will take him longer to achieve goals than it will others. But that's okay with him, because he enjoys playing the game itself enough that he doesn't care how long it takes.

FFXI is Days in Our Lives, a soap opera.

Heheh, except that everyone isn't getting pregnant in FFXI.

Just to hit on the texture and graphic comments. If you are on the PC you can make the game look 100x better with mods. Wish I still had my before and after shots of the starting zone....im sure someone can jump in and supply them. Oh, and you know that fog you get in the distance that makes stuff blurry, you can turn that off too.

The Holy Grail for FFXI players: http://windower.net/

~HappyGaming

Originally posted by korvix

Just to hit on the texture and graphic comments. If you are on the PC you can make the game look 100x better with mods. Wish I still had my before and after shots of the starting zone....im sure someone can jump in and supply them. Oh, and you know that fog you get in the distance that makes stuff blurry, you can turn that off too.

The Holy Grail for FFXI players: http://windower.net/

~HappyGaming

Indeed...

I used to use Windower and loved the add-on that lets you render farther. Still tempted to use it just for that, but since they have their own windower built in now, I don't even want to take that chance by running a 3rd party app.

I do have the resolution "hacked" to render at 2048x2048 however and it does make a huge difference.

Here's my ever-growing gallery of pics from in-game... (best viewed with the browser maximized and click on the magnifying glass in the top-right of each pic to view them full sized; you'll probably still have to scroll the image around a bit :-/)

CLICK HERE

While not "bleeding edge", I do think it's a tough case to call the game "ugly", by any stretch of the imagination.

I used to have a whoooole lot more shots, from my original character (Shanree 1.0 as I call it), but lost them in a hard drive crash. :-/

Windower is a third party tool. It is against the EUA. It is cheating ... If you want to sing the praises of how great the game is play it as it was ment to be played: without tools, without add-on, without violating the rules of the game, without cheating.

Well first off Larry I don't know where you are from or if english is even your first language but it took me a while to understand your writing with all the spelling and grammar issues you seem to be having.

Though when you talk about the graphics you always seem to bring up stuff about the grass. How it has no texture and the like. FIrst off I have to agree with you when it comes to grass in ffxi its normally green painted with specs there is not texture and most of the time it's only 2D. When it is 3D it's normally just a patch here or there. But i have to say as far as other things go like armor and the like FFXI does a pretty good job considering it's older then games like L2 and WoW. I think the graphics are pretty good even compared to games now. Granted it's no AoC and when you compare ffxi graphics I'm not sure if you are comparing them to other MMOs or other games in general because MMOs usually don't have the graphics of an FPS game for a various reasons.

On top of that I'm guessing you still haven't made it to endgame yet or even attempted to try anything besides lvling and Missions so far. Saying FFXI does not have content is about the most rediculous thing I've ever heard. FFXI by far has more content then any game I have ever played and I've played a few. DAoC, SWG, L2, AO, EVE, EQ2, and a few others not worth mentioning like Flyff.

Originally posted by k11keeper

Well first off Larry I don't know where you are from or if english is even your first language but it took me a while to understand your writing with all the spelling and grammar issues you seem to be having.

I learned my English from FFXI. All English uses in the game are likely translated by Babelfish. It gave me real a hard time to read the non-American or British English. But if you are natural Americans should be no big deal to read non=American English. But writing good in English is another thing. For example:

I suspect the translation in FFXI is not done by American or maybe an American can't write good. Or perhaps it is not the translation but the script writer, perhaps the game scripts all written by a Japanese. Don't need to sorry for him because reading the text already cuased my English fall back, Fire Him.

Poor graphics is just minor thing to me. The biggest setback to this game is Combat Zoom. If the combat runs normally, I guess I would be happier. Second setback is the camera. You can still try to manage the others painfully, but combat zoom and camera are sources of fun-killer in this game.

This game required heavy grinding but with poor combat mode, it is  truly an anti-intelligence design. Did I mentioned use range attack is not considered in battle?

If you use BOW attack without trigger /attack <t>, the game does not consider you in a battle, that's another anit-intelligence design.  

Well the camera in ffxi did take some getting used to when I first started but after you get used to it other games will be hard to get used to. SE didn't follow the traditional layout with there MMO they seemed to make most aspects fromt he ground up. If you have camera issues though I would not recommend playing Neverwinter Nights 2 that camera was absolutely rediculous. I could never get used to it and moving around a dungeon was almost impossible at times.

The reason /range <t> works outside of battle would have to be because if you were in combat mode it would be almost impossible to pull and get back to your party without getting wacked to hell. Once the mob is on the tank though using ranged attacks is cake.

Originally posted by WSIMike

Here's my ever-growing gallery of pics from in-game... (best viewed with the browser maximized and click on the magnifying glass in the top-right of each pic to view them full sized; you'll probably still have to scroll the image around a bit :-/)

CLICK HERE

Yup, that just pulled the final nail out of my coffin. I am going to resubscribe now.....Imma end up logging in and blowing all my Gil on chocobo races....again. 

@the person saying Windower is like cheating....wtf are you smoking it makes it more playable and adds stuff that SE cant b/c of the PS2. You are a butthurt PS2 player or just insane. If SE was really against it and felt like it was cheating they would ban the Devs for. It is not like they dont have their names tied into the project.

~HappyGaming

Originally posted by Larry2298

Originally posted by k11keeper

Well first off Larry I don't know where you are from or if english is even your first language but it took me a while to understand your writing with all the spelling and grammar issues you seem to be having.

I suspect the translation in FFXI is not done by American or maybe an American can't write good. Or perhaps it is not the translation but the script writer, perhaps the game scripts all written by a Japanese. Don't need to sorry for him because reading the text already cuased my English fall back, Fire Him.

Funny, I understand everything in FFXI just fine. Perhaps you're confusing the way they give Taru and Mithra their own "style" of speaking with "poor English"?

Mithra deliberately have multiple r's in their speech at time and Taru have a way of talking in rhymes, or adding trailing bits on to certain words.

So, if that's what you're referring to, that's not poor English, or poor translation.. It's how they have those races speaking deliberately.

Poor graphics is just minor thing to me. The biggest setback to this game is Combat Zoom. If the combat runs normally, I guess I would be happier. Second setback is the camera. You can still try to manage the others painfully, but combat zoom and camera are sources of fun-killer in this game.

The camera in FFXI is, like much else about the game, its own design and implementation. It has its quirks, but I can't help but feel that you over-state the issues you have, because despite its quirks, it is a perfectly usable system. And note, that I say "quirks". Not "flaws".

I've never had any issue with the camera in FFXI at all. And believe me, poor camera control is something I've quit, or otherwise stopped playing other games over (Silverfall comes to mind.. *horrid* camera control in that game).

In fact, the way the camera works has actually become part of how I play the game. If I'm in battle and taking too much hate, I'll unlock the camera and turn away from the mob so the tank can get hate back. If I need to get around behind the mob as Thief to set up a SATA, being locked on to the target assures that I'm always facing the mob and need only to run around behind it. The benefits go on and on.

That you can't get a grasp on it doesn't mean it's "poor". Especially when so many others are playing with it just fine.

This game required heavy grinding but with poor combat mode, it is  truly an anti-intelligence design. Did I mentioned use range attack is not considered in battle?

If you use BOW attack without trigger /attack <t>, the game does not consider you in a battle, that's another anit-intelligence design.  

Oh, come on...

This has been explained to you *at least* once - by me. And I recall seeing others explain it.

At this point, you either didn't read any of the responses you got, or did and simply want to complain about it anyway.

First of all, not going into attack mode automatically is not anti-intelligent design. That you don't like it doesn't make it anti-intelligent design. There are very good reasons why it's good to not automatically go into attack mode when using ranged.

One key one that is used throughout the game is when you're a puller for a party, getting mobs and bringing them back to your camp spot. That you can simply target a mob, use /range <t> and then turn and run without having to be "locked" in combat. Even if you are in attack mode, you can unlock the camera by pressing H on the keyboard or a gamepad equivalent. This has also been explained to you in the past, yet you insist on complaining about it.

But there you go that's at least *one* good example of why not automatically going into attack mode when you use ranged is not only a "good" thing, but highly useful.

The only problem with using /range and /attack is the one you're creating and perpetuating for yourself by ignoring the advice people here have given you in the past, time and again.

Besides that, once again, I personally provided you with macros to use to use a ranged attack and then automatically go into attack mode. I posted this for you at least 2 weeks ago. I'll provide it for you once more.

Please read it this time.

Target your mob, then use a macro with the following lines:

Line 1: /attack on

Line 2: /wait 2

Line 3: /range <t>

That's it...  3 simple lines and all your "problems" with using ranged attack are solved.

If you don't know how to make a macro, Google it. There's plenty of info out there on it.

As for the battle system.. Again, your inability to get a grasp on it doesn't make it poor. And when you get farther into the game, start partying, using skill-chains, magic-bursts and understanding the different types of damage, what elements have the most effect on mobs, aggro management and on and on... it's *far* from an "un-intelligent" design.

Seems more likely that it's just too much beyond *you* to be able to grasp it, and the problems you're having with the game are those you're creating - or perpetuating - for yourself.

If you spent more time trying to actually learn the game, and less time looking for things to whine about - and your list just keeps getting longer - you'd be having a better time of it.

 Look... I honestly don't know what your agenda is here.

It's almost impossible to believe you're seriously trying to play and enjoy the game, because those who post for that reason will bring up their concerns/questions, accept the solutions they're offered (as you've been given many times now by several people here) and go on to enjoy the game.

You, on the other hand ignore any solutions you're given and come right back to complain about the same exact things only weeks later.

So what's your deal? Are you trying to enjoy the game, or are you simply here to keep bitching, whining and complaining about it, even when you no longer have any reason to?

Originally posted by ic0n67

Windower is a third party tool. It is against the EUA. It is cheating ... If you want to sing the praises of how great the game is play it as it was ment to be played: without tools, without add-on, without violating the rules of the game, without cheating.

Welll..... yes and no.

I don't advocate the use of 3rd party tools that provide an advantage to one player that isn't available to all players (ie. PS2 and 360 users do not have access to such add-ons). However, you can use Windower without it automatically being cheating. I did for a time before SE implemented the native windowed support.

Simply don't use any of those types of plug-ins.

I used Windower so I could alt-tab out of game without having to log out, etc. The only add-on I used was the one that allowed me to render the terrain farther away... which was purely for aesthetics and gave no tactical advantage either.

I always felt "wierd" about it, though, 'cause I was using a 3rd party app, although I wasn't using it to cheat. So, when SE implemented native windowed mode, I stopped using it.

I agree, too, that the argument people use that "SE didn't implement them because..." is empty. It also implies that they would have, "if they could".

SE could have implemented support to see other players' TP bars, or any other such thing. They didn't implement them because they didn't want to, because it' undermines the need to communicate in a party, which is one of the things they emphasize in the game's design...party coordination through communication.

Whether or not they "could", I highly doubt they would have implemented into the game the ability to read the game's memory to see where and when a NM's time and place of death was, as well as to know which mobs are the placeholders (in the case of lottery spawns) and to know when it's spawned, and then automatically run - or even warp - to it and claim it  before it even appears on screen. Yet there's a plug-in for Windower that does that.

Whether or not they "could", I doubt SE would have implemented the ability to run at "Flee" speeds or faster without THF being an active main or sub job, or having a piece of gear equipped that provides it. Yet there's a plug-in for Windower that lets you do that.

Whether or not they "could", I doubt SE would have implemented an automated fishing system that automatically equips bait, casts and can target specific fish and avoid catching monsters by reading the game's memory and knowing what's on the line... releasing whatever the user don't want and only catching what they do. Yet there's a plug-in for Windower that does that.

The examples go on and on... And those are all things that people *do* use Windower for.

So seriously... the argument that "Windower only allows the things that SE couldn't do..." is a false and completely transparent attempt to justify using add-ons for personal advantage. It's a lie.

 If you're going to use such add-ons that give you an advantage that other players don't, or can't use then that's your business and your account you risk at having banned if you're busted. But at least have the intellectual honesty to acknowledge it for what it is... cheating.