But but but but... I LIKE grinding and chatting!

And as a matter of fact, I DO spend all day on multiple chat clients.

Wow, it's a good thing there are different kinds of games out there to appeal to different sorts of people, yes?

So - it's true, Ryzom does not appeal to everyone. If it doesn't suit you, please, do yourself a favor and don't torture yourself. You have plenty of options.

I think the key to survival for the game is to find the people out there to whom it *does* appeal. The traditional gaming crowd is not the only place to find them, and possibly not even the best place. I wasn't a computer gamer before I found Ryzom, and while it was down I didn't find any games that could replace it for me.

Fangirl? You bet. Unashamed of the fact.

OP, I'm sorry it didn't work out for you, and I hope you find a place that makes you happy.

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Originally posted by brihtwulf
Now, I know there is a difference between an MMO and a standard single-player RPG.  However, would you play a single-player RPG that just dropped you into a world and said, "Ok, here you go.  Go kill things or dig."? 

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Yes

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Would you be ok with the fact that they only had a couple quests/missions to introduce you to the game, then stopped having interesting content? 

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Yes. I prefer the "content" that happens naturally and unpredictably. A little structure is all I require, and can happily carry on from there.

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Would you be ok with them only having developed creatures for you to kill and not much else?

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Yes

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There should be no exception when it comes to an MMORPG. 

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Why?

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There should still be story lines to be involved in.  There should still be interesting events, possible side-games/mini-games. 

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There are. The players make them. Once upon a time, and hopefully soon again, the event staff as well.

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Why not have hobbies like fishing or other interesting things to do if it truly is a "sandbox"?  I like fishing (in real life), but I can't pretend to do it in Ryzom.  It's not really a sandbox when you're so limited to the things you can do with your sand...

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My imagination and creativity is unlimited. I don't need a developer to code it for me. Yes, I know, you don't want to have to imagine it, you want to see it. You want the developers to anticipate every idea you will ever have. I don't.

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I'm not without imagination, but if I wanted to just imagine things, I would sit on my couch and read.

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Sounds fun to me, I do that every day. But if you were truly using your imagination on that couch, you would be writing.

I guess "sandbox" means something different for you than it does for me.

I'm perfectly happy using my imagination and creativity to invent fun for myself and for my friends. Even when I played tabletop RPGs, I would frequently abandon the rulebooks and create in a freeform way.

I find developer created "content" to be far too limiting.

But you know what? It's OK that you and I are looking for something different in our games. Like I said before, I hope you find what you are looking for. I also hope that the people who would enjoy Ryzom are able to find it.

I hardly think the introduction of hobbies like fishing will make Ryzom better! That's one of the most half-arsed, tedious aspects to games like LotRO. Put there instead of more complex gameplay options. And to compare it to Asian grinders seems unfair. Which Asian grinders have such complex crafting options and editable actions? It's not as grindy when you can do so much more with the fruits of your labour, and all the harvesting options makes it a fun thing to do. The harvesting and crafting  are equally as involved as the combat in Ryzom, which addds depth. There are already plenty of quest-driven, hand-holding MMOs out there anyway.

Originally posted by brihtwulf

Originally posted by olepi

This is the classic response to a sandbox game: there is nothing to DO. No point to playing at all, nothing to gain.

I am looking at the RPG part of mmoRPG and Ryzom really fits the bill. It is a pleasure to just live in Atys, fun to see the seasons change, the mobs migrate, the progression of personal skills and new things to try. Would I rather play LoTRO and look for resources, or prospect and dig in Atys? Do I want to kill 20 spiders, or be free to kill what I want?

The grind is correct .... in all MMO's that I have seen, you have to kill lots of stuff, and "farm" if you can. Ryzom is no different. It comes back to where you want to be: killing Freaks in CoH? being a Captain in LoTRO, or play in the Atys world and take your chances. 

 <snippage>

You see, I'm not against "sandbox" games.  In fact, I WISH there were really a good one around.  The skill system in Ryzom is innovative and interesting.  The world is attractive and has some really unique creatures.  But I want MORE than just different creatures to kill.  Why no trade?  Why not have the ability for players to create a trade caravan to take along on these "treks" all the players seems to enjoy?  There are just so many things that can be done, but aren't.

 

I am not really disagreeing with you, the game, and all MMO's, could benefit from well-written quests and story lines, organized events, etc. In Ryzom's case, the solution is the Ring, you can create your own content. My own scenario involves a storyline, some "moral" issues, and different ways to finish it. You can just kill all (the evil way), or steal some without fighting, or do the quests and help the natives (the good way). All three of these methods will "win" the scenario and get various rewards from me. Instead of the devs creating it, I created it.

We used to have organized events, like arena competitions, that were all player organized. Great fun!

You could easily grab a few packers, and have your friends/guildmates help you trek them to another city and sell the goods. Nothing is stopping you from that now. Is it just that you want an NPC to ask you to do it?

Of course, I would like to see more mini-games, as you suggest, more quest content, and more capabilites (like flying, jumping, invisibility, etc). Ryzom is not perfect, by any means.

Yeah, this game really is a grind. You bash monsters, you dig, or you waste huge amounts of materials crafting useless junk to work up your crafting skills.

And the skill system is really a joke. It is nice in that players are not locked into a class, but the skill system is very focused for at least the first 50 levels in that you only get one skill to work on. Nothing like combat, shield use, parrying, weapon use, special attack skill etc or what Eve has (it's various piloting, shield use, engineering skill, gunnery skill, targetting system skill, etc).

There is supposedly stuff to explore and see, but I can't wander more than a mile in any direction before I run into a level 50 wolf that chases me down to the end of the world and eats me _unless_ I use a run skill that doesn't recharge for 5 minutes so I only get eaten by the next one.

you make your own storyline (as i did in SWG).  i never went to Naboo because i decided my character had been expelled there many years ago.  i decided he had a grudge against Tusken raiders so much of my time was spent slaughtering them. 

when you slap in a questline (as the NGE did) it streamlines people, forces them (usually with above average equipment) to follow that path and in many cases the story sucks...majorly.

i prefer the sandbox method because it is so much more open.  feel like you want to live you entire life in a swamp killing goo?  go for it.  feel like travelling the length and bredth of the land to seek out exotic locations and items?  go for it.   sounds much better than following in the steps of a million other people,

Originally posted by katriell

Original post is subjective.

So is my opinion of the game, which has allowed me to enjoy it for three years without mastering more than two skills and without being a casual player.

As for story, it's true that Ryzom has been bereft of it ever since Nevrax was in decline. But before that it had frequent live storyline events of varying scale and content, the consequences of which sometimes differed between servers. Unique experiences and memories were created, lore was revealed, and the saga of Atys was advanced slowly but surely. That was MEANINGFUL, whereas quest-based "storylines" are completely fake and must be ignored by the players or eliminated by the developers if any semblance of realism is to be maintained (i.e. the same town can't be saved 100 times in one week).

Games are games, and in themselves aren't real. Therefore I find nothing wrong with quest based storylines, or quests in themselves.

I understand you want a true persistent world, but even in a PnP RPG, countless players across the world can play the same module, do the same things, save the same world, with different characters. Countless other characters can play the main role(s) in Dragonlance modules and participate in saving Krynn, and have the exact same experiences as the players across the globe.. I really find it no diferent.

Are there named Mobs in Ryzom, can that named Mob be killed over and over by countless players? If this is true,then it's no different than the same quest being run by countless players.

Originally posted by brihtwulf

Now, I'm not going to say the current developers won't do any of these things.  I hope they do.  If they did I would be happy as a frog in mud.  But so far in the months they have owned the rights, they don't seem to have made any progressive changes.  Maybe they will, but in the game's current state it lacks MANY things that would make it a real sandbox game.  I'm not without imagination, but if I wanted to just imagine things, I would sit on my couch and read.

They've just recently got the game back from the dead and actually got players in it. I think you might be expecting too much too soon. It's still not really clear what the current owners intend to actually do with the game.

Yeah agreed, but also we gotta agree, that whoever's trying to run and host the game now, will have to do something.

I played the beta back then - with much enthusiasm.

I played shortly after for about 6 months, then quit in favour of more interesting games (offline as well as other online titles)

Then I gave Ryzom another try shortly before GF took over and then for some weeks up to the point when Cho and Aris got merged.

And now I was trying it again.

All I can say is, if not for the superior community and player skills, this game wouldn't hold me longer than a day anymore.

Why?

Yes others name it, it's a grind and there is no development in Atys in a global sense like what a representative of Nevrax once promised back when they did run events. (see CoX, DDO, LotR, world evolves/expands)

Stuff like fully implemented Ring scenarios that actually do something not just feel like player-assembled instances that don't do much other than their take on a little paradise or for a RP playground which is of course a nice treat, but doesn't connect to the real game.

As it stands now, the players who feel established in Ryzom will hold their position (in game as well as their attitude), newbies are absorbed but due to the nature of the game are pretty much flagged as such when they ask questions in global channel.

Now some people here say, Ryzom is great for chatting and RPing.

Yes RPing is great no question here, but there's no real channel for OOC talk or user-created channels that can be used for whatever purpose that channel was made for (See CoX again).

People have Local chat, that's just around your character, mostly for interaction.

There's the Region chat which works only for players in the same zone.

And then there's Universe chat, but that's only for Q&A stuff. (GM regulated)

More chat channels are totally necessary for appropriate convos.

Another thing is the tight rules on character naming.

I was just asked by a CSR (in-game assistant with GM rights) to change my characters name because it's not in line with the rules. After asking other players on all 3 servers and nobody did complain, I just quit the game for good.

Too much law enforcement from the CSRs since the GF takeover, thanks for that. I can have my piece of conformity in RL already ....

Originally posted by munecaroon

Yeah agreed, but also we gotta agree, that whoever's trying to run and host the game now, will have to do something.

 

I played the beta back then - with much enthusiasm.

I played shortly after for about 6 months, then quit in favour of more interesting games (offline as well as other online titles)

 

Then I gave Ryzom another try shortly before GF took over and then for some weeks up to the point when Cho and Aris got merged.

 

And now I was trying it again.

All I can say is, if not for the superior community and player skills, this game wouldn't hold me longer than a day anymore.

Why?

Yes others name it, it's a grind and there is no development in Atys in a global sense like what a representative of Nevrax once promised back when they did run events.

Stuff like fully implemented Ring scenarios that actually do something not just feel like player-assembled instances that don't do much other than their take on a little paradise or for a RP playground which is of course a nice treat, but doesn't connect to the real game.

As it stands now, the players who feel established in Ryzom will hold their position (in game as well as their attitude), newbies are absorbed but due to the nature of the game are pretty much flagged as such when they ask questions in global channel.

Another thing is the tight rules on character naming.

I was just asked by a CSR (in-game assistant with GM rights) to change my characters name because it's not in line with the rules. After asking other players on all 3 servers and nobody did complain, I just quit the game for good.

Too much law enforcement from the CSRs since the GF takeover, thanks for that. I can have my piece of conformity in RL already ....

Yeah, I also went for a try as I had a few spare moments to try that game out. To be honest the game looks quite better than average. The skill tree looks like that of city of heroes and villains clone after the invention issue. Yes there is independence. But what I fail to realize is what I do after I get the skills and tweak them and can kill a few higher level monsters there.

Missions are ok but then again the lack of teaming is quite obvious in a low population game. Apart from this I think it is really spiritual in Atys. I remember this line when the game first came out way back in 2004. But somewhere it really does not connect people in game. I played the game then and still have the same experience. Somewhere the game fails to connect people and the guilds and may be altogether it is more like character development and if you develop too then you fail to understand, why?

I think either I am too dumb to play this game or the game has too much lack of content to really keep me playing.

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Originally posted by Mylon
There is supposedly stuff to explore and see, but I can't wander more than a mile in any direction before I run into a level 50 wolf that chases me down to the end of the world and eats me _unless_ I use a run skill that doesn't recharge for 5 minutes so I only get eaten by the next one.

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Lack of teaming? I've teamed 2 - 3 times nearly every time I've been on Silan. That is more times than my entire history of playing WoW (all 3 times I played it). I don't even have a skill in the 30s yet! (on my alt, that is).

Just ask, people are always willing to group.

Blessings,

Originally posted by Mylon

And the skill system is really a joke. It is nice in that players are not locked into a class, but the skill system is very focused for at least the first 50 levels in that you only get one skill to work on. Nothing like combat, shield use, parrying, weapon use, special attack skill etc or what Eve has (it's various piloting, shield use, engineering skill, gunnery skill, targetting system skill, etc).

 

Funny that you should mention those because if you had bothered to level past 50 you would have for that each skill tree branches off into various others you could have even asked in Uni chat and people would have glady told you this... But I guess being a high level in Eve made you forget what it took to get there...

As for not being able to wander off into the lush wilderness; true beyond the towns there are now safe area's and it does take some skill to play a game that does not consist mainly of empty space.

The grind bothering you? Look at one of my earlier posts in this thread there's a section especially for Eve players like yourself.

I probably some have mentioned the harvesting vs roid mining (mining a roid being boring as hell and harvesting actually involving some skill...)

And if you're wasting materials crafting useless junk then that's not a fault in game mechanics but entirly your own because all (that is all not most like in Eve) gear in Ryzom is user crafted (something that should be familiar to you) so it can't be that useless.

There is stuff to explore anjd it is way more varied than the vast emptyness of Eve bit unlike in Eve you need to work at it if you want to get there. (oh wait that isn't unlike Eve in fact any newbie goin outside the concord patrolled space will get eaten alive by pirates both player and NPC...)

But perhaps it's better if Eve players continiued to play Eve; next thing you know people will be lurking behind portals waiting for wary travelers to kill and once they have complaining in Uni that the corpses can't be looted...

If Ryzom is a bit much entertainment for you then Eve might be your best bet :)

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Originally posted by Machieltje

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Originally posted by Mylon

And the skill system is really a joke. It is nice in that players are not locked into a class, but the skill system is very focused for at least the first 50 levels in that you only get one skill to work on. Nothing like combat, shield use, parrying, weapon use, special attack skill etc or what Eve has (it's various piloting, shield use, engineering skill, gunnery skill, targetting system skill, etc).

---

 

Funny that you should mention those because if you had bothered to level past 50 you would have for that each skill tree branches off into various others you could have even asked in Uni chat and people would have glady told you this... But I guess being a high level in Eve made you forget what it took to get there...

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If I had bothered to level past 50? I play games because they're fun. I'm not going to spend 20+ hours in a game to get to the "features". I'd rather just jump in and play. This is my problem with all MMOs: Low level game is very, very boring. As for Eve, I don't even play it. I just reference it because it gets a lot of things right (player owned structures, fairly detailed skill system), even if it gets a few important details wrong (mostly no incentive to trust strangers and even then poor grouping support/rewards except in PvP, and grief-friendly mechanics in general).

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And if you're wasting materials crafting useless junk then that's not a fault in game mechanics but entirly your own because all (that is all not most like in Eve) gear in Ryzom is user crafted (something that should be familiar to you) so it can't be that useless.

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No, sorry, but leveling crafting skills is a grind. Sure, all of the stuff in Ryzom may be user-crafted, but how much stuff is produced versus how much is needed? If I crafted only what I needed (Assuming I was somehow able to craft stuff for my level), I might be level 50 in combat but only level 5 in crafting. One has to produce a ton of gear to level this up, and not all of it is going to be used.

I mention Eve because Eve really is a sandbox. You can build your own space stations and manufacturing/research facilities and engage in some land conquest battles. Ryzom has a nice looking world and a good crafting system, but there's really nothing "sandbox" about it. You can't build cities and the only thing to change is your own clothes or your buddy's clothes. Content is minimal and the grind is awful.

If I wanted to enjoy the presence of other people, I can partipate in chat RPs, which give me tons of tools (my imagination) to create and weave a story, or participate in the story of another, without all of the hassle of grinding levels.

In a tabletop game, I set my players out to find some way to put a dent into the workings of a city and left the means up to them. They could have poisoned the water, instilled unrest in the populace, started a crime ring, or assassinate top leaders, or bolster the local necromancers that were working underground. Instead, they lured some nearby giants over and watched while the giants were hurling boulders over into the city.

No MMO will be able to match that kind of experience. But they could at least match the experience of setup time and lack of grind to reach the real content.

Originally posted by brihtwulf

So, after seeing that Ryzom had been revived from the dead, I decided to get back on and see if it was worth spending any time on.  I have to say that even as a free game, I wouldn't waste my selection on this. 

They give you a false impression in the "newbie" area, as there are some quests, some interesting introductory stories, and a unique visual style.  But after this little chunk of land, your quests come to an abrupt halt, with nearly none to be had in the rest of the game.  And the story immersion for your character slips into the background.

About the only thing left to do in the game is to grind out endless numbers of the same mobs over and over again.  This is the same mindless garbage people often hurl insults for occurring in Asian MMO's.  You get to run out into random countryside looking for some level-comparable creature to slay, and keep slaying, and slaying, and slaying... well, you get the point.  Want interesting stories or reasons to kill things?  Not here.

But don't point out the fact that the game is nothing but a big graphical chat-room to the "hardcore" Ryzom fans.  They'll tell you, "No, it's just a 'sandbox' game.  You make it whatever you want!"  And sure, you can, if what you want is to kill 50,000 desert rats while chatting with your guild-mates about randomness.  EVERY MMO has a chat interface.  They're all social games, so Ryzom has nothing special there.  And the social structure of Ryzom is certainly no different when it comes to the elitist attitude of the long-time players.  Sure, the community is better than WoW, but what game's isn't?

So, aside from grinding the hell out of creatures, or digging the hell out of resources, this game offers NOTHING.  The "ring" features are very limited and go mostly unused by the players.  The borderlands PvP is small-scale if existant at all.  The "factional PvP" doesn't occur, as I'm pretty sure the players are all too busy pretending they're cute Trykers to actually DO something in the game.  If I wanted to do nothing but sit and chat, I would just hang out on AIM all day.

I like the term "sandbox" being applied here, and I think it really IS appropriate; here's why:  While a sandbox means you can use the sand to make anything you want, you're not going to get far without water or tools.  And Ryzom is dry as hell and devoid of useful tools.  So, instead of a beautiful sand-castle, you're just stuck with dry-rot in the Sahara that is this game.

Unless the new developers who bought this game can breathe new content and purpose into the project, they're either going to generously keep the servers up out of the kindness of their hearts (and deep pockets), or it's destined to be the failure it has continually shown itself to be.

Just try to be part of the world. Dont just try to reach max objectives in shortest time. This is sandbox but not a linear crap where you compete alone against others. Or maybe just sandbox gameplay is not for you...

Originally posted by Mylon

 

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Originally posted by Machieltje

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Originally posted by Mylon

 

And the skill system is really a joke. It is nice in that players are not locked into a class, but the skill system is very focused for at least the first 50 levels in that you only get one skill to work on. Nothing like combat, shield use, parrying, weapon use, special attack skill etc or what Eve has (it's various piloting, shield use, engineering skill, gunnery skill, targetting system skill, etc).

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Funny that you should mention those because if you had bothered to level past 50 you would have for that each skill tree branches off into various others you could have even asked in Uni chat and people would have glady told you this... But I guess being a high level in Eve made you forget what it took to get there...

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If I had bothered to level past 50? I play games because they're fun. I'm not going to spend 20+ hours in a game to get to the "features". I'd rather just jump in and play.

*snip*

No MMO will be able to match that kind of experience. But they could at least match the experience of setup time and lack of grind to reach the real content.

At some point a man stood at the bottom of the mount Everest and decided to climb to the top just because it was there...

Should he have looked up and say "All that climbing to get to the top? Bugger that I'll just find me a mountain that isn't so bloody high!" ???

As for the grinding to get to the real content? on Silan your were standing in it in any computer game the content is all around you. (a bit like the man who climbed that silly mountian was standing in the Himalaya...) The introduction quests are there to both teach you the basics and tell you a bit of the back-story of Atys. On Silan the people are being trained to rebuild the world after it's been ravaged by Kitin seems like a good starting point for some RP and you can start at level 1; no need to wait till your 250. Unless of course you prefer to be a dungeon master....

You say you enjoy PnP RPG's have you heard of the Ring? It's Ryzoms take on the MUD in there you can DM all you like and the good part is: no level requirements!

These days everyone wants to be held by the hand.

If I had a penny every time someone said "what do you do in this game" in general chat during my time with UO, SWG, Wurm, Eve, Mabinogi and Ryzom I would be a rich man.

Some players just don't get it.

Originally posted by zigmund

 

I tryed the game on 3 seperate occasions, I tried to like it... but honestly the game went bankrupt for a reason.

It may have a very small fan base, but that's pretty well it.

And despite what anyone says, businesses are in business to make money, not make social chat rooms.

My take:

Two thumbs down.

 

its not 2 thumbs down. you just found it boring. i fint it boring too, creating an instance where you can, oh what they say, AVOID being bored in grinding, is to use a chat interface. clever indeed. not really.

I myself considered Ryzom a grind Even going as far as calling it Korean Grindish.

As I spent more time in the game I got into a nice guild that enjoys to team up and RP.

I haven't felt like i was grinding in a while.

Right now I'm keeping my avatar balanced doing something different everyday.

Im skill level 110 2h melee, 82 Defensive magic, 100 Offensive Magic, 120 Forest digging, 100 Heavy Armor crafting, 45 Melee Weapon Crafting and I'm having a great time.

I'm about to start using a Rifle since this Fyros HA in white makes me look like a Storm trooper, would be great for Rping I think.

I decided to go around to the Tribes in my area and run missions for them to gain fame so they can protect me when I hunt.

I also Decided to Turn my back on my Own faction and race by gaining Fame with Karavan and Matis (please log into WoW and tell me you can join the alliance as an Undead.... yeah I didn't think so).

Normally Fyros are Kami Faction and they hate Karavan and aren't to friendly when It comes to the Matis.

So i'm playing as this Fyros Melee 2h edge Outcast that turned his back on his own people in the Pursuit of technology over Magic. Going Against all Fyros Teachings in pursuit of Karavan Tech.

Now what where you saying about Ryzom having nothing to do or no storyline to follow?

Sadly today most people equal a "storyline to follow" with "Quests that tell you a story" preferably followable all on your own. In Ryzom you can write your own story, by becoming a known member of the community and/or your faction/race, by doing things just like those mentioned above.

CU

SaM

I have played Ryzom since beta and played up until GF took over but I am glad to be back.

Ryzom is special.  It takes certain type people to like it.

Ryzom has a different learning curve than anyother game I have played.   If you want to look around for a mark over a npc's head to get something forget it.  You actually have to do something, like look for them.  No one holds you by the hand and says now ask them they will ask you do something.  You have to find the mission giver then you have to actually look for them sometimes out in the middle of nowhere.  Yes it is not easy, but I like a game I can walk around and try and find them.

If you want a game that just gives you everything and play alone in a instance (GW) then this is not the game for you.

I love watching the migration of the herds.  Or see a gingo attack a yubo or anything.  It is like a living world. I feel warm and comfortable.  The community is a family.  I have met so many great friends in Ryzom ones I have known now for 4 years.

If you are a power leveler and want to get to the top in a week.  well try another game.  This one has so many levels in skills it is hard to do. 

hugsss everyone,  So glad to see so many friends back again in Ryzom.