Originally posted by vesavius

I can't play a game that is this lonely. Boy, talk about destroy the soul of a MMORPG through system design choices. WAR has no community beyond introverted utility (as opposed to 'family') guilds that just exist to zerg the content in the most basic way. Noone talks, noone listens, noone co-operates.

PQs are dead where ever I go, scenerios are mindless zerg fests where victory or defeat is random and nothing to do with skill, PvE is 100% solo quest grind. It's all so soulless.

WAR imo isnt even really a MMORPG tbh... any more then TR is. It feels that everything that defines  a MMORPG has been tacked as an afterthought onto the PvP core, which is fine if you are only looking for a solo zerg grind PvP game, but it makes it a terrible MMORPG. I would rather play Savage then this game, its honest about what it is, a fantasy PvP/ RTS game, and is way more fun. I guess it didnt have the hype machine of WAR though, so most won't even try it, which is a shame.

It's a solo game if you play it like a solo game, which means you should play single player games, not games with other people. Perhaps the problem is that you're not putting in enough effort to actually get to know people or join their group/guild. It's a simple concept really and I don't think it's ever failed.

Scenarios are only zerg fests if one side has half the number of the opponent's number, which is not likely to happen to often unless people just join and instantly leave. Also, the outcome is not random, it's dependent upon the skill of the players playing, even if they're not working as a team. I get what you're trying to say, but it's because you're playing AS and WITH scrubs.

PvE is not a 100% solo quest grind because when you get these things called friends, then you're not alone anymore. I would switch servers if I was you because if this is truly the huge problem that you are facing, then go for it. You said you had a great time so if you had a great time 'solo' then imagine it in a group.

Savage is a fantastic game for its time, but once again requires group leadership and following skills to be competitive and not have 'random outcomes' that you spoke about earlier with WAR. Also, the community is small so people won't flock to it, it's as simple as that. There are broken mechanics in the game that still exist even after being given to the community Plus it wasn't marketed well enough, nor was Savage 2 and that game's beta really drove people away with its inability to be played at a comfortable level by a large amount of its testers.

My advice is to move servers honestly. You'll enjoy it more.

Originally posted by nikoliath

Crap.

Pong was a game and not a genre all by itself, and a MUD is still a MUD, infact all the innovation in MUDS could be said to have born the mmoRPG, in a round about way ~ a different genre. looking to my left I see a big list of games that all have certian aspects in common (except Planetside WW2 and a very few others), thus making them belong to a .... genre .... A car can be seen as a genre, as it is a TYPE OF VEHICLE. 

Innovation is welcome, but the post of mine you originaly chose to quote was in reply to someone suggesting that mmoRPGs need to be dismantled and completely redone. That coupled with some peoples apparent dislike for the RPG bit of an mmoRPG, would not be possible whilst maintaing enough features to qualify it as an mmo-RPG.

Once again, you are looking for an mmoSOMETHING.

All you need for a game to be a mmorpg is chat and a persistent representation of a virtual world/area where a large number of players can interact whilst assuming the persona of another sentient thing, that's it. Everything else can stripped away and replaced with whatever dev's can come up with. 

Those are the only things all mmorpgs currently in the genre have in common. 

Just because a lot of them share the same crappy mechanics it does not mean that is the only way of doing it.

There is plenty of room for creating totally new ideas.

Originally posted by vesavius

Well, that was short and, mostly, sweet.

I got 2 weeks out of WAR, about the same as AoC tbh, and now I'm done.

WAR isn't for everyone and that has been known far before it was released. WAR is a PvP centric game with PvE available. This isn't exactly new information.

I can't play a game that is this lonely. Boy, talk about destroy the soul of a MMORPG through system design choices. WAR has no community beyond introverted utility (as opposed to 'family') guilds that just exist to zerg the content in the most basic way. Noone talks, noone listens, noone co-operates.

So, because guild members refuse to chat constantly, that makes Mythic responsible? WAR chat isn't any harder to utilize than most other MMOs, so I fail to see your point as this having anything to do with design instead of natural human choice.

PQs are dead where ever I go, scenerios are mindless zerg fests where victory or defeat is random and nothing to do with skill, PvE is 100% solo quest grind. It's all so soulless.

I'm not sure why, but I always seem to have several guildmates where ever I go, so PQ's are never dead. In fact, if you hadn't noticed yet, Mythic was kind enough to make WAR a powerlevelers dream come true. Basically, you can group at level 1 with a level 40 and he can clear quest mobs and objectives, PQ's and enemy PvP objectives and you'll get full credit for everything. That alone says something about ANTI time sink. As for scenarios, WoW has them, Dark Age of Camelot has them and even City of Heroes has them. It's nothing new and it provides a training ground for people leveling up so they aren't complete retards in the T4 battles.

Open world PvP is broken on the PvP server I play on, with people just using scenerios to level to the max allowed and then sitting around and picking off players 10 levels below them that are trying to do their quests, while actually thinking that this is what quality PvP is. Frustrating and boring.

Well, as far as I know, I thought Mythic had the Chicken Curse in store for all server rule sets, including PvP servers, but I guess not. It is unfortunate and I agree, ganking is a form of mindless enthusiasm killers. All it does is promote frustration for new players.

Achievment rewards are pointless and dull. Itemisation and customisation are, frankly, rubbish. I feel no drive at all to develop my character, because I already know what she will look and handle like by looking at the (solo) guy running by me that is 2 levels higher. Pointless.

Achievements aren't there to turn players into gods. Achievements are designed to make Achievers happy by giving them cookies for doing their chores. This is the only game aside from DAoC where you can dye your armor and speaking of which, theres 20 different sets of armor for each class, so please don't tell me customization doesn't exist. Cause as far as I know, 400 sets of armor isn't exactly small potatoes.

Despite the core lore being good, the PvE quests are GPS led idiot drivel, leading you through safari parks of static mobs just wait for you to kill them.

Again, WAR is about PvP. Mythic never said PvE was designed to challenge anyones mind because frankly, no matter how well designed people get with AI, it's human opponents that prevail in the challenge category every time. Thank goodness for PvP games and companies that understand that one simple fact.

WAR imo isnt even really a MMORPG tbh... any more then TR is. It feels that everything that defines  a MMORPG has been tacked as an afterthought onto the PvP core, which is fine if you are only looking for a solo zerg grind PvP game, but it makes it a terrible MMORPG. I would rather play Savage then this game, its honest about what it is, a fantasy PvP/ RTS game, and is way more fun. I guess it didnt have the hype machine of WAR though, so most won't even try it, which is a shame.

Define an MMO? M = Massive, which WAR is. M = Multiplayer, which WAR is. O = Online and yes, WAR has that covered too. WAR is PvP centric, which seems to be your main arguement. Which has me wondering why you play on a PvP server if you don't care for it. I've also played Savage and if you think Savage is better, than by all means, go play it. Honestly though, Savage is a great FPS / RTS game, but its far from an MMO standard with the whoppin 64 players.

WAR is such a merengue of a game... Light and sugary, which gives you a rush for a little while, but leaving you to crash when it wears off... I seriously wonder if this game has any longevity at all for the general public.

Hate to break it to you, but once you've broken your MMO virginity, there will never be another MMO that will satisfy you the way you desire. I started out with EQ and Dark Age of Camelot was the only game that even came close to comparing to how much fun I had in EQ. Does that stop me from playing new MMOs? No. I just realize that MMOs are a cheap form of entertainment and maybe, just maybe, another great MMO will come out, like WoW that will suck in millions of players.

All I know is that It hasnt for me.

Btw people, change the skin on this game and it really isnt all that different from AoC, so I have no idea why you all hate one and love the other. They have far more similarities then differences if you take a better look.

Uhm, AoC was broken and half complete at launch. Please don't compare that piece of crap to WAR which is in far better condition even after AoC has had 3+ months to fix their crap and still haven't.

Both are a really sad indicator on the state of the genre to me.

AoC was sad, a great game, but absolutely horrid launch. WAR is what WAR was set out to be, which was not a WoW killer, but rather a place where people who want a PvP game with a purpose to enjoy killing each other.

Originally posted by Blodpls

Originally posted by nikoliath

Crap.

Pong was a game and not a genre all by itself, and a MUD is still a MUD, infact all the innovation in MUDS could be said to have born the mmoRPG, in a round about way ~ a different genre. looking to my left I see a big list of games that all have certian aspects in common (except Planetside WW2 and a very few others), thus making them belong to a .... genre .... A car can be seen as a genre, as it is a TYPE OF VEHICLE. 

Innovation is welcome, but the post of mine you originaly chose to quote was in reply to someone suggesting that mmoRPGs need to be dismantled and completely redone. That coupled with some peoples apparent dislike for the RPG bit of an mmoRPG, would not be possible whilst maintaing enough features to qualify it as an mmo-RPG.

Once again, you are looking for an mmoSOMETHING.

 

All you need for a game to be a mmorpg is chat and a persistent representation of a virtual world/area where a large number of players can interact whilst assuming the persona of another sentient thing, that's it. Everything else can stripped away and replaced with whatever dev's can come up with. 

Those are the only things all mmorpgs currently in the genre have in common. 

Just because a lot of them share the same crappy mechanics it does not mean that is the only way of doing it.

There is plenty of room for creating totally new ideas.

Wrong. Second Life, for example, is NOT an MMORPG.

Originally posted by nikoliath

Originally posted by Blodpls

Originally posted by nikoliath

Crap.

Pong was a game and not a genre all by itself, and a MUD is still a MUD, infact all the innovation in MUDS could be said to have born the mmoRPG, in a round about way ~ a different genre. looking to my left I see a big list of games that all have certian aspects in common (except Planetside WW2 and a very few others), thus making them belong to a .... genre .... A car can be seen as a genre, as it is a TYPE OF VEHICLE. 

Innovation is welcome, but the post of mine you originaly chose to quote was in reply to someone suggesting that mmoRPGs need to be dismantled and completely redone. That coupled with some peoples apparent dislike for the RPG bit of an mmoRPG, would not be possible whilst maintaing enough features to qualify it as an mmo-RPG.

Once again, you are looking for an mmoSOMETHING.

 

All you need for a game to be a mmorpg is chat and a persistent representation of a virtual world/area where a large number of players can interact whilst assuming the persona of another sentient thing, that's it. Everything else can stripped away and replaced with whatever dev's can come up with. 

Those are the only things all mmorpgs currently in the genre have in common. 

Just because a lot of them share the same crappy mechanics it does not mean that is the only way of doing it.

There is plenty of room for creating totally new ideas.

Wrong. Second Life, for example, is NOT an MMORPG.

I agree.  Second Life is a porn chatroom with some "rpg" elements, IF you want to count that TYPE of "roleplaying" as gaming and not a sexual deviation.  (Not that it can't  be a FUN "deviation." LOL)

The games list is FULL of "MMOs."  But to tout them all as mmoRPGs, is ludicrous.  (My opinion only, of course, albeit, I feel it has some merit.)

Originally posted by nikoliath

2. No need to try to belittle me by casting aspersions on my VAST gaming career. You cried immature! at me earlier, so  .

3. I /waved to try and prevent a tit-for-tat reply session which degenerates into a flame war.

4. My main objection to many of the posts on this forum, not just WAR, is that they are often posted by ex MMO fans. I say ex, because they are bored of MMOS, their posts often complain about subjective issues

 

5) Some posters feel a sense of satisfaction, I'm sure of it, in rubbishing in 5 minutes a game that has taken a team of dozens, tens of millions of dollars and 4 or 5 years of hard work to make.

6) I am a firm believer in people forming their own opinions on these games.

7) I think it's logical that there are a growing number of "bored" MMO fans out there, but don't blame the industry.

2) I think that your vast gaming career says a lot about you myself. I'll get back to this. Yes, your reply in question was extremely immature.

3) You have done almost nothing but degenerate this conversation.

4) There are a lot of things that are wrong and contradictory here so I will have to break this down into subgroups.

4a) Your statement that you have a problem with ex mmo fans is really... something else and I think you regard it as something that stands entirely on its own; IE you just dragged in something else to support it in this discussion. I think that a lot of the games you've played have died or deteriorated and you blame other players for leaving and/or saying bad things.

4b) So WHAT if they complain about subjective issues? SO WHAT?  On to the relevance of your comment to this thread, the chat interface and free-flowing communication being a key factor in an mmorpg is NOT a subjective reality.

5) Another really disturbing comment and snapshot of your mind. Nobody is here rubbing their hands in glee, hoping that they ruin hundreds of millions of lives and nuke years of work, perhaps laughing maniacally. Sorry, no. It is a simple case of people complaining about games, or parts of them, that they hate or dislike.

6) Obviously you do have a problem. A really big problem with it. #4 is a contradiction straight from your own post, in your own words. You also act and respond immaturely, aggressively, and persistantly at the sight of such opinions that you dislike.

7) This is illogical. If there are a lot of mmorpg players that are just sitting there, bored, than obviously that is because the industry has yet to provide something for them. Yeah...

All in all, your post read like a nervous breakdown to me personally. I think you might have some other problems going on here.

Originally posted by Gazenthia

Originally posted by nikoliath

2. No need to try to belittle me by casting aspersions on my VAST gaming career. You cried immature! at me earlier, so  .

3. I /waved to try and prevent a tit-for-tat reply session which degenerates into a flame war.

4. My main objection to many of the posts on this forum, not just WAR, is that they are often posted by ex MMO fans. I say ex, because they are bored of MMOS, their posts often complain about subjective issues

 

5) Some posters feel a sense of satisfaction, I'm sure of it, in rubbishing in 5 minutes a game that has taken a team of dozens, tens of millions of dollars and 4 or 5 years of hard work to make.

6) I am a firm believer in people forming their own opinions on these games.

7) I think it's logical that there are a growing number of "bored" MMO fans out there, but don't blame the industry.

 

2) I think that your vast gaming career says a lot about you myself. I'll get back to this. Yes, your reply in question was extremely immature.

3) You have done almost nothing but degenerate this conversation.

4) There are a lot of things that are wrong and contradictory here so I will have to break this down into subgroups.

4a) Your statement that you have a problem with ex mmo fans is really... something else and I think you regard it as something that stands entirely on its own; IE you just dragged in something else to support it in this discussion. I think that a lot of the games you've played have died or deteriorated and you blame other players for leaving and/or saying bad things.

You couldn't be further from the truth if you tried. This says alot, to me, about you. The games I have listed does not read like some mmo graveyard. I can not think of one single mmo that I am bitter about, in ANY way. I suggest next time you quote me, so you can whine, you actually bother to look at the context of my conversation and with whom it is being held. As you missed this point, like many other points you missed, I will clear it up for you. 

The post you quote was a reply to girlgeek [edited typo on name] and not [important typo fix] entirely in referance to the OP.

4b) So WHAT if they complain about subjective issues? SO WHAT?  On to the relevance of your comment to this thread, the chat interface and free-flowing communication being a key factor in an mmorpg is NOT a subjective reality.

Good for you if you feel picking fault with something that is subjective and dressing it up as a game breaking fact. And NO I am not addressing the chat user interface when I discuss subjectivity. I suggest you bother to read some of my replies here. For the record I will, just for you, state once again, I know full well what subjective means. Ifn you are going to use the quote feature atleast bother to see to whom the quotation is directed at and the context of that post.

5) Another really disturbing comment and snapshot of your mind. Nobody is here rubbing their hands in glee, hoping that they ruin hundreds of millions of lives and nuke years of work, perhaps laughing maniacally. Sorry, no. It is a simple case of people complaining about games, or parts of them, that they hate or dislike.

You can not, any more than I, know for certain that this is true. Although if you care to browse some of the rediculous posts on this site it's hard to refute what I say. Maybe you took it personally?

6) Obviously you do have a problem. A really big problem with it. #4 is a contradiction straight from your own post, in your own words. You also act and respond immaturely, aggressively, and persistantly at the sight of such opinions that you dislike.

You fail once again. It is not a contradiction. I have not told anyone to like this game, or any other game. I argue points that people make, but always believe people should try for themsleves. I often state in the "should I play this game" threads... try it for yourself.

7) This is illogical. If there are a lot of mmorpg players that are just sitting there, bored, than obviously that is because the industry has yet to provide something for them. Yeah...

 It is amazingly common for people to consume a hobby at such a rate they become tired of it. Just look at the sports people take up when they are on the TV or in season. The play play play until they get bored. After a break from it they pick it up again.

The notible difference with this industry is the rate of consumption. Some people will play for 4-8 hours per DAY. I will say again, nothing can quench these peoples thirst for new things to experience within this GENRE. And instead of taking a break, they complain that the industry is failing them or rubbishing a new mmoRPG for being.............................an mmoRPG!

All in all, your post read like a nervous breakdown to me personally. I think you might have some other problems going on here.

If that is your opinion, good for you, I know differently. It is perhaps somewhat ironic, or moronic, that you lambast me for hostility in the face of disaggreement, and yet ridicule me and suggest I have mental health issues for writing something you do not agree with. And you call me out for "contradiction" 

Thank you Dr gazenthia, sadly you reply is total bile.

Mind how you go.

Originally posted by vesavius

a really sad indicator on the state of the genre to me.

That about sums it up. MMORPG's are DEAD.

Originally posted by Nikoz78

Originally posted by vesavius

a really sad indicator on the state of the genre to me.

That about sums it up. My enthusiasm for MMORPG's is DEAD.

Edited for you 

Originally posted by Nikoz78

Originally posted by vesavius

a really sad indicator on the state of the genre to me.

That about sums it up. MMORPG's are DEAD.

If millions of MMO fans means MMO's are dead, than how did they ever get past M59, UO and EQ with less than a million players total. MMO genre has done nothing but grow since mid 90's and I don't see it ever changing. It just seems dead cause the market is flooded with a lot of useless attempts at MMO material.

Heck, UO and EQ are still alive after 10 years of competitive bombardment. WoW has 10 million subscribers by itself and that list of MMO's to our left isn't even a complete list. The only problem with MMO's today are companies trying to cash in on console adaptation which has turned MMOs from creative and challenging to mind numbing and boring.

Originally posted by nikoliath

That about sums it up. My enthusiasm for MMORPG's is DEAD.

Yes, you are correct. My enthusiasm for dumbed-down and linear MMORPG's IS dead. If you think WAR is an MMORPG then you as a player have very low standards. I've had more fun PvPing in games like Battlefield Vietnam. Evan as an online Xbox console game this effort is weak. You likely started playing these games in 2004 when WoW came along. If you were experienced you'd know better. But then again - maybe you just have low standards for what a massive online role playing game should be. By all means, enjoy your new toy.

MMORPG's are DEAD.

Originally posted by Nikoz78

Originally posted by nikoliath

That about sums it up. My enthusiasm for MMORPG's is DEAD.

Yes, you are correct. My enthusiasm for dumbed-down and linear MMORPG's IS dead. If you think WAR is an MMORPG then you as a player have very low standards. I've had more fun PvPing in games like Battlefield Vietnam. Evan as an online Xbox console game this effort is weak. You likely started playing these games in 2004 when WoW came along. If you were experienced you'd know better. But then again - maybe you just have low standards for what a massive online role playing game should be. By all means, enjoy your new toy.

MMORPG's are DEAD.

How wrong can 1 person be?  I started in 2001 with Anarchy Online and loved it. I moved on to Neocron and then on from there WoW was one of the last few I played, I avoided it for years because the art style did'nt appeal to me, but I decided to try it for myself and enjoyed it for some time. I have played, sampled and enjoyed many MMORPGS. I am not dictating to anyone how good WAR is or is not, or any other game for that matter.

But for you to make a statement of fact : "MMORPGs are dead", is bollocks. Brag all you like about your highbrow view on you think is a great MMORPG, and slurr those of us who do not share your apathy.

Tbh they should have just cut the scenarios from the game and focused on a more fulfilling RvR experience. Course the downside to a pure RvR game is that any faction population imbalance would put the less populated faction at a disadvantage.

How do you combat this? I've yet to come up with a solution.

As one guy mentioned earlier in the thread, the itemization is shocking in some areas. I'm finding bright wizard gear with heavy willpower/weaponskill. Wth? The junk items find their way to the salvagers.

But it's early days and I'm still enjoying the game. The moment I don't.. well then it'll be time to quit.

Goodbye to all you that are leaving. You will not be missed. This game is fricking sweet. I loves it.

later haterz /wave

the game is mad rad :D

Originally posted by bee52

Tbh they should have just cut the scenarios from the game and focused on a more fulfilling RvR experience. Course the downside to a pure RvR game is that any faction population imbalance would put the less populated faction at a disadvantage.

How do you combat this? I've yet to come up with a solution.
 

Well a three faction system like DAoC would have been better - as if one side get too powerful the other two presumably fight each other less.  In theory at least.
 

I've always thought that 5-way RvR is the way to go, with each faction having two mortal enemies.. a bit like the Magic: The Gathering colours.

That way there are plenty of opportunities for the other factions to gang up on a single faction which extends itself too much.

Originally posted by rawrxbrad

later haterz /wave

the game is mad rad :D

Indeed it is. I love it.

Originally posted by jzuska

Goodbye to all you that are leaving. You will not be missed. This game is fricking sweet. I loves it.

"Congo rats" on finding a game you love!  Isn't that what it's all about?

I feel the EXACT same way about the people that may be leaving games that I like and play, for other games. :)   It just makes less friction in the game if people that don't enjoy it, aren't PLAYING it.

If everyone would just play the games they love for the enjoyment they bring TO THEM.....the gaming world....would be a better place.

Ahhhh, the mating call of the Vanboi ... Oh wait... its the mating call of the AoC boi... hmmm, wait.....

Originally posted by girlgeek

Originally posted by jzuska

Goodbye to all you that are leaving. You will not be missed. This game is fricking sweet. I loves it.

 

Congrats on finding a game you love!  Isn't that what it's all about?

I feel the EXACT same way about the people that may be leaving games that I like and play, for other games. :)   It just makes less friction in the game if people that don't enjoy it, aren't PLAYING it.

If everyone would just play the games they love for the enjoyment they bring TO THEM.....the gaming world....would be a better place.

Amen brother.. sister