Seriously, 9.99 can fetch you 3ish new costumes and some emotes or 4.99 can fetch you a 30 day temporary power.  I appreciate the work Sexy Jay is doing creating new costumes and realize the costume/booster packs likely aren't stealing resources from other work but I feel like the pricing is out of line and we're not seeing a whole lot in return just yet.  Frankly, I wonder about the whole Wedding Pack release helping get VEATs out too.  

Of course I know I don't have to buy anything (and I haven't) but does anyone else have thoughts on this?

Not really dissappointed, just a waste of money.  I know there will be a small segment of the market that will be interested in them, and they don't take a lot of resources away, and they definately don't change the game at all, so in now way will they be impacting me.  They are just useless enough, to me anyway, that I can't see spending any money on them.

Venge Sunsoar

The mini-packs that give you a crappy temp power for 30 days? Yeah, I agree, those are a joke. Nobody should be expected to pay $5 for something that worthless. I don't know what the devs are thinking.

The full-packs that actually sell you extra costumes and such? Items like that rake in tons of cash for other games, so I suspect they will make atleast some money here as well.

Originally posted by Raltar

The mini-packs that give you a crappy temp power for 30 days? Yeah, I agree, those are a joke. Nobody should be expected to pay $5 for something that worthless. I don't know what the devs are thinking.

The full-packs that actually sell you extra costumes and such? Items like that rake in tons of cash for other games, so I suspect they will make atleast some money here as well.

Actually the 4.99 jet pack was a very much requested item. the others I could do without.

If you want to see some fun reading, go to the official forums and look at the people who were throwing a fit that the can't buy the perks that people attending the cons get.

You have to realize that the money gained from the pack is going to fund the cost going to make the pack.  The actual issue costumes are released with the issue and extra stuff comes well extra.

The pack is a great addition, it allows normal characters to get a travel power without actually getting a travel power, and for other characters to avoid the power cost.

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Not really dissappointed, just a waste of money.  I know there will be a small segment of the market that will be interested in them, and they don't take a lot of resources away, and they definately don't change the game at all, so in now way will they be impacting me.  They are just useless enough, to me anyway, that I can't see spending any money on them.

Venge Sunsoar

Same here. I don't really like tech-based heroes, so I don't care about the cyborg pack. And as annoying as it may be to cross the Hollows at level 5 for get around Faultline, I'm not going to spend $5 to make it easier. I'm usually willing to pay for convenience, but this cost outweighs the benefit for me. So like Venge, this doesn't really impact me. I do hope the packs create enough revenue that their development costs are more than covered.

Some people (not a lot) have said that paying $5 a month to never spend a power choice on travel is a bargain. Considering I know many people with double or triple accounts, I guess it's not that much of a hurdle.

I really wish I could get behind this whole notion of paid costume packs when you charge a monthly sub. Before you flame me please don't give me this "you pay for access to the servers", that is the typical fanboy response in the official forums. That might be what the devs want you to believe but the MARKET says otherwise, where free content updates are expected. Turn off development of free content issues and watch how quickly people jump ship.

What do we have? We have NCSoft driving the ship with Cryptic (soon to be in direct competition) gone, under this new arrangement we have in-game advertisements and PAID costume packs. They brag about expanded development team but here they are with little results and nickel and diming it's small but stable base. We have only two Issues this year, may only get 1. They put out VEATS in I12 then lay out this line that we got it "early" because some people bought the Wedding Pack! Give me a break, of course they would say that to promote the idea that paid costume packs are great! Sorry, you want to promote the selling of in-game items then turn the monthly sub off and make the play free but they want their cake and to eat too.

If they need the money that bad hold a damn bake sale! Seriously though, fire your weak marketing department and hire some folks that can get more people in the game. Sell posters, books, comics, figures and other tangibles that don't require the development team ANY effort to support. That side of revenue generation would HAVE to be totally self sustained however. The development team should be split, one to work on free consistent content updates and the other group working on a paid expansion.

As for dev resources, they are used to support these paid packs. Today I believe that both BAB's and Castle are working out bugs in the Cyborg pack. Plus, the new pack introduced a new power and combat auras so we are not talking about just some costumes. How much time is spent developing these packs is anyone's guess.

Is NCSoft's acquisition here to expand or drain this game? Is the bit of money they garnish from these packs worth the bad press or sentiments it generates? Look at the weak Veteran rewards and tell me they could not have used the paid pack resources to beef those up a tad or any of the other numerous areas of the game that are totally neglected.

To the op, glad you brought this into focus. I really wanted to express them in the official forums but that is rather pointless. If this is NCSoft's answer to the coming competition I really wish them luck with this strategy.

I can't disagree with the above poster, because nothing he says is inherently wrong.  But at the same time I have to disagree with a few things.

First off, content is always being worked on, BUT it's always content for the issues. Or patches inbetween.

Jay has flat out said that, he wants to add in a ton of extra costumes and the like, but he has to work on the stuff he's assigned to, rather then whatever he feels like.

So the developers take the time out of their content schedule and devote their resources to creating extra content. 

Sure it's a way to get extra money, but at the same time, it's also the only way we would have gotten the content.

And the only reason the 4.99 pack is even there is because they can't just give it away free or everyone would take it. It's priced to actually STOP everyone from getting it, but at the same time to allow the people who really wanted it a chance to get it.

keep in mind... they've doubled their dev/etc team.

they're collecting money on 3 'booster packs', and ingame adverts, GvE upgrades.  this isn't including things like those 30 day trials which had the temp jet pack included, for $20...

they've produced one issue since november '07. it's september 23, '08 at this point and i13 is nowhere close to being released.

that issue, if you take into account that the dev team said veats were only in i12 because of wedding pack sales... i12 was a pretty small issue for it to have taken 7 months.

i keep hearing people talk about COx issues are the size of paid expansions.  i'm sorry, i HAVE to call shenanigans on that claim.  COV was the size of a paid expansion and well... it was a paid expansion.

so, in the world of  present-day MMO gaming, where f2p and free updates are quite common, and lots of paid expansions are also present... no paid expansion, very little free updates... that's not something to brag about, at all.

i remember when updates were coming near every 3 months... then they fell to 4 months, then if they're in 3-4 months, it's a small issue, otherwise it takes 6+ months and even then it's not guaranteed to be a big issue.

redoing random low level hero zones still doesn't mean squat for all my red-side toons that have very little to do until they hit the co-op lvl 35 zones.

nerd ragers aside... COx just isn't keeping up to the hype.... they're collecting more money in various fashions and not putting out much at all in return for that money.

If its money they want, just unnerf ET, then they can have my $15/mo back.

Originally posted by damian7

keep in mind... they've doubled their dev/etc team.

they're collecting money on 3 'booster packs', and ingame adverts, GvE upgrades.  this isn't including things like those 30 day trials which had the temp jet pack included, for $20...

 

they've produced one issue since november '07. it's september 23, '08 at this point and i13 is nowhere close to being released.

that issue, if you take into account that the dev team said veats were only in i12 because of wedding pack sales... i12 was a pretty small issue for it to have taken 7 months.

 

i keep hearing people talk about COx issues are the size of paid expansions.  i'm sorry, i HAVE to call shenanigans on that claim.  COV was the size of a paid expansion and well... it was a paid expansion.

 

so, in the world of  present-day MMO gaming, where f2p and free updates are quite common, and lots of paid expansions are also present... no paid expansion, very little free updates... that's not something to brag about, at all.

i remember when updates were coming near every 3 months... then they fell to 4 months, then if they're in 3-4 months, it's a small issue, otherwise it takes 6+ months and even then it's not guaranteed to be a big issue.

redoing random low level hero zones still doesn't mean squat for all my red-side toons that have very little to do until they hit the co-op lvl 35 zones.

 

nerd ragers aside... COx just isn't keeping up to the hype.... they're collecting more money in various fashions and not putting out much at all in return for that money.

I'd have to agree about the conent coming at a much slower pace. At the same time i'd have to say that each general issue has larger game defining features lately. Invention are a example, and the coming mission editor(can you not see the reason why this past year has been going slow, this is what they are working) is a huge addition.

Originally posted by Bladin

Originally posted by damian7

keep in mind... they've doubled their dev/etc team.

they're collecting money on 3 'booster packs', and ingame adverts, GvE upgrades.  this isn't including things like those 30 day trials which had the temp jet pack included, for $20...

 

they've produced one issue since november '07. it's september 23, '08 at this point and i13 is nowhere close to being released.

that issue, if you take into account that the dev team said veats were only in i12 because of wedding pack sales... i12 was a pretty small issue for it to have taken 7 months.

 

i keep hearing people talk about COx issues are the size of paid expansions.  i'm sorry, i HAVE to call shenanigans on that claim.  COV was the size of a paid expansion and well... it was a paid expansion.

 

so, in the world of  present-day MMO gaming, where f2p and free updates are quite common, and lots of paid expansions are also present... no paid expansion, very little free updates... that's not something to brag about, at all.

i remember when updates were coming near every 3 months... then they fell to 4 months, then if they're in 3-4 months, it's a small issue, otherwise it takes 6+ months and even then it's not guaranteed to be a big issue.

redoing random low level hero zones still doesn't mean squat for all my red-side toons that have very little to do until they hit the co-op lvl 35 zones.

 

nerd ragers aside... COx just isn't keeping up to the hype.... they're collecting more money in various fashions and not putting out much at all in return for that money.

 

I'd have to agree about the conent coming at a much slower pace. At the same time i'd have to say that each general issue has larger game defining features lately. Invention are a example, and the coming mission editor(can you not see the reason why this past year has been going slow, this is what they are working) is a huge addition.

the current issue is 12.

invention came out in i9, right?  that wasn't this year.

the mission editor... which from reading dev posts/interviews... this is the device the devs created so that anyone on their team could create missions and they've simply modified (read - limited it's functionality) for player use?

no, i can not see what is taking so long that they have released one incredibly lackluster issue thus far.

sorry, i can't count VEATS as part of the "normal" i12, since THEY said the only reason VEATs came out in i12 is because of wedding pack booster sales.   VEATs were provided as a bonus due to booster sales, according to posi/babs/whomever.

p2p. that sux.

Originally posted by damian7

Originally posted by Bladin

Originally posted by damian7

keep in mind... they've doubled their dev/etc team.

they're collecting money on 3 'booster packs', and ingame adverts, GvE upgrades.  this isn't including things like those 30 day trials which had the temp jet pack included, for $20...

 

they've produced one issue since november '07. it's september 23, '08 at this point and i13 is nowhere close to being released.

that issue, if you take into account that the dev team said veats were only in i12 because of wedding pack sales... i12 was a pretty small issue for it to have taken 7 months.

 

i keep hearing people talk about COx issues are the size of paid expansions.  i'm sorry, i HAVE to call shenanigans on that claim.  COV was the size of a paid expansion and well... it was a paid expansion.

 

so, in the world of  present-day MMO gaming, where f2p and free updates are quite common, and lots of paid expansions are also present... no paid expansion, very little free updates... that's not something to brag about, at all.

i remember when updates were coming near every 3 months... then they fell to 4 months, then if they're in 3-4 months, it's a small issue, otherwise it takes 6+ months and even then it's not guaranteed to be a big issue.

redoing random low level hero zones still doesn't mean squat for all my red-side toons that have very little to do until they hit the co-op lvl 35 zones.

 

nerd ragers aside... COx just isn't keeping up to the hype.... they're collecting more money in various fashions and not putting out much at all in return for that money.

 

I'd have to agree about the conent coming at a much slower pace. At the same time i'd have to say that each general issue has larger game defining features lately. Invention are a example, and the coming mission editor(can you not see the reason why this past year has been going slow, this is what they are working) is a huge addition.

 

 

the current issue is 12.

invention came out in i9, right?  that wasn't this year.

the mission editor... which from reading dev posts/interviews... this is the device the devs created so that anyone on their team could create missions and they've simply modified (read - limited it's functionality) for player use?

 

no, i can not see what is taking so long that they have released one incredibly lackluster issue thus far.

sorry, i can't count VEATS as part of the "normal" i12, since THEY said the only reason VEATs came out in i12 is because of wedding pack booster sales.   VEATs were provided as a bonus due to booster sales, according to posi/babs/whomever.

issue 9. task force, revamped raid, invention system, may 2007

issue 10. rikti invasions and rikti content(admittedly light issue) july 2007

issue 11. new content, ability to go through old arcs, 2 new powerpools -november 2007

issue 12. 2 new classes(technically 4). new zone, powerset prolification. - may 2008

issue 13.

mission creator(beyond just their creator, they had to implement it into the game(all the content associated with it) a way to store upload and share player created missions(since they've never implemented missions to players without patches)

2 character builds per character

2 new powersets

level syncing

merit rewards

offline day jobs

few missions/costumes etc

over the past 2 years(technically 19 months if i13 releases in december)

to me that's quite a bit of actual content.

My point is, other than the claim that the wedding pack accelerated VEATs, it doesn't seem like the extra money these initiatives (x-packs and advertising) are brining in are making much of a difference currently.  Going from 15 to 40 developers, you would think that they could burn through content a bit faster, even if they ran into issues.  Unless of course, no one is buying that stuff or turning on the ads...

Originally posted by Bladin

issue 9. task force, revamped raid, invention system, may 2007

issue 10. rikti invasions and rikti content(admittedly light issue) july 2007

issue 11. new content, ability to go through old arcs, 2 new powerpools -november 2007

issue 12. 2 new classes(technically 4). new zone, powerset prolification. - may 2008

issue 13.

mission creator(beyond just their creator, they had to implement it into the game(all the content associated with it) a way to store upload and share player created missions(since they've never implemented missions to players without patches)

2 character builds per character

2 new powersets

level syncing

merit rewards

offline day jobs

few missions/costumes etc

over the past 2 years(technically 19 months if i13 releases in december)

to me that's quite a bit of actual content.

 

 

to someone that doesn't expect much, yes it is a lot.

to someone that saw that game as having a lot of potential, but being constantly nerfed by emmert (and whomever supported his decisions); then those are a lot of things that were a long time coming.

so... let's see... inventions is added (loot).  loot is something all other mmos have.  not something to brag about, everyone else was making sets years ago.  just catching up to the times and reaching some of that untapped potential.

you may want to edit your post, since mission creator has been pushed back to whenever i14 might come out.

from a purely non-fanboi point of view... the 'city of' franchise is just now getting to the point where it's competitive and has a listing of features you'd expect.  i say that, on the ASSUMPTION that i13 comes out this year and also that i14 will be next april-ish.

honestly, am i the only one that remembers when new powersets WERE an every issue occurence?  they can't share powersets AND add new powersets?

what has red gotten?  a couple of co-op zones... yet, while blue might only be getting co-op zones, not new exclusive  zones, blue keeps getting zone revamps and still outnumbers red like 2-to-1 (or more) for total zones.

and you can't compare red/blue zone accessibility to a game like wow and horde/alliance.  if i'm horde, i CAN go to every alliance zone and even invade alliance capital cities.  COx does not have that option, i can not simply travel until i reach atlas park; unless, i'm getting an instanced mission of some sort.

they have finally stopped with the foolishness of "city of heroes and villains are two different games", marketing cov as a separate game is EASILY one of the dumbest marketing moves since um.... well it's up there with the nge/swg, as far as "just a dumb idea" goes.

i honestly don't know what you're trying to prove by listing that stuff... eve online has had four EXPANSION sized expansions.  wow steadily churns out it's new issue every 3 months, 2 years ago would have us including TBC i believe and ALSO WOTLK, since it's due early nov (surely will be on the shelves by Christmas).   so um yeah, if we're comparing free-only -- look at eve; if we're talking content period, look at wow, eq2, eq and heck, probably even UO (off the top of my head).  

oh, we SHOULD count guild wars and all their expansions... 2 years x $15/month = $360... guild wars' expansions are EASILY cheaper than what you've paid for COx's "free" content updates... so yeah, i think we could count guild wars' expansions.

but whatever... cox's subs tell the story... when they can be arsed to put out new issues... their numbers go up.   did a bunch of people re-sub to take advantage of the booster packs or the rikti invasions this weekend?              i somehow doubt it.

I haven't purchased the mini-packs and it doesn't bother me that they exist.  Nothing in them that is interesting imo.

The future could be interesting.  I could see the two builds as a way for them to explore other coding.  Specifically, the ability to crossover to the other side or allow you to create all classes in both coh and cov.  That would be cool. Who wouldn't want to try a master mind hero?  That could bring some fresh life back to the game.

Originally posted by damian7

Originally posted by Bladin

issue 9. task force, revamped raid, invention system, may 2007

issue 10. rikti invasions and rikti content(admittedly light issue) july 2007

issue 11. new content, ability to go through old arcs, 2 new powerpools -november 2007

issue 12. 2 new classes(technically 4). new zone, powerset prolification. - may 2008

issue 13.

mission creator(beyond just their creator, they had to implement it into the game(all the content associated with it) a way to store upload and share player created missions(since they've never implemented missions to players without patches)

2 character builds per character

2 new powersets

level syncing

merit rewards

offline day jobs

few missions/costumes etc

over the past 2 years(technically 19 months if i13 releases in december)

to me that's quite a bit of actual content.

 

 

 

to someone that doesn't expect much, yes it is a lot.

 

to someone that saw that game as having a lot of potential, but being constantly nerfed by emmert (and whomever supported his decisions); then those are a lot of things that were a long time coming.

every nerf he has done has made the game a better place today.

so... let's see... inventions is added (loot).  loot is something all other mmos have.  not something to brag about, everyone else was making sets years ago.  just catching up to the times and reaching some of that untapped potential.

Oh gosh i'm sorry but i forgot that since other games have a loot system(and coh was praised on NOT having one) that it somehow made coh inferior till they caught up. Seriously did you start playing coh at i11?

you may want to edit your post, since mission creator has been pushed back to whenever i14 might come out.

 Too lazy to do this, but still it will be within a 2 year period

from a purely non-fanboi point of view... the 'city of' franchise is just now getting to the point where it's competitive and has a listing of features you'd expect.  i say that, on the ASSUMPTION that i13 comes out this year and also that i14 will be next april-ish.

 CoX was always competitive, if WoW was taken off the market, there wouldn't be a great disparity between subs that make games like coh look like empty piles of trash.

honestly, am i the only one that remembers when new powersets WERE an every issue occurence?  they can't share powersets AND add new powersets?

 Issue 1, no powersets

issue 2, no powersets

issue 3, epic archetypes, and hero epic pools

issue 4, no powersets

issue 5, archery/trick, sonic/sonic

Issue 6, CoV

issue 7, patron power pools for villains, thugs, electric/electric

issue 8, no powersets

issue 9, no powersets

issue 10, no powersets

issue 11, dual blades/willpower

issue 12, veats

issue 13, shields/pain dom

hardly every issue

what has red gotten?  a couple of co-op zones... yet, while blue might only be getting co-op zones, not new exclusive  zones, blue keeps getting zone revamps and still outnumbers red like 2-to-1 (or more) for total zones.

It's known that devs like CoH better, it's been pretty clear.

and you can't compare red/blue zone accessibility to a game like wow and horde/alliance.  if i'm horde, i CAN go to every alliance zone and even invade alliance capital cities.  COx does not have that option, i can not simply travel until i reach atlas park; unless, i'm getting an instanced mission of some sort.

 yes, but all of CoH and CoV content is exclusive and more.  WoW has a lot of content thats basically the same only renamed.

they have finally stopped with the foolishness of "city of heroes and villains are two different games", marketing cov as a separate game is EASILY one of the dumbest marketing moves since um.... well it's up there with the nge/swg, as far as "just a dumb idea" goes.

 agreed

i honestly don't know what you're trying to prove by listing that stuff... eve online has had four EXPANSION sized expansions.  wow steadily churns out it's new issue every 3 months, 2 years ago would have us including TBC i believe and ALSO WOTLK, since it's due early nov (surely will be on the shelves by Christmas).   so um yeah, if we're comparing free-only -- look at eve; if we're talking content period, look at wow, eq2, eq and heck, probably even UO (off the top of my head).  

Eve... it must be hard to add content to empty space =P but in all seriousness.  Just mentioning wow makes me laugh

What does wow add?

Raids and gold grinds, thats simply it, what did vanilla wow get? 2 dungeons(mara and another i forgot) bwl, aq, zg, naxx.  Over 2 years. there were game updates and etc in that time, but it's hardly a lot of content.

What did tbc get after it's release? hyjal(i think), BT, Sunwell.  MgT(5 man). And daily quests.

It's really not that much content, and it's not like everyone and their cousin had access to it.

Tbc was comparable to CoV, And WoTLK will be a big boost to content, but CoX isn't make new xpacs.

oh, we SHOULD count guild wars and all their expansions... 2 years x $15/month = $360... guild wars' expansions are EASILY cheaper than what you've paid for COx's "free" content updates... so yeah, i think we could count guild wars' expansions.

 Yeah provided you played both GW/CoH for every single month since release, which... most people haven't.  I can start playing coh right now as a new player, and get all the previous issues, whereas gw requires you to buy all the xpacs.

but whatever... cox's subs tell the story... when they can be arsed to put out new issues... their numbers go up.   did a bunch of people re-sub to take advantage of the booster packs or the rikti invasions this weekend?              i somehow doubt it.

CoH is like all normal mmos, it has a decent subscriber base, and it's fairly average.  You can't compare wow and after wow games. since it changed the subscriber base forever.

These packs are a double whammy.

1) You barely get anything for the money.

2) The content in these are things that used to be given along with the other paid expansions (they are paid, because you pay a monthly fee for this game).

Now you get new content about half as often, and instead they sell these packs. Its a total sham. Are they a microtransaction company or a subscription company? They need to decide and stick with one or the other.