Originally posted by greymann

Originally posted by LeKinK

Originally posted by Roguewiz

WoW is about as threatened by WAR taking over the #1 slot, as the US is threatened by the fact that France might attack us.

See the irony?  Neither will ever happen.  I like WAR, I'm playing in Kislev.  However, the game is a niche market.  It'll be the #2 MMO, but it will never beat WoW.  Too many fanboys.  Not to mention the fact that WoW has a BIG lead.

 

I don't see why the french could not attack the US, after all, a bunch of cave dwellers did it on 9/11.  They just have to do it undercover..

 

Heh, yeah cave dwellers with millions of dollars.  Besides it was an inside job.  The french?  You mean those people whose asses we saved twice now?  They don't have balls as big as the cave dwellers.

lol,  but yea,  you think france is a poor country?  They could work it from the inside as well with more freedom.   They have the same amount of hair tho.

 No MMO has ever been killed by another. Let alone WoW

Blizzard will constantly be nerfing 'old' content because they want as many players as possible to be ready to buy Wraith on November 13th.

On October 14, they are also reducing the exp needed to go from 60-70 by about 30%.   Again, this isn't because of Warhammer, it's because they want players to be at 70 and ready for Wrath.

WOW has nothing to worry about from Warhammer.  Warhammer box sales have dropped to #30 already, and Xfire is showing a DECREASE in players.  This Wednesday had 15% less players than last Wednesday.  And read these forums, there are a lot of us that won't be logging in once our free time is over.

Originally posted by Azrile

Blizzard will constantly be nerfing 'old' content because they want as many players as possible to be ready to buy Wraith on November 13th.

On October 14, they are also reducing the exp needed to go from 60-70 by about 30%.   Again, this isn't because of Warhammer, it's because they want players to be at 70 and ready for Wrath.

WOW has nothing to worry about from Warhammer.  Warhammer box sales have dropped to #30 already, and Xfire is showing a DECREASE in players.  This Wednesday had 15% less players than last Wednesday.  And read these forums, there are a lot of us that won't be logging in once our free time is over.

You really can't use XFire as a means to measure how good/bad a game is doing. It's been some time since I used it, but if I remember right; it only tracks Xfire users playing the game. Thus, if 10k people are using XFire and playing WAR and 5k quit playing, that isn't justification to say a game is doing bad.  They could have disabled all non-essential system processes.

 

Originally posted by Roguewiz

WoW is about as threatened by WAR taking over the #1 slot, as the US is threatened by the fact that France might attack us.

See the irony?  Neither will ever happen.  I like WAR, I'm playing in Kislev.  However, the game is a niche market.  It'll be the #2 MMO, but it will never beat WoW.  Too many fanboys.  Not to mention the fact that WoW has a BIG lead.

Well....I'm not crazy about how this thread has spiraled in to an unsavory political debate because of this post (it probably wasn't the best analogy to use), BUT....I do agree with the "niche market" comment.

Let me use a different (hopefully less volatile) analogy.

Tori Amos, the singer/songwriter/musician, has a CULT following.  She is extremely successful, by any industry standards, and I, personally, love her music.  However....it is unlikely that oh, say.....Mariah Carey fans....are going to go flocking to see Tori Amos in concert.  Both singer/songwriters, both very talented....TWO ENTIRELY DIFFERENT STYLES.

Now why can people understand something simple like THAT, and yet the whole game style thing eludes them?  I don't get it.

Warhammer is, indeed, directed at a niche market (much like Tori Amos, in comparison).  Mariah Carey fans (read WoW fans) would not ENJOY Tori's music, very likely, and would probably feel very uncomfortable with the people that would be at her concerts.  It's NOT their "style."  Capiche?  Very simple.

Does it mean WAR won't be successful?  Uhm....lol....noooo!  Does it mean WoW is going to come crashing to the ground, losing every fan they have, rendering them a flop?  Ermhmm.....uhh, little late for that, I think.  It's already an established success and an AWFULLY lot of people love it.

I don't think Blizzard is quivering in their boots.  However, I do believe they are ALERT and that it will be good for ALL GAMERS to have some healthy competition in the market that keeps the devs on their toes and constantly trying to improve our games.  WE....the gamers....are the ultimate winners.

Originally posted by Roguewiz

Originally posted by Azrile

Blizzard will constantly be nerfing 'old' content because they want as many players as possible to be ready to buy Wraith on November 13th.

On October 14, they are also reducing the exp needed to go from 60-70 by about 30%.   Again, this isn't because of Warhammer, it's because they want players to be at 70 and ready for Wrath.

WOW has nothing to worry about from Warhammer.  Warhammer box sales have dropped to #30 already, and Xfire is showing a DECREASE in players.  This Wednesday had 15% less players than last Wednesday.  And read these forums, there are a lot of us that won't be logging in once our free time is over.

You really can't use XFire as a means to measure how good/bad a game is doing. It's been some time since I used it, but if I remember right; it only tracks Xfire users playing the game. Thus, if 10k people are using XFire and playing WAR and 5k quit playing, that isn't justification to say a game is doing bad.

 

Actually it tracks almost 5% of players, which is a pretty big sample size to draw conclusions from.  There are 12k players using Xfire out of the roughly 500k total players.  Compare that to Gallop polling who polls 1k voters to 'guess' the voting habits of 200 million voters.   Also Xfire almost always shows proportionality when used to estimate a games subscribers.  You could use Xfire to see that Warhammer has about 500k subscribers (before they put out their press release) by comparing it's numbers to AOC back on June 30th when they announced 415k subscribers.. and both games show proportionality when compared to WOW's 5M NA/EU players.  Every time a company releases numbers, Xfire is shown to be fairly accurate.

Originally posted by Azrile

Originally posted by Roguewiz

Originally posted by Azrile

Blizzard will constantly be nerfing 'old' content because they want as many players as possible to be ready to buy Wraith on November 13th.

On October 14, they are also reducing the exp needed to go from 60-70 by about 30%.   Again, this isn't because of Warhammer, it's because they want players to be at 70 and ready for Wrath.

WOW has nothing to worry about from Warhammer.  Warhammer box sales have dropped to #30 already, and Xfire is showing a DECREASE in players.  This Wednesday had 15% less players than last Wednesday.  And read these forums, there are a lot of us that won't be logging in once our free time is over.

You really can't use XFire as a means to measure how good/bad a game is doing. It's been some time since I used it, but if I remember right; it only tracks Xfire users playing the game. Thus, if 10k people are using XFire and playing WAR and 5k quit playing, that isn't justification to say a game is doing bad.

 

 

Actually it tracks almost 5% of players, which is a pretty big sample size to draw conclusions from.  There are 12k players using Xfire out of the roughly 500k total players.  Compare that to Gallop polling who polls 1k voters to 'guess' the voting habits of 200 million voters.   Also Xfire almost always shows proportionality when used to estimate a games subscribers.  You could use Xfire to see that Warhammer has about 500k subscribers (before they put out their press release) by comparing it's numbers to AOC back on June 30th when they announced 415k subscribers.. and both games show proportionality when compared to WOW's 5M NA/EU players.  Every time a company releases numbers, Xfire is shown to be fairly accurate.

Hmm, that must be new, or my memory isn't as good as it used to be.  Either way, it is good to know that it is sitting at around 500kish subscribers.  I guess we'll see how good/bad the game is doing once the free month is over.  I'll more than likely still be playing.  I just have no desire to return to that crap PvP system that WoW has.
 

Originally posted by Roguewiz

See the irony?  Neither will ever happen.  I like WAR, I'm playing in Kislev.  However, the game is a niche market.  It'll be the #2 MMO, but it will never beat WoW.  Too many fanboys.  Not to mention the fact that WoW has a BIG lead.

I agree though I would ask at what point is a game no longer just a 'niche' market?  

I think maybe one million consistent customers (internationally, not just concentrated in one country) would be a decent level for a MMORPG to get out of the 'niche' label.    We'll have to see if WAR will be able to attain and maintain those numbers three months from now.  

If it does that I would think WAR would no longer be a niche game, but just another mainstream video/computer game that happens to be a MMORPG.

WoW being scared to WAR is like Biden being scared of Palin. :x

Originally posted by sgel

scared? of what?

lol... will you guys every stop imagining bullshit like this?
 

Wow is not threatened by anything... let alone WAR....

war is just another mmo which will have a few hundread thousand players playing... just like lotro and aoc.... that's it...

get used to it...

true WoW is afriad nad its kinda funny how ppl make these anit wow posts. on the other hand WAR will net well over 1mil users but no where near the numbers that warcraft has.

Originally posted by Alienovrlord

Originally posted by Roguewiz

See the irony?  Neither will ever happen.  I like WAR, I'm playing in Kislev.  However, the game is a niche market.  It'll be the #2 MMO, but it will never beat WoW.  Too many fanboys.  Not to mention the fact that WoW has a BIG lead.

 

I agree though I would ask at what point is a game no longer just a 'niche' market?  

I think maybe one million consistent customers (internationally, not just concentrated in one country) would be a decent level for a MMORPG to get out of the 'niche' label.    We'll have to see if WAR will be able to attain and maintain those numbers three months from now.  

If it does that I would think WAR would no longer be a niche game, but just another mainstream video/computer game that happens to be a MMORPG.

That is a good question, and a difficult one at that.  The thing is: Warhammer in essence is a PvP/RvR game.  It has some PvE elements, but in the end; you kill other players and further your side.  World of Warcraft is a PvE game.  PvP was an afterthought that they have built on.  You can get by in WoW without ever having to PvP.  Warhammer is different.  While you can realistically never enter a senario or participate in RvR, that isn't the essence of the game and you (as a player) will probably get bored real fast.
 

If a game can maintain enough PvE content to keep avid raiders happy and have a PvP system that is structured and fun, I believe then; the game would no longer be a niche market.

Before people say "WoW has that", I will argue that while their PvE is insanely good; the PvP the game has is lacking.

Bliz is just smart.  They realise with new level caps and content, new players need to level past the old content faster to see the new stuff.  Doubt it has anything to do with WAR.

The problem with the continued addition of level caps is the increased alienation of newer players due to the long time to see end game content.

Originally posted by Roguewiz

 If a game can maintain enough PvE content to keep avid raiders happy and have a PvP system that is structured and fun, I believe then; the game would no longer be a niche market.

So are you are not defining  'niche' based on the numbers of subscribers, but rather how appealing the content is?   I think that's a subjective opinion that could vary widely.   Afterall, PvP-players who don't like WoW's PvP could argue that WoW is a niche game because of it's emphasis on PvE raiding/Instance Dungeons with a tacked on PvP.   

I think that if a game is appealing enough to attract more than a million players then it clearly is doing something entertaining for a wide audience.    At that point the game should not long be considered a niche game, but a mainstream game even it emphasized only one thing like Stragtegy (Civlization), Hack and Slash (Diablo) or PvP (Team Fortress 2).   

Plus the quality of content is based on opinions which are impossible to argue.   Simple numbers are much more straightforward :)

First off I know for a fact that I am getting WAR for christmas as will alot of my friends. And as for people going to the store and deciding wether to get WAR or WoW I am pretty sure most will try WAR and start playing that. For one reason WAR is a new and upcoming game that they can start playing and not feel like a complete noob. Unlike WoW which has been out forever and has a big fan group as well as a big hate group. On the other hand there isn't hardly any hate groups for WAR since it is pretty new right now. Plus I am pretty sure it would be cheaper to buy WAR then go and buy WoW with all it's expansions.

Originally posted by Alienovrlord

Originally posted by Roguewiz

 If a game can maintain enough PvE content to keep avid raiders happy and have a PvP system that is structured and fun, I believe then; the game would no longer be a niche market.

 

So are you are not defining  'niche' based on the numbers of subscribers, but rather how appealing the content is?   I think that's a subjective opinion that could vary widely.   Afterall, PvP-players who don't like WoW's PvP could argue that WoW is a niche game because of it's emphasis on PvE raiding/Instance Dungeons with a tacked on PvP.   

I think that if a game is appealing enough to attract more than a million players then it clearly is doing something entertaining for a wide audience.    At that point the game should not long be considered a niche game, but a mainstream game even it emphasized only one thing like Stragtegy (Civlization), Hack and Slash (Diablo) or PvP (Team Fortress 2).   

Plus the quality of content is based on opinions which are impossible to argue.   Simple numbers are much more straightforward :)

 

I'm not necessarily defiing niche as "how appealing the content is", but more along the lines one what type of content it is.  Warcraft and Warhammer are totally diffent types of games.  One focuses primarily on PvE, the other on PvP.  My point is, it isn't necessarily fair to compare a RvR/PvP game to a PvE game.  So while you can consider PvE a "niche market" from a PvPers standpoint, don't forget the fact that on the US Market; PvE has a wider appeal than PvP.

In regards to your examples of types of games, I believe you have that a little off.  PvP is player vs. player for a reason.  This isn't necessarily killing each other.  It is competition.  It can be anything from aquiring the most points, the most kills, largest army, or just plain old fragging the crap out of them  In your examples, you have:

• A Strategy Game:  This appeals to me.  I enjoy thinking multiple moves ahead.  I enjoy matching wits with other players.  This is probably why I love Chess.
• A Hack-n-Slash Game:  These typically bore me rather fast.
• A FPS Game:  I despise these kind of games.  I can tolerate them for a little while, but afterwards; I'd rather play a sports game.

Either way, the success of Warhammer weighs heavily on how good/fun the end game RvR is.  If WAR can maintain 500k-1mil subscribers, the game can be considered sucessful.  Not in WAR vs. WoW terms, but in "We spent this much $$$, and are making this much $$" terms.

fuck ;p useless threat again
VIVA MMORPG.COM

the forum like mmosite ;p lead for kid made by kid ( who a lead website ? communoty)

As someone already said, the truth is much more simple.

A new expansion is due in a month, and since it is a lvl 70-80 expansion only, Blizzard wants to facilitate leveling to people so they hit lvl 70 fast, which means they will buy the Lich King ( which means they gonna sell more copies)
It is just a clever way to maximise the sales..........

WAR will be lucky to settle for 250K subscribers, don't go imagine weird things.
At the moment there is nothing out there that can dent WoW dominance...........unfortunately.

I, for one, hope that WoW isn't killed by WAR.  I like WAR.  I like the mature community.  I like that its something different.  I like that mythic listens.  I like that the game is familiar, yet different. 

Most of all, I like that I now have choice.  Blizz is too stron to die. but, we (the mmo gaming community) has needed a real alternative for sometime, and, it appears we finally have it.

Kudos to mythic, but, GL to blizz as well.... you just won't be seeing my money anylonger.

Originally posted by valkerus

In the response to not nerfing Naxx and AQ 40 with BC that's pretty simple why they didn't. BC greens made naxx epics look like childs play stat wise. 60 tanks had 3k hp's. 61 tanks had 6k hp's. No need to nerf bosses if you buff the player base.

I agree also that i hope WAR has great numbers to force WoW to be more innovative. There is never anything wrong with competition.  I actually subscribe to both games. I am more of a pve player though and as such prefer wow. But when i get an itch to pvp i'm in WAR. 

I would find it more plausible that WAR released a bit early to avoid competition with the WoW expansion than WoW changing their business strategy for a game that to this date has yet to prove its lasting power.

 

 

And t6 is going to look worse than shitty greens in WotlK they said there was not going to be such a gear gap.  But that was a blatant lie.

Originally posted by Cabe2323

Originally posted by SioBabble

The wishful thinking of the WoW hate brigade never ceases to amuse.

 

Actually I have played WoW for years but nice try. 

 

They didn't do this when BC came out.  They didn't nerf AQ40 and Naxx so more people could get through the content and they especially wouldn't do it for that reason only a month before the expansion comes out. 

Sorry guys but that doesn't ring true.  The majority of people who stick with WoW due so because of the Carrot on the Stick mentality.  With new content coming in about 2 months why would they need to increase the availability of Phat loot? 

Only one reason and that reason is they have had decreased server attendance.  They know exactly how many people are logging on how often (which of course is not the same as their 11million world wide subscriber number since that only counts subscriptions and not play time).  If they have seen a decrease in their peak population then yes they would be concerned.  In the past they have always had increased numbers to replace people who have gotten bored.  But within the last year or two they haven't increased nearly as quickly (which supports that they have reached somewhat of a plateu on subscribers) plus you combine that with the siphoning off of some subscribers by the current releases and you have a situation that Blizzard doesn't want to see. 

The last thing they want to see is the start of a decline. 

You forgot to mention the new "PHONE A FRIEND" Program er I mean Recruit a Fruit...lol Recruit a Friend........Another sure sign of a scared company. Why on earth would a company that claims that they have 10 million.....let me rephrase that...5.5 million chinese farming accounts and 2 million EU accounts and 2.5 million North American accounts.....why would they help people level fast....What sense does it make to hurry them out of the pre-bc area to the bc area to the wotlk....makes no sense at all...unless unless they again are scared and realize the end is near....
 

The worst part about this competition between WoW and War is that Diablo 3 may get less attention now :(

War is a failure already, yes I am playing it currently.

Im also in WotLK beta, and its great.

Guess WAR did about as good a job of killing WoW as AoC, LotRO, Vanguard, etc

Originally posted by yugyug

War is a failure already, yes I am playing it currently.

Im also in WotLK beta, and its great.

Guess WAR did about as good a job of killing WoW as AoC, LotRO, Vanguard, etc

 

 

WOTLK is so great that you spent your time play WAR. lol cmon you can do better than that.

Pay no attention to the wow fanbois.

If warhammer was so terrible and such a horrible game they 1. wouldnt be playing it and 2. wouldnt bother to even talk trash about it.

Mind you that the trash talk is usualy over issues that really cover everything except the tons of content, the great lore, the fun gameplay, the multiple choices in which to level up your character...basically gameplay.

Sure ive heard lots of crap about the gameplay in warhammer sucking, i think  alarge portion of the people that dont like the war gameplay like a solo based game, not a team based game...you know a game that has a best class or a game with silly combos like AoC.

The truth of the matter is, wotlk is nothing more than a "oh sht warhammer is comming" expansion.  You still have the same old dated game that requires a pve grind followed by a gear grind in order to enjoy the endgame.  So once all the wow fans power level their deathknights and do the same old wow endgame (aside from some new expanion content) what are they going to play?

If warhammer could only entertain the wow fans for a few weeks it will be amazing how a small expansion and the same old content is going to carry over with them.

I really think wow could stamp crap (literally) in a box and sell it as an expansion and their community would eat it up.

You blizzard fans better hope that their next mmo is absolutly flawless, its going to be scrutenized with the same respect that their fans have shown to every single game released since 2004....

Originally posted by AstralGeth

Why else? Because there is an expansion coming out next month and they want to make it easier for people to do BC content and get to 70 to use the expansion content.

Read my mind. People are going to be doing lvl 80 dungeons soon... Illidan will be all but forgotten (excluding his slogan of course). They're simply preparing for WotLK.

WoW is the Wal-Mart or McDonald's of MMOs. They have nothing to fear. The only two things that can kill WoW now is 1.) Blizzard or the more likely 2.) Letting WoW die from old age if you catch what I mean. Then again the whole "this game will kill this game" gets a little tiring after a while. Why does it matter what games kills another game other then to say "my game is better then yours", which is a matter of opinion and childish at that. WAR is doing great, short and simple. But it ain't going to be killing anything. That's about it, nothing else to discuss when it comes to this issue.