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Just wondering what the general MMO player base prefers. A real time system where you are able to actually aim your spells and swings, or a target + click ability type of system? Of course a lot of this depends on how it is implemented, but in a perfect world with perfect combat systems, which do you find the most fun? Why?
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Sadly, voting doesnt bump the thread :( |
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For me, real time requires way to much in depth thinking. I play MMO's to chat and occationally light stuff on fire (yes, I usually play caster classes). Also, when it comes to balancing how the melee combat works of real time combat systems with casting combat, it usually ends up badly unbalanced (just look at AoC, well the good parts of AoC (yes there are a few)).
Point and click makes things; Fast, simple, and flow easily. It also can have the same amount of depth as a real time combat system if the user puts their minds to it. Yet is allows those of us with less of an attention span to still compete |
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daarco
 Hard Core Member
Joined: 12/19/06
I have Darkfall now! |
Real time. But i agree with Quake, i dont want a MMO to become CoD4. Real time combat can still be simple and relaxed. As in WWII Online : ) |
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For real "massive" games "real time" targeting is very bad choice. Net lag or gfx lag (with 100 people on screen) can make game unplayable. And person with best connection always wins. This system exclude people with higher pings. It can work in FPS or mmo that really aren't "massive" and you can't see more then 50 people at once on screen, but not for real mmo games. |
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Thanks for the replies. Me and some buddies have started a software project that will hopefully turn out to be an MMO. Trying to get data like this from the public is difficult, but very valuable when making gamebreaking decisions. |
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After playing the real time combat system in DDO I could never go back to that yawn-fest that is target and click combat. Pull a Mob and target it, hit auto attack and maybe a hotbar button, check your e-mail while waiting for a power or ability to recharge, hit a hotbar button, go grab a beer while waiting for it to recharge, hit the button again, go make a sandwich....... ect., ect., ect. Personally I play games period to have fun, if I want slow paced combat I go play a turn-based RPG. |
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RPG Combat = No Skill Needed
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I like real turn-based combat, like it Atlantica. Done right, turn-based combats require the most strategy, while twitch-systems rely on mouse-fu. Which isn't a display of anything but reflex training. More of real-turn based, please. Classic MMO combat, real-time-with-refresh, is okay. Some is done better than others. It's the standard, so I'm used to it. Oh, and its NOT TURN BASED! Turn-based purists know this. Twitch combat: as far as I'm concerned, save it for when I play games like Grand Theft Auto. It works there.
Prinny Squad! |
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Target based for sure. I want time to chat and have some fun. I don't want to play an MMO FPS. |
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Originally posted by lkavadas
You're pretty wrong on that. You usually need to put a lot more thoughts in (and cooperate in) Target Based combat than you do in RT combat. |
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I prefer real time combat, but if its well thought out I dont mind RPG combat. By well thought out I mean either very stragetic, or a mix between action packed and strategy. The key thing for me with combat is that its engaging and fluid, if its really slow paced or feels sluggish like for instance LOTRO felt to me, then I just get put off by it. |
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Originally posted by Waterlily
You're pretty wrong on that. You usually need to put a lot more thoughts in (and cooperate in) Target Based combat than you do in RT combat.
No, I'm not wrong. RPG combat is nothing but stat calcing and cooldown monitoring. There's dick else to it. Oh wow, you apply a few states, maybe one depends on another so you have to sequence it, look at a few bars... yeah, really difficult. Plus let's face it, RPG combat is 10% player, 90% equipment. RPG combat takes less skill than literally any other form of combat system. Not to mention movement and cover usually play no role at all in any RPG combat system which removes simple and complex squad manuver tactics. RPG combat is a joke. I hate it.
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Originally posted by lkavadas
No, I'm not wrong. RPG combat is nothing but stat calcing and cooldown monitoring. There's dick else to it. Oh wow, you apply a few states, maybe one depends on another so you have to sequence it, look at a few bars... yeah, really difficult. Plus let's face it, RPG combat is 10% player, 90% equipment. RPG combat takes less skill than literally any other form of combat system. Not to mention movement and cover usually play no role at all in any RPG combat system which removes simple and complex squad manuver tactics. RPG combat is a joke. I hate it.
I disagree. I prefer RT, but WoW-Style combat still requires quite a bit of skill, at least in PVP. You need to know when and where to move, and you have to be able to react very quickly to what your opponent is doing, using just the right attack or response for the situation. ____________________________________________ |
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Real time for me! |
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I think the simplest solution to this is to offer options. When I say options I don't mean in the same game, they don't have to be all alike and all inclusive. LIfe is not fair. What I mean is that we need more games, perhaps all part of the same genre with different mechanics. Difference does not necessaraly make anything better or worse, it makes it different and often interesting. This is one of the reasons I think the MMO Genre as a whole is stale because nobody wants to broaden it anymore. They are perfectly content with one formula and will milk it till it's dry and about to die. Only then will they ever do anything different. When it comes to my tastes, I have a blace for both the real time combat and the target + hit skills as they light up. The real time combat would allow me to use my personal ability to over come a challenge. It would allow me to perhaps negate the other persons equipment because of my tactics or the ability to think on the run and act according to the circumstances. On the other hand the target and hit skills is good for those times when you just want to wind down and have time between fights to talk to people you're grouped with or that might be in the vicinity. After all I'm still a firm believer that the MMO is at it's core still a social experience and if I don't take advantage of it I might as well just go outside. There's a time and place for everything. Just because you hate it does not mean it should die a horrible death. Once upon a midnight dreary, while I porn surfed, weak and weary, over many a strange and spurious site of 'hot xxx galore'. While I clicked my fav'rite bookmark, suddenly there came a warning, and my heart was filled with mourning, mourning for my dear amour, " 'Tis not possible!", I muttered, " give me back my free hardcore!"..... quoth the server, "404." |
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Originally posted by rikilii
Yeah, none of the above requires any skill. Let's breakdown stereotypical RPG combat systems. You have a few specials. Maybe a few consummables to burn. When an engagement starts usually the first phase is state application (on yourself or your target). Because of RPG mechanics you don't need to actually aim at anything. Just click or tab. You don't need to worry about movement at all. Cover doesn't exist. Teamwork consists of nothing more than ganging up on a target while other classes keep their DPS/Tanks up and going. Wow, it's soooo difficult to sit there and watch little icons flash and appear under a HAM bar. Lame. ZOMG, the guy just "Crippling Slashed" me! I need to stop the bleed and clear the snare! Whoo, real skill there. And since 99.9% of all MMOs use some lame ass class system it's not like you really have any choice in your capabilities and are pretty much forced to play the game the way the devs want you to. You can't be even remotely creative. RPG combat, by and large, is a system catering to truly skill-less gamers who can't operate a mouse or a keyboard. Who can't coordinate complex, or even simple infantry/armor maneuvers over Vent/TS. Or those who can't and don't understand the differences between cover and concealment. Now, yes, I am being overly harsh on RPG combat systems here and no, I'm not some rabid FPSer either (though I do enjoy the good ones). But I just find literally all RPG combat to be boring as hell, stupidly simplistic in every way, and not require even a drop of thought or actual skill.
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target based if you implement the right stuff IE guildwars is a good base to build on. Most other things are pretty much kinda meh. I find it amazing the developers who have never even been in a fist fight, or designing fighting mechanics. |
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Originally posted by lkavadas
You talk like someone who hasn't played an MMO for 3 years, cuz that's the last time any game had a HAM bar. If you're entire MMO experience came from SWG, I can understand what your saying. Target, kite, spam HS3/Dizzy-KD/Mind area poison. To win in PVP in other MMOs, WoW for instance, you need to juggle at least the following: 1. different strategies for fighting about 24 different builds 2. LOS 3. Dead space 4. optimizing Trinket cooldown 5. mana 6. down-ranking 7. facing target 8. stances/aspects/forms 9. consumable cooldowns 10. CC
In an FPS, it's: 1. Put X over enemy's head. 2. Press MB1. 3. Boom, HEADSHOT! ____________________________________________ |
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No option for AOE combat? I prefer a system where my enemies die simply from getting to close to the aura of pure evil that surrounds me. |
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A couple of years ago I'd have said free firing. But now I say it doesn't matter. As long as the game doesn't have goofy restrictions such as no-perching and anti-kiting mechanisms or the inability to target nothing but a location (like in Tabula Rasa / Hellgate London, which still relied on die rolls behind the scenes)and attack empty air if I want I'm all set. Games I'm waiting for: |
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I agree. It really would be good to have different games with different combat mechanics to cater to a variety of players. Neither is inherently better or worse just more preferable to different individuals tastes. Games I'm waiting for: |
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Originally posted by rikilii
You talk like someone who hasn't played an MMO for 3 years, cuz that's the last time any game had a HAM bar. If you're entire MMO experience came from SWG, I can understand what your saying. Target, kite, spam HS3/Dizzy-KD/Mind area poison.
Why don't you try readin' dem dere acronyms unduh muh name. Any look "fermillular?" The only MMO with a halfway decent combat system is Tabula Rasa but it failed with it's retarded target locking feature. If they had just kept it manual soft aiming like in beta it would have been a ton better.
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Originally posted by rikilii
No, I'm not wrong. RPG combat is nothing but stat calcing and cooldown monitoring. There's dick else to it. Oh wow, you apply a few states, maybe one depends on another so you have to sequence it, look at a few bars... yeah, really difficult. Plus let's face it, RPG combat is 10% player, 90% equipment. RPG combat takes less skill than literally any other form of combat system. Not to mention movement and cover usually play no role at all in any RPG combat system which removes simple and complex squad manuver tactics. RPG combat is a joke. I hate it.
I disagree. I prefer RT, but WoW-Style combat still requires quite a bit of skill, at least in PVP. You need to know when and where to move, and you have to be able to react very quickly to what your opponent is doing, using just the right attack or response for the situation. Really in that case though all you are actually doing is playing a version of Rock-Paper-Scissors with different graphics, slightly more complicated as there are more than 3 choices but not much more. |
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Originally posted by Hvymetal
I disagree. I prefer RT, but WoW-Style combat still requires quite a bit of skill, at least in PVP. You need to know when and where to move, and you have to be able to react very quickly to what your opponent is doing, using just the right attack or response for the situation. Really in that case though all you are actually doing is playing a version of Rock-Paper-Scissors with different graphics, slightly more complicated as there are more than 3 choices but not much more.
Even if it were limited to 3 choices (and it's not), that would make it 2 more choices than most FPS combat: 1. Point/click. ____________________________________________ |
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