Am I the only one who see this as a possitive ending for MMORPGs?

With Blizzard owning these bot creators, people will think twice now before trying to create cheating tools, hopefuly it will apply to more games.

Well, the one thing we have learned for sure is: Botting benefits lawyers.

"Good for Blizzard.
At least they decided to take care of the bot problem.
Maybe people will actually pay more attention to the EULA now."
 

hahahahahahahahahahhahahahaha

Good idea - but I *HIGHLY* doubt it. How long did this law suit take? couple YEARS? yeah... cheaters aren't even going to BLINK about this and they're going to go about thier business.

Originally posted by romne

Stay on topic my friend...I am talking about WoW botting only..not some lame game like FF XI ,  And yes botting does help the average player in WoW even if they do not bot themselves.  See all those  primals and leathers on the auction house at nice cheap rates due to extreme compettion and large amount of supply?  Well thats because of botters.   Get rid of them and all you have are the the people who watch the auction house for a living just waiting to buyout all of an item so they can resell it for 10 times the price.  You yourself have benefitted from bots if you have EVER bought anything off the AH though you may not realize it.  Furthermore, name one instance where a botter farming mobs caused any such problem in WoW like you mentiond in FF XI? You can't...because WoW isn't setup that way and botters don't care about quest mobs!  Hell most of them don't even quest they just grind, mostly in out of the way areas to stay away from rabid anti-botters such as you who just don;t get it....so again you are wrong.  Like I said before no mater what you say...as far as the player base goes I know MANY players who have bought 10,000 gold to get their elite flying mount but still pretend to hate botters when speaking with their fellow players...knowing damn well their buds did it too.  LOL   In the end for those who don't do it you have benefitted from it whether you know it or not....like paying 15 gold for a primal or some other pain in the ass item you have to farm?  Well get rid of the bots and get ready to pay 50 gold per primal or leather or whatever.  Making items cheaper on the AH BENEFITS the player base...it means you dont have to go farm it and you get it cheap!  Thats not harmful thats good for you but bad for Blizzard.  So, once again, it comes down to the self righteousness of waa waaa I played fair and my ego is hurt that this other guy did it so much easier and smarter then me.  Do not confuse what benefits Blizzard with what benefits the game player..they are two totally different things and if you can't see that then you have poor analytical skills.

You sir, win the idiot of the thread award
 

I am not one for the big posts and I really do not care who I piss off at any time of the day and I definatly do not want to be sleeping with Blizzard as no matter the fact they are still just a big gaming company and in the long haul really don't show much compassion for the small player or solo enthusiast, BUT, In all my years of gaming I have finally lived to see the day when a gaming company stood up and took the fight to the source and for once didint put full blame on the players that use the software they went to the actual person who was selling it and took it out on them.

Too bad the other gaming companies didin't do the same over the years, might have caused more of the legit players to have stayed playing and not get ran over by new players decked out in gear and items some people worked hard and felt acomplished to get.

good luck collecting $6 million. let alone a few thousand if that.

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Originally posted by romne
You guys dont get it.  The only way botting hurts other players is that it hurts their egos that they were dumb enough to hand level their toons to 70 when they could have been smart and had a program do it for them..in other words it just hurts their egos. 
 in every other fashion botters HELP the gamer player.  Take note the emphasis on game player and not Blizzard.Botters help you get all forms of materials at the acution house for MUCH cheaper rates.. if alot of botters go missing over this be prepared to pay alot more for those items and I do mean alot more.  Need some outrageous ridiculous amount of gold for a flying mount in the upcoming WOTLK?  Whats more valuable to you...your time or a few dollars to buy some gold and just buy the damn thing rather then spend countless mindless hours getting it yourself? You tell me.  Anyone who thinks getting carpal tunnel while grinding out 10,000 gold for a flying mount has mental issues. 
The botter helps you skip past the dull boring parts of the game and get to the meat and potatoes of it...ie the fun part for those of you feeling righteous while you grind out your gold lol.  I hope this does get rid of alot of bots on a long term basis...then you guys will see just how much easier they have made your gaming lives in WoW.   Blizzard sells it like they are helping you by getting rid of botters but the truth of it is they are simply helping themselves...the longer it takes you to get through the game content, without the assistance of botters, the more money they make.  Pure, simple truth.  Now, are you going to take the blue pill or the red pill?

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This is the truth. In the end all they have done is make it harder for the casual gamer to get decent items at the auctions. Botters for the most part just bot, they grind tons of mobs to get tons of stuff which they sell on the market to make gold which they sell for real money. In no way, besides their annoying spamming, which I agree needs to be dealt with, do they harm the players themselves. This is just Blizzard being greedy and saying that no one but them can make money off of their game. That's fine and dandy, and even understandable from a corporate point of view, but it's in no way Blizzard doing something for the players, it's quite the opposite.

Great victory for the gaming community.

Way to go, Blizzard!!

not a huge fan of WoW but this deserves a hefty

   Nice to see people who try to make money off of others success go down hard.

Thumbs up for Blizzard,even if they can't collect the $6 millions they have ruined the guy and I believe that Mythic too will have no mercy for those parasites.

Originally posted by romne

You guys dont get it.  The only way botting hurts other players is that it hurts their egos that they were dumb enough to hand level their toons to 70 when they could have been smart and had a program do it for them..in other words it just hurts their egos. 

 in every other fashion botters HELP the gamer player.  Take note the emphasis on game player and not Blizzard.Botters help you get all forms of materials at the acution house for MUCH cheaper rates.. if alot of botters go missing over this be prepared to pay alot more for those items and I do mean alot more.  Need some outrageous ridiculous amount of gold for a flying mount in the upcoming WOTLK?  Whats more valuable to you...your time or a few dollars to buy some gold and just buy the damn thing rather then spend countless mindless hours getting it yourself? You tell me.  Anyone who thinks getting carpal tunnel while grinding out 10,000 gold for a flying mount has mental issues. 

The botter helps you skip past the dull boring parts of the game and get to the meat and potatoes of it...ie the fun part for those of you feeling righteous while you grind out your gold lol.  I hope this does get rid of alot of bots on a long term basis...then you guys will see just how much easier they have made your gaming lives in WoW.   Blizzard sells it like they are helping you by getting rid of botters but the truth of it is they are simply helping themselves...the longer it takes you to get through the game content, without the assistance of botters, the more money they make.  Pure, simple truth.  Now, are you going to take the blue pill or the red pill?

This is VERY close to being the most idiotic post I have ever seen on a gaming forum.

WHY...please explain this to me...WHY do you buy a game for entertainment and then have someone or someTHING else play it FOR you?

People who feel a "need" to bot their way through MMORPGs, need to find a different genre of game to play, IF they even enjoy playing games at ALL.

If you just want to "play the end game," then play Warhammer....the other MMOs are NOT going to miss your lazy a$$.  (On the other hand...I DARE you to go get a bot to do your RvR in WAR.  Mythic will clamp down on you so fast, your stupid little head will spin.)

If you think questing is grinding, you should try to find something else to do with your spare time.  Grats to Blizzard.

Originally posted by Suplyndmnd

Am I the only one that sees Blizzard lost in this case.  What they have done is put a value on virtual properties.  Wether their arguements were that it was used to make gold or farm items they have no bridged the gap between real world and virtual.

Now, why is this a bad thing?  Because now if they mess up and say, delete your account or ban your account and they cant prove you violated the EULA then you can now sue them for money in court.  All because they have put a monitary real world value on a virtual place.  Is this really going to stop the distribution of this program?  Doubtful.  If you can write a good enough program then you can make the money to afford the legal issues that come along with it.  More so now, if the ruling means the company can no longer distribute the program all they have to do now is make it so widely available that it gets into everyone's hands.

I just think that stopping people from botting is a much better course of action.  Also, sticking a GM in towns to catch the never ending flood of gold sellers spamming the trade chats can curtail this as well.  Final Fantasy XI has made great strides in combating RMT's and I think that WoW/Blizzard and others could take a page on combatting this evil demon from them.

The arguments and judgment left the value of the goods in the game un-addressed. As it should have. In fact, MDY’s case even states that the tool is only meant as a means to advance to 70 more easily and quickly, and that it discourages customers of the tool to use it as a gold-farming device. Blizzard’s stance did not reference the cash value of anything within the game system. It referenced only the imbalance of play experience when Glider is introduced into the equation for some players. Their arguments stated that the presence of Glider impeded Blizzard’s ability to balance that gameplay experience equally among all paying gamers, and that it provided a means for Glider users to absorb an unintended and unfair amount of game resources (both material and system resources). It further argued that there are lasting negative impacts in-game for the use of bot programs if left unchecked, not the least of which being the destabilization of the in-game economy.

The position of Blizzard was largely that MDY infringed on their copyright. Blizzard’s position was argued using the Copyright Act, and the DMCA. By order of the Ninth Circuit Court, copying a program to RAM constitutes a copyright infringement because you are making an unauthorized copy of the game. This is one of the biggest building blocks of the Blizzard case.

The judgment of the court also decided that MDY had knowingly violated the End User License Agreement and the Terms of Use they agreed to upon starting the game. This is a HUGE win for game makers globally that cannot be understated. This is another case where the EULA and TOU have been upheld in a court of law, making them even more defensible in the future. The grey area that bot farmers and gold sellers have treaded for a decade is getting quite a bit less grey, and that benefits anyone that would see these parasites hanged.

There were argument about a Misuse of Copyright by Blizzard, and that Blizzard did not have a right to prevent a third party from developing software related to wow (monopoly). That argument by MDY only holds water if the software is non-infringing, and the court found glider to be clearly an infringement. And even so, the court found that Blizzard is making no efforts to prevent someone else from producing a competing game in which whatever tools anyone wished to produced were within rights of the users according to the TOU and EULA. So no monopoly could be established.

Furthermore the court found that MDY took measures to avoid detection and aided their customers in doing the same. The court found it to be a clear violation for MDY to agree to terms of use, and then deliberately break those terms of use using any means they could, -and- provide those means to other people. The court also commented that this was not a case of altruistic individuals attempting to circumvent the processes for 'fun', but quite clearly that the circumvention was to continue to make money on the copyrighted intellectual property of another entity.

There are seven factors that are weighed in determining impropriety in a summary judgment. The court found in favor of Blizzard in all seven factors. And none of them had anything to do with the real-world value of in-game goods.

 This is not a secondary market case. Period.
 

Originally posted by xaldraxius

 

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Originally posted by romne
You guys dont get it.  The only way botting hurts other players is that it hurts their egos that they were dumb enough to hand level their toons to 70 when they could have been smart and had a program do it for them..in other words it just hurts their egos. 
 in every other fashion botters HELP the gamer player.  Take note the emphasis on game player and not Blizzard.Botters help you get all forms of materials at the acution house for MUCH cheaper rates.. if alot of botters go missing over this be prepared to pay alot more for those items and I do mean alot more.  Need some outrageous ridiculous amount of gold for a flying mount in the upcoming WOTLK?  Whats more valuable to you...your time or a few dollars to buy some gold and just buy the damn thing rather then spend countless mindless hours getting it yourself? You tell me.  Anyone who thinks getting carpal tunnel while grinding out 10,000 gold for a flying mount has mental issues. 
The botter helps you skip past the dull boring parts of the game and get to the meat and potatoes of it...ie the fun part for those of you feeling righteous while you grind out your gold lol.  I hope this does get rid of alot of bots on a long term basis...then you guys will see just how much easier they have made your gaming lives in WoW.   Blizzard sells it like they are helping you by getting rid of botters but the truth of it is they are simply helping themselves...the longer it takes you to get through the game content, without the assistance of botters, the more money they make.  Pure, simple truth.  Now, are you going to take the blue pill or the red pill?

---

 

This is the truth. In the end all they have done is make it harder for the casual gamer to get decent items at the auctions. Botters for the most part just bot, they grind tons of mobs to get tons of stuff which they sell on the market to make gold which they sell for real money. In no way, besides their annoying spamming, which I agree needs to be dealt with, do they harm the players themselves. This is just Blizzard being greedy and saying that no one but them can make money off of their game. That's fine and dandy, and even understandable from a corporate point of view, but it's in no way Blizzard doing something for the players, it's quite the opposite.

False. The two of you really don't understand the situation, or you're grasping at straws trying to justify knowingly cheating.

The whole purpose in paying to play a game is to enjoy the journey and the challenge. There are millions of players who don't have such fragile ego's that they feel as though they suck or have failed if they don't have gear or levels as good as anyone else who plays. There are millions who dont even belong to guilds, rarely or never raid, and actually -read- the quests to enjoy the story behind them. These people could care less if you have 10 level 70 characters in full epics and never will. These people play the game, get the levels and gear and gold as they come, and are perfectly satisfied when they complete their personal goals without regard to how many other goals you've completed for yourself. The only impact you have on their gameplay at all, is when they are attempting to do quests or gather tradeskill components for their own use or for sale in the auction house with legitimate means, and they cant because there are botters monopolizing content.

And the cost of the goods in the AH works both ways. Anyone who actually understood supply and demand would know that...

Yes, the cost of the goods in the AH are lower because the botters introduce so much of it into the economy. Yes, that means that more casual legitimate players can more easily purchase those goods in the AH. But it also means that when a legitimate player earns those goods as they were intended to be earned in the game, they can't sell them for anywhere close to what they otherwise could because the botters have already flooded the market. The botters have -artificially- imbalanced the laws of supply and demand and a direct result is an imbalance in the in-game economy. So instead of selling stacks of ore, or leather, or potions, or pieces of gear for high prices in order to pay some of the high prices from merchants for things like epic flying mounts, those legitimate players are now farming for -much- longer to earn the same money. Do you think they feel as though they have been helped?

Clearly the answer is no. But nice try geniuses.

Like it or not, the EULA is an agreement between the company who made the game and those who play.  Laws are put into place to ensure there are no violations of the agreement between parties.  Although I'm grateful to Blizzard for bringing up the case, I'm more grateful for the court enforcing the law.

"IF YOU DO NOT AGREE WITH ALL OF THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT, YOU MUST CLICK "REJECT."

The Game includes two components: (a) the software program along with any accompanying materials or documentation (collectively, the "Program"), and (b) Blizzard’s proprietary World of Warcraft online service (the "Service").

"Ownership.
All rights and title in and to the Program and the Service (including without limitation any user accounts, titles, computer code, themes, objects, characters, character names, stories, dialogue, catch phrases, locations, concepts, artwork, animations, sounds, musical compositions, audio-visual effects, methods of operation, moral rights, any related documentation, "applets" incorporated into the Program, transcripts of the chat rooms, character profile information, recordings of games played on the Program, and the Program client and server software) are owned by Blizzard or its licensors. The Program and the Service are protected by United States and international laws. The Program and the Service may contain certain licensed materials, and Blizzard's licensors may enforce their rights in the event of any violation of this Agreement."

"You agree that you will not (i) modify or cause to be modified any files that are a part of the Program or the Service; (ii) create or use cheats, bots, "mods", and/or hacks, or any other third-party software designed to modify the World of Warcraft experience; "

I HEREBY ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I HAVE READ AND UNDERSTAND THE FOREGOING TERMS OF USE AGREEMENT AND AGREE THAT MY USE OF THE PROGRAM AND/OR THE SERVICE IS AN ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF MY AGREEMENT TO BE BOUND BY THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS TERMS OF USE AGREEMENT.

Copyright 2006 Blizzard Entertainment, Inc. All rights reserved." http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/legal/termsofuse.html 
 

I honestly don't know what's unclear about the above quotes.

While I think this was the right decision based on current law, I am concerned about the precident for the future.  The fact that Blizzard was able to get another judge to support their copyright in regards to RAM is disturbing.  Anyhow, upholding a EULA in court is going to become a bad thing for gamers in my opinion.  Essentially, if enough EULAs get upheld, they are going to get to the point where "game may change during the course of gameplay" means that a producer / developer can do anything to a game without your having any recourse whatsoever.  Just drop over to the SWG Vets forum and see what I mean.

Originally posted by romne

You guys dont get it.  The only way botting hurts other players is that it hurts their egos that they were dumb enough to hand level their toons to 70 when they could have been smart and had a program do it for them..in other words it just hurts their egos. 

-Then why stop there smart guy?  Why not just let the program play your character past level 70 right on through the raids, dungeons and pvp?  Where does it stop?  I just cannot agree with the concept of paying money for someone or something else to play a game for you is somehow smart.  The concept of actually PLAYING is gone. 

 

 in every other fashion botters HELP the gamer player.  Take note the emphasis on game player and not Blizzard.Botters help you get all forms of materials at the acution house for MUCH cheaper rates.. if alot of botters go missing over this be prepared to pay alot more for those items and I do mean alot more.  Need some outrageous ridiculous amount of gold for a flying mount in the upcoming WOTLK?  Whats more valuable to you...your time or a few dollars to buy some gold and just buy the damn thing rather then spend countless mindless hours getting it yourself? You tell me.  Anyone who thinks getting carpal tunnel while grinding out 10,000 gold for a flying mount has mental issues. 

-Botters are not some sort of community service.  They take up character slots on a server.  Have you ever had to wait in a que?  Wait for a arena match to open?  See a money spot camped?  You can thank the botters for helping congest that. 

Beyond that the reason items are so expesensive currently is because the botters are flooding the market with gold.  Yes read that again!  The botters are driving prices up.  When you, the average player, complete a quest or anything where the game awards you money, lets say 1 gold, it is worth less.  Why?  Because botters are pumping out more cash than you can.  Your 1 gold will buy you less, because the botters are pouring money into the market.  Think about that for a minute before you go off praising the cheaters. 

Also lets not pretend that your real life money didn't take time to earn.  Really your whole concept is that it is better to slog through hours of real life work to then buy gold than it is to sit down and play a video game.  That is the most idiotic concept ever.   

The botter helps you skip past the dull boring parts of the game and get to the meat and potatoes of it...ie the fun part for those of you feeling righteous while you grind out your gold lol.  I hope this does get rid of alot of bots on a long term basis...then you guys will see just how much easier they have made your gaming lives in WoW.   Blizzard sells it like they are helping you by getting rid of botters but the truth of it is they are simply helping themselves...the longer it takes you to get through the game content, without the assistance of botters, the more money they make.  Pure, simple truth.  Now, are you going to take the blue pill or the red pill?

-If you don't like levels 1-69, then perhaps MMOs are not for you.  Go play something else.

Trust me, you will do just fine without the botters.  In fact you will do even better.  Not that I subscribe to your mentality that you "need" all these things to play a game.  Honestly, you will get by just fine without them.

Originally posted by daeandor

While I think this was the right decision based on current law, I am concerned about the precident for the future.  The fact that Blizzard was able to get another judge to support their copyright in regards to RAM is disturbing.  Anyhow, upholding a EULA in court is going to become a bad thing for gamers in my opinion.  Essentially, if enough EULAs get upheld, they are going to get to the point where "game may change during the course of gameplay" means that a producer / developer can do anything to a game without your having any recourse whatsoever.  Just drop over to the SWG Vets forum and see what I mean.

This isn't a case of a game company using the EULA to justify doing whatever they wany.  This is a case of a company using the EULA to protect their product from 3rd party actions that do have a negative impact not only on the players of the game, but the companies resources to operate the game.

I understand your fear, but I don't think it is anywhere close to what you are making it out to be.

Originally posted by daeandor

While I think this was the right decision based on current law, I am concerned about the precident for the future.  The fact that Blizzard was able to get another judge to support their copyright in regards to RAM is disturbing.  Anyhow, upholding a EULA in court is going to become a bad thing for gamers in my opinion.  Essentially, if enough EULAs get upheld, they are going to get to the point where "game may change during the course of gameplay" means that a producer / developer can do anything to a game without your having any recourse whatsoever.  Just drop over to the SWG Vets forum and see what I mean.

This is an unrealistic view of a pretty simple situation.

The EULA is first and foremost a contractual agreement between parties. If you don't like the terms outlined within it, dont sign it.

As for the hysteria, a contract cannot be enforced d by any court if it is found to violate your rights. You cannot sign away your rights in any contract, no matter how stupid you are in signing the contract without reading it. The contract, or more specifically the parts of the contract that are found to voilate your rights, become void.

So if the big mean computer game company is really out to screw you, they're going ot have to be more creative than to outline their intent in the EULA for you ...