| 60 posts found | |
|---|---|
|
arkady09
 Apprentice Member
Joined: 8/16/08
The clearest way into the universe is through a forest wilderness. -- John Muir |
9/22/08 4:57:12 PM#21
Originally posted by ArcAngel3 Customers surely don't think they're god. They're accused of this, however, when they say simple things like, "please provide us the service you advertised," or "please provide a service that functions correctly," or "please follow through on the broken things that you said you would fix." Customers of SOE have said exactly those things, and the response has often been, "who do you think you are god?" This attitude on the part of SOE and/or its defenders only serves to highlight the incredible disconnect between this service provider and its customers. It is an attitude of hostile defensiveness that makes outrageous accusations of entitlement that most players do not in fact possess. I do not want to dictate to SOE how to develop their game, believe it or not, and I never did. When asked for feedback specifically by John Smedley, I provided it. Did that make me god? Of course it didn't. I also expected that when SOE advertised things like profession revamps, they would in fact provide profession revamps to their paying customers. These paying customers got all of the professions deleted instead. Does complaining about that make someone out to claim godhood? Of course it doesn't. As for the movie analogy. I think a better one would be renting Return of the Jedi, and getting home to find that you had been given the Ewok Christmas Special, and on top of the mix up, it didn't even work. Posters like Obee (I'm guessing, correct me if I'm wrong) and myself would say, "hey, I paid for Return of the Jedi, and you gave me the Ewok Christmas Special, and the disk is defective, please give me what I paid for, or my money back." That is exactly what SWG customers have been saying for years about things like the NGE. SOE's answer has been a string of hostile defensiveness that attempts, wrongly, to make badly mistreated customers out to be malcontents with delusions of godhood. So, on top of advertising one service, then providing another, and on top of that service being broken, SOE and its defenders have then insulted the very customers they already mistreated. And yet, many still wonder why people avoid them and their products like they were a computer virus. People are going to provide accurate feedback about SOE's poor management of this MMO. If you don't like the accurate feedback, you can berate the messenger I suppose, to little avail, or address the very real problems people are talking about. I suppose if you deny the problematic history of this game, you're only left with options that are going to make a bad situation worse. That's how denial works.
I agree, but then again look at people like FUNCOM, theyve Banned, cancelled, locked, and in some cases, outright DELETED entire threads drawing negative attention to the complete mess that is AoC. I left SWQ some five months after it released. They decided to end the hologrinds and make JEDI questable. Making all the grinding I did essentially wasted time. Im told later they just let ANYONE start a Jedi. I've never been back... Just as I will never return to AoC. In the end I can sum this entire argument up : MONEY - its all they care about, so if you dont like something, STOP PAYING. All the power you have in this world may not fit in a thimble, but you decide who gets your entertainment $$. This is the only thing that any company EVER understands, when the money stops coming in, they change stuff.... Most of the time its just too little too late.
|
|
9/22/08 5:10:44 PM#22
It might have been about money in the beginning but that can no longer be the case. If it was about money we would have already seen pre-cu or cu servers. Then and now it is about control. -------- "SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor |
|
|
Dracus
 Novice Member
Joined: 7/14/04
"Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars." |
9/22/08 6:01:12 PM#23
To see that SOE/LA care more about players than money... Well the thing is, that it is all about the money, since it is a business; there is no interests of providing games out of the goodness of one's heart when dealing with large companies. The purpose of the NGE was purely due to economics. To make the most popular Sci-Fi IP have millions of subscribers, and to do so required a complete re-visioning, hence the NGE. This was to attempt to bring in more people, while sacrificing the existing base. After all, what does 250,000 existing customers compare to say 2.5 million new customers? Very little and so worth the gamble. Had either company cared about the existing customer base, there would have been some exchanging dialogue between the companies and customers; that never happened... well let me take that back; only 10 days of notice; and not allowing for feedback of possible changes, but rather for only testing purposes.
As for a Pre-CU or even a CU; such things will never happen either. Again it is based on economics, not the wants of the players. Bringing either system online will require an investment and the best possible subscriber count would be 300,000 (as to how those 300,000 would come back, that is a different topic). But 300,000 pales in comparison of trying to get millions of subscribers. That is the goal of the major MMO companies, to break into the millions. Any system that is aimed for under 500,000 or 1 million subscribers is not worthwhile the investment. And that is why... Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness. |
|
9/22/08 6:03:32 PM#24
Originally posted by Gutboy
I agree Gutboy. SOE does know that even if they rolled back or offered classic servers they will not bring back the players. At least to the level they need to make the profits they find acceptable. Whether they bring back classic servers isn't the point in my view. It is how you treat the customer when you have them. SOE treated them very poorly with a great amount of disrespect and little to no appreciation. They made decisions and did actions that have led them to where they are today. Especially with this game. Instead of acknowledging and accepting responsibility for themselves, they blamed the players for not accepting the poor treatment. Customers are not obligated to accept poor treatment from a business. Any customer has a right to complain and criticise in any venue it is allowed. It is allowed here. So is the positive comments on the game and SOE. I wouldn't have it any other way. If you can't agree with what I have written, then I hope you can agree both our handles start with "G." See we do have something in common. :) "Suddenly, thousands of Trekies whose heads are full of facts of things like the stardate when the Cardassians farted on Deep Space nine are irrlelevant." - hardcoremoviecritic |
|
|
9/22/08 6:11:58 PM#25
Originally posted by Gutboy What does any of that have to do with this thread? |
|
|
9/22/08 6:18:47 PM#26
Originally posted by Gutboy
They haven't because they can't. They've got a skeleton crew, junior dev team looking after SWG now. They're unable to work on JTL without fucking shit up left and right. JTL is completely and utterly basic compared to pre-cu code, hell they couldn't handle pre-cu code after launch cos most of the guys responsible for writing it saw what was coming and gtfo outta dodge. ...The spread of secondary and latterly of tertiary education has created a large population of people, often with well developed literary and scholarly tastes, who have been educated far beyond their capacity to undertake analytical thought. |
|
|
9/22/08 6:41:11 PM#27
Originally posted by efefia
They haven't because they can't. They've got a skeleton crew, junior dev team looking after SWG now. They're unable to work on JTL without fucking shit up left and right. JTL is completely and utterly basic compared to pre-cu code, hell they couldn't handle pre-cu code after launch cos most of the guys responsible for writing it saw what was coming and gtfo outta dodge.
I would further add that if they really cared about their current subscribers over any other player base, they wouldn't be charging current subscribers their monthly subs during times when I get to play all my original accounts for free. The current customers continue to pay while thousands get it for free every couple of months. I guess you can say that is fine because those free players aren't allowed to post on the Oforums while the paying customers can. If I had a two year lease on a car and making monthly payments, I would be upset if every two or three months that car company let previous and current non leasers drive a car just like mine for a month free with no obligation. Even if they can't use the "On Star" service. "Suddenly, thousands of Trekies whose heads are full of facts of things like the stardate when the Cardassians farted on Deep Space nine are irrlelevant." - hardcoremoviecritic |
|
|
9/22/08 6:41:46 PM#28
Originally posted by CasualMaker
I agree, and since I don't subscribe to the "it's pride pride all about pride!" view (at least on SOE's part, since I think they really are "all about the money"), this is one of the strongest underpinnings to my belief that such a decision is completely out of SOE's hands. They couldn't (ie. are not allowed to) do a roll-back or classic server if they wanted to.
I agree with you on the part about a rollback not being in SoE's hands. Ive always believed that if they could rollback they would. But are not allowed for some reason or another. I could go on and on with my little conspiracy theory but we'll just leave it at that. :) |
|
|
9/22/08 6:50:58 PM#29
Originally posted by Apache_
I agree with you on the part about a rollback not being in SoE's hands. Ive always believed that if they could rollback they would. But are not allowed for some reason or another. I could go on and on with my little conspiracy theory but we'll just leave it at that. :)
I have a tin foil hat. If you start a seperate thread so as not to derail this one, I'll put it on and read. "Suddenly, thousands of Trekies whose heads are full of facts of things like the stardate when the Cardassians farted on Deep Space nine are irrlelevant." - hardcoremoviecritic |
|
|
9/22/08 7:35:10 PM#30
Originally posted by Gutboy
All of the "content" added since Nov 15 has been from a scrapped expansion. Droid comander should be about the last of it. Unless you consider profession tweaks and few new collections that followed the first ones content. Just joking btw:) |
|
|
9/22/08 7:45:28 PM#31
Originally posted by Apache_
I agree with you on the part about a rollback not being in SoE's hands. Ive always believed that if they could rollback they would. But are not allowed for some reason or another. I could go on and on with my little conspiracy theory but we'll just leave it at that. :) Its way too late to rollback. No classic servers Probably because it wouldnt be profitable for one of the companies. LEC would have to donate the use of their IP--not profitable, or SOE would have to give up a larger chunk of the revenue to LEC because they donated their IP--not profitable for SOE then. Just taking a wild guess of coarse. |
|
|
9/22/08 7:47:01 PM#32
Originally posted by Orthedos
Why do people always make the dumbest analogy that could be made and then *ponder* why people tell them it was dumb. If you took your family of 4 to see a movie.. at say $8 a ticket... $4.50 per soda and $4.50 per snack (that's what it cost here). So you basicly just spent $150.. that's it just $150... (I had 9 swg accounts at $15 per month for x amount of months in comparison). Anyway to your little idea... If halfway through the movie.. they stopped playing the one we paid for.. and turned on another one.. oddly enough they come in... apologize.. put the one we paid for back on.. and give us all a free movie ticket. I went to see a movie and they accidently started the wrong one.. so we saw maybe 2 minutes of a "cartoon" instead of Jason Strathom or w/e... they gave us all a free movie for "compensation". I think that's more the analogy to be made with SWG pre-cu/cu/nge. The arguement of course is long dead.. and you are right.. either you keep paying or you quit. I just thought the analogy was bad... I think enough people voted /quit that you'd think the "for profit" company would have gotten the message by now.. I don't really care what dev team they have on it... its dead to me. |
|
|
9/22/08 8:25:56 PM#33
Originally posted by Orthedos
What is wrong with his statement, 100% correct. You don't comprehend his mentality. What about his mentality? He stated something correct, and you have issues with it? You rented a movie, and half way through you disagree with the way the main actor treats his wife. So you send an email demanding a change in script and refilming, or you sue Fox or Disney? Try it. You only pay $15 for a month, and you think you have the rights to decide on how the game should be developed? Only $15 and you think you are god. Go count your contributions again. Its $15 and yes only a merge pitiful pathetic dismal $15. Stop feeling big about it. You are 100% entitled to feeling unhappy about the game. Quit it, like many of us did. That is all you can do. You have no say in SoE or whatever the new department is now called. They own the game, and you have the option to subscribe or quit. Sorry that is all you can do. As for owning Sony Corporation, dream on.
If somebody other than SOE is making the next SW MMO..and the negative word of mouth that SOE is drowning in had anything to do with it...then I figure we've cost SOE potentially hundreds of millions of dollars. Not to shabby. I have no idea if the decision to go with someone else was influenced at all by the 1000's of whiney vets or not..or if there is even another sw mmo being made at all, but if it has, your little rebuttal there is a tad off the mark. Not to mention..if we wanna play the classic version for free, well thats being worked on. Of coarse it's just as possible that we havent influenced anything and wont be seeing a good SW mmo made by a good company either. At least we tried. Better than sticking up for SOE's right to rip people off. BTW..that 15 dolla is for the persitant world. That was the deal and anyone who really wanted a full refund could have gotten it had they gotten their lawyer to ask for it. Doesnt seem SOE even agrees with you then. |
|
|
9/22/08 8:29:56 PM#34
Once KOTOR3 comes out, who ever is still playing this game will be gone anyways. This game was over years ago. I've been waiting for SWG2, but I doubt that will ever happen now.
|
|
|
9/22/08 10:44:41 PM#35
Originally posted by GrandAm
Actually I as a consumer do have a right to tell any company how to do their business. I say it with my wallet. If they want what is in it they will listen. If they don't care, they won't. You can vote with your wallet and quit, the world will still move on and Sony generally forgets your existence except as a suspended record in one of their million databases. Yes, I have quit it. But just because I have quit it doesn't mean I have no right to criticize or commend them for their actions. I choose to generally criticize. YOu can criticise but trying to pretend that you have a right to anything is daydreaming. I can criticise George Bush's policies, but do I get a vote when they decide on which army to send into Iraq? As far as me owning Sony and dream on, well if they want my money I do. If you are the kind rich enough to make a signficant investment in Sony, you will not be writing such bullshit To prove this they keep giving me and others free play time with original subbed toons. They must want me very badly. How many current subscribers paid for their account time when I and others get to play for free? How much of their money was given to me by Sony? they are giving every one a free trial, they are airing ads. That is marketing, you are just 1 of a few million targeted players, like a drop of water in the ocean. They want your money? Sure if you follow their rules. You are special? As special as anyone paying a sub. And you stop there. Playing by their rules, taking their patches and changes, or leave. You have no further rights there. That means, the first one quoted above is right. All you are is just 1 in hundreds of thousands of subscriber, basically a Mr Nobody. You get free trials in supermarkets, you get complementary tickets or discount coupons from magazines and McDonalds. If you feel proud b/c of that, hmm you are really very innocent indeed. Or maybe take a hard look at the mirror. Who do you see? Superman? |
|
|
9/22/08 10:57:15 PM#36
Originally posted by Antarious
Why do people always make the dumbest analogy that could be made and then *ponder* why people tell them it was dumb. If you took your family of 4 to see a movie.. at say $8 a ticket... $4.50 per soda and $4.50 per snack (that's what it cost here). So you basicly just spent $150.. that's it just $150... (I had 9 swg accounts at $15 per month for x amount of months in comparison). Anyway to your little idea... If halfway through the movie.. they stopped playing the one we paid for.. and turned on another one.. oddly enough they come in... apologize.. put the one we paid for back on.. and give us all a free movie ticket. I went to see a movie and they accidently started the wrong one.. so we saw maybe 2 minutes of a "cartoon" instead of Jason Strathom or w/e... they gave us all a free movie for "compensation". I think that's more the analogy to be made with SWG pre-cu/cu/nge. The arguement of course is long dead.. and you are right.. either you keep paying or you quit. I just thought the analogy was bad... I think enough people voted /quit that you'd think the "for profit" company would have gotten the message by now.. I don't really care what dev team they have on it... its dead to me. I am not on the Sony board, I do not know why SoE decided to allow refund after the big nerf. I dare not conclude directly that its due to legal issues. Maybe they just want to lower the potential bad publicity. Many of us quit SWG during CU/NGE dabacle. I for one feel very angry when I have to leave my big monkey behind. But that is it. The game has been changed, and I have no LEGAL RIGHTS to stop them. I do not think I am dumb, I think I am realistic and I realize how much power I can exercise over Sony. If you think SWG will kill Sony go take a hard look. They lost more money selling PS3 in 1 year than they can earn from SWG for 10 years, and that is just selling, not including the billions of development dollars. Losing SWG is hardly an issue for a corporation as large as Sony. I doubt if the SWG revenue can pay for 1% of the total corporate ad expenses. You think we as SWG community matters that much? You might want to take a look at the way corporate board works. They work on aggregated statistics, in which SWG conveniently vanished as a rounding error, brushed under a carpet called miscellanous income from other minor services. You argument over the movie is moving into legal technicality, basically you ask if SWG has violated the terms of services with NGE. I do not know, I am not a lawyer. Go ask lawyers, there are as many views as there are breathing lawyers, and at the end of the day, its the view of the federal judge that has the last say. Bring them to court and see what come out as sentence. Till then, its your big talk against someone else's speculation. |
|
|
9/22/08 11:07:57 PM#37
Originally posted by Orthedos
What is wrong with his statement, 100% correct. You don't comprehend his mentality. What about his mentality? He stated something correct, and you have issues with it? You rented a movie, and half way through you disagree with the way the main actor treats his wife. So you send an email demanding a change in script and refilming, or you sue Fox or Disney? Try it. You only pay $15 for a month, and you think you have the rights to decide on how the game should be developed? Only $15 and you think you are god. Go count your contributions again. Its $15 and yes only a merge pitiful pathetic dismal $15. Stop feeling big about it. You are 100% entitled to feeling unhappy about the game. Quit it, like many of us did. That is all you can do. You have no say in SoE or whatever the new department is now called. They own the game, and you have the option to subscribe or quit. Sorry that is all you can do. As for owning Sony Corporation, dream on.
Are you joking? Really as a consumer we have the right to complain. Because if we do not like something we do not have to buy it. The guy can spew all the crap he wants about us renting a game. Yes it is true its SOE's game. But they are not making the game to play it for only them selfs. Thats just nuts. They made it to make money. And as a customer to complain about the state of a game is because they enjoyed it at first, and it was then ruined. At your job have you ever had anyone come and complain to you about service or anything of that sort? Reason being is because they care about were they are going and they get upset when the service is bad. If they can help it they do not want to go else were. But if it is bad, and then complained about, and bad again then they will leave. They will leave and be gone for ever. As a consumer we have more power in marketing that you could imagine. We can change how things are done very easily. One person can start a giant boycott of something and get compaines closed. And from what ive heard about SWG, that is exactly what has happend. Why they are keeping it up is a shock. But they ruined a game that many fans enjoyed. Now less than what 20k players are subscribbed? Does that even cover their server/emplyee fees? |
|
|
9/22/08 11:15:23 PM#38
Originally posted by onlinenow225
Are you joking? Really as a consumer we have the right to complain. Because if we do not like something we do not have to buy it. The guy can spew all the crap he wants about us renting a game. Yes it is true its SOE's game. But they are not making the game to play it for only them selfs. Thats just nuts. They made it to make money. And as a customer to complain about the state of a game is because they enjoyed it at first, and it was then ruined. At your job have you ever had anyone come and complain to you about service or anything of that sort? Reason being is because they care about were they are going and they get upset when the service is bad. If they can help it they do not want to go else were. But if it is bad, and then complained about, and bad again then they will leave. They will leave and be gone for ever. As a consumer we have more power in marketing that you could imagine. We can change how things are done very easily. One person can start a giant boycott of something and get compaines closed. And from what ive heard about SWG, that is exactly what has happend. Why they are keeping it up is a shock. But they ruined a game that many fans enjoyed. Now less than what 20k players are subscribbed? Does that even cover their server/emplyee fees? Complaining is one thing, talking as if Sony has violated you by implementing the NGE is another thing. Some of the extremist talk as if Sony owe them a limb when the CU/NGE comes that is insane. Like I said above you can complain outside White House, but that is all you can do. You have NO rights to stop what is being voted inside the oval office. See the difference? I hate CU, I hate it so much I quit and never go back. I am on your side when it comes to SWG. BUT I know my limits, I will talk with friends about how things could have been better. I never talk as if I can control or influence Sony. Not by being just a subscriber to a minor game. |
|
Originally posted by FikusOfAhazi
I agree with you on the part about a rollback not being in SoE's hands. Ive always believed that if they could rollback they would. But are not allowed for some reason or another. I could go on and on with my little conspiracy theory but we'll just leave it at that. :) Its way too late to rollback. No classic servers Probably because it wouldnt be profitable for one of the companies. LEC would have to donate the use of their IP--not profitable, or SOE would have to give up a larger chunk of the revenue to LEC because they donated their IP--not profitable for SOE then. Just taking a wild guess of coarse.
Classic servers wouldn't be profitable, but they would be a huge source of positive PR for SOE. The main problem is that the folks in charge honestly think the current game is better than the pre-NGE version. The NGE was inflicted on the game because the folks in charge (SOE folks, from those in charge of the dev team to SOe management) neither understood the game, nor did they like it. The figured that changing the game to be much more like the games they like (WoW) would make the game more fun and thus, more successful. Look at the reaction by the dev team every time they release a new major publish and there is no increase in subs, along with complaints on the OBoards. They get very pissy. The entire reason the game will never be anything more than the excrement it currently is, is because nobody with any influence is aware how awful the game truely is, which keeps them from making changes that the current game needs. They do know the old version was much more popular, but they don't understand why. Look at Dan Rubenfield blaming marketing for the failure of the NGE. He honestly thinks the NGE made the game better, but that marketing dropped the ball and caused the NGE to flop. The folks in charge of SOE most likely feel the same way, and have convinced the folks at LEC the same thing. The latest grasp at straws has the developers claiming they don't consider the game to be the NGE any longer, since such major changes as, uh, adding collection grinds and cookie cutter instances, hve substantially changed the game to no longer be similar to the NGE, aside from the poorly concieved classes, horrid combat system, poor animations, and complete lack of fun gameplay. Their new claim has worked out so well that the same folks who constantly defended the NGE as an improvement, are now claiming the game is better because the NGE is gone. I actually agree with the sentiment. SWG is no longer SWG: NGE, it is SWG: NGE with cookie cutter instances and collection grinds. Now, instead of playing a poorly thought out class with the single worst combat system in any MMO available, you can play a poorly though out class with the single worst combat system in any MMO available even longer, since you need to kill even more random critters for the collections and the instance MOBs have even more hit points than normal MOBs!. What an improvement!
|
|
|
9/22/08 11:29:04 PM#40
Originally posted by Orthedos I am not on the Sony board, I do not know why SoE decided to allow refund after the big nerf. I dare not conclude directly that its due to legal issues. Maybe they just want to lower the potential bad publicity. Many of us quit SWG during CU/NGE dabacle. I for one feel very angry when I have to leave my big monkey behind. But that is it. The game has been changed, and I have no LEGAL RIGHTS to stop them. I do not think I am dumb, I think I am realistic and I realize how much power I can exercise over Sony. If you think SWG will kill Sony go take a hard look. They lost more money selling PS3 in 1 year than they can earn from SWG for 10 years, and that is just selling, not including the billions of development dollars. Losing SWG is hardly an issue for a corporation as large as Sony. I doubt if the SWG revenue can pay for 1% of the total corporate ad expenses. You think we as SWG community matters that much? You might want to take a look at the way corporate board works. They work on aggregated statistics, in which SWG conveniently vanished as a rounding error, brushed under a carpet called miscellanous income from other minor services. You argument over the movie is moving into legal technicality, basically you ask if SWG has violated the terms of services with NGE. I do not know, I am not a lawyer. Go ask lawyers, there are as many views as there are breathing lawyers, and at the end of the day, its the view of the federal judge that has the last say. Bring them to court and see what come out as sentence. Till then, its your big talk against someone else's speculation.
Sorry bait and switch is illegal. They had to or could be suied hardcore with a class action lawsuite. |
|
