Been trying to figure out why my passion for MMO's has been waning and why so many people on boards like this express the same sentiments.  Came up with two basic reasons.  The end of true worlds and the decline in the quality of communities.

The reason I have played MMO's since the UO, EQ days is to be immersed in another world with good people.  The MMO's out nowadays feel more like console games with their instancing and instant gratification and abrasive and shallow communities.  Personally I don't play MMO's for the instant gratification.  I play console games for that.  I want a world to explore and some depth, and thats what I personally miss lately.

I was so hyped up about AoC that I ordered the three Conan books with all the original stories and read them.  When the game came out, I made it to level 10, realized the instancing killed the immersion for me, and cancelled my account.  Then I got really hyped up for WAR.  Made it to level 12 this time.  The game is a lot of fun and very well done for what it is.  But again, all the zones and instances kill immersion.  Felt like I was just queing up in a console lobby to play some FPS scenarios.

I also think that with MMO's becoming so readily available to the masses, the communities are not as special or as friendly as they once were.  Those early MMO's weren't nearly as accesible as the ones out today, and that lack of accesibility seemed to work almost like a filter.  Lets face it, there are still great people playing MMO's, but no one can deny there are also a lot of jerks out there nowadays.  A lot of these jerks would never have had the know how to enter these worlds in the past, but Computers and MMO's have become so easy to use, any jerk with a mouse has access. I find the best communities are in the more complex, less populated, niche MMO's out there and thats about all I play nowadays.

Maybe I'm just like that old fart screaming "In my day......", but I think there are a lot of people out there, young and old alike who feel this way lately. 

I feel you pain, and have felt very much the same for a long time. I started playing mmo's with EQ, and avidly followed the new games, Daoc, EQ2, shadowbane, even wow and vanguard. with the latter two there just want't the magisty or the immersion that i felt with EQ and DAoC.  I'm no longer IMMERSED in the worlds as they are just crappy small single serving easy games. What i lOVE about EQ and DAoC is that each mob you kill is an actual event. I log into wow and kill 20000 mbos in a few minutes and i have no downtime. There was strategy in EQ. You had to be careful in DAoC. Wow, i can just runaround and kill stuff without a pause or worry, just rinse and repeat.

What it comes down to is that i agree with you. Well said. There is so much i feel missing from modern mmos that i'm to the point where i don't even buy the new games anymore, which is HUGE as i've played practically all the notable ones and bought them in the past.  /sigh.

On the upside, Mabinogi has TOTALLY engaged me, and it is a style i'm not particularly drawn to. Its free, might want to check it out. Great community, and a skill based system! NO CLASSES!!!!!!

I suspect it being equal parts us just being old farts and the post 2003 deluge of theme park  silliness.

I've yet to see a title harness the challenge of UO, EQ1, AC & DAOC minus the timesinks. First company that achieves this will have a gold mine on their hands. I hoped Vanguard would be the one but allas I'm still waiting.

Perhaps it's time to face facts today's games are built to compete with WOW which is a flawed strategy.

Blizz has made their money so try some ideas of your own.

Originally posted by Zarraa

I've yet to see a title harness the challenge of UO, EQ1, AC & DAOC minus the timesinks. First company that achieves this will have a gold mine on their hands.

Very nice. I like to think of those as the Fantastic Four of the MMO world.  Loved each of those, and those titles are what an MMO is to me.  Darkfall appears to be my last hope.  Vanguard could have been, but a lot of problems and a terrible launch prevented it from taking the baton from those 4 and running with it.

I'll second this. I agree it just hasn't been the same since UO & EQ. The people are still out there, just not as easy to find. The game itself is ever elusive. I remember when EQ refused to do a lot of things people were ranting and raving for. Screaming crazy stuff like they needed to do what players wanted because our $9.99 a month was their paycheck. Travel is great one that comes to mind first especially when there were articles written about nothing except the amount of time it could take to travel. Verant came back and said what options you had to shorten travel time and that if we gave you everything you wanted and trivialized our own content, you wouldn't be any happier and would get bored a lot faster.

They stuck to their guns on a lot of these issues for a long time saying we know better than you. I hate to say it, but I think they were right to a certain degree. You don't want to ignore your player base completely but players don't always have the most objective view on effects of what they ask for. Now games are all about the quick fix and practically make the game single player. You are the hero saving the whole world and god forbid that we inconvenience the player in any way.

Don't get me wrong, I am not knocking anyone that likes any MMO or play style out there today that will find someway to take offense to something I have said. We have different needs and ideas of the worlds we want to play in. I just know what I would love to have again:

A game that sucks me in so completely that I could play away 5 hours and never even realize it because I am so wrapped up in what I am doing. A world so engrossing that I am not just running around looking for the next quest or kill to gain exp because I am just too busy looking around. A community where you could actually join a group of people you may have never met and still spend more time sitting around talking and laughing than you do killing stuff for XP or loot. The concept that the fun should be the entire experience, not just a race to the end game. A company that is willing break from what has become the "standard" MMO experience. Listen to the players but not be afraid to say no, because they know it is the right thing to do even if we are too blinded by rage to see it ourselves. Last, but most important, enough paying players to know that unless we support the companies breaking from the "Norm", they will never have a reason to give us anything more.

Originally posted by Abruner

 Last, but most important, enough paying players to know that unless we support the companies breaking from the "Norm", they will never have a reason to give us anything more.

Hear! Hear!

Upon reading the title I thought it was another 'Credit Crisis' topic.

The problem is that the genre is no longer a niche. This has resulted in watered-down mechanics and pandering to the masses. I think the heydey of immersion and close-knit communities was when MUD's were in their prime. These were games that attracted old school P&P players who were all about creating and sustaining an imagined world. They didn't need fancy graphics or 'uber lewtz', it was all about the gameplay and community, pure and simple.

There is nothing wrong with the newer MMOs, the problem is that we don't have so much variation.

Instanced games are fine as long as there is other open games. Easy games are same thing, some hard games too.

In the city I live in people go to different pubs depending on what music they like. 10 years ago all pubs play the same junk so you kinda mixed and found few people liking the same things as you do. Now all Goth persons go to one place, hip hop fans to another and so on.

MMO should be the same thing, a nisch game for the players liking the same things as you do. Instead everybody is trying to make a new Wow meaning the games just are to close to eachother. There is some games like Eve that trying for a specific audience but they are to few.

Back in the days of MUDS, there was a lot of social intereaction because there wasn't always a lot to do.  So people talked to each other like it was  a chat room.  Later in the NWN and TSN days, the social chitchat continued.  This carried over to UO and EQ but then you also had situations where people were forced to group.

For some people, this forced grouping means great socialization.  For others, they were forced to play with people they didn't want be around  unless they were forced to.  Games matured and moved onto a model where people can solo much more of the content.  It's different, doesn't mean it's worse.

Well............

IMHO all is not doom and gloom. I think if one has been focusing on the green grass of the next new release (WAR & AoC for example) and didn't research it before hand, I can see where one would be disappointed.

There are some excellent alternitives out there to the cookie cutter fantasy grinders that climax in instanced BG and raids.

• EVE - huge "universe" with freedom to do / play how you want.
• Ryzom - a "reborn" game. Customizable skills, crafting based economy, open free form world
• Vanguard - decent "old style" influenced MMO. Has its issues, SOE has lost some focus BUT it has a huge free roaming / non-instanced world, good amount of races and classes. Very open ended with some deep crafting and diplomacy
• City of Heroes - tired of elves and dwarves endlessly fighting orcs and goblins in dozens of other games? try this!
• Asherons Call - pathetically dated but pretty much sets the standard for a huge, seamless, unique world back in 1999. Skill system and totally non-linear progression with a ton of weird twist.

I too would love to see more MMOs head in the VW direction.  As much as we complain about wanting skill based MMOs and sand box MMOs, you'd have to admit that the "world" feel is at the center of it.  IMO, that is what made the MMO genre unique, yet, thats exactly what newer MMOs have tried to phase out with heavy instancing and extremely linear world design.