The only gear availible with just honor and tokens with be some welfare blues, some crafted blues and some random pieces of epix and from then on its arena or bust. I'm yet to see one single person agree on the forums that they want 100% focus on arena yet blizzard implemented it, they even added a hint that they reduced it to 10 matches/week because they know everyone hates arena.

I really wish they would stop ignoring their portion of customers that hate raiding and arena, I jus wanna log in and gank people! :P

Time for a new game? doesnt sound like your into raiding to much.

they're desire to push arenas is why i cancelled my account of 3 years. i can log onto warhammer and have my daggers in someones back in under 2 minutes. i love wow and i'd say its still probably the most fun i've had online but its just not a pvpers game.

I prefered the PVP back when there was no BG's and we all used to do world PVP and it didn't matter that there was no effect on the world because raiding a city with loads of people and the whole tauren mill thing was just fun.

All my friends but one quit after TBC because it ruined the game.

Originally posted by grimboj

The only gear availible with just honor and tokens with be some welfare blues, some crafted blues and some random pieces of epix and from then on its arena or bust. I'm yet to see one single person agree on the forums that they want 100% focus on arena yet blizzard implemented it, they even added a hint that they reduced it to 10 matches/week because they know everyone hates arena.

I really wish they would stop ignoring their portion of customers that hate raiding and arena, I jus wanna log in and gank people! :P

The problem, as they have already stated, is that they haven't yet developed a way to reward the 'good' pvpers in BGs.  The problem with BC was that people would just grind through BGs and get epics without ever proving they were doing anything other than queueing.   The reason Arena can reward players is because there is a clear ladder system.

In beta, the devs said one of their highest priorites will be developing some sort of  ranking system for BGs so they can reward gear equivalent to the best Arena gear.   The current system has nothing to do with esports.. it has much more to do with a way to figure out who the good pvpers are in BGs.

I know sometimes in BGs, I don't pay a lot of attention. I'll do AV and just run in the middle of the pack, casting spells now and then and doing a decent amount of damage.  I could never do something like that in Arenas and get the best gear.

The talk always comes down to "well reward the people with the most kills, or the top dpsers and healers" etc... but that totally takes a lot of strategy out of most of the BGs which require defense and guarding.

I'd like to take this opportunity to post your ideas on this question.   Lets say 100 people do 100 BGs..  how would you determine who the best 10 are?

Yeah some of the good BG players get the shaft but don't blame blizzard, blame all the AFK losers, they tried lots of other things to stop them but they kept doing it -shrug-

Arena's have always only taken 10 games a week to maintain a good decent rating, i can't say if i like arena's or not, i havn't tried them yet.  I'm sure people will rush in here claiming how bad things are thats why the afk but it doesn't matter what your excuse is, blizz doesn't want afkers so they will do whatever they have to, to stop it.  There are people who think Arena and BG's are perfectly fine so really nobody is right or wrong about them.

Warhammer Online is that way. ->

Will people that use the Arena have to maintain a certain rating to wear epics? Or will it be based purely on arena points? 

Yea, I hate to say it, but WoW is a PVE dominant game. PvP is not the game's strength. You may want to give WAR a go if PvP is your thing

Originally posted by Sacfed

Will people that use the Arena have to maintain a certain rating to wear epics? Or will it be based purely on arena points? 

 

Basically it breaks down like this

Before Wrath -  play lots of BGs, collect honor and tokens, get welfare epics

After Wrath - play lots of BGs, collect honor and tokens, lose 10 2v2 arena games a week, get welfare epics.

You can basically get the same gear as before, you just have to form a 2man team and play 10 games a week in the Arena. 

You can get better items if you win more than you lose in those 10 games.  I don't think it will be hard to have a winning record if you actually try since there will be a ton of teams just trying to lose fast.

Originally posted by grimboj

The only gear availible with just honor and tokens with be some welfare blues, some crafted blues and some random pieces of epix and from then on its arena or bust. I'm yet to see one single person agree on the forums that they want 100% focus on arena yet blizzard implemented it, they even added a hint that they reduced it to 10 matches/week because they know everyone hates arena.

I really wish they would stop ignoring their portion of customers that hate raiding and arena, I jus wanna log in and gank people! :P

What do you mean they're reducing to 10 matches a week?  10 was the minamum before.

Originally posted by crysomore

Originally posted by grimboj

The only gear availible with just honor and tokens with be some welfare blues, some crafted blues and some random pieces of epix and from then on its arena or bust. I'm yet to see one single person agree on the forums that they want 100% focus on arena yet blizzard implemented it, they even added a hint that they reduced it to 10 matches/week because they know everyone hates arena.

I really wish they would stop ignoring their portion of customers that hate raiding and arena, I jus wanna log in and gank people! :P

 

What do you mean they're reducing to 10 matches a week?  10 was the minamum before.

they even added a hint that they reduced it to 10 matches/week because they know everyone hates arena.

Just a troll trying to get people to believe the devs said this.

They've already stated they will be doing something substantial with BGs soon, as soon as they can figure out  a way to reward 'good' players rather than just grinders.  Read my thread and post your ideas on how to seperate grinders from peopel with skill

http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=6104940461&sid=1

a player can generally get about a piece of the Savage Gladiator set with the points from one week (10 games), which is generally about a time investment of less than an hour of arena play per week..... It's certainly valid to express one's dislike for the arena playstyle, although is it entirely different than requiring players that love the arenas to play in the battlegrounds to get their boots, belt, bracer, rings, neck, trinkets, and cape? One could also make the argument that it's somewhat similar to the fact that we "require" all players to level-up in order to participate in end-game content, or perhaps that engaging in tradeskills is "required" to be maximally competitive in raiding or pvp gameplay.

To me I read "We know you hate arena as much as you hate the xp grind"

Just because someone makes a valid point and you can't generate a valid counter-argument doesn't mean they're trolling :P

" they know everyone hates arenas".... .um.. you think that was accurate?  and not a troll-like comment?

They didn't say they know everyone hates arenas, they were just showing people how many arena games they have to play to get the same gear.... which ironically is 10, the same as it was before.

There are people who don't like battlegrounds, there are people who don't like crafting, there are people who don't like Arenas, there are people who don't like Raids

You think it shows something is wrong with Blizzard because they know certain people don't like certain aspects of WOW?

Don't worry so much OP. I feel the same way but I hope blizzard's bg system change will cure the problem that was stated in Blizzcon.

 Seems fine to me, if you want everything, you have to do everything.

Originally posted by SonofSeth

 Seems fine to me, if you want everything, you have to do everything.

That is what I was thinking too.  I don't see why someone would hate doing 10 2v2Arena games but love doing 10 WSG games.   I personally love EotS and AV, but don't enjoy WSG and AB.  I'd rather do Arena than WSG.

It begs the question -  When Blizzard does figure out a way to rank BGs, and they do put the best armor in BGs.. will people want to get ALL their armor by doing just 1 BG..and will they complain if Blizzard makes them do WSG and AB to complete their sets.

ye.. cuz at tbc..start.. honor items were anything apart old 60th gear made into 70th.. in blues..

cuz untill s2.. about 6-12 months .. cant remmebr... there were no epic items from honor.. get REAL

they aint reseting honor.. and you want full epics..

ye sure.. ding 80th.. 2 mins later ur in half epics.. man the crying these days about easymode epics is just bullshit

even warhammer ask for more effort while getting gear..

WoW never was a pvp game to begin with, it was pve with pvp tacked on as an aftert hought. As a matter a fact i remember reading an issue of EGM were WoW was the cover story, and one of the inviewers asked the devs what were the thoughts on pvp in WoW, and the dev was like pvp isnt a big focus for them but it would  be in game just not a heavy focus. And this was like a yr before WoW actually released. So if you are looking for any kinda good pvp WoW isnt it especially when it comes to class balance issues. Thats one of the main reasons why most people hate arenas

Originally posted by unimatrix8

WoW never was a pvp game to begin with, it was pve with pvp tacked on as an aftert hought. As a matter a fact i remember reading an issue of EGM were WoW was the cover story, and one of the inviewers asked the devs what were the thoughts on pvp in WoW, and the dev was like pvp isnt a big focus for them but it would  be in game just not a heavy focus. And this was like a yr before WoW actually released. So if you are looking for any kinda good pvp WoW isnt it especially when it comes to class balance issues. Thats one of the main reasons why most people hate arenas

And that is the beauty of having like 5M subscribers in NA/EU.  Blizzard has a ton of money to expand there game.   While Warhammer's subscribers drop like a rock, the devs will only be able to focus on small things.  Blizzard has a huge dev team and you can tell by Lake Wintergrasp.  LW has more seige mechanisms by far than Warhammer.  Moveable seige engines, aerial combat and bombers, troop transports, destructable terrain and buildings... all of those things were added for the pvp part of WOW.. and they are all things that Warhammer (the supposedly pvp game) doesn't have.

Yes. WOW started out as a pve game, and it was so good at it that it now has the money to be the best game at pvp too.  Just like Microsoft started out doing operating systems, but now dominates desktop applications.   Having a huge revenue stream allows you to branch to other areas and beat out the competition in even that area... anybody even know what wordperfect is any more?

In 3 weeks, Warhammer pvp will be 'old' compared to what WOW is bringing.

Originally posted by Azrile 

In 3 weeks, Warhammer pvp will be 'old' compared to what WOW is bringing.

Er... no. PvP in wotlk remains pretty dire. Ok so it's better than BC but that new zone really ain't all that great and the big arena push is just depressing and as for class balance.... HAHAHA. Got to the stage where I'm going 'Is that it? All this time and money and this is all you monkeys could come up with???'

PvP in warhammer is flat out better. Overall it's not my cup of tea but it is better than anything wotlk has to offer, and that's despite the various balance issues.

TCoS and Aion on the otherhand really do the pvp/pve mix just great. So OP if your not interested in WAR and don't want to spend ur days running around in an arena box then I recommend ditching wow and saving ur money for tcos or Aion.

Or you  can listen to the wow fanbois and go play in a shiney new pvp zone which is GREA... ok rather lackluster and uninspired. Or go play BGs for scraps. Or run around and around and around in a pvp box where fotm class/teams still rule the roost (but don't worry they'll balance it nxt patch... no i mean next patch... ok next expansion... honest guv).

Originally posted by grimboj

http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=6104940461&sid=1

a player can generally get about a piece of the Savage Gladiator set with the points from one week (10 games), which is generally about a time investment of less than an hour of arena play per week..... It's certainly valid to express one's dislike for the arena playstyle, although is it entirely different than requiring players that love the arenas to play in the battlegrounds to get their boots, belt, bracer, rings, neck, trinkets, and cape? One could also make the argument that it's somewhat similar to the fact that we "require" all players to level-up in order to participate in end-game content, or perhaps that engaging in tradeskills is "required" to be maximally competitive in raiding or pvp gameplay.

To me I read "We know you hate arena as much as you hate the xp grind"

Just because someone makes a valid point and you can't generate a valid counter-argument doesn't mean they're trolling :P

That says that in the minimum amount of games, if you do well, it's possible that you can get enough arena points to purchase a good piece of gear each week. If you do horribly, it'll take you a while to get anything, though.
 

They go on to say that it's fine if you don't like the arenas, as there are other options for progression available to you - but it would wrong to force those progression paths on those that DO enjoy the arena, and they should be able to get all their gear from it if they choose to.

The guy also compares it to other parts of the game such as leveling, saying that it's similar in the fact that you actually have to invest some time and effort into improving your character enough to get to end-game, just as you have to invest some time and effort to actually get this gear.

In my opinion, Arena should definitely be another form of progression, and it's alright - it definitely rewards skill better than most things out there. That reason, however, is why most people hate the arenas: because they don't HAVE any skill.  They lose, they get frustrated, they complain the other classes are OP, they go back to grinding their shittier gear in the BGs, and continue to lose most of their matches in the arena anyway .... but guess what, after enough time of losses passes, you still manage to get a new piece of gear, which is great, right?

No, because you want the whole set, and it takes too damn long, because you suck. That's too bad.

NOTE: Yes, I suck at them, too, but I am not planning on using them as my path of progression. They're making everything a bit easier, with 10-man raids, and all that crap, that I'll be able to actually join in on the PvE, and play some BGs, and do the arenas now and then if I feel like it, because it's just another option available.

Gajari,

I think you hit on a good point.  One of the main reasons people do hate the Arena is because your skill is put 'out there'.   Think about this.. 50% of all Arena players will lose more games then they win.  Now think about the average MMORPG player

What will they say when they lose
1. This game sucks ( arena sucks)
2. The other team cheated ( class imbalances).

The hatred towards Arenas is so pointed because half the players MUST lose, and their score is out there for anyone to see.  No other MMORPG that I am aware of 'grades' people like this and makes it public.

Originally posted by Azrile

Gajari,

I think you hit on a good point.  One of the main reasons people do hate the Arena is because your skill is put 'out there'.   Think about this.. 50% of all Arena players will lose more games then they win.  Now think about the average MMORPG player

What will they say when they lose
1. This game sucks ( arena sucks)
2. The other team cheated ( class imbalances).

The hatred towards Arenas is so pointed because half the players MUST lose, and their score is out there for anyone to see.  No other MMORPG that I am aware of 'grades' people like this and makes it public.

Hehe, +3 for Armory!

Originally posted by Azrile

Gajari,

I think you hit on a good point.  One of the main reasons people do hate the Arena is because your skill is put 'out there'.   Think about this.. 50% of all Arena players will lose more games then they win.  Now think about the average MMORPG player

What will they say when they lose
1. This game sucks ( arena sucks)
2. The other team cheated ( class imbalances).

The hatred towards Arenas is so pointed because half the players MUST lose, and their score is out there for anyone to see.  No other MMORPG that I am aware of 'grades' people like this and makes it public.

I don't think that it's a very accurate assessment. Arenas is not really about skill unless you're talking about equally geared teams consisting of the same classes. We all know that certain classes have a particular advantage against other classes and that certain team compositions are generally better in arenas than others. Unfortunately, or fortunately (depending on how you look at it) this game is not really about skill.

With that being said, personally, I dislike arenas because to me that's not what Warcraft should be about. Warcraft is suppose to be about war, not duels and esport. Yet, the esport arenas allow you to get the best PvP gear in the game and BGs (which mimic what Warcraft should be about, do not. Another reason is the organization involved. Where as in a BG, I can just log on and do a few AV's any time I want, when it comes to arenas, I have to make sure that I log on when my teammates are on and set some time of to grind with them.

Basically, being a casual gamer, I get shafted. It doesn't matter though as I'm not planning on buying the expansion any time soon. In my opinion, there really is nothing new being introduced except for more grind.