I am aware that Warhammer has been in existence in one form or another since around 1983, and that people believe that Warcraft (starting with WC:  Orcs and Humans) borrowed heavily from aspects of Warhammer's style.

Can someone who is actually knowledgeable about what WH was like back then explain to me specifically what aspects of WH were incorporated into the WC universe?  Please be specific, don't just say "the art style" or something like that.

If you have pre-WC artwork you can reference, I'm interested in seeing what it looked like.

Thanks, I'm just curious.

 Sure thing

Warcraft: orcs vs humans was originally supposed to be Warhammer. But GW didnt' want to let go of the rights and or they couldn't come to agreement.. the game was mostly made already so they made thier own story.

here is a video of some artwork.. from before WARCRAFT...  

http://www.veoh.com/videos/v16127255QXbMkTf4

It's true, it's true.

Furthermore, WoW is derivative to some extent from every MMO that came before it.   Blizz just did it better than anyone had done before, in terms of playablity, accessability, functionality.

The results of being determined to put out a quality product speak for themselves.  WoW expanded the MMO audience.

Well gee....maybe we should post some Tolkien illustrations from his BOOKS that came before Warhammer and see if there are any comparisons or similarities THERE in the "world" or "characters" too?  I think we'd find a common "middle earth" theme running through pretty much EVERY fantasy MMO.

And guess what....before Tolkien....there were other fantasy writers too.

Here's a guarantee for you:

For every single creative idea that pops in to your head.  I guarantee that you are not the VERY first person to think of it, and you may even be able to actually find reference to who thought of it before you.  Go ahead try.  Think up something that you believe to be uniquely creative out of your own mind....now Google it.

Warhammer is not 100% original.  Virtually NOTHING is.  Most things, ideas, books, games, stories, can be traced back to SOMEwhere.

Warhammer is no less and no MORE a "copy" than what anyone else has ever done.  I imagine if you asked the developers of Warhammer what "inspired" them....they will be able to give you a nice list.

I'm so SICK of WAR fanbois and WoW fanbois, etc., etc., all claiming they were the "original creator" of this that and the other thing.  ALL of them have borrowed from all over literature and games.   The primary difference between any of these games is in their implementation of the ideas, not so much in their UNIQUENESS.

Oh yeah...both games are entirely unique, just like every other game.  Ironic much?

Originally posted by girlgeek

Well gee....maybe we should post some Tolkien illustrations from his BOOKS that came before Warhammer and see if there are any comparisons or similarities THERE in the "world" or "characters" too?  I think we'd find a common "middle earth" theme running through pretty much EVERY fantasy MMO.

And guess what....before Tolkien....there were other fantasy writers too.

Here's a guarantee for you:

For every single creative idea that pops in to your head.  I guarantee that you are not the VERY first person to think of it, and you may even be able to actually find reference to who thought of it before you.  Go ahead try.  Think up something that you believe to be uniquely creative out of your own mind....now Google it.

Warhammer is not 100% original.  Virtually NOTHING is.  Most things, ideas, books, games, stories, can be traced back to SOMEwhere.

Warhammer is no less and no MORE a "copy" than what anyone else has ever done.  I imagine if you asked the developers of Warhammer what "inspired" them....they will be able to give you a nice list.

I'm so SICK of WAR fanbois and WoW fanbois, etc., etc., all claiming they were the "original creator" of this that and the other thing.  ALL of them have borrowed from all over literature and games.   The primary difference between any of these games is in their implementation of the ideas, not so much in their UNIQUENESS.

Oh yeah...both games are entirely unique, just like every other game.  Ironic much?

I might have missed the part where anyone said anything about...whatever you're talking about.

The title to me, on my screen, reads:
"Warcraft Borrowed from the Warhammer Universe?"

If asking that question, the answer is: yes. No one here has yet to claim that the creators of Warhammer are the creators of the fantasy world. Comparing Warcraft to Warhammer, the similarities are much more similar than comparing Warhammer to Tolkien. I don't see where that even came from.

You're right, no idea is original these days. Everything's been done. Although, if we're comparing Middle Earth to Warhammer, the similarities are just as obvious as the differences. When comparing Warcraft to Warhammer, suddenly, it's not so easy. Every race in Warhammer has an almost artistically identical counterpart in Warcraft(High Elves/High Elves, Dark Elves/Blood Elves, Chaos/Forsaken/Undead, etc.)

People are comfortable with this level of fantasy, so I see little reason to have original ideas these days. Developers are not encouraged to take fantasy to a new level; they're encouraged to re-work old ideas.

Still, it's what sells. Same way for television. We all watch or have seen things like The Simpsons, Futurama, South Park, Family Guy, etc. Many episodes are ideas borrowed from shows that came before them. We can sit there and argue about who did what first, or we can sit down and have a laugh.

In short, if you do enough research into something, you'll find they're usually borrowing or were influenced by someone who came up with something before they did.

I've gotta say, I honestly don't see the resemblance between this artwork and the original Warcraf that isn't also present in LoTR and other stock fantasy (D&D).

I know there must be something specific?  Can anyone point to anything?

Originally posted by girlgeek

Well gee....maybe we should post some Tolkien illustrations from his BOOKS that came before Warhammer and see if there are any comparisons or similarities THERE in the "world" or "characters" too?  I think we'd find a common "middle earth" theme running through pretty much EVERY fantasy MMO.

And guess what....before Tolkien....there were other fantasy writers too.

Here's a guarantee for you:

For every single creative idea that pops in to your head.  I guarantee that you are not the VERY first person to think of it, and you may even be able to actually find reference to who thought of it before you.  Go ahead try.  Think up something that you believe to be uniquely creative out of your own mind....now Google it.

Warhammer is not 100% original.  Virtually NOTHING is.  Most things, ideas, books, games, stories, can be traced back to SOMEwhere.

Warhammer is no less and no MORE a "copy" than what anyone else has ever done.  I imagine if you asked the developers of Warhammer what "inspired" them....they will be able to give you a nice list.

I'm so SICK of WAR fanbois and WoW fanbois, etc., etc., all claiming they were the "original creator" of this that and the other thing.  ALL of them have borrowed from all over literature and games.   The primary difference between any of these games is in their implementation of the ideas, not so much in their UNIQUENESS.

Oh yeah...both games are entirely unique, just like every other game.  Ironic much?

Hey.. Games Workshop always said they took from the Tolkien universe.. they even admit it.

I know tht Lothlorien elves are high elves, and the Orcs of Mordor.. are Orcs.. 

While in tolkiens world.. orcs were like large dark creatures and very MAN like.. because MELKOR currupted elves to become orcs.. while in the WARHAMMER world.. they made them green and more Ape like.. .. so they did take liberties to make the ORCS GREEN and APE LIKE.. while Warcraft also used this same artistic SCHEME.

The only fantasy world that did NOT take from Tolkien in todays modern age.. is the world of CONAN. 

Robert E Howard Wrote conan BEFORE JRR Toklien wrote the Hobbit.

Hell, fantasy borrows from science fiction, too.

Anakin Skywalker = Arthas.

Originally posted by rikilii

I've gotta say, I honestly don't see the resemblance between this artwork and the original Warcraf that isn't also present in LoTR and other stock fantasy (D&D).

I know there must be something specific?  Can anyone point to anything?

WARHAMMER ORC: 

Warcraft Orc:

 Wow, you know, this is the first game that the in game graphics and art look very much like the concept art. I love it. 

Originally posted by Pangaea

Originally posted by rikilii

I've gotta say, I honestly don't see the resemblance between this artwork and the original Warcraf that isn't also present in LoTR and other stock fantasy (D&D).

I know there must be something specific?  Can anyone point to anything?

WARHAMMER ORC: 

 

Warcraft Orc:

 

That's a good one.  Keep 'em coming.

I was trying to figure out if that image of an Orc came earlier from another source, but I can't find anything.  The closest I can find is the picture in the AD&D monster manual, but that is more pig-like.

Originally posted by rikilii

Originally posted by Pangaea

Originally posted by rikilii

I've gotta say, I honestly don't see the resemblance between this artwork and the original Warcraf that isn't also present in LoTR and other stock fantasy (D&D).

I know there must be something specific?  Can anyone point to anything?

WARHAMMER ORC: 

 

Warcraft Orc:

 

 

That's a good one.  Keep 'em coming.

I was trying to figure out if that image of an Orc came earlier from another source, but I can't find anything.  The closest I can find is the picture in the AD&D monster manual, but that is more pig-like.

Yea.. Toklien orcs are very humanoid, dark skinned, currpted goblin looking creatures.. Mordor orcs and isengard ords both looked much different

D&D orcs originally looked hairy and beastman like with pig features.

Warhammer came up with some good GREENSKIN orcs that had HUGe lower fangs.. and ape like features.. overly done bulging muscles.. and long faces.....

it was the warhammer orc that warcraft chose to go off of.

I think what we have to remember more is that the art styles of fantasy are more of a 20th century creation and only very few highly renowned artists have been totally responsible for these images. Yes there are pre 20th century artists and classical painters that dwelved into demons and other creations of their imagination aswell but not until this last century have collections of images been able to be created from and inspired from so extensively. I think most of you could pick these modern day fantasy artists out if you heard their names and this is really were the visual copying comes from, artists are inspired by other artists and ideas.

Originally posted by NotArkard

Hell, fantasy borrows from science fiction, too.

 

Anakin Skywalker = Arthas.

That made me giggle. :)

There's also the warcraft drawf selling a warhammer for 40k........

So, anything other than the green tusky Orc?

The funny thing with GW's Orcs (in Warhammer or Warhammer 40k) are the Orcs themselves.

There's always been great humor associated with them.  On the tabletop, namely from my old days playing WH40k, there's a certain degree of chaotic, random, funny gameplay to them.

I got a Squig Herder (only at Lv7 ATM), and it's nice to see the Greenskin humor is in full force so far, just like in the publications.

As far as the Warhammer artwork goes, you can look it up.  Especially if you find old rulebooks and White Dwarf magazines.  The apperance has been quite "uniform" throughout the years, especially in regards to Orcs.

Originally posted by Newhopes

There's also the warcraft drawf selling a warhammer for 40k........

I haven't played a Warcraft game since Warcraft II.  But that's a hilarious homage

Originally posted by Warmaker

Originally posted by Newhopes

There's also the warcraft drawf selling a warhammer for 40k........

 

I haven't played a Warcraft game since Warcraft II.  But that's a hilarious homage

yeah, in warcraft 3, click on a Dwarf and he states:

"See this warhammer?  Cost me 40k"

Originally posted by Lonesamurai1

Originally posted by Warmaker

Originally posted by Newhopes

There's also the warcraft drawf selling a warhammer for 40k........

 

I haven't played a Warcraft game since Warcraft II.  But that's a hilarious homage

 

yeah, in warcraft 3, click on a Dwarf and he states:

 

"See this warhammer?  Cost me 40k"

So is everyone understanding that is an homage to Warhammer, not "copying?"  DOH.  Surely THIS isn't one of the things people are complaining about?  Blizzard does a LOT of things like that, just like the npcs "Hin Denburg" (the zepplin flightmaster), and "Haris Pilton" (who sells overpriced rings, sunglasses, etc.), and "Floyd Pinkus" the innkeeper.  I call it "Blizzard having a sense of humor." 

Originally posted by girlgeek

Originally posted by Lonesamurai1

Originally posted by Warmaker

Originally posted by Newhopes

There's also the warcraft drawf selling a warhammer for 40k........

 

I haven't played a Warcraft game since Warcraft II.  But that's a hilarious homage

 

yeah, in warcraft 3, click on a Dwarf and he states:

 

"See this warhammer?  Cost me 40k"

 

So is everyone understanding that is an homage to Warhammer, not "copying?"  DOH.  Surely THIS isn't one of the things people are complaining about?  Blizzard does a LOT of things like that, just like the npcs "Hin Denburg" (the zepplin flightmaster), and "Haris Pilton" (who sells overpriced rings, sunglasses, etc.), and "Floyd Pinkus" the innkeeper.  I call it "Blizzard having a sense of humor." 

 

yep, the point was that by Warcraft 3 they could pay homages to Warhammer in the game without reprisal...   many games and films do it now, hell, Warhammer and guild wars have loads of homagesto pop culture in them

Originally posted by Pangaea

 Sure thing

 

Warcraft: orcs vs humans was originally supposed to be Warhammer. But GW didnt' want to let go of the rights and or they couldn't come to agreement.. the game was mostly made already so they made thier own story.

 

here is a video of some artwork.. from before WARCRAFT...  

 

http://www.veoh.com/videos/v16127255QXbMkTf4

.. im not warhammer lore guy.. but i never heard such thing as warhammer books or anything like real lore.. it started from tabletop game ( never played it ) and was build upon it.. 

probably even wh 40k have more lore than original wh.. not even mention fact how much more fun is wh40k is..

Originally posted by Smikis

Originally posted by Pangaea

 Sure thing

 

Warcraft: orcs vs humans was originally supposed to be Warhammer. But GW didnt' want to let go of the rights and or they couldn't come to agreement.. the game was mostly made already so they made thier own story.

 

here is a video of some artwork.. from before WARCRAFT...  

 

http://www.veoh.com/videos/v16127255QXbMkTf4

 

 

.. im not warhammer lore guy.. but i never heard such thing as warhammer books or anything like real lore.. it started from tabletop game ( never played it ) and was build upon it.. 

 

probably even wh 40k have more lore than original wh.. not even mention fact how much more fun is wh40k is..

Games Workshop has had novels released for its Warhammer titles.  The publisher is the "Black Library."  The 2 major eras that the novels cover are the Warhammer (fantasy) and Warhammer 40K (very dark, bleak future).  Like any series of novels for a franchise, they range in quality.  Some good, some bad.

I'm not sure if WH40k has more "lore" than WH itself, since WH has been around longer and Games Workshop regularly puts out short stories and all that for both of them.

Random gouge:  Warhammer aficionados refer to the "lore " or "canon" of the 2 franchises as "fluff."  Especially in WH40K.

As far as which is more fun of the 2 tabletop games, that's debatable, but I do think the fantasy based WH is more popular.  I could be wrong though, since the last time I played WH40k tabletop was in the 90s lol