Originally posted by whisperwynd

Originally posted by airhead

Get some friends, booze etc, a couple of D&D manuals and some dice. Play from dusk till dawn (or till you pass out, whichever comes first). No monthly fees. Tons of socializing in a fantasy context.

Or play chess at the mall with 10+ others drinking starbucks in the afternoon. Talk philosophy, economics, or politics while playing a heady game.

Or if your standards are not that high, go to a bar get drunk and talk to skanky divorcees who have failed at marriage 3+ times because they only think about themselves..... socialize!

But computer games are for kids. 10-20 kids. Concerning the 20-30 crowd, they play them because they haven't grown up yet. The 30-40 group play them because they want to have long periods away from a nagging wife or screaming kids. And the 40+ play them because they are nostalgic about their lost youth.

I think since facebook etc have gotten bigger, people socialize there more than MMOs. The traditional MMO with this social orientation and escape played a part in history, but it's time is past. Internet socialization is happening now in places like facebook ... for free. For 50 bucks and 15/mo, people want to see something, then kill it.

This truly made me laugh...

 If you don't want to socialize in a game, then why in God's name would you even consider picking up an Mmo? Like the PvP...have to kill those noobs out there to always have an inflated ego? Ahh yes, the pwonage is where it's at isn't...so play Fortress 2, or CoD4 where that's all you do "Ad Nauseum".

What else? Normal single players don't offer you the same grind? Gear based items? lol 

Not to be insensitive either Airhead, but since you obviously have a condescending view on anyone over 20, since most of your vues above that are a little insulting, then it's easy to deduce you know little of what you speak of since you lack a little life experience because you're still too wet behind the ears, or you fall in your 20-30 range and haven't grown up yet, and so still don't know what you're talking about.

Be careful when you decide to label ppl in age groups, because no matter your age, you still make yourself look like an asshat.

The more ppl who insist on playing mmos for single player-minded reasons, the more the genre will die out for what it was meant to be.  I respect why ppl wouldn't want to chat much or at all, I don't respect someone who doesn't reciprocate that same respect for those who do.

hehe.... well, if I made you laugh, then I succeeded !!

I'm not sure where I said that I ENJOY the current state of affairs. Did I say that? I wasn't being ostentatious, just kind of gloomy, like Andy Rooney does on 60 minutes. But in reality, I love everybody.

And as for age, you can click my name and yes, it's correct... i'm 45. In that group that bemoans our lost youth...when life's choices are between the least painful alternatives. hehe.

But all your personal attacks and my negative commentary aside, none of it really matters. Socializing in MMOs is over and done with. Kids use facebook for that now (i got 3 and I see them doing it all the time. Granted 3 doesn't really prove it, but how many do you have to offer as a counter-argument?). There was a day when socializing and friend-making went hand in hand with subscription MMOs (UO, EQ, etc). Those days are gone. There are too many FREE ways to do that now. MMOs are turning more into games to play instead of places to make friends. That doesn't mean groups of friends will not form and do stuff together with a lot of socializing, just that it will become more and more rare, (instead of the other way around).

All pleas and actions made by people like yourself are great. Go for it! Try to make MMOs socializing activities. Plead for development companies to create more group-centered, chat-it-up activities you can do with your friends. It's a great goal.   but imo, it's just not going to happen.

The gaming industry is going a different direction, while the world is going towards socializing on FREE venues with increased character customization and a closer link to RL, ( with it's associated perception of having a better chance of getting laid, to put it frankly).

Those people who only know (or care about) the over-hyped MMOs (AoC, WAR, ...) make me laugh. You can't make those games your "last hope" just because they "feel" important enough. They're just games, with potentially crappy designers, like all the other games. You can't let yourself be affected by PR and fanbois.

BTW, it's not the right time to say good bye to MMOs. There hasn't been good MMOs for like 2 years. But new good MMOs (who said sandbox?) are coming quite soon.

Originally posted by admiralnlson

Those people who only know (or care about) the over-hyped MMOs (AoC, WAR, ...) make me laugh. You can't make those games your "last hope" just because they "feel" important enough. They're just games, with potentially crappy designers, like all the other games. You can't let yourself be affected by PR and fanbois.

BTW, it's not the right time to say good bye to MMOs. There hasn't been good MMOs for like 2 years. But new good MMOs (who said sandbox?) are coming quite soon.

anytime i hear of a game with a pre-existing I.P. i stay away from it. too much bullshit. especialy after the swg and ngegate.

Plenty of communicating in Guild Wars. ;) I'm surprised a game which most people don't even see as an MMO actually has a 'better' community than open games. Well... 'better'... Plenty of communicating, most of the people have lost their brains though, and spam caps when they're proven wrong. :D

But still, almost every MMO has good, fun and social guilds, you just have to find them! Once you do, you'll have fun... at least for a while. In fact, my first real guild was in Guild Wars 3-4 years ago, and although we all have quit playing (I even left that guild a few years ago), we still talk to each other. We often play other games together, etc.

Originally posted by airhead

Originally posted by whisperwynd

 

hehe.... well, if I made you laugh, then I succeeded !!

I'm not sure where I said that I ENJOY the current state of affairs. Did I say that? I wasn't being ostentatious, just kind of gloomy, like Andy Rooney does on 60 minutes. But in reality, I love everybody.

And as for age, you can click my name and yes, it's correct... i'm 45. In that group that bemoans our lost youth...when life's choices are between the least painful alternatives. hehe.

But all your personal attacks and my negative commentary aside, none of it really matters. Socializing in MMOs is over and done with. Kids use facebook for that now (i got 3 and I see them doing it all the time. Granted 3 doesn't really prove it, but how many do you have to offer as a counter-argument?). There was a day when socializing and friend-making went hand in hand with subscription MMOs (UO, EQ, etc). Those days are gone. There are too many FREE ways to do that now. MMOs are turning more into games to play instead of places to make friends. That doesn't mean groups of friends will not form and do stuff together with a lot of socializing, just that it will become more and more rare, (instead of the other way around).

All pleas and actions made by people like yourself are great. Go for it! Try to make MMOs socializing activities. Plead for development companies to create more group-centered, chat-it-up activities you can do with your friends. It's a great goal.   but imo, it's just not going to happen.

The gaming industry is going a different direction, while the world is going towards socializing on FREE venues with increased character customization and a closer link to RL, ( with it's associated perception of having a better chance of getting laid, to put it frankly).

 

I apologize if you felt attacked, it was not my intention. Only to mirror those ridiculous categorizations of the age groups you made. I am 38, like my profile, and I have two sons, ages 8 & 11. No amount of text will show what kind of father I am, or whether it is "Proof" enough for you as a counter-argument as you put it.

 I agreed with someone about the lack of socializing in the newer mmo's. Never once did I say I hadn't accepted it nor will discontinue playing them for that reason. You wish to accept the way it is, fine, do so. Too many ppl have accepted the way things are, why shouldn't I be one of them?  Conform, right?

LoL, not on your life. I haven't forgotten what it means to have fought for freedom, or fight for what is right and decent, and I nevel will. The way things are....ARE because we ALLOW them to be so. If no one fought for anything, the world would be so much worse than it is now. You can pick and choose those causes you find acceptable or not, there sooo many, it matters little. Your beliefs will dictate those you'll fight for and those you'll 'ignore'.

Yes, you have to pick your battles, but this isn't one...just a forum to express one's views.  Maybe all the trolls here get me going (no, you aren't one ) that I see negative where there isn't.

No hard feelings I hope

Originally posted by whisperwynd

I apologize if you felt attacked, it was not my intention. Only to mirror those ridiculous categorizations of the age groups you made. I am 38, like my profile, and I have two sons, ages 8 & 11. No amount of text will show what kind of father I am, or whether it is "Proof" enough for you as a counter-argument as you put it.

 I agreed with someone about the lack of socializing in the newer mmo's. Never once did I say I hadn't accepted it nor will discontinue playing them for that reason. You wish to accept the way it is, fine, do so. Too many ppl have accepted the way things are, why shouldn't I be one of them?  Conform, right?

LoL, not on your life. I haven't forgotten what it means to have fought for freedom, or fight for what is right and decent, and I nevel will. The way things are....ARE because we ALLOW them to be so. If no one fought for anything, the world would be so much worse than it is now. You can pick and choose those causes you find acceptable or not, there sooo many, it matters little. Your beliefs will dictate those you'll fight for and those you'll 'ignore'.

Yes, you have to pick your battles, but this isn't one...just a forum to express one's views.  Maybe all the trolls here get me going (no, you aren't one ) that I see negative where there isn't.

No hard feelings I hope

Definitely no hard feelings.

Concerning the age categories, most comedy is based on absurdity, or some degree of it. Which makes a fine line between entertaining or offending others. I'm not that good at it, but entertainment is always my only goal.

Concerning accepting the way things are versus fighting for change, I'm reminded of a few lines from the movie Contact, (i just watched it again this past weekend)... paraphrasing...

Drummond: Ellie, I wish this was a world that valued the kind of honesty you showed at the hearing. But this just isn't that kind of world.

Ellie: funny, I thought the world was what we made it.

So yea, you are taking the hero line. That's cool. But I just think there are now too many free ways for people to socialize on the internet. 10 years ago, MMOs were chat rooms with something to do. Now there so many other free chat rooms, websites, all free... that match RL better, that I think MMOs are not really serving that purpose in society like they did 10 years ago. They are turning more into games: what can the player do? What strategies work best? How do I win this or that fight? etc. Sure, there are still family-style guilds (the kind I personally find and join if I play an MMO).... but the casual meeting, discussion, found-a-friend encounters just don't happen much anymore. sad but true imo.

Originally posted by admiralnlson

Those people who only know (or care about) the over-hyped MMOs (AoC, WAR, ...) make me laugh. You can't make those games your "last hope" just because they "feel" important enough. They're just games, with potentially crappy designers, like all the other games. You can't let yourself be affected by PR and fanbois.

BTW, it's not the right time to say good bye to MMOs. There hasn't been good MMOs for like 2 years. But new good MMOs (who said sandbox?) are coming quite soon.

I'm happy I made you laugh, really. You are so cool.

Originally posted by altairzq

My time for the QQ whine troll whatever you want to call it. My last hope was WAR, it's clear that this game is devoid of any social interaction.

MMO genre is dead.

Hello to the masses of players that don't want anything else than a single player game with guys playing around.

I will just step aside while keeping an eye for some unexpected new game, but no hope anymore.

Congratulations developers, it wasn't easy to bring a whole genre to its knees, but you have managed to. Not a small feat.

Agree 100%, the genre just sucks now. These games used to be fun when we actually had to use our brain to do things, had open worlds with no instances or zones and actually needed to group with people to accomplish anything.

RIP MMORPG's.

That's too bad altairzq. I'm sort of browsing the MMO field as well. I'm gonna play WAR until christmas. Then I figured I would give AoC a try since it should be a fairly good game by then. I might check out TCoS and Guild Wars 2 when they come out, but I'm really hoping Funcom's new dude fixes stuff up like he did with AO. To be honest...I want a game with a community. I want a game that has fun combat, whether it's PvE or PvP. I want a game that has a good story. Those are my 3 biggies. If a game doesn't have those...I just don't think I would be able to last more than a few months.

we'll see what the future holds.

Originally posted by altairzq

My time for the QQ whine troll whatever you want to call it. My last hope was WAR, it's clear that this game is devoid of any social interaction.

MMO genre is dead.

Hello to the masses of players that don't want anything else than a single player game with guys playing around.

I will just step aside while keeping an eye for some unexpected new game, but no hope anymore.

Congratulations developers, it wasn't easy to bring a whole genre to its knees, but you have managed to. Not a small feat.

Darkfall will make it!

--Sorros

Originally posted by Slythe

Originally posted by altairzq

My time for the QQ whine troll whatever you want to call it. My last hope was WAR, it's clear that this game is devoid of any social interaction.

MMO genre is dead.

Hello to the masses of players that don't want anything else than a single player game with guys playing around.

I will just step aside while keeping an eye for some unexpected new game, but no hope anymore.

Congratulations developers, it wasn't easy to bring a whole genre to its knees, but you have managed to. Not a small feat.

Agree 100%, the genre just sucks now. These games used to be fun when we actually had to use our brain to do things, had open worlds with no instances or zones and actually needed to group with people to accomplish anything.

RIP MMORPG's.

Sad but true.

WAR is mildly fun and entertaining but it is in no way like the classic epic MMO's of the past. MMO's of the past seem to be long dead, our only hope of any real MMO's are Darkfall, Fallen Earth and Earthrise.

For the last 3 or 4 years we have seen nothing but a watered down genre, sapped of its great open sandbox world into a mundane linear grindfest.

They even managed to make PvP stale. Quite a feat indeed.

War caused me to sidestep MMO's for awhile. I am actually taking up the actuall warhammer stratagy game, going to start painting models soon..

hope star trek online pans out okay or stargate worlds

between WoW:WotLK beta and WAR... I just get bored to easily with mmo's now..

hell as we speak I am installing KotOR 1 and 2

here I am .. an old-school MUD-er (Oh how I miss Sojourn!) then moved on to Meridian 59 , then EQ , EQ2, WoW, Vanguard, etc etc.... I've finally found my favorite *new* MMO, and its WAR .. What an excellent game.. The one thing that annoyed me about all past MMO's that I've played is how much everything felt like a chore even after a short amount of time, in WAR - I'm not even paying attention to my level, and i'm just having fun being immersed into the world (By far, WAR hands down, has the the best atmospheric sound effects I've ever experienced in an MMO). This game ROCKS... go buy it .. The genre is not DEAD, Warhammer just breathed quite a bit of life back into it!

The social networking stuff for the kids is all well and good, but plenty of 20-40 year olds are playing these new games and not talking in game either.  I believe the main reason that has been completely overlooked is games are no longer like the old days.  Your not buying it by yourself then joining a community of everyone in the exact same boat as you anymore.

Think what college dorm rooms were like, never an easier time in life to make new friends as being 1 of 500 people in a new situation with no friends close by.

Now days, people migrate from game to game with their set guilds, RL friends, and hell, whole families.  Talk in chat is reserved for those seeking attention and or asking questions (usually end up being flamed by those seeking attention) and therefore your average players avoid it totally while talking on VENTRILLO to their guild, RL friends, family, friends of friends, and everyone else.

Yes, i think ventrillo and other speak like functions have lowered the community as a whole, but at the same time, who didnt wish they could have it for PvP back in UO when were all using AiM or whatever it was called cant even remember anymore (icq?)

This isn't going to change, and yes, you like me will eventually have to get over the fact that hearing that 12 yo's cracking voice playing that tough barbarian warrior is completely immersion breaking or leave MMO's forever, just dont expect the communities of 10 years ago, now if you want to find the social interaction you have to LOOK and TRY for it, just like moving to a new city being single, with no friends or family rooted there. 

No more college dorms for mmo community sadly enough.

Hell today you have ppl puting together guilds years in advance....... and though i've never had success joining one that panned out to be what it was during the hype faze of developement, obviously many have or they wouldn't keep popping up for every major game in developement!

A very good point Leerix about Vent and TS pulling the chat out of the game.

MMOs NEED in game voip. They could show some action or indicator by the avatar that is speaking, which an external voip program could not do. Was it DDO or LOTRO that had in game chat? I played DDO trial, but played LOTRO to max. Even though it had in-game chat, our guild still chose to use vent, because the in-game chat didn't perform as well. ugh.

SO in-game voip, avatar indicators, and performance that is BETTER than an external program, (using different servers perhaps, but voice actions hit player server to echo out the i-am-talking indicator). or something like that. IF an MMO did that, it might seriously increase the socialization in MMOs that people here in this thread are looking for.

Originally posted by mlmw

Don't give up yet... give people a couple of days to get used to the game. I think the interaction will start to pick up once people realise that it's better if you play as a team.

Right.  10 million people play WOW that's been out for 4 years...and they haven't figured out how to play as a team.  FPSers have been out forever and people on open servers haven't learned how to play as teams.

What makes you think WAR will be different?  It won't.