Darkfall

I am a crafter, an explorer, a builder. I have killed tens of thousands of creatures. I have played PvP servers--chosen them over non PvP servers in many cases, hoping for a miracle. But every game to date plays fast and loose with PvP, allowing game design--and expecially leveling--to make a mockery of PvP.

I have never killed anyone in PvP. I have never even attacked anyone in PvP. I have no particular desire to do so. I have been killed a lot, however, generally before I knew I was attacked. And yet, I have tried out every PvP server that seemed reasonable. And why? Because of the promise inherant in PvP--the promise to add the spice of danger of the unknown.

I am content being prey--or would be, were the contest on any kind of even footing. Lack of responsibilty for PvP has always been one problem--a trivial one in my mind. Much more serious was the utter inability by any sort of action on one's part to protect oneself, short of becoming better at PvP than everyone else or hiding out in a safe zone. PvP was always far too easy for the aggressor and all too hopeless for the would-be prey.

Among the biggest problems were stealth--invisibility in particular. Leveling, and knowledge of leveling was another. I would describe my typical PvP encounter as being attacked from behind by a level 60 rogue with maxed out armor where my level 12 character was dead before I knew I was attacked and I only knew my attacker's name by scrolling through the combat log. Wow, is that a fun recipe for a game or what? And yet, it is precisely the recipe found in every game to date.

Darkfall has introduced true stealth to a game by removing tags and allowing natural camouflage. They have removed the totally artificial skill-less stealth of invisibility. They have reduced the range of game-mechanic differences between players that ridiculous leveling and weapon/armor differential brought. They have further reduced the effect of such differences by making the player largely blind to them.

By introducing full loot they have given at least some point to every PvP encounter, as well as creating risk to the aggressor. This would probably be my biggest gripe about EVERY PvP encounter I have ever had--there was never any risk for the aggressor. Heck, there wasn't any gain either---it was all very, very pointless.

The entire context of the gameworld in DF attempts to bring purpose to PvP. This is not the only game to do this. Generally speaking, games have provided worlds with meaningful PvP warfare between PvP guilds--but DF may be the first game that gives a typical husband and wife (as I play) a chance to fully explore a gameworld with constant deadly risk and yet some expectation of surviving through their own actions.

PvP provides a spice to games--even to the prey--that nothing else can provide. The more resources prey have, the more challenge is presented to the aggressors. But my experience from other games is that a solid majority of PvPers do not want challenge--they WANT to be the level 60 Rogue ruining a couple's evening. DF would seem to provide a haven for serious-minded prey and competent, competitive PvPers. I have no problem dying to a player whose skill I can admire--but dying to anyone with the time to max out a character is pretty pointless.

Phyrndyl of Rheny; republished from Darkfall Forums by request
 

I've tried to explain to a few people that an open pvp game is actually really fun for players who don't enjoy pvp, it adds danger, excitement, and makes being in a guild and grouping that much more important. A lot of PKs travel in small groups or solo. Large guilds focused on PvE and their player cities will be able to stomp most "evil" players because the lack of their size. It's the zerger factioneers that pose a threat to them, when they siege their city and try to take over the area.

There is so much to offer in DFO, but a lot of people have troubles looking over the open pvp system and full loot. I know it sounds scary, but you'll wise up and carry less on you keeping your prescious items safe in the bank. And when someone tries to gank you and you best them or run away you'll be like "Whoa, what a rush!". Freedom is everything, DFO is freedom.

Yes, nice post. I think it is true there is no real risk/reward anymore in todays mmorpg's apart from games such as EvE. Risk/Reward gives a better sense of purpose and more of a thrill when the fight is on whether your the aggressor OR the defender.

Nice post. I am interested, and starting to look forward to, every aspect of Darkfall except the PVP. I agree with you that PVP adds a needed affect to games, i just hate the gank meisters who play up people far weaker then them in games because it makes them cool.

I do like that Darfall has made thier PVP faction based. Yes you can kill anyone anywhere but it is really frowned upon to kill your own faction. They say there could be some heavy consequences for it.

If Darkfall delivers on what it is saying it will have it could be an incredible game, and for all that i will take the gankers too.

So you enjoy being a sheep? And you enjoy being ganked constantly? Then yes, you will enjoy this game.

Originally posted by ghoul31

So you enjoy being a sheep? And you enjoy being ganked constantly? Then yes, you will enjoy this game.

 

So, you haven't read his post at all?

Great post... it's exactly my same experience and feelings. I always choose PVP because it's the real thing, although I'm terrible at it, but then I feel really like adventuring in a dangerous land.

And yes rogues in WOW is the most stupid idea I have ever seen in PVP.

Great post, last game I played where i enjoyed the pvp system was lineage 2. It was wide open but with conseqences.  I never really participated in the pvp, but liked  it was there, and on occasion I had to defend myself. It added drama and made the environment unpredictable.

The key to good  meaningful pvp is keeping a balance between risk/reward. Otherwise your playing a fps.

Excellent post.  Well thought out and well written.  I agree to a certain degree that PvE players will have some advantages that they don't currently experience in other games, specifically the features you mentioned.  However, I think you and many others underestimate the ingenuity of the player base.  Despite the developers' descriptions of the game, it's feature and everyone's interpretation on how the system should work, nobody really knows how the dynamics of this game will work until you have a community populating the world and acting within its environment.

There will be a certain percentage of the population that will make it thier mission in life to kill anyone they can as many times as they can at any place within the game world that it is possible to do so.  And they will group together in order to protect their ability to do that and play in that manner.  It is not the individual ganker that will create strife for PvEers, it's the squads of murders that will roam the countryside searching for victims. 

Another thing that seems to have been overlooked is the possibilty for hacks and third party tools that allow players to overcome the limitations the game has placed on identifying potential enemies.  Is Aventurine going to be able to control this?  How?  What will be the effect of these cheats on the community within the game? 

There are a lot of questions that will not be answered until the game is actually released, assuming it releases in a playable state.  One thing I really believe is certain is that PvEers  aren't going to have it as good as many of you believe, but that is just my opinion.  I reserve the right to be wrong.