Originally posted by WSIMike

Meh...

Personally I think the well has been poisoned for the MMO genre in general.

Once upon a time, ...

Very good post. I hope you are right about the future.

What if it's Darkfall? It's just too good to be true...

The real question isn't how many players they have a launch.  Its how many they retain after the first month.

Originally posted by Milky

The real question isn't how many players they have a launch.  Its how many they retain after the first month.

Its how many after 3 months, usually players allow devs to fix/add something but after it people start quitting.

Originally posted by IKShadow

Originally posted by Milky

The real question isn't how many players they have a launch.  Its how many they retain after the first month.

 

Its how many after 3 months, usually players allow devs to fix/add something but after it people start quitting.

Agreed on this, the first month is too soon, especially for WAR, the first trip to the city is gonna leave people excited for a while, assuming they're on the winning side at least.

Originally posted by WSIMike

Meh...

Personally I think the well has been poisoned for the MMO genre in general.

Once upon a time, players were content to find a MMO they enjoyed, dug in and played it - in many cases they're still playing (EQ1, AC, AO, DAoC, etc).

They weren't and still aren't constantly looking for the "next new shiny game that was going to blow the entire genre out of the water", because they're happy where they are.

WoW came along, popularized the genre and since then it's been this rapid roller-coaster ride of hype and disappointment. People jumping into the newest game, expecting it to be "revolutionary and ground-breaking", then crying foul when it isn't... all the while, keeping their eye on the next MMO which will *certainly* be "revolutionary and groundbreaking"... That one comes along with the same result... So they start looking for the *next* MMO... ad infinitum.

As long as we keep looking to the companies with the biggest names and the most financial backing for our "next fix", the days of "revolutionary and groundbreaking" MMOs are all but over for at least one simple reason:

They've become a popular and viable type of game that are proven to potentially earn big bucks.

The reason many companies wouldn't go near MMOs before and you only saw the occasional smaller companies going near them, is because they weren't "proven". Companies didn't "get" them, or how they could be profitable.

Well, along comes WoW which blows the doors off the industry, becomes insanely popular and profitable... So now all those companies who wouldn't go near MMOs before are cranking them out like there's no tomorrow... making sure to copy WoW's model as much as possible so as to ideally pull from that group. They don't just want a slice of the MMO pie... they want a piece of the WoW MMO pie. That's where the money is, and they don't dare deviate too far from it.

I would bet money that it's not going to be a big name company that's going to truly revolutionize the genre (remember, Blizzard didn't revolutionize MMOs. They popularized them). It's going to be some small, possibly independent company that hardly anyone's heard of... Counterintuitive as it seems, the smaller companies have the most room to take the most risks. They have the least to lose. They don't have a publisher breathing down their necks to "make it more like "popular game here".

So... If people are really, genuinely looking for something new and innovative... Ignore the big companies. Try looking into the more obscure ones. You'll likely not find the "next run-away hit"... but you may well find the "new and different" type of game you're looking for.

Don't be so quick to dismiss them because they're smaller, or lesser-known or don't have the backing of a multi-million dollar publisher. Find something that looks promising and spread the word.

I think it's pretty clear where the AAA-level MMOs are going and what we can expect from them... Pretty much "more of the same".

If ever there was a time for lesser-known developers to be given more recognition, it's now.

 

You give me a crafting system even close to what SWG had Pre Cu I am there.  I have tons of Friends that hate the idea of level based game, you give them a pick and choose skill base game, they will be there.   Till then, I will stay with Warhammer,  not because EA and Mythic puts it out,  But because I have fond memories of playing the pen and paper game 20 years ago.

AOC has 700k so not really seeing how 500k would be bragging rights. At that rate I am sure that AOC has well over 1-2 million by now and should see a big increase a month or so once people quit world of death knights. ( LF1M Scholo have 4 DK's)

Originally posted by Protus-AOC

AOC has 700k so not really seeing how 500k would be bragging rights. At that rate I am sure that AOC has well over 1-2 million by now and should see a big increase a month or so once people quit world of death knights. ( LF1M Scholo have 4 DK's)

Dude, AoC has never had 700K subscription ever. The only official subscription number is the 400K in the Q2 financial report and they still debate that whether that is Jun 30 number of August 14 number.

The 700k number that AoC has is the number of box shipped. If you want to go by that number you will have to compare with the 1.5 million box ship that WAR had.

Well the game is pretty all sold out in my area in Sydney so it's doing well down here.  Too many oceanic servers tho, everyone is clustering to the main ones and leaving the others empty.

Originally posted by LordDraekon

WAR is a niche game and will remain so as long as Mythic continues to operate like it's still 2001 and stubbornly refuse to alter their operating philosophies to accomodate a market that has changed.

You see, it's always been a dream of mine to own a hot dog stand.  Now I know I could make a lot more money if I open a McDonalds, but I want a hot dog stand.

You assume that Mythic is trying to be the top dog.  Maybe as far as PvPcentric MMO's go they want to be, but I never got the impression that thier aim was to beat WoW.

You sound like you expect developers to design games around what you want, instead of designing the kind of games they set out to design, and that's just silly.

I can see WAR exceeding a million subs.  I'm not holding my breathe that they do it anytime soon, maybe after WoTLK.  If WoW's xpac releases with the same been there, done that, feel that TBC had, I would expect WAR to pick up a lot of subs; especially if people enjoy the PvP zone.

WotLK could actually be beneficial to WAR.  A lot of people playing WoW may be hesitant because of the RvR.  WotLK will introduce RvR to people like WoW introduced MMO's to people.  A lot of those people that found MMO's with WoW came away with a desire for "more", and after they get a little taste of actual RvR and seiges, they may find themselves wanting "more".  In my opinion WAR is going to suffer a dip when WotLK releases, followed by a slight rise about a month later, and a few months after that I think WAR will see a bit of a surge; I'm speculating of course.

Anyone who thinks WAR isn't a real MMO must also believe the same about WoW. 
 

Originally posted by Fariic

Originally posted by LordDraekon

WAR is a niche game and will remain so as long as Mythic continues to operate like it's still 2001 and stubbornly refuse to alter their operating philosophies to accomodate a market that has changed.

 

You see, it's always been a dream of mine to own a hot dog stand.  Now I know I could make a lot more money if I open a McDonalds, but I want a hot dog stand.

You assume that Mythic is trying to be the top dog.  Maybe as far as PvPcentric MMO's go they want to be, but I never got the impression that thier aim was to beat WoW.

You sound like you expect developers to design games around what you want, instead of designing the kind of games they set out to design, and that's just silly.

I can see WAR exceeding a million subs.  I'm not holding my breathe that they do it anytime soon, maybe after WoTLK.  If WoW's xpac releases with the same been there, done that, feel that TBC had, I would expect WAR to pick up a lot of subs; especially if people enjoy the PvP zone.

WotLK could actually be beneficial to WAR.  A lot of people playing WoW may be hesitant because of the RvR.  WotLK will introduce RvR to people like WoW introduced MMO's to people.  A lot of those people that found MMO's with WoW came away with a desire for "more", and after they get a little taste of actual RvR and seiges, they may find themselves wanting "more".  In my opinion WAR is going to suffer a dip when WotLK releases, followed by a slight rise about a month later, and a few months after that I think WAR will see a bit of a surge; I'm speculating of course.

Anyone who thinks WAR isn't a real MMO must also believe the same about WoW. 
 

I think it's clear by the demographic mythic is trying to reach that they ARE trying to be the top dog. They made Wow 2.0 due to Wows subscription number, not because Wow was a good game... cuz it wasnt. War isnt a real MMO, nor is Wow.
 

Originally posted by Mcpoopypants

Originally posted by Fariic

Originally posted by LordDraekon

WAR is a niche game and will remain so as long as Mythic continues to operate like it's still 2001 and stubbornly refuse to alter their operating philosophies to accomodate a market that has changed.

 

You see, it's always been a dream of mine to own a hot dog stand.  Now I know I could make a lot more money if I open a McDonalds, but I want a hot dog stand.

You assume that Mythic is trying to be the top dog.  Maybe as far as PvPcentric MMO's go they want to be, but I never got the impression that thier aim was to beat WoW.

You sound like you expect developers to design games around what you want, instead of designing the kind of games they set out to design, and that's just silly.

I can see WAR exceeding a million subs.  I'm not holding my breathe that they do it anytime soon, maybe after WoTLK.  If WoW's xpac releases with the same been there, done that, feel that TBC had, I would expect WAR to pick up a lot of subs; especially if people enjoy the PvP zone.

WotLK could actually be beneficial to WAR.  A lot of people playing WoW may be hesitant because of the RvR.  WotLK will introduce RvR to people like WoW introduced MMO's to people.  A lot of those people that found MMO's with WoW came away with a desire for "more", and after they get a little taste of actual RvR and seiges, they may find themselves wanting "more".  In my opinion WAR is going to suffer a dip when WotLK releases, followed by a slight rise about a month later, and a few months after that I think WAR will see a bit of a surge; I'm speculating of course.

Anyone who thinks WAR isn't a real MMO must also believe the same about WoW. 
 

I think it's clear by the demographic mythic is trying to reach that they ARE trying to be the top dog. They made Wow 2.0 due to Wows subscription number, not because Wow was a good game... cuz it wasnt. War isnt a real MMO, nor is Wow.
 

How the hell are they "Not really mmo's."  Your arugment makes no sense what so ever, because by the literal definition they fit the bill pretty nicely.  And WoW was a good game, it set a bar so to speak.  It took what all these games had before, and rolled it up into a game that people could play on and off.  Ive played many mmo's and none ever gave me quite the feeling WoW did, I always felt overwhelmed, and over burdened in other games.  WoW doesnt over load you with stuff, but doesnt let you run out of things to do, and thus you dont feel a commitment to play, but you still kind of want to.  Just because its graphics arent using the Unreal3 engine, or that it doesnt have player housing doesn't make it a bad game.

Originally posted by marinrider

How the hell are they "Not really mmo's." 

Yeah I am dying to hear the explanation myself. This is by far the best MMORPG I have laid hands on yet.

I am willing to bet that most people saying this crap have another agenda altogether.

Originally posted by Mcpoopypants

Are you that suprised?? Like WOW, WAR was designed for the lowest common denominator. People who arent really good at video games, people who play all there games on easy mode. Children, mothers, etc. Kinda like the WII. This makes up most of the market, thus also the reason we see video games getting easier and easier, so are you really THAT suprised with its subscription numbers?

Mothers kids ... not good at video games, easy modes.

Why don't you drop all those pretty disguises and come right up.  Tell us what you really want to say.

Oh yeah I see, you are trying to say, "I hiding my identity under a pretentious name of Macwhatever, is proud to proclaim that I am good in video games."  Oh great, congratulations.

You feel better now, that I see what you are trying to hint at me.

You can go now.  Oh hmm Mr Mac-whatever, I do not know you, nobody does.  So either print a copy of your ID card and post it along with your picture and address, or I will not be able to come pay homage to you and worship your greatness.

Originally posted by Milky

The real question isn't how many players they have a launch.  Its how many they retain after the first month.

The real question is if you enjoy the game.  If you do, nothing else matters.

Originally posted by Orthedos

Originally posted by Milky

The real question isn't how many players they have a launch.  Its how many they retain after the first month.

 

The real question is if you enjoy the game.  If you do, nothing else matters.

NOOOOOOOO! You can't enjoy the game if it's EZ-mode and doesn't have POTENTIAL! You're like those bullies that made me cry in school! They have a li-fe-fe-feeeeeeeeeeee....

Originally posted by Mcpoopypants

Originally posted by Fariic

Originally posted by LordDraekon

WAR is a niche game and will remain so as long as Mythic continues to operate like it's still 2001 and stubbornly refuse to alter their operating philosophies to accomodate a market that has changed.

 

You see, it's always been a dream of mine to own a hot dog stand.  Now I know I could make a lot more money if I open a McDonalds, but I want a hot dog stand.

You assume that Mythic is trying to be the top dog.  Maybe as far as PvPcentric MMO's go they want to be, but I never got the impression that thier aim was to beat WoW.

You sound like you expect developers to design games around what you want, instead of designing the kind of games they set out to design, and that's just silly.

I can see WAR exceeding a million subs.  I'm not holding my breathe that they do it anytime soon, maybe after WoTLK.  If WoW's xpac releases with the same been there, done that, feel that TBC had, I would expect WAR to pick up a lot of subs; especially if people enjoy the PvP zone.

WotLK could actually be beneficial to WAR.  A lot of people playing WoW may be hesitant because of the RvR.  WotLK will introduce RvR to people like WoW introduced MMO's to people.  A lot of those people that found MMO's with WoW came away with a desire for "more", and after they get a little taste of actual RvR and seiges, they may find themselves wanting "more".  In my opinion WAR is going to suffer a dip when WotLK releases, followed by a slight rise about a month later, and a few months after that I think WAR will see a bit of a surge; I'm speculating of course.

Anyone who thinks WAR isn't a real MMO must also believe the same about WoW. 
 

I think it's clear by the demographic mythic is trying to reach that they ARE trying to be the top dog. They made Wow 2.0 due to Wows subscription number, not because Wow was a good game... cuz it wasnt. War isnt a real MMO, nor is Wow.
 

Actually while people who are familiar with WOW will feel right at home with War,  War and WOW are two totally Seperate Games.  WOW is Exclusionary. it is all about the Raid, You have to have X+Y+Z to be able to do the run.  War is about the PvP/RvR aspect and that leads to looser combinations. allowomg many other combinations.