Originally posted by Demz2

Originally posted by DuraheLL

a time machine to go back and delete WoW and a better group UI is what I think we need.

 

Gte a bloody grip, more peopel from aco, eq2, lotro ddo etc probably play war atm than they play wow.  Soe get a bloody grip.. How about asking dont these players get it.  Or are all these games immune to criticism?  Infact hell does nobody form those games play war?  Gte a dman grip.  This site has degenrated so far into anarchy and misinformation, its now ok to spew total crpa as fact on this site.

What you say?

Originally posted by Coldren

Originally posted by WSIMike  

- Not too long ago, I saw people actually beginning to argue for raid content to be more soloable because it's unfair to be forced to group to take on an epic battle like that.

We might be seeing the beginnings of that being delivered with public quests.

 

The problem I have with this statement is that grouping was a MEANS to accomplish a difficult, or supposed-to-be-difficult task. It was a MECHANIC, and until PQ's, the only mechanic available to instill a sense of epic accomplishment.

Put it this way - If it were possible to go back to the early days of WoW, when Onyxia was the big baddie on the block, and just walk into an instance where people were already fighting, would it have been a BAD thing?

The nice thing about PQ's is, you still NEED other people to accomplish said tasks, but the MECHANIC of how it's done is, in my opinion, greatly improved. No longer do I have to wait 4 hours for everyone who attempted the previous instance run with me to come online, manage all the groups and invites, ensure everyone is stocked with consumables needed, arrive at said instance, and have EVERYONE available for the upteen hours it will take to complete it.

Now, I just show up. If someone is there, then things go swimmingly. Someone in the PQ leaves? No problem. The PQ doesn't end for everyone. And you still want to HELP others, even if they're not in your group, guild or warband, because if you don't, they're going to die, and you won't be able to complete the PQ. And best of all, if you STILL for some reason want to wait and form raids or warbands to do a PQ, that option is still there. Nothing stops you from doing it.

I prefer this mechanic over the old one. By far. Now it's on my time, I don't inconvenience anyone else, and I still get to meet people or go with premade groups if I want to.

I don't really see the downside here, but that's just me.
 

Thus why I said "might be"....  It might be. It might not be. Who knows what the next logical step would be.

Don't get me wrong... I find PQ's to be a lot of fun in and of themselves. Looking at them from the bigger picture, though... they allow people to play among a group... but still play solo. You can run in, do your thing and still never say a word to the many people around you.

I've said "Congrats!" and "Good job!" to those around me when they've won the chest at the end... One or two others have ever done the same. Most just keep silent and go about doing their thing.

Originally posted by Cotillion99

Originally posted by skydragonren

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by skydragonren

Agreed the community is the worst part of the game so far.

Solo mind set is unreal in this game.

 

Hell people won't even form a party in a PQ when they are all doing the same shit anyway.

It is craziness how everyone seems to think that soloing is this game is the right path.

 

WAR wasn't designed for solo play, it was designed for large scale team play and warbands.

 

Oh well.... back to the drawing board I guess.

 

The solo-only mindset doesn't surprise me at all... It's what most of the post-WoW mmo players were demanding/crying/whining/begging for in every MMO I've followed since WoW came out.

There goes your console/single-player "beat the game by yourself" mindset, come to full fruition.

I've seen it unfolding since WoW launched and could see where it was going. I said as much and was flamed back then. Looks like I was more right than wrong. That doesn't make me special... It was right out in the open and one needed only pay attention to how things were progressing to see where it was all heading.

It's gone like this:

- First players didn't want grouping to be necessary for all of the content on the way to end game. They wanted *some* soloability to fill in when they couldn't or didn't want to find groups.
They got it, and it was good enough for them. For a while.

- Before long, they complained of not having enough soloable content and the idea of some of the more "key" content requiring a group suddenly became offensive to them. They demanded it be more soloable, or more soloable alternatives be added.
They got it, and it was good enough for them. For a while.

- After a while, people started complaining if there was *any* group-centric content in the game. They argued that they should be able to solo to end-game if they so chose, and felt that only raids should require a group.
They mostly got their way and it was good enough for them. For a while.

- Not too long ago, I saw people actually beginning to argue for raid content to be more soloable because it's unfair to be forced to group to take on an epic battle like that.

We might be seeing the beginnings of that being delivered with public quests.

It's to the point now where you can log in, never say a word to another player if you don't want to and still do just fine.

And now the backlash begins... Those who actually do enjoy grouping - at least some of the time - are wondering what the hell happened to parties and why so many people seem to solo all the time.

In a nutshell... the post-WoW community got what they asked for. And now it's become a bitter pill to swallow for some.

 

 

 

QFT

This is basically EXACTLY what has happened and this will only get worse in time.

Search out a fun, good guild.  Problem solved.  I can log on and get into a group at any time of the day or night 24/7.  Certainly makes the game more rewarding and fun overall for me personally.  If you're the type of player that wants to be grouped most of the time i would think you would have already taken this step.

Edit: Just wanted to add this- We also group with non guildies but its always more fun with people you know.

I've tried that, actually. I've asked people about their guilds, are they recruiting, etc... They didn't even acknowledge I was there... and I'd asked them in /say, in /tell, etc.

They were simply too busy with doing their own thing to be bothered answering.

Perhaps I've just had really bad luck, but that's the experience I've had so far.

That said... guilds notwidthstanding, once upon a time, I could log in to any MMO I was playing, almost any time, and find people not only willing, but eager to group up and do things in a party. 'Groups' equaled 'Fun' to them. And if not, they were at least *social* for the most part.

Hell, I've been in guilds in other games over the past few years where the members barely even talked to each other.

The mindset has drastically changed over the past several yeas.
 

Hey Mike come to Sylvania server and help us build up the engineer corps.

We might can have an impact... maybe...

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by Cotillion99

Originally posted by skydragonren

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by skydragonren

Agreed the community is the worst part of the game so far.

Solo mind set is unreal in this game.

 

Hell people won't even form a party in a PQ when they are all doing the same shit anyway.

It is craziness how everyone seems to think that soloing is this game is the right path.

 

WAR wasn't designed for solo play, it was designed for large scale team play and warbands.

 

Oh well.... back to the drawing board I guess.

 

The solo-only mindset doesn't surprise me at all... It's what most of the post-WoW mmo players were demanding/crying/whining/begging for in every MMO I've followed since WoW came out.

There goes your console/single-player "beat the game by yourself" mindset, come to full fruition.

I've seen it unfolding since WoW launched and could see where it was going. I said as much and was flamed back then. Looks like I was more right than wrong. That doesn't make me special... It was right out in the open and one needed only pay attention to how things were progressing to see where it was all heading.

It's gone like this:

- First players didn't want grouping to be necessary for all of the content on the way to end game. They wanted *some* soloability to fill in when they couldn't or didn't want to find groups.
They got it, and it was good enough for them. For a while.

- Before long, they complained of not having enough soloable content and the idea of some of the more "key" content requiring a group suddenly became offensive to them. They demanded it be more soloable, or more soloable alternatives be added.
They got it, and it was good enough for them. For a while.

- After a while, people started complaining if there was *any* group-centric content in the game. They argued that they should be able to solo to end-game if they so chose, and felt that only raids should require a group.
They mostly got their way and it was good enough for them. For a while.

- Not too long ago, I saw people actually beginning to argue for raid content to be more soloable because it's unfair to be forced to group to take on an epic battle like that.

We might be seeing the beginnings of that being delivered with public quests.

It's to the point now where you can log in, never say a word to another player if you don't want to and still do just fine.

And now the backlash begins... Those who actually do enjoy grouping - at least some of the time - are wondering what the hell happened to parties and why so many people seem to solo all the time.

In a nutshell... the post-WoW community got what they asked for. And now it's become a bitter pill to swallow for some.

 

 

 

QFT

This is basically EXACTLY what has happened and this will only get worse in time.

Search out a fun, good guild.  Problem solved.  I can log on and get into a group at any time of the day or night 24/7.  Certainly makes the game more rewarding and fun overall for me personally.  If you're the type of player that wants to be grouped most of the time i would think you would have already taken this step.

Edit: Just wanted to add this- We also group with non guildies but its always more fun with people you know.

 

I've tried that, actually. I've asked people about their guilds, are they recruiting, etc... They didn't even acknowledge I was there... and I'd asked them in /say, in /tell, etc.

They were simply too busy with doing their own thing to be bothered answering.

Perhaps I've just had really bad luck, but that's the experience I've had so far.

That said... guilds notwidthstanding, once upon a time, I could log in to any MMO I was playing, almost any time, and find people not only willing, but eager to group up and do things in a party. 'Groups' equaled 'Fun' to them. And if not, they were at least *social* for the most part.

Hell, I've been in guilds in other games over the past few years where the members barely even talked to each other.

The mindset has drastically changed over the past several yeas.
 

 

 

Every member of my guild is from DAOC. You just have to find one of the old school guilds if you want the old school mindset =) We rarely do anything not as a group, and we don't house an elitist attitude.
 

http://realmwar.warhammeronline.com/realmwar/GuildInfo.war?id=34&server=166

Also, I would recommend a roleplaying server. We rolled on Phoenix Throne with the intention of avoiding most of the kiddies, and it has worked so far. *knocks on wood*.

Originally posted by amorone

I talked to a few people in a party today doing a PQ and was blown away by their conversation. Two of them pretty much said all they do is grind PQs over and over to get influence to get gear and then all they do other than that is sit and wait to get into scenarios so they can get in "some real PVP action". Seriously! They seem so warped/misguided on "best gear = best in PvP and PvP=path to endgame" that is was shocking. I tried to suggest they get into some quests, explore a bit for tome unlocks (which do lead to tome tactics!), etc. but they acted like that a foriegn concept. Then I mention open RvR and it was like I was insane to them. Is this really just an effect of WOW's play mechanics or what? I thought the WOW factor was really just seeing folks pole dancing and bunny hoping in battles, but this goes even further......like missing the whole game!

You make it sound as if those features only can be found in a person who have played wow. GG 

Originally posted by Wolfmyth

Originally posted by Demz2

Originally posted by DuraheLL

a time machine to go back and delete WoW and a better group UI is what I think we need.

 

Gte a bloody grip, more peopel from aco, eq2, lotro ddo etc probably play war atm than they play wow.  Soe get a bloody grip.. How about asking dont these players get it.  Or are all these games immune to criticism?  Infact hell does nobody form those games play war?  Gte a dman grip.  This site has degenrated so far into anarchy and misinformation, its now ok to spew total crpa as fact on this site.

 

What you say?

Man I was thinking the same thing.......what the heck did he say? it's like....he's here but his mind is trying to do something else lol

Originally posted by skydragonren

I think the OP's statement was directed to the fact that until WOW came about teamplay, grouping, and the such were much more in play.

 

WoW brought about the age of leetomgbbqftw and everyone solo grinding to max, BGing for points over teamplay and arena in 2,3 or 5 for gearz.

 

It is a WoW specific problem as opposed to other games who encourage team play.

WoW encourages solo play and solo mindset.

 

In essence WoW is to blame for a lot of the way new age players interact with each other.

Agreed more WAR players came from other games NOT wow, but even those players prolly started in wow and have always and only know the solo mentality.

Or you could put it this way:  Blizzard figured out that most gamers don't want to wait around for 30-60 minutes to get into a group, only to find out that they are all a bunch of ninja-looting schmucks, or have to leave to do their homework 15 minutes later.

So they were smart, and made the game more solo friendly, while at the same time keeping plenty of group content in the game.

Originally posted by skydragonren

Originally posted by WSIMike   

...

- Not too long ago, I saw people actually beginning to argue for raid content to be more soloable because it's unfair to be forced to group to take on an epic battle like that.

We might be seeing the beginnings of that being delivered with public quests.

...

 ...

This is the most bassackwards thing I've read in a long time.  Public quests are a way to encourage group play, not provide a way around it.  The fact that it doesn't take all day to get involved in a public quest and actually finish it doesn't make it any less of a group experience.

Originally posted by WesKhan1

Originally posted by DuraheLL

a time machine to go back and delete WoW and a better group UI is what I think we need.

 

If WoW wasn't created, and WAR still came out, then WAR would be a completely different game.  Truth be dat.

Doubt it, War is WAY more DAOC based than WOW.

I think it was a mistake to put in scenarios given the WOWboys fetish with them. I am already hearing reports of empty RVR zones. FORCE the n00bs to play RVR only, they'll learn to love it with time.

Then again, these reports may be false. The trolling on this forum is unprecedented.

So this post is taking a shot at WoW players for whatever lame reason, and we now see between 3 launch areas for WAR 500k players, wonder how many he is meeting that are from WoW or perhaps he met people from other games and just wanted to blame WoW since that is the cool thing to do lately.

 WoW players stay the hell in your game.. Im absolutely not missing you. I'd be happy if you play more wow with the new expansion  

I'm sure they'll eventually make it auto group on PQ entering. Idk. Wow ruined MMOs forever x 1000

Ex- wow players probably wont get warhammer untill they reach midgame.

Theres no grinding pve untill endgame, followed by grinding to aquire the best gear or become a useless gimp.  Its a big change of mindset to go from this to warhammers style.

Also its a huge midset change going from a solo type game to a  teambased game.  I see a lot of wow players ( i ask lots of people in game if they are a wow player) in PQ's and open field RvR acting like its a solo killing spree, then bitching if we dont win. 

Another huge midset change that the wow player is going to have to go through is the fact that getting killed in RvR isnt such a big deal, either is losing the RvR battle.  All it means is you gotta work toghether to find a way to win.  Constantly losing and finding a way to overcome that is what i find so fun.

I think its going to take, for an ex wow player to get warhammer, a guild to straighten them out, get them in the right midset to succeed in warhammer.  Also i think once they learn how to play the team based RvR right they are going to love the complexity and good feeling they get when you steamroll more enemy players than you have on your tight knit team.

In my opinion its a great feeling of accomplishment than the typical 1vs1 pvp win or to run up to someone and gank them.  Using a strategy and having it work to your advantage when outnumbers is a really fun thing.

Originally posted by Thradar

Originally posted by amorone

I talked to a few people in a party today doing a PQ and was blown away by their conversation. Two of them pretty much said all they do is grind PQs over and over to get influence to get gear and then all they do other than that is sit and wait to get into scenarios so they can get in "some real PVP action". Seriously! They seem so warped/misguided on "best gear = best in PvP and PvP=path to endgame" that is was shocking. I tried to suggest they get into some quests, explore a bit for tome unlocks (which do lead to tome tactics!), etc. but they acted like that a foriegn concept. Then I mention open RvR and it was like I was insane to them. Is this really just an effect of WOW's play mechanics or what? I thought the WOW factor was really just seeing folks pole dancing and bunny hoping in battles, but this goes even further......like missing the whole game!

 

I've been trying to tell people for a couple years that WoW has created a generation of brainwashed gamers.  WoW is the only game they've probably played, and it's had a HEAVY influence on their game views (as if they deserve one since I wouldn't call them "gamers."

I've played with numerous people who refuse to try any other game/mmo.  And when they do they usually hate it because "it's not WoW." 

Oh well, I've been taking a break from mmos anyway, playing through the Call of Duty series right now.  w00t!

That's the way these things go. However your friends are well informed because most MMO's do in fact suck. Some are MMO's are pretty good, but compared to Warcraft they just don't hold up. I'd call it sticking with what they like more than "brainwashed".

No one is making us play Warcraft. People do actually like the game, unbelievable as that is. 

Originally posted by pdxgeek

Originally posted by DuraheLL

a time machine to go back and delete WoW and a better group UI is what I think we need.

This is such an ignorant statement. How many thousands of people currently playing WAR would have gotten into mmorpgs if WoW had never existed?

Hopefully fewer enuff to get rid of mass market, which ruined mmorpgs entirely.

Hell, mass market ruins/ruined everything, not just mmos