Originally posted by Douhk

Originally posted by Suvroc

My main concern right now is whether there will be micro-transactions.

^this.

In all truths what game has micro transactions that give someone the upper hand via purchasable gear?  Most if not all games that have micro transactions only offer cosmetic improvements which I really don't mind. 

Originally posted by Locklain

Originally posted by Douhk

Originally posted by Suvroc

My main concern right now is whether there will be micro-transactions.

^this.

In all truths what game has micro transactions that give someone the upper hand via purchasable gear?  Most if not all games that have micro transactions only offer cosmetic improvements which I really don't mind. 

No major MMOs out now use these. But it's starting to become a trend and is an idea that is growing. The games right now that do this are for the most part just miniscule F2P games, as this is their dependance on income. I don't play F2P games, but in most I come across, they basically require you to buy certain specifications from their store in order to fully enjoy the game. Most of these I come across do in fact offer purchasable gear or the ability to wear certain gears unaccessable to "freebies".

I would say I'm fine with the micro-transactions you speak of; ones that really don't effect how the game functions or gives anyone a specific advantage. Of course, I would never use these, but for those that do it would prove to be quite a nice little feature. However, the company getting greedy is what I worry about with these things and by slowly making the mini mall more and more of a necessity. It's just a cheap way of doing business. I'd rather have a company tell me, "Want to play this game? It costs $30 dollars up-front and is $15 bucks a month" rather then...

"Hey, want to try this equally fun game? You can, 4 FREE! THAT'S RIGHT, WE USED A 4 TO ATTRACT YOUR ATTENTION! 4 FREE!! Just make sure to take a look at our mini-mall feature, which isn't included in that other game! It's just another special touch we like to give to our players... the reason we point this out to you is so you know that there are some very good features in there. And for $5 dollars at the mini-mall, you can get super special gear that makes you immediately better without any skill over the other new guy who doesn't wanna pay up!"

I just find the second example ridiculous, and I hate this way of business if you ask me.

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Originally posted by DeaconX

Originally posted by Dark_Fail

2) the combat system revolves around a form of FPS & TPS "twitch" mechanic.

 

Are you SERIOUS?? You actually want the same old bland boring -wait and go- skill button mashing bs?

I'm 100% in opposition of your opinion in this respect.  I know it wouldn't happen, but as I've said before in another thread, I would be very happy with a FAST ACTION pace of combat where CHARACTER SKILL is only a bonus to PLAYER SKILL and it is PLAYER SKILL in the end which matters most.

Anod no, hitting skill buttons in a sequence of some sort is not 'mad skills'.  Not is it exciting or challenging in any way.  Also, it's been done to death in every other MMORPG with Age of Conan being the only one to try and make it slightly different.

When I get into a combat situation, I want to feel excited damnit.

Ever play the Jedi Knight/Outcast/Academy series of games?  THAT is more along the lines of what I would love [though I'm sure due to lag it's probably not yet possible in an MMORPG].

-FIRST & THIRD PERSON View.  Freely switch between the two regardless if you're using melee or long ranged weapons.  An option to control opacity of your character would be nice so  you can somewhat 'see through' your character.  Along with a crosshair for aiming would help a lot of people I'm sure, but you should be allowed to switch that crosshair off.

-CHARACTER MOVEMENT: Should be able to crouch, go prone, duck and cover behind objects and walls, cover fire with blasters and toss explosives, MELEE should have blocking ability, Should be allowed to dodge/roll in different directions, as well as your standard methods of movement and strafing.

-MOVEMENT STAMINA METER: This would be necessary to avoid 'bunny hopping' and other ridiculously unrealistic movement.  Basically, if you start hopping around, or are constantly rolling, your stamina drains quickly.  It also recharges quite quickly, but it's enough to stop people from moving unnaturally and forcing them to instead play more realistically.  Head to head melee with some dodges and rolls, duck and cover long range.

 

Just how I see a more exciting combat system... would definately make PVP more fun.  ALMOST like the Battlefront series but a little more in depth.  Space combat and any other vehicle combat should also be 'twitch' controls.

IF all of the things seen in this trailer were possible in a Star Wars MMORPG, it'd be bliss: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAU3sl5FRSY

 

 

No. If you want those features, go play Battlefield. RPG's are about how you build your character, and your character's skills, along with some of your skills. Don't get me wrong, I love FPS as much as the next, I'm currently playing Counter-Strike more than any MMO because all the ones available are so bad, but FPS has no place in an MMO, and anytime I see an MMO is going to have fps/tps, I immediately disreguard it.

RPG's are supposed to be about building your character, making your character the best, and finding strategies to use your character the best way you can, not about how great your twitch skill is. RPG simply requires a different type of skill than an FPS. But all of the features you listed are already available in many FPS games, go play them.

God bless ya, Abrahmm.   Couldn't possibly agree more.  FPS games are fine, nothing wrong with them (JKIIO and JKA are among my favorite games of all time, and SWG got space right too), but they are not at all what RPGs are about.  I'm 100% in opposition to you, DeaconX.  There's nothing bland or boring about that type of combat to people who play RPGs.  True RPGers don't give a crap about "mad skills" anyway, button mashing or no - that's the type of mentality I'd like to see KOTORO avoid nurturing.  And many of us do find combat exciting and challenging when it's 100% character-based.

Originally posted by Locklain

Originally posted by Douhk

Originally posted by Suvroc

My main concern right now is whether there will be micro-transactions.

^this.

In all truths what game has micro transactions that give someone the upper hand via purchasable gear?  Most if not all games that have micro transactions only offer cosmetic improvements which I really don't mind. 

Respectfullly, one man's cosmetic improvements is another man's content. What I mean is even something seemingly minor like cometic changes are best left to an ingame profession IMO. It makes for a much more rounded and dynamic game.

Originally posted by DeaconX

Originally posted by Dark_Fail

2) the combat system revolves around a form of FPS & TPS "twitch" mechanic.

 

Are you SERIOUS?? You actually want the same old bland boring -wait and go- skill button mashing bs?

I'm 100% in opposition of your opinion in this respect.  I know it wouldn't happen, but as I've said before in another thread, I would be very happy with a FAST ACTION pace of combat where CHARACTER SKILL is only a bonus to PLAYER SKILL and it is PLAYER SKILL in the end which matters most.

Anod no, hitting skill buttons in a sequence of some sort is not 'mad skills'.  Not is it exciting or challenging in any way.  Also, it's been done to death in every other MMORPG with Age of Conan being the only one to try and make it slightly different.

When I get into a combat situation, I want to feel excited damnit.

Ever play the Jedi Knight/Outcast/Academy series of games?  THAT is more along the lines of what I would love [though I'm sure due to lag it's probably not yet possible in an MMORPG].

-FIRST & THIRD PERSON View.  Freely switch between the two regardless if you're using melee or long ranged weapons.  An option to control opacity of your character would be nice so  you can somewhat 'see through' your character.  Along with a crosshair for aiming would help a lot of people I'm sure, but you should be allowed to switch that crosshair off.

-CHARACTER MOVEMENT: Should be able to crouch, go prone, duck and cover behind objects and walls, cover fire with blasters and toss explosives, MELEE should have blocking ability, Should be allowed to dodge/roll in different directions, as well as your standard methods of movement and strafing.

-MOVEMENT STAMINA METER: This would be necessary to avoid 'bunny hopping' and other ridiculously unrealistic movement.  Basically, if you start hopping around, or are constantly rolling, your stamina drains quickly.  It also recharges quite quickly, but it's enough to stop people from moving unnaturally and forcing them to instead play more realistically.  Head to head melee with some dodges and rolls, duck and cover long range.

 

Just how I see a more exciting combat system... would definately make PVP more fun.  ALMOST like the Battlefront series but a little more in depth.  Space combat and any other vehicle combat should also be 'twitch' controls.

IF all of the things seen in this trailer were possible in a Star Wars MMORPG, it'd be bliss: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAU3sl5FRSY

 

While I respect your opinion in almost every regard, I simply can't play a "Rainbow 6/ CoD / Battlefield" Style game. I really hate such games. I have hated them since the NGE tried to force me to play that way. I think STARGATE is doing something like this...which is why I'm not planning to play STARGATE. Also STARWARS Battlefront 3 has been Green-Lit, so I find it hard to believe that TOR will be FPS.

ANYHOW...

I will say that you can make "turn based" combat very exciting. I play WAR at the moment and to be honest it is somewhat fast paced. The cooldowns are not long and there are a number of variables in the game that make a difference in how you apply your tactics as well as when you apply them. Also many cool animations, explotions, and effects make a game feel exciting.

In WAR player skill does count and it is you as a player that determines victory. Not your Class, Level, or Equipment. I will say that each of those elements helps, but it doesn't mean anything if you can't employ them in a way that is effective. It takes skill to beat a guy that is 3 or 4 levels above you and I do it all too often. You see, WAR is a thinking mans game. You can't just blindly run around tippy-tapping the keys as fast as you can...running in a zig-zag patteren...and ducking around rocks and corners. You have to use good tactics and you have you know your toon as well as your enemy. The guy with the fastest fingers and strongest internet connection doesn't win. It is the man who uses his brain the best. Back in the Old Pre-CU and even in the CU...it was the smarter player who walked away after a fight.

It's not that I can't play an FPS MMPRPG...I just don't want to.

Originally posted by Suvroc

Originally posted by Locklain

Originally posted by Douhk

Originally posted by Suvroc

My main concern right now is whether there will be micro-transactions.

^this.

In all truths what game has micro transactions that give someone the upper hand via purchasable gear?  Most if not all games that have micro transactions only offer cosmetic improvements which I really don't mind. 

 

Respectfullly, one man's cosmetic improvements is another man's content. What I mean is even something seemingly minor like cometic changes are best left to an ingame profession IMO. It makes for a much more rounded and dynamic game.

True, I don't think we will have to worry about micro transactions in this game though.  The outcry would far outweigh any profit they would stand to make.  What I could see is server much like what SOE did with EQ2 where they control both sales of gold and characters.

Originally posted by Dark_Fail

Sum of all fears....if

1) it's a Console Game for PS3, Wii, XBOX or any other Platform other than PC.

2) the combat system revolves around a form of FPS & TPS "twitch" mechanic.

3) no open world where almost every area is instanced.

4) few customization options for character / skill look and template.

5) shity, simplistic crafting system where crafters are meaningless and all loot is quested.

6) if micro-transactions are in anyway shape or form part of this game.

 

Don't get me wrong...

I can deal with almost anything else. I don't have to have a complete "sandbox" game. Really I would just like a few elements, like an open world to explore and some player housing would be nice. Also crafters need a real place in the Galaxy. Crafters need to be able to make most (not all) of the best loot in the game. The system does not have to be over complex, but a challenge on high end items would be nice. I do undersatnd the need for balance here and I'm willing to give and take on this subject...players need other options.

In a perfect world this game would have No Levels...only skills you could learn over time. But, I understand that the powers that be may not be ready for such a game. So at the very least I would love to see skill blocks much like the pre-CU / CU SWG. Honestly, that was the best skill system ever invented! Some variable of that system would be badass. I loved Hybrid templates!

Finally, if this is a Console Game they can shoove it right up their narrow minded ass...I won't play that simple-simon piece of shit! Bank on it!

The World is Ready for a Pre-CU Style game set in the KOTOR universe.

i was thinking about this and agree with many of you. The PRE-CU style was great - the vast # of skills form which to choose, the crafting system, etc.

However, I have to say, the combat system was TERRIBLE and Slloowwww. As much as I hated it at first, the NGE system (FPS style) is much better in terms of combat.

Give me a crysis engine for combat in a SWG MMO and I'd be happy ... maybe... sorta...

Maybe this is why they never reinstated the FRS - wanted to save it for the next MMO

:)

Originally posted by Inat_mivea

i was thinking about this and agree with many of you. The PRE-CU style was great - the vast # of skills form which to choose, the crafting system, etc.

However, I have to say, the combat system was TERRIBLE and Slloowwww. As much as I hated it at first, the NGE system (FPS style) is much better in terms of combat.

Give me a crysis engine for combat in a SWG MMO and I'd be happy ... maybe... sorta...

Maybe this is why they never reinstated the FRS - wanted to save it for the next MMO

:)

Have you Played WAR yet? It is still turn based, but it feels very fast paced. I don't know why really, maybe it's the Cool-down Timers or something. But the game does move fast.

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Originally posted by Inat_mivea
i was thinking about this and agree with many of you. The PRE-CU style was great - the vast # of skills form which to choose, the crafting system, etc.
However, I have to say, the combat system was TERRIBLE and Slloowwww. As much as I hated it at first, the NGE system (FPS style) is much better in terms of combat.
Give me a crysis engine for combat in a SWG MMO and I'd be happy ... maybe... sorta...
Maybe this is why they never reinstated the FRS - wanted to save it for the next MMO
:)

---

I agree, even the utility of Pre-Cu system was it let you chat and combat at the same time so it was very nice for socializing.

Now about NGE pseudo FPS system, it's worse than anything. No player collision, no LOS, no 3d movement, impossible to "miss".

As you say put a real FPS engine and now you talk.

Originally posted by Deewe

 

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Originally posted by Inat_mivea
i was thinking about this and agree with many of you. The PRE-CU style was great - the vast # of skills form which to choose, the crafting system, etc.
However, I have to say, the combat system was TERRIBLE and Slloowwww. As much as I hated it at first, the NGE system (FPS style) is much better in terms of combat.
Give me a crysis engine for combat in a SWG MMO and I'd be happy ... maybe... sorta...
Maybe this is why they never reinstated the FRS - wanted to save it for the next MMO
:)

---

 

I agree, even the utility of Pre-Cu system was it let you chat and combat at the same time so it was very nice for socializing.

Now about NGE pseudo FPS system, it's worse than anything. No player collision, no LOS, no 3d movement, impossible to "miss".

As you say put a real FPS engine and now you talk.

TBH...

I will have a really Hard Time playing this game if it's Call of Duty style of play. Besides don't they have a new Battlefront Game coming? People who want FPS can play that IMO.

Originally posted by Locklain

Originally posted by singsofdeath

Personally, I think that there is a simple way to appease both crowds somewhat. Add the variety of a skill-based system to a level-based game. Keep the "guiding" lines of Level-based games while allowing greater flexibility in what you wish your character to do/be.

 

Look at FFXI. It may not be the best game out there, but I personally think they did one thing right. Every character could learn EVERY class in the game. Two Classes could be active at any one time. But it gave you the option to be everything you wanted to be, a combination of different classes AND the ability to switch and be something completely different at a later time.

 

Of course, that is far from a true skill-based game, but it'd add a lot of variety and flexibility to an otherwise rigid and static system (Level-Based).

A multi-class system would be a great addition and be a better substitute for skill based than the alternative.

Also, if I understand the Hero Engine correctly it allows developers to work on the game and see what each other is doing in real-time.  If this application was to be applied to say, crafting, we could see some wonderful things arise.  Could you imagine building your lightsaber and being able to chose from a base hilt and add additional nuts and bolts and ribs to wherever you please?  That to me would be worth not having some of what SWG had.

 

To this day, PRE nge and FFXI had to have been teh best customization systems IMO
 

Originally posted by Realm-Reaper

Originally posted by Deewe

 

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Originally posted by Inat_mivea
i was thinking about this and agree with many of you. The PRE-CU style was great - the vast # of skills form which to choose, the crafting system, etc.
However, I have to say, the combat system was TERRIBLE and Slloowwww. As much as I hated it at first, the NGE system (FPS style) is much better in terms of combat.
Give me a crysis engine for combat in a SWG MMO and I'd be happy ... maybe... sorta...
Maybe this is why they never reinstated the FRS - wanted to save it for the next MMO
:)

---

 

I agree, even the utility of Pre-Cu system was it let you chat and combat at the same time so it was very nice for socializing.

Now about NGE pseudo FPS system, it's worse than anything. No player collision, no LOS, no 3d movement, impossible to "miss".

As you say put a real FPS engine and now you talk.

 

TBH...

I will have a really Hard Time playing this game if it's Call of Duty style of play. Besides don't they have a new Battlefront Game coming? People who want FPS can play that IMO.

Yeah, I wouldn't play it either.  The limitations of an FPS style MMO are too overbearing.  I like to look at my character for one thing and playing any FPS game in third person really brings out how crappy animations are.  If done correctly it could be really fun, its just too much of a risk to take.

Originally posted by jadan2000

Originally posted by Locklain

Originally posted by singsofdeath

Personally, I think that there is a simple way to appease both crowds somewhat. Add the variety of a skill-based system to a level-based game. Keep the "guiding" lines of Level-based games while allowing greater flexibility in what you wish your character to do/be.

 

Look at FFXI. It may not be the best game out there, but I personally think they did one thing right. Every character could learn EVERY class in the game. Two Classes could be active at any one time. But it gave you the option to be everything you wanted to be, a combination of different classes AND the ability to switch and be something completely different at a later time.

 

Of course, that is far from a true skill-based game, but it'd add a lot of variety and flexibility to an otherwise rigid and static system (Level-Based).

A multi-class system would be a great addition and be a better substitute for skill based than the alternative.

Also, if I understand the Hero Engine correctly it allows developers to work on the game and see what each other is doing in real-time.  If this application was to be applied to say, crafting, we could see some wonderful things arise.  Could you imagine building your lightsaber and being able to chose from a base hilt and add additional nuts and bolts and ribs to wherever you please?  That to me would be worth not having some of what SWG had.

 

To this day, PRE nge and FFXI had to have been teh best customization systems IMO
 

SOOOO agree with you on this!

Why do you guys care so much if a game is released on a console and on a pc. rather, why are you guys so concerned with how OTHER PLAYERS play the game? Isn't this about you? Aren't you paying a monthly fee for yourself and not other players? I really don't see why it matters.

I can understand that you may be upset if the game design itself suffers due to porting to consoles and having to dumb down the game for everyone. But this isn't what I'm hearing.

I think the next MMO should be something involving getting all the forum trolls and giving them some place to complain and naysay all other MMO's. It's only natural.

Originally posted by pixeldogmeat

Why do you guys care so much if a game is released on a console and on a pc. rather, why are you guys so concerned with how OTHER PLAYERS play the game? Isn't this about you? Aren't you paying a monthly fee for yourself and not other players? I really don't see why it matters.

I can understand that you may be upset if the game design itself suffers due to porting to consoles and having to dumb down the game for everyone. But this isn't what I'm hearing.

I think the next MMO should be something involving getting all the forum trolls and giving them some place to complain and naysay all other MMO's. It's only natural.

 

Console games tend to be Dumbed Down to the point where a chimp could play them well. Also Console games tend to draw L337 Kiddies and no one enjoys that kind of company.

Regardless...the powers that be have already said they plan to "side-step" the Console Market.

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Originally posted by Realm-Reaper

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Originally posted by pixeldogmeat

Why do you guys care so much if a game is released on a console and on a pc. rather, why are you guys so concerned with how OTHER PLAYERS play the game? Isn't this about you? Aren't you paying a monthly fee for yourself and not other players? I really don't see why it matters.
I can understand that you may be upset if the game design itself suffers due to porting to consoles and having to dumb down the game for everyone. But this isn't what I'm hearing.
I think the next MMO should be something involving getting all the forum trolls and giving them some place to complain and naysay all other MMO's. It's only natural.
 

---

 
Console games tend to be Dumbed Down to the point where a chimp could play them well. Also Console games tend to draw L337 Kiddies and no one enjoys that kind of company.

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Although I tend to agree that controls usually are simplified for Console Hybrids. Which in turn leads to fewer options.

Originally posted by pixeldogmeat

Why do you guys care so much if a game is released on a console and on a pc. rather, why are you guys so concerned with how OTHER PLAYERS play the game? Isn't this about you? Aren't you paying a monthly fee for yourself and not other players? I really don't see why it matters.

I can understand that you may be upset if the game design itself suffers due to porting to consoles and having to dumb down the game for everyone. But this isn't what I'm hearing.

I think the next MMO should be something involving getting all the forum trolls and giving them some place to complain and naysay all other MMO's. It's only natural.

 

Is it possible that maybe, at least to a certain extent, the medium of choice through which you access your entertainment can imply the type of gamer you generally are? Perhaps due to the nature of PC based gaming it appeals to a much more methodical type of gamer. By contrast maybe consoles really appeal to the "instant action" type of gamer where you insert a disc and off you go almost immediately.

Personally I don't care for console gaming because I find it far too linear. My MMO preference would be for that so-called "sandbox" MMO, and I've yet to see consoles attempt to go that way. So when I hear of an MMO going to both PC and console I immediately have a strong idea as to the nature of that MMO (i.e. linear).

Originally posted by pixeldogmeat

Why do you guys care so much if a game is released on a console and on a pc. rather, why are you guys so concerned with how OTHER PLAYERS play the game? Isn't this about you? Aren't you paying a monthly fee for yourself and not other players? I really don't see why it matters.

I can understand that you may be upset if the game design itself suffers due to porting to consoles and having to dumb down the game for everyone. But this isn't what I'm hearing.

I think the next MMO should be something involving getting all the forum trolls and giving them some place to complain and naysay all other MMO's. It's only natural.

 

Unfortunately they do not develop for PCs and then dumb it down, they design with the lowest common denominator and port to everything else.  This is the reason people do not want games designed for both consoles and PCs.

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Originally posted by Locklain

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Originally posted by Realm-Reaper

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Originally posted by Deewe

 

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Originally posted by Inat_mivea
i was thinking about this and agree with many of you. The PRE-CU style was great - the vast # of skills form which to choose, the crafting system, etc.
However, I have to say, the combat system was TERRIBLE and Slloowwww. As much as I hated it at first, the NGE system (FPS style) is much better in terms of combat.
Give me a crysis engine for combat in a SWG MMO and I'd be happy ... maybe... sorta...
Maybe this is why they never reinstated the FRS - wanted to save it for the next MMO
:)

---

 
I agree, even the utility of Pre-Cu system was it let you chat and combat at the same time so it was very nice for socializing.
Now about NGE pseudo FPS system, it's worse than anything. No player collision, no LOS, no 3d movement, impossible to "miss".
As you say put a real FPS engine and now you talk.

---

 
TBH...
I will have a really Hard Time playing this game if it's Call of Duty style of play. Besides don't they have a new Battlefront Game coming? People who want FPS can play that IMO.

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Yeah, I wouldn't play it either.  The limitations of an FPS style MMO are too overbearing.  I like to look at my character for one thing and playing any FPS game in third person really brings out how crappy animations are.  If done correctly it could be really fun, its just too much of a risk to take.

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Well never said third person FPS, even I would say first person FPS.

Now for people who's don't like FPS combat system you could play a melee class or a support one for combat.

Could you point me at the limitations of an FPS system vs another one because I don't see any?