General Discussion

So I've been reading a few threads on leveling, End-game and one word that comes into it all; speed. I won't mention any names so don't worry but there are more than a few people on certain sub forums that frequently put forth issues on leveling speed, often stating that its taking too long to reach end-game. Now in some instances there have been posters making retorts to this with references to the old EverQuest and Lineage days, which is correct in my opinion, albiet in a Massively Multi-Player Online game kind'a way.

Personally I've always felt that the dream is in the journey, and that even having such a term as end-game is contradictory to what an MMO is suppossed to be in the first place. What is wrong with having to plough through a legion of levels? I do not understand why people are so desperate to reach all this end-game content and skip the most immersive parts, for the most part all it holds is a rehash of what you've been doing on your way to cap + a donkey load of cliched garbage to boot.

Ultimately I think I think a rewind and redesign is in order, carrot on a stick? sure, but why not make that string a little longer.

End games should not happen

I agree with you Speed, I am from the Eq and Lineage 1 days, those were some good times but todays generation is the insta gratification, I only have 2 hours to play type crowd and it's only going to get worse.They should put warning labels on the box or direct download " This game requires massive amounts of time and investment, in some cases may even require you to think "

Originally posted by paulscott

End games should not happen

Well yes, this is my point. However, you obviously cannot display infinity but still, I feel that developers can do more to make the journey to the top more memorable.

Originally posted by paulscott

End games should not happen

MMO are supposed to be about the journey, not rush to the end so we can gear farm.

Originally posted by Speedhaak

Originally posted by paulscott

End games should not happen

 

Well yes, this is my point. However, you obviously cannot display infinity but still, I feel that developers can do more to make the journey to the top more memorable.

I think the journey would be more appealing if there was more variety.  Level base games don't have a lot of variety you are only striving for that next level.  If they were to go back to a skill base game or a level skill base combo I think the journey would be much more fun.  You would have a lot more dings to look forward to.

The whole mentality of rushing to max level came with the advent of PvP in MMORPGs. People seen to be ever detracting from what a MMORPG is about - the adventure.

I think this has a lot to do with the fact that many games seem not so much a journey as a grind. This might be the reason that a lot of disillusioned MMO vets are hoping that Sandbox-style games are the answer.

I agree.

Look at The Lord of the Rings (the book, nopt the mmorpg), for instance. Most would agree on that it constitutes a pretty good example of how a good fantasy adventure could look like. It's mainly a long journey with Frodo and Sam leveling their asses off. While it does involve some help from high level characters and some addtitonal twinking (there's no way Frodo at that level should get that orc sword of pwnage), the 'end game' is a couple of seconds long when Frodo throughs the ring into the fire.

The 'end game' discussion should rather focus on core activities within mmorpg's. Activities which do not have a defined end to them, and where participation should not be determined by levels but by choice of players.

Originally posted by Artean

I agree.

Look at The Lord of the Rings (the book, nopt the mmorpg), for instance. Most would agree on that it constitutes a pretty good example of how a good fantasy adventure could look like. It's mainly a long journey with Frodo and Sam leveling their asses off. While it does involve some help from high level characters and some addtitonal twinking (there's no way Frodo at that level should get that orc sword of pwnage), the 'end game' is a couple of seconds long when Frodo throughs the ring into the fire.

 

Interesting analogy but the trouble is what happens then? The whole concept of an MMO is that it techinally never ends - but if you define a scenario such as you have then you have commited to a result. Unfortunately there is some heavy-handed set backs that need to be looked at before the MMO can truley evolve and make new steps towards becoming a better genre.

I think if we saw more skill up oriented, instead of level oriented, games this could  reduce the problem. The thing with levels is they set a clear marker of where you stand in the pecking order. Nobody wants to be at the bottom so they try to power their way to cap. I don't think that a lot of people who play MMORPGs, along with  single player RPGs, apply a similar context to them; wh