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Originally posted by SignusM That analogy made absolutely no sense at all. You cannot compare the passing of information getting faster, to a company that has never had a single idea in its entire conception. I mean, cool analogy, but it doesn't old any weight. Ah, the trick is: neither does yours. I didn't make an analogy. Go back to grade school kid. Like I've said before, theres a difference between building on what came before, and stealing every single piece of it and adding nothing new. DAoC added RvR to the EverQuest formula. WoW...just has the EverQuest formula with sprinklings from other games. Nothing really new. No, you didn't make an analogy. You made a broadly ridiculous argument that feature lists define quality and that something simpler must be worse. I replied with an equally absurd argument based on that assumption. It's a rhetorical device called reducto ad absurdum. Can we move away from the pissing contest now? Calling people "kid" on the internet just makes you look bad. If you want to talk details rather than sound bites, it takes a lot longer and isn't nearly as entertaining. I'll toss this one out. WoW made a simpler leveling experience, the combination of many features and design decisions, that vastly more people found more entertaining than the system in EQ, DAoC, EQ2, etc... Is that a novel feature? Who cares. Entertaining to lots of people is about as good a metric as you'll get for the quality of a game. |
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Arcken
 Elite Member
Joined: 8/14/04
Lets face it, MMOs today are turning into single player console games with a chat box included. |
Originally posted by etomai Ah, the trick is: neither does yours. I didn't make an analogy. Go back to grade school kid. Like I've said before, theres a difference between building on what came before, and stealing every single piece of it and adding nothing new. DAoC added RvR to the EverQuest formula. WoW...just has the EverQuest formula with sprinklings from other games. Nothing really new. No, you didn't make an analogy. You made a broadly ridiculous argument that feature lists define quality and that something simpler must be worse. I replied with an equally absurd argument based on that assumption. It's a rhetorical device called reducto ad absurdum. Can we move away from the pissing contest now? Calling people "kid" on the internet just makes you look bad. If you want to talk details rather than sound bites, it takes a lot longer and isn't nearly as entertaining. I'll toss this one out. WoW made a simpler leveling experience, the combination of many features and design decisions, that vastly more people found more entertaining than the system in EQ, DAoC, EQ2, etc... Is that a novel feature? Who cares. Entertaining to lots of people is about as good a metric as you'll get for the quality of a game. What WoW did was turn baseball into wiffle ball.
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Both of which i could not play for i was too in aww of runescape. "Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine |
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Why do people discuss idea-stealing in mmorpgs only? |
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Originally posted by Arcken
Which makes a lot of sense when you consider not everyone can be Barry Bonds. Not everyone wants to be either. Damn Blizzard for considering what the player base may actually need instead of a few disgruntled nerds want. Why would they do such a thing? Oh yeah, to make money....... "Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice." ~Greys Law |
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Tarka
 Elite Member
Joined: 10/26/07
How can you soar with eagles, when you work with turkeys. |
Originally posted by Arcona
Why re-invent the wheel, when you can refine it. And WoW refined it well for a mass market. |
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Arcken
Elite Member
Joined: 8/14/04
Lets face it, MMOs today are turning into single player console games with a chat box included. |
Originally posted by zymurgeist
Which makes a lot of sense when you consider not everyone can be Barry Bonds. Not everyone wants to be either. Damn Blizzard for considering what the player base may actually need instead of a few disgruntled nerds want. Why would they do such a thing? Oh yeah, to make money.......
Yes, because making money is the most important thing. Disgruntled nerds? Again validates my point that WoW has brought more disrespectful young people to the genre than anything else. |
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What I think is funny is that everyone always wants to compare WoW to Warhammer online. Granted they both have similarities; but, they recieved their stories and lore from very different sources. Warhammer which I play tabletop in the form of minitures is blatanly where the game was derived from ontop of it's D&D and Lord of the Rings aspecs just like any other fantasy that has those characters within it. WoW if anyone is old enough to recall has been around for a very long time in the form of a strategy game a decade before the online game ever came out.. So instead of ranting on a dead subject that keeps getting brought up it seems everyday why don't players just enjoy what they have or move on to something else. |
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Arcken
Elite Member
Joined: 8/14/04
Lets face it, MMOs today are turning into single player console games with a chat box included. |
Originally posted by Guardian30
Gotta have athiests to their cult. Its balance. |
Originally posted by Guardian30
I'd reckon it's because there are those few that to enjoy something they must try and devalue someone else's enjoyment. |
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Originally posted by Arcken
Yes, because making money is the most important thing. Disgruntled nerds? Again validates my point that WoW has brought more disrespectful young people to the genre than anything else.
Yes for a Corporation making money is the most important thing. In fact it's the only thing. It's their entire reason for existance. Dude I'm hardly a disrespectful young person new to the genre. I'll be fifty in July. I don't play WoW. I don't enjoy the game. I've been playing MMOs for as long as they have existed. Before that MUDs before that BBS door games like tradewars. Would you please buy a clue? They're dreadfully cheap. "Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice." ~Greys Law |
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Blizzard doesn't have to steal ideas to be successful, it just helps. The main reason companies don't go out and make completely new concepts is because it is such a huge risk. It really is all about the money just like other people have posted. Thats the same reason that games are released before they should be...the "If you waited and made the game perfect before release you'd have more subscribers and be richer" isn't true. Taking good ideas cuts out a lot of effort in coming up with them and how to implement them.
A wise GM once told me, |
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Originally posted by Servase
Who gives a crap? If it works and the general consesus enjoy it, why the hell not add it to their game. Your saying this as if WAR is something special and completely unique. The "I hate WoW because it's successful" trends are pretty dull. At least give a valid reason to hate the game, and do it on their forums.
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Sabradin
 Hard Core Member
Joined: 11/24/07
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Originally posted by Servase
Its smart. Take the best from all mmorpg and put it into one. New games DONT FUCKING UNDERSTAND THAT they try to do something new themselves and they dont understand that they should just mesh together everything else into one |
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Ghist
 Novice Member
Joined: 10/21/06
Paid MMORPG subscriptions are the ONLY valid rating meters because people have to pay to vote." |
Originally posted by Arcken
Again Blizzards fault, companies want to tap into that cash cow, and thats what drives the MMO market, and thats why most MMOs right now are mindless cartoons with 0 complexity and challenge. And yet somehow the fanbois want me to say thanks? Get real.
You have to face it Blizzard just did it better than anyone else could. It became the cash cow because they are better.
Any other game has 5 times the problems and one half of the vision to keep the game successful. They may not be that original(but who exactly is in this market) but they are better programmers. Waiting for the next thing |
Originally posted by Arcken
Yes, because making money is the most important thing. Disgruntled nerds? Again validates my point that WoW has brought more disrespectful young people to the genre than anything else. Blizzard is still a company as far as I know. You know what company are here for, right ? Tell Jacobs that if his game storyline was about pink horses and fairies he'd have 10 millions subscribers within the first few months, he'd be shutting down WAR the next day and making sure that every single employee is working on pink horses and fairies MMO.
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Originally posted by Servase
Honestly, since when has Blizzard been known for coming up with their own ideas? They have always taken what other people have done, refined it, polished it, and put a small twist on it (usually making things easier). Over the past week we heard that a bunch of folks from Blizzard were not permitted into the WAR beta, had they been in the beta they would have added pq's to WotLK.
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ALL games borrow from other games, im by no means a wow fanboi, i dont event play wow.. but the fact remains, i would be pissed if mmos didnt play others, and use some of the best ideas from them, think of how bland mmo's would be if they didnt. its not just wow, its ALL of them. welcome to the genre. Divine |
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Arcken
Elite Member
Joined: 8/14/04
Lets face it, MMOs today are turning into single player console games with a chat box included. |
Originally posted by zymurgeist
Yes, because making money is the most important thing. Disgruntled nerds? Again validates my point that WoW has brought more disrespectful young people to the genre than anything else.
Yes for a Corporation making money is the most important thing. In fact it's the only thing. It's their entire reason for existance. Dude I'm hardly a disrespectful young person new to the genre. I'll be fifty in July. I don't play WoW. I don't enjoy the game. I've been playing MMOs for as long as they have existed. Before that MUDs before that BBS door games like tradewars. Would you please buy a clue? They're dreadfully cheap.
Dude, I apologize, its brought many disrespectful people, young and old, as youve so eloquenty made clear. Truly Im starting to agree that age is no indication of maturity. Dude. |
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Arcken
Elite Member
Joined: 8/14/04
Lets face it, MMOs today are turning into single player console games with a chat box included. |
Originally posted by Ghist
You have to face it Blizzard just did it better than anyone else could. It became the cash cow because they are better.
Any other game has 5 times the problems and one half of the vision to keep the game successful. They may not be that original(but who exactly is in this market) but they are better programmers.
The only two things that I think Blizzard has done better than anyone else, is bank on brand recognition, and make a game that can be played on any old system out there. Thats it, theyve done nothing else better than any other compnay. |
Originally posted by Arcken
You have to face it Blizzard just did it better than anyone else could. It became the cash cow because they are better.
Any other game has 5 times the problems and one half of the vision to keep the game successful. They may not be that original(but who exactly is in this market) but they are better programmers.
The only two things that I think Blizzard has done better than anyone else, is bank on brand recognition, and make a game that can be played on any old system out there. Thats it, theyve done nothing else better than any other compnay. Completely agree. Blizzard did nothing new. They did nothing better. As I said at the birth of this thread, I'm still waiting for someone to post a unique feature WoW has. Someone tried, but I destroyed his concept of the world I guess, so no one has since then. Really, just one unique feature. Just one. |
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stayontarget
Novice Member
Joined: 10/04/08
Girlfriends come and go but Epic battles are Soulbound |
Originally posted by DeathPriest Bingo, There is nothing wrong for a company to use the best idea's from other games. and still you can't please everyone....If you dont like it, don't play it. No need to flame the people that like the game you hate. |
Originally posted by stayontarget Bingo, There is nothing wrong for a company to use the best idea's from other games. and still you can't please everyone....If you dont like it, don't play it. No need to flame the people that like the game you hate.
Its not that they used "some of the best ideas from other games". Its that ALL their ideas were from other games, primarily EverQuest. Most companies use familiar features and build on them, making them better, and add in a few new things no one has done before, thats how the market evolves. The best companies use a few familiar features and mainly make their own game with new ideas. Blizzard, did neither of these. Blizzard just used the concepts from all the MMOs before it and made them easier and simpler. That's it. They didn't add any new dynamic, they didn't create any new content, no new mechanics. Not a single thing. |
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Ghist
Novice Member
Joined: 10/21/06
Paid MMORPG subscriptions are the ONLY valid rating meters because people have to pay to vote." |
Blizzard is one of the first to have a completely adaptable interface. That thing goes way beyond anyone elses dreams.
But that's beside the point, a lot of their ideas may not be revolutionary, but they function twice as well as any other on the market. Waiting for the next thing |
Originally posted by SignusM
<sigh> for a second here I thought you may have done it, but, time to show you that you're wrong.
Sadly, you did not prove me wrong, I await someone who can. At least know what you're talking about before you post, saves me time.
If you actually pay attention to the lore you'd learn horde is NOT actually evil. They are NOT the bad guys... period. Seems he did prove you wrong aww shucks!!! |
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Its done in all games. Imagine if Westwood Studios got royalties from all the RTS games that came after Dune 2 
If only SW:TOR could be this epic...
