Originally posted by Rabenwolf

They were not trying to add "depth", they were trying to attract more customers by mainstreaming the game. They push too much PvE with a game they built up from PvP. Further more they did not have the ability to balance the classes. Daoc was a game that revolved around who could stun who first.

Another thing you are WRONG about. Mythic aquired the license for WAR, not EA. Mythic sought out a publisher (financial backing) and distributer, they went with EA. EA, like many of the big publishers out there managed to buy out Mythic within a year. EA didnt hire Mythic, please get your facts straight.

You call it mainstreaming, I call it depth.  The same damn thing happened.  They added too much stuff, and their reasons were because player whined about not having enough PvE content or depth.  I remeber seeing the newsletters on the DAOC site.   Mark Jacobs left post stating that they added all this adventure content due to the high demand by customers for more PvE content. 

I considered artifact, scrolls, artifact weapons with levels, masters levels, and ridiculously hard trials as adding depth.  It sure as hell made things a lot more complicated. Please get the nuances of the facts straight.

Originally posted by Bladin

another sandbox player, with angst against everything else. Nothing to see here, move along.

Very true. I read your posts in another whine-troll thread yesterday and have to say, you are dead right about these sandboxers. Perhaps there are 2 main camps in this community, WoWboys - if it aint wow it sucks, and the sandboxers you refer to - if it has any form of linear content it sucks, is outdated and a rip off.

Originally posted by ManJunk

You are completely missing the concept.  The game is centered around RvR which can involve hundreds of players at a time.  There really isn't much more to be said about it.

Probably the most logical statement I have read yet about this game.

Originally posted by nikoliath

Originally posted by Bladin

another sandbox player, with angst against everything else. Nothing to see here, move along.

 

Very true. I read your posts in another whine-troll thread yesterday and have to say, you are dead right about these sandboxers. Perhaps there are 2 main camps in this community, WoWboys - if it aint wow it sucks, and the sandboxers you refer to - if it has any form of linear content it sucks, is outdated and a rip off.

 

Agreed,  stupid statements like "It looks like WoW" particualry annoy me. This forums is becoming the same as AoC again, people just moaning about every flaw in the game, just because it doesnt suit them they try wreck the game for other players. I know people have your opinions but say it once, be constructive then leave or quit the game, i cant udnerstand why you feel the need to keep coming back and reminding us.......

Originally posted by WiccanCircle

I can sum up my feelings on Warhammer - Age of Disappointment with a cockney voiced police officer motioning people away from a twitching corpse...

"Move 'long now laddies, der 'b nothin's ta see 'ere."

(though to be honest I really didn't expect this game would be for me... and I was underwhelmed even with that level of expectation.)

So what happened to RPGs?  With 'Warbummer' following in the footsteps of such classic disappointments as Age of Conan O'Brian & Pablum Rasa what is going on here?

To quell the fanbois (though they can't take any dissent from the god-worship of whichever game has yet to show up on their mother's credit card statement)

Yes, I have played both Realm factions.  Yes, I am trying most of the 'different' (and I use that word losely) character classes.  Yes, I have leveled past 10th.  Yes, I have both teamed and soloed... ad infinitum - ad nausium.

But what I have been playing is a clunky 1990's game, reminiscent of some outdated Diablo-Nintendo hybrid mutant PUG... thing.

What the hell happened to RPGs where the sandbox was deeper than what I brought in stuck on the bottom of my sandals?

 

good post. too bad rampant fanboism will keep people from looking deep enough to see what your saying. true the dev gene pool gets shallower with every generation.

Originally posted by Bladin

 

 

 

I don't have to justify my gaming history or my opinion to some butthurt sandbox gamer crying on the forums.

I read 100000 topics a day regarding sandbox games being the messiah, frankly my patience has wore out.  You people state the same crap over and over as if you were actually bring new or interesting topics up.

using those terms in a WAR thread is near criminal. enjoy  your fantasyquestfestelfparty #126

After SWG got hit by NGE, no mmo has came close.

Warhammer is a bust for any player looking for a game with complexity and skill, but good for the player who doesn't want to think too hard, and likes everyone the same.

Waiting for Darkfall

Originally posted by WiccanCircle

I can sum up my feelings on Warhammer - Age of Disappointment with a cockney voiced police officer motioning people away from a twitching corpse...

"Move 'long now laddies, der 'b nothin's ta see 'ere."

(though to be honest I really didn't expect this game would be for me... and I was underwhelmed even with that level of expectation.)

So what happened to RPGs?  With 'Warbummer' following in the footsteps of such classic disappointments as Age of Conan O'Brian & Pablum Rasa what is going on here?

To quell the fanbois (though they can't take any dissent from the god-worship of whichever game has yet to show up on their mother's credit card statement)

Yes, I have played both Realm factions.  Yes, I am trying most of the 'different' (and I use that word losely) character classes.  Yes, I have leveled past 10th.  Yes, I have both teamed and soloed... ad infinitum - ad nausium.

But what I have been playing is a clunky 1990's game, reminiscent of some outdated Diablo-Nintendo hybrid mutant PUG... thing.

What the hell happened to RPGs where the sandbox was deeper than what I brought in stuck on the bottom of my sandals?

 

Well, it all depends on what you mean by RPGs. Sandbox styled games isn't really the only way to take for an RPG. But I do agree with you that WAR is more like Doom then neverwinter nights, the rpg feeling isn't really there. On the other hand that's not what Mythic where trying to do either, just because a game doesn't really aim for you doesn't mean it is bad. WAR is more like an FPS than a classic MMORPG.

More game which are more focused on the RPG stuff will turn up, like Spellborn and Guildwars 2... The first GW did have some beutiful campaigns with a good RPG feeling even though it was really far from sandbox. RPG means intresting characters, a good story, ways to interact with everything around you.

I would have loved to see a Neverwinter nights online (Based on the bioware game, not the lousy Atari sequel), that would be a good MMORPG :)

Ok so the OP didn't like WAR. No big deal and life goes on but seriously, the diehards really need to lighten up just because everyone is not liking the game. I like the game. The RVR is alot of fun, the pqs are alot of fun at the moment but I'm not getting all giddy over the game. It's nothing epic. Yeah there will be some raids at end game but once you reach RR 40 it becomes nothing more than grinding for pvp ranks and tome unlocks. Yup I mentoned GRIND, the one word so many pvers do that get criticized for liking. Now the pvpers geta a chance to grind for renown ranks all day. Yup, WAR is a fun game right now but clearly there will be better and more epic games such as Diablo 3 and KOTOR Online heading our way.

Originally posted by ProfRed

 Well it's weird but after installed the discs, or after the 4 hour downtime this morning, the game got much more stable for me.  I had more people on screen in WAR than i've had in any MMO short of some crazy events and it ran smooth.  I think they have done a great job with scaling whatever they scale.  Server inbalance could be an issue but I have a feeling if it gets too bad on a server Mythic will think of something to help it.  I enjoy overcoming the odds anyway, but yeah these are valid concerns.

Are you having trouble in RvR with your machine?  I think this is the best MMO for massive battles I have ever played short of FFXI, but in FFXI it just stops rendering characters so if there are 500 around you you only see 20 or 30. 

I agree.  When was the last time that Stability wasn't one of the HUGE issues on a launch?   Ummm, I can't think of any actually.  (That isn't a totally 'good' thing either, it simply means that War is a dumbed down game to be very stable on five year old... or worse, machines.)

I know they made the choice to do this... and it sort of worked.  War didn't try to break any new ground in any way excrpt they promise that we can have large RvR battles.  (For this we will have to wait and see)  The characters creator is hum-drum, graphics are poor, sound is uninspiring, spell/skill selections are a throwback to something out of the late 20th century...

Well, it is a bland unispiring game... but at least it would run well on my toaster oven 

Originally posted by Bladin

{Snip}

I don't have to justify my gaming history or my opinion to some butthurt sandbox gamer crying on the forums.

I read 100000 topics a day regarding sandbox games being the messiah, frankly my patience has wore out.  You people state the same crap over and over as if you were actually bring new or interesting topics up.

It is a shame the Mod edited my reply because it would have stopped some of your attacks on everyone else too.

Your gaming experience is minimal, period.

If you don't understand more complex games it is because you have simply not been playing games, any of them, for very long.  Sandboxes, as you rant on and on against, were never something that you played because you were a little boy at the time they came out.  And little boys tend not to go backward to play games that were already released.

People that have played more complex games want MORE in todays games as well.  Children that never saw those games and grew up with their gaming umbilical cord strung across the floor to a TV are terrified of any deep water in gaming.

I would LOVE to see a combination of the two (yes yes Darkfall blah blah blah... I still am on record saying that Darkfall is the Piltdown Man of games.  Somewhere there are a bunch of pranksters laughing that they have conned a decade of people in to believing in this mythical creature called 'Darkfall'  ... beta or not, I still believe it is a Hoax.)

"Fast" team oriented game play  - ala City of Heroes... Plus PvP and RvR worlds - taken from perhaps War would be a start, But with the depth and complexity of an Asheron's Call spell system and skill systems would create a Great game.  But the nintendo whiners soak their carpets every time anyone calls for more depth in a game than Diablo.

It doesn't have to be one or the other.  Tap-tap-tap  gaming industry people, Are you listening?

The answer is very simple.

Warhammer lacks a world.

A world you live in. Not a world you die in 55 times a day (or more) to "level".

Game is not an MMORPG and this has nothing to do with "lineair" or "sandbox".

It's a simple (very simple) MMO combat PC game. Not an MMORPG.

The only challenge in WAR will be HOW many idiots would want to pay to play after the free month playing.

Attrition will be HUGE. No doubt about that.

Hey Mythic !!! People actually want to be IN a world they adventure in, they already have ENOUGH on line combat games (with FAR more better graphics btw) and these are FREE !

You OP, are my Hero.

/Salute

Dont need to comment on what you have written but I will say I am impressed how well you write for a 7 year old kid.

This is the post that never ends, it just goes on and on my friends. Some started reading it not knowing what was, and they will contine reading it forever just because! This post never ends........

Originally posted by bodypass

The answer is very simple.

Warhammer lacks a world.

A world you live in. Not a world you die in 55 times a day (or more) to "level".

Game is not an MMORPG and this has nothing to do with "lineair" or "sandbox".

It's a simple (very simple) MMO combat PC game. Not an MMORPG.

The only challenge in WAR will be HOW many idiots would want to pay to play after the free month playing.

Attrition will be HUGE. No doubt about that.

Hey Mythic !!! People actually want to be IN a world they adventure in, they already have ENOUGH on line combat games (with FAR more better graphics btw) and these are FREE !

 

 

 

Wow, more stupid complaints. We have some delusional people on these boards. The tiers make the game feel more like an MMORPG to me rather than running around a gigantic world unable to find meeting spots to PvP in.

Originally posted by WiccanCircle

Originally posted by Bladin

{Snip}

I don't have to justify my gaming history or my opinion to some butthurt sandbox gamer crying on the forums.

I read 100000 topics a day regarding sandbox games being the messiah, frankly my patience has wore out.  You people state the same crap over and over as if you were actually bring new or interesting topics up.

 

It is a shame the Mod edited my reply because it would have stopped some of your attacks on everyone else too.

Your gaming experience is minimal, period.

If you don't understand more complex games it is because you have simply not been playing games, any of them, for very long.  Sandboxes, as you rant on and on against, were never something that you played because you were a little boy at the time they came out.  And little boys tend not to go backward to play games that were already released.

People that have played more complex games want MORE in todays games as well.  Children that never saw those games and grew up with their gaming umbilical cord strung across the floor to a TV are terrified of any deep water in gaming.

I would LOVE to see a combination of the two (yes yes Darkfall blah blah blah... I still am on record saying that Darkfall is the Piltdown Man of games.  Somewhere there are a bunch of pranksters laughing that they have conned a decade of people in to believing in this mythical creature called 'Darkfall'  ... beta or not, I still believe it is a Hoax.)

"Fast" team oriented game play  - ala City of Heroes... Plus PvP and RvR worlds - taken from perhaps War would be a start, But with the depth and complexity of an Asheron's Call spell system and skill systems would create a Great game.  But the nintendo whiners soak their carpets every time anyone calls for more depth in a game than Diablo.

It doesn't have to be one or the other.  Tap-tap-tap  gaming industry people, Are you listening?

Again another butthurt response.  Listen.  I never said anything negative about sandbox games.  It's the players that annoy me.

In fact my "ideal" mmorpg IS a sandbox. Like ZOMG.

just to go back into a earlier post of mine

"Your guild raids another town, your guild and it's members are pillagers and your reputation will remain so forever. You can't go grind some mobs to undo it. You can't change guilds and escape your reputation.

Have situations where if you kill someone in sight of a guard, you become wanted and hated in the city forever. If someone escapes your ganking attempt and reports you to a guard, the same situation occurs, heck perhaps even if your seen by ANY other players they can report you as well(perhaps you get a list and icons appear over witness' heads,) If you can't clean up the situation then your going

Have options to sneak into towns, and avoid guards.

Prisons.

War between countries where perhaps a country could be perminantly destroyed off the server.

Guilds building up a city that grows in size and members, and reputation and eventually becomes a force to reckon with for the other real nations, forming alliances that all share a part in the town. Heck even becoming the capital city in perhaps a entire country. Not just "XXXXXXXX's guild city.

This is the pvp i want.

I don't want random ganking while someones mining just because you get your kicks from it. Killing him for his resources, and then having to kill witness'. Miner's for example find a cave(perhaps they spawn randomly under the ground when excavagating. then a guild sends in a team to mine it quickly, while guards are posted in the cave and around the cave."

I'm all up for sandbox's as long as they are truely involved and deep systems to encourage meaningful pvp, discouraging random ganking, and bring in guild vs guild conflicts, and major systems in the game that basically allow the playerbase to affect a server enough that each server of the game vary drastically with how they are after a couple years.

But the thing is, I don't get butthurt over it.  I don't troll every game coming out for not being what I really want.

You see, beyond just this, I actually like having fun in games.  And I'll play a game that's fun.  I won't ask a game to be something it's not, and i won't bash it for being something its not.

I have the same issue with open sandbox fans, eve fans, and darkfall fans.  They all hold the holier than thou, my game choices are better, and I'm a more mature player for liking these types of games.

I generally don't go into discussions anymore, since even if I did write out a essay about the topic, you wouldn't even read it.  You wouldn't take it to heart.  You would either just skip over it, or pretend you didn't read it, and continue on with your posts.

What is ZOMG, looked on the games list could not find it?

Originally posted by Bladin

Originally posted by WiccanCircle

Originally posted by Bladin

{Snip}

I don't have to justify my gaming history or my opinion to some butthurt sandbox gamer crying on the forums.

I read 100000 topics a day regarding sandbox games being the messiah, frankly my patience has wore out.  You people state the same crap over and over as if you were actually bring new or interesting topics up.

 

It is a shame the Mod edited my reply because it would have stopped some of your attacks on everyone else too.

Your gaming experience is minimal, period.

If you don't understand more complex games it is because you have simply not been playing games, any of them, for very long.  Sandboxes, as you rant on and on against, were never something that you played because you were a little boy at the time they came out.  And little boys tend not to go backward to play games that were already released.

People that have played more complex games want MORE in todays games as well.  Children that never saw those games and grew up with their gaming umbilical cord strung across the floor to a TV are terrified of any deep water in gaming.

I would LOVE to see a combination of the two (yes yes Darkfall blah blah blah... I still am on record saying that Darkfall is the Piltdown Man of games.  Somewhere there are a bunch of pranksters laughing that they have conned a decade of people in to believing in this mythical creature called 'Darkfall'  ... beta or not, I still believe it is a Hoax.)

"Fast" team oriented game play  - ala City of Heroes... Plus PvP and RvR worlds - taken from perhaps War would be a start, But with the depth and complexity of an Asheron's Call spell system and skill systems would create a Great game.  But the nintendo whiners soak their carpets every time anyone calls for more depth in a game than Diablo.

It doesn't have to be one or the other.  Tap-tap-tap  gaming industry people, Are you listening?

Again another butthurt response.  Listen.  I never said anything negative about sandbox games.  It's the players that annoy me.

In fact my "ideal" mmorpg IS a sandbox. Like ZOMG.

just to go back into a earlier post of mine

"Your guild raids another town, your guild and it's members are pillagers and your reputation will remain so forever. You can't go grind some mobs to undo it. You can't change guilds and escape your reputation.

Have situations where if you kill someone in sight of a guard, you become wanted and hated in the city forever. If someone escapes your ganking attempt and reports you to a guard, the same situation occurs, heck perhaps even if your seen by ANY other players they can report you as well(perhaps you get a list and icons appear over witness' heads,) If you can't clean up the situation then your going

Have options to sneak into towns, and avoid guards.

Prisons.

War between countries where perhaps a country could be perminantly destroyed off the server.

Guilds building up a city that grows in size and members, and reputation and eventually becomes a force to reckon with for the other real nations, forming alliances that all share a part in the town. Heck even becoming the capital city in perhaps a entire country. Not just "XXXXXXXX's guild city.

 

This is the pvp i want.

I don't want random ganking while someones mining just because you get your kicks from it. Killing him for his resources, and then having to kill witness'. Miner's for example find a cave(perhaps they spawn randomly under the ground when excavagating. then a guild sends in a team to mine it quickly, while guards are posted in the cave and around the cave."

I'm all up for sandbox's as long as they are truely involved and deep systems to encourage meaningful pvp, discouraging random ganking, and bring in guild vs guild conflicts, and major systems in the game that basically allow the playerbase to affect a server enough that each server of the game vary drastically with how they are after a couple years.

But the thing is, I don't get butthurt over it.  I don't troll every game coming out for not being what I really want.

You see, beyond just this, I actually like having fun in games.  And I'll play a game that's fun.  I won't ask a game to be something it's not, and i won't bash it for being something its not.

 

I have the same issue with open sandbox fans, eve fans, and darkfall fans.  They all hold the holier than thou, my game choices are better, and I'm a more mature player for liking these types of games.

I generally don't go into discussions anymore, since even if I did write out a essay about the topic, you wouldn't even read it.  You wouldn't take it to heart.  You would either just skip over it, or pretend you didn't read it, and continue on with your posts.

Dude, you rock. Seriously. Open mindedness, ftw! I am the same way. Sure, I have a particular image in my mind of what the perfect MMO or computer game should be. But, just because some developer couldn't read my mind, doesn't mean I'm going to hate on every new game that comes out. If the game can stand on it's own for what it is...and is fun, I'll play it. Nuff said.

Originally posted by JonnyBigBoss

Originally posted by bodypass

The answer is very simple.

Warhammer lacks a world.

A world you live in. Not a world you die in 55 times a day (or more) to "level".

Game is not an MMORPG and this has nothing to do with "lineair" or "sandbox".

It's a simple (very simple) MMO combat PC game. Not an MMORPG.

The only challenge in WAR will be HOW many idiots would want to pay to play after the free month playing.

Attrition will be HUGE. No doubt about that.

Hey Mythic !!! People actually want to be IN a world they adventure in, they already have ENOUGH on line combat games (with FAR more better graphics btw) and these are FREE !

 

 

 

 

Wow, more stupid complaints. We have some delusional people on these boards. The tiers make the game feel more like an MMORPG to me rather than running around a gigantic world unable to find meeting spots to PvP in.

Since JonnyBigBoss can't read more than one sentence at a time ... i'll repeat my last sentence:
 

Hey Mythic !!! People actually want to be IN a world they adventure (and live) in, they already have ENOUGH on line combat games (with FAR more better graphics btw) and these are FREE !