last night in T2 around umm 7-11pm Destro tried our best to take the Mandreds Keep. we out numbered order slightly we had almost 2 warband full so around 44 people. I think at most Order had around 32 ish.

so we took the 4 little points first while still having enough people to keep pressure on the keep. after the points were taken we had our entire force bringing down the walls.

this entire process took around 4 hours or so due to the back and forth battles and losing a few points and recapping.

We finally broke inside fighting order and staying on the bottom floor till we got a decent enough break from the waves of order. we sent 4 tanks up to the second floor with a healer on each one so they didnt get insta gibbed.

the battle with the NPC wasnt really going well the hero keep lord hit hard really hard even the tank had trouble standing. and this was with only about 3-4 order players messing with us.

then we got hit...about 20 order players ran through our healers our tanks fell and the hero mob destroyed our entire group in seconds.

So after 4-5 hours of fighting we lost because of a NPC....the warband tired and exhasuted logged or did other things..

I kept playing till about 2am checking in on the keep, when i looked in my open group tab and saw a warband starting....about 30 of us went to the keep and took it over, and it *STILL* took a ton of work with the NPC's and the trinkle of Order players trying to wipe us. they managed to wipe us twice by disrupting our healers while the keep lord destroyed us.

we finally won after a about 1 hour.

My point it must be near impossible to take a keep if the battle is for example 50v50 with the power of these NPCs....if you dont bring just flat out more numbers these keeps cant be taken during prime time. In fact i dont think ive ever seen a keep change hands during prime time on my server.

It doesnt feel epic when we take a keep with 30 destro  and only 6 order defense while playing at 3am on a monday..

please someone shed some light

Originally posted by kazson

last night in T2 around umm 7-11pm Destro tried our best to take the Mandreds Keep. we out numbered order slightly we had almost 2 warband full so around 44 people. I think at most Order had around 32 ish.

so we took the 4 little points first while still having enough people to keep pressure on the keep. after the points were taken we had our entire force bringing down the walls.

this entire process took around 4 hours or so due to the back and forth battles and losing a few points and recapping.

We finally broke inside fighting order and staying on the bottom floor till we got a decent enough break from the waves of order. we sent 4 tanks up to the second floor with a healer on each one so they didnt get insta gibbed.

the battle with the NPC wasnt really going well the hero keep lord hit hard really hard even the tank had trouble standing. and this was with only about 3-4 order players messing with us.

then we got hit...about 20 order players ran through our healers our tanks fell and the hero mob destroyed our entire group in seconds.

So after 4-5 hours of fighting we lost because of a NPC....the warband tired and exhasuted logged or did other things..

I kept playing till about 2am checking in on the keep, when i looked in my open group tab and saw a warband starting....about 30 of us went to the keep and took it over, and it *STILL* took a ton of work with the NPC's and the trinkle of Order players trying to wipe us. they managed to wipe us twice by disrupting our healers while the keep lord destroyed us.

we finally won after a about 1 hour.

My point it must be near impossible to take a keep if the battle is for example 50v50 with the power of these NPCs....if you dont bring just flat out more numbers these keeps cant be taken during prime time. In fact i dont think ive ever seen a keep change hands during prime time on my server.

It doesnt feel epic when we take a keep with 30 destro  and only 6 order defense while playing at 3am on a monday..

please someone shed some light

I had the same situation.  Basically where you failed was only sending 4 tanks up to the top floor.  You should have sent like 10.  Not only is there a Keep Lord who probably does AoE damage meaning that each of the 4 healers were taking camage as well, but there are 4 champion mobs up there as well.  And most likely they aggroed the healers as well.

The time that we successfully took a keep we stormed upstairs with around 20 people.  This way we were able to keep the order players from Focus Firing our tanks, and we were able to get the healers outside of the upper doorway so they weren't taking the ridiculous damage from the Lord's AoE stuff. 

It still took around a half hour to take the keep, but basically the problem was you sending up only 4 tanks. you needed at least double that if you really wanted to take the keep.  And if you had 44 people.  You should have sent 20 up, and had the rest fill in if people died, and also take care of guard respawns and order people trying to come up the stairs.

That's my advice anyway. :)

But think about it.  A Keep should be difficult to assault and relatively easy to defend.  That's the nature of defending a place.

If it was just as easy to take as it was to defend, keeps would trade hands hourly.  I'm glad it's like this, because when you finally take the keep, it feels damn good.  It was one of my favorite moments in the game when that keep lord dropped and order fled because they knew we had taken the keep.

i dont get what your complaint is?

that it takes too long for you to run over order?

should it be easyer for you?

perhaps they should not let order even fight back?

the whole point to open field RvR is that its a constant back and forth struggle, except in cases when no one is there and whoever took control last has control.

its nice to see that people are starting to wander away from scenario grinding and starting to venture more into open field RvR.

you gotta understand that when a side is outneumberd, the only way they are going to put up a decent fight, as you mentioned, is if they work together better.

you said that you ended up taking control, right?  sounds like your efforts where at least rewarded, aside from the exp and renoun points.

sounds like a text book example of how fun open field RvR is, its not a quick, thing and its temporary.

mabey next time order wont make a decent showing and youll be able to take control with ease (how boring)

As a healer the way I do it is I stay  a bit below the tanks so I can still see and AOE heal them but I'm not taking any AOE damage.

It helps a lot.

The trick is to get everyone to run out to the balcony, and from there pull one guard at a time, and then finally the keep lord. there are spots out there that allows you to tank the lord far enough away from the healers / ranged dps so they dont take any dam. Just be careful not to get knocked off the keep :)

well we sent 4 up just so we knew where the agro was going to land the rest of us stormed up afterwards.

but i agree taking a keep shouldnt be easy and it wasnt it took us 5 hours and we didnt lose to the order we lost to a order NPC.

 I just  feel the NPCs are just too hard to kill when you have near equal amount of order players trying to kill you at the same time.

when you far out number the defenders is not a problem...when the numbers are closer its near impossible

Originally posted by kazson

well we sent 4 up just so we knew where the agro was going to land the rest of us stormed up afterwards.

but i agree taking a keep shouldnt be easy and it wasnt it took us 5 hours and we didnt lose to the order we lost to a order NPC.

 I just  feel the NPCs are just too hard to kill when you have near equal amount of order players trying to kill you at the same time.

when you far out number the defenders is not a problem...when the numbers are closer its near impossible

The problem is, if they made that NPC easier to take out.  You'd see the keeps changing hands way too quickly.

One thing I do think should change is the spawn rate of those guards.  Now that is damn annoying.  The ones downstairs especially.  I think the spawn rate should be decreased.  Clearing out the place, just to clear it out again, and again, and again is frustrating.

I'm not saying it needs to be removed, just toned down a little.

Originally posted by kazson

well we sent 4 up just so we knew where the agro was going to land the rest of us stormed up afterwards.

but i agree taking a keep shouldnt be easy and it wasnt it took us 5 hours and we didnt lose to the order we lost to a order NPC.

 I just  feel the NPCs are just too hard to kill when you have near equal amount of order players trying to kill you at the same time.

when you far out number the defenders is not a problem...when the numbers are closer its near impossible

I'm not sure if you know this little tidbit but it's common in most ancient and modern military strategy books that it takes about 2/3 more attackers than defenders to take a defensive point. So what you experienced seems right on. That would be for a general assault and many more than that if you want to be assured success. Assaulting anything you have to be prepared to take more casualties that's why you need more numbers it's just a general maxim. Goodluck on your next assault soldier.

I don't see what the problem is. You probably raked in tons more exp and renown than if you had been able to just waltz right in and claim it.

I'm *glad* that it's a tough fight when there are defenders. That's kind of the whole point of having a fortification to begin with. They're easier to defend.