Grind = Repetative task done to achieve a goal.

Killing mobs for Xp = grind

Filling and refilling quest logs for rewards/Xp/gold = Grind

Crafting items over and over to have the ability to make better items over and over = Grind

Killing players in pvp over and over for loot/Xp/Some type of pvp currency = Grind

Running the same dungeon/PQ/BG/Arena/lair for a item/ability = grind

MMORPG= Grind, Once players relize this they will finally stop bitching about grinds in mmos.

I guess most people refer to grind games as games where you just grind your way to max level with no other content except killing stuff, where as in other games you have alot of other stuff to do.

Originally posted by Gabby-air

I guess most people refer to grind games as games where you just grind your way to max level with no other content except killing stuff, where as in other games you have alot of other stuff to do.

Exactly. There are a few other things to do in most games, but they usually go back to relying on the grind anyways (such as crafting).

There are so many other things that games could involve in the play, but they don't. The problem is that developers come from making single player and multiplayer games, and they really don't understand anything outside of that box.

Players too. Most of them get lost as soon as you ask them to make a basic decision such as, "what shall I do"?

Eve?

well, there's a difference between a mind-numbing, painful grind, and an almost imperceptable grind.

IE, some games have systems in place that make the inevitable grind almost unnoticable, since you have having fun the entire time.

Then, there are other games where you want to eat your own face due to the pain and monotony.

SO, yeah...grind is an integral part of the MMO experience....however, it's implementation makes all the difference.

Originally posted by Z3R01

Grind = Repetative task done to achieve a goal.

Killing mobs for Xp = grind

Filling and refilling quest logs for rewards/Xp/gold = Grind

Crafting items over and over to have the ability to make better items over and over = Grind

Killing players in pvp over and over for loot/Xp/Some type of pvp currency = Grind

Running the same dungeon/PQ/BG/Arena/lair for a item/ability = grind

MMORPG= Grind, Once players relize this they will finally stop bitching about grinds in mmos.

 

Your post is wrong.

I Beleive Lord of the Rings Online would fit most of those besides the crafting part for weaponsmith, armorsmith and i think one other, but on my one level 50 character i had not had to grind at all if you got quest to do.

Abrahm, EVE has a grind for money, reputation, equipment, and/or materials, it does however skip out on the level grind, so it does earn some credit in that area.

Bear in mind though, going by this definition, nearly every single game in existence has a grind, and the few exceptions are some of the less complex FPSs and games as simple as Pong.

Your definition of grind is horribly flawed.

Grind- must involve an unpleasant or work (labor) oriented  element.An element that makes you overly realize and focus on what your doing.

Repetitive things can be very non-grinding when we enjoy them, and hence do them for that enjoyment.

The problem with MMOs is that the dev teams have little to no idea how to make them actually fun.Part of which is the "any monkey can win" approach.Becuase when winning is all but assured, there is no joy or thrill in it for very long.

They turn what could and should be accomplishment and fun, into grind.

Even losing can be fun,but of course its totally beyond them to accomplish this, since they cant even make winning fun.

Originally posted by qdogthepimp

I Beleive Lord of the Rings Online would fit most of those besides the crafting part for weaponsmith, armorsmith and i think one other, but on my one level 50 character i had not had to grind at all if you got quest to do.

I guess you could say it was a quest grind. But the quest were so good it didn't feel like a grind.

I think the problem is that people are wanting less grind these days where they can max level in a couple weeks.They play games with quick gratification and wonder why they get board with a game all of a sudden.A game where it might take a few years to max a characters level  you would have a lot more pride in that charater and enjoy the game more,it would be more of a challenge and sense accomplishment.Sadly these games are going by the wayside.


 ...Long live Ac 1 before exp chains... !

Originally posted by pileopoop

Originally posted by Z3R01

Grind = Repetative task done to achieve a goal.

Killing mobs for Xp = grind

Filling and refilling quest logs for rewards/Xp/gold = Grind

Crafting items over and over to have the ability to make better items over and over = Grind

Killing players in pvp over and over for loot/Xp/Some type of pvp currency = Grind

Running the same dungeon/PQ/BG/Arena/lair for a item/ability = grind

MMORPG= Grind, Once players relize this they will finally stop bitching about grinds in mmos.

 

Your post is wrong.

If it's wrong explain ur self.

If a grind is fun or not isn't the point.

The point is mmos are a grind I didn't say people didnt find repetative tasks fun.

Just cause you may enjoy a mmos grind doesnt mean it isnt called a grind.

I really don't see how my initial post was flawed, maybe someone can tell me why?

Eve has a Isk,crafting and reputaion grind and Lotro has a Quest and Crafting grind.

Let me ask you this, If we take the grind element out of MMOrpgs whats left? a loading screen?

Doesnt make much sense to complain about grind when the whole genre is one.

Grind is caused due to a persons play style, it has nothing to do with the game but all to do with HOW a persons plays and perceives a game. But I already know for a fact that many do not understand this and will always blame a game for having grind, mainly due to their own playstyle.
 

MMORPG = NOT grind

Playstyle is what causes grind.

There is some grind in Lotro.  I haven't played the game in over a year now, but I remember killing the same mobs for over a week to collect my legendary skill chapters.  There was also trait grinding if you wanted specific traits for your character.  Crafting wasn't so much a grind, but it was hyper competitive (upon release) so certain mats were hard to come by.  Having said that, the quests in Lotro are great and the game as a whole feel much less grindy than most others.  I have a lifetime sub so I'll probably pick up the game again when the exp comes out.

Doing something you don't enjoy to achieve a goal is exactly where the term grind came from.  Even though people use the term far more loosely now, a grind is still doing something you do not like.  If all you can see or do in an MMO is grind, then perhaps you should look for another type of entertainment.

While you are right, there are some games that are nothing but pure grind as the core game design, any game can be made into a grind.  Some games however are entertaining enough that they aren't a grind to play.

Killing mobs for xp = grind?   That covers just about every video game in existance doesn't it?

Grind = repetitive boring/monotonous task that you don't like to achieve a goal.  The first part can be factual, the second part is completely subjective.  Thus all MMO's contain a grind, or none of them do, depending on your point of view.

I should just copy, paste these responses.

Venge Sunsoar

Man you sure got me stumped on this one. I can't name an MMO that doesn't fit at least one or all the categories of grind you specified in the OP. Well that's awesome I guess if they provide a fun grind and other crap to do on the side I can keep on enjoying MMOs like I have been for years. Oh but wait I've never been one to complain about grind in the first place. If an MMO didn't have some kind of grind we'd all start out and max lvl with the best weapons and armor. And then you couldn't feel that satisfaction of being better then everyone else because you spent more time playing a game then they did.

Originally posted by Z3R01

Grind = Repetative task done to achieve a goal.

Killing mobs for Xp = grind

Filling and refilling quest logs for rewards/Xp/gold = Grind

Crafting items over and over to have the ability to make better items over and over = Grind

Killing players in pvp over and over for loot/Xp/Some type of pvp currency = Grind

Running the same dungeon/PQ/BG/Arena/lair for a item/ability = grind

MMORPG= Grind, Once players relize this they will finally stop bitching about grinds in mmos.

 

Your post applies to any game in the world.

FPS: Kill xx enemy = Grind
Racing: Race the same track = Grind
RTS: Defeat the same fraction again and again = Grind

Games (no matter what kind) is a product to entertain for x hours by doing the same thing again and again.

If there were no "grind" games would only last 10 min, and 5 of them is the intro movie.

Second Life.

Remove levels and experience points and you wont have a grind but I guess that 99.6% of the people that reads this wouldnt like such a game, afterall you guys just love to reach for the max level and get the best equipment possible.