Originally posted by lumache

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Lelob

 Why is it that both casters and melee use stamina to sprint but only melee use stamina for combos?

Because your wrong, all casters use stamina for spells as well. You said you played a necromancer, you should know this.
The rest of your post, you are just really really bad at the combat in AOC.
Also, most of what you are talking about in your post is:

1: Old info
2: Incorrect
3: Exactly what we were taking about, you approached it as if its typical MMO combat, its not, you got pawned.

 

 

 First off you got pawned too Mr Bloodsworth, as you bought the game and are playing it! I mean thats total pawnage, given the state of this hunk of crap!

Lelob is correct on the most important part here : AOC is a total disaster.  I mean when a guy is right - hes right.

I canceled quite a while ago.

AOC is only a total disaster if Wow was your first MMO, or you have never seen a launch of one before.

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Lelob

 Why is it that both casters and melee use stamina to sprint but only melee use stamina for combos?

Because your wrong, all casters use stamina for spells as well. You said you played a necromancer, you should know this.
The rest of your post, you are just really really bad at the combat in AOC.
Also, most of what you are talking about in your post is:

1: Old info
2: Incorrect
3: Exactly what we were taking about, you approached it as if its typical MMO combat, its not, you got pawned.

 

 

So this is a change they put in? My POM never used stamina which is why so many mele bitched about casters.

More or Less every Game produced after 1999 have bad graphics,.. why? because nothing is more realistic than Full motion Video (FMV) and those games isnt produced anymore.. i think the last one made whas Tex murphy overseer... i really want more of those old "more realistic, and better graphics, than any games today"  games back.. but this time in HD

Originally posted by Lelob

What an absolute load of baloney from start to finish. Again you say I 'fail as a player' because I dont know anything about it. What did I not know about it? What have I not mentioned in my posts? What amazing thing about AOC pvp have I missed?

Nothing. I have mentioned the parts of it that are worth mentioning, yet again you just babble on that I dont have a clue. Im afraid that it is you that doesn't have a clue.

This is getting ridiculous. Yes, indeed, you don't have a clue.

What you have missed? You have missed 50% of the combat system. You have missed one of the most important aspects of the combat system (1 half of it). You have missed the basics and the foundation of this newer/improved/different combat system. You haven't even seen that it was there and you still don't see it. Sorry, I can't help you, obviously this is completely over your head; you are going into this like WoW, but this isn't WoW.

I am talking about things like positional attack, defense and positional damage, but you are only talking about stamina bars and issues the game had at launch and 2 month ago when you played, completely neglecting things that have been fixed since then. Here is a scoop for you : mmos launch with bugs, balancing issues and problems, and they get patched regularly to fix bugs, to change and to improve.

Anyway, you didn't understand and you didn't even see the basic features of the combat system; I can understand your frustration. I would be frustrated as well, playing this like WoW.

And once again for you, since it seems you are having difficulties reading what I am writing: yes AoC is not perfect, it still has problems, but it is improving nicely.

---

I actually think that Godager probably played WAR beta and realised, at that point, just how much of a disaster his own game was and is compared with the competition.

---

kill him lol if AoC its a disaster at lunch than warhammer its pretty pretty over hyped

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Lelob

 Why is it that both casters and melee use stamina to sprint but only melee use stamina for combos?

Because your wrong, all casters use stamina for spells as well. You said you played a necromancer, you should know this.
The rest of your post, you are just really really bad at the combat in AOC.
Also, most of what you are talking about in your post is:

1: Old info
2: Incorrect
3: Exactly what we were taking about, you approached it as if its typical MMO combat, its not, you got pawned.

 

 

Oh my word. Please read the posts before you start spewing nonsense all over my screen. Of course its old info for crying out loud. I state repeatedly that my knowledge of AOC is based loosely on my time playing it which ended about 7 weeks after it was released. That's the point however. WAR, in open beta, didnt have any major aspects of the game missing and is astoundingly detailed for a game only officially released yesterday. AOC on the other hand only just implemented its PVP system yesterday and its been out for 4 months!

So dont give me nonsense about being 'pawned'. You just 'pawned' yourself by failing to read what I had written.

As to Necros using stamina for their spells. They do use stamina for 1 or 2 spells but the other 20/30 require mana only. I cant remember the details on it... I think Life drain/blast or something required stamina to cast, but that's pretty much it. So stop peddling falsehoods - youre full of it. One spell does not render my argument invalid.

Originally posted by Lelob

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Lelob

 Why is it that both casters and melee use stamina to sprint but only melee use stamina for combos?

Because your wrong, all casters use stamina for spells as well. You said you played a necromancer, you should know this.
The rest of your post, you are just really really bad at the combat in AOC.
Also, most of what you are talking about in your post is:

1: Old info
2: Incorrect
3: Exactly what we were taking about, you approached it as if its typical MMO combat, its not, you got pawned.

 

 

 

Oh my word. Please read the posts before you start spewing nonsense all over my screen. Of course its old info for crying out loud. I state repeatedly that my knowledge of AOC is based loosely on my time playing it which ended about 7 weeks after it was released. That's the point however. WAR, in open beta, didnt have any major aspects of the game missing and is astoundingly detailed for a game only officially released yesterday. AOC on the other hand only just implemented its PVP system yesterday and its been out for 4 months!

So dont give me nonsense about being 'pawned'. You just 'pawned' yourself by failing to read what I had written.

As to Necros using stamina for their spells. They do use stamina for 1 or 2 spells but the other 20/30 require mana only. I cant remember the details on it... I think Life drain/blast or something required stamina to cast, but that's pretty much it. So stop peddling falsehoods - youre full of it. One spell does not render my argument invalid.

That spell barely drains any stamina too.  I'm really confused as to what he's trying to argue. Spell Weaving maybe? (lol)
 

Originally posted by TheSheikh

Well, this is the second page of posts and no one has said it..... so.....

This game is in open beta and there are no High Res Textures, AA (anti-aliasing), final lighting, and so on.

"That new car is ugly, it has no paint, rims, or windows!!!!!"

"Yes..... that is because we are in the automobile factory....."

 

And now this game is released (we're talking about WAR here) and all of the above still applies.

I forced AA via my gfx card, and a few other little touches, as well....and it's still not really wonderful.

We have to consider though, that if you're comparing WAR to AoC graphically....AoC is DX10...WAR, is not, although for some reason I thought it was going to be.  I don't know where I got that idea, but....oh well.

I'm just making this comment though, because the thread is about graphics.  For me....graphics don't ENTIRELY dictate my enjoyment of a game.  However....there is an immersiveness lacking for me in WAR, that I can't quite put my finger on.  For me....it feels like...well...a game.  The fighting feels like...."I'm playing a game and I'm fighting against other players."  This has bothered me since the preview weekend and on.  I just can't seem to "FEEL" this game, and I seriously do NOT know why.  The environments just don't feel very immersive.

I haven't tried AoC yet.

Originally posted by BigMango

Originally posted by Lelob

What an absolute load of baloney from start to finish. Again you say I 'fail as a player' because I dont know anything about it. What did I not know about it? What have I not mentioned in my posts? What amazing thing about AOC pvp have I missed?

Nothing. I have mentioned the parts of it that are worth mentioning, yet again you just babble on that I dont have a clue. Im afraid that it is you that doesn't have a clue.

 

This is getting ridiculous. Yes, indeed, you don't have a clue.

What you have missed? You have missed 50% of the combat system. You have missed one of the most important aspects of the combat system (1 half of it). You have missed the basics and the foundation of this newer/improved/different combat system. You haven't even seen that it was there and you still don't see it. Sorry, I can't help you, obviously this is completely over your head; you are going into this like WoW, but this isn't WoW.

I am talking about things like positional attack, defense and positional damage, but you are only talking about stamina bars and issues the game had at launch and 2 month ago when you played, completely neglecting things that have been fixed since then. Here is a scoop for you : mmos launch with bugs, balancing issues and problems, and they get patched regularly to fix bugs, to change and to improve.

Anyway, you didn't understand and you didn't even see the basic features of the combat system; I can understand your frustration. I would be frustrated as well, playing this like WoW.

And once again for you, since it seems you are having difficulties reading what I am writing: yes AoC is not perfect, it still has problems, but it is improving nicely.

 

I never claimed to be talking about AOC in its current state. I was always careful to predicate any comment with a reference to the fact that I stopped playing 7/8 weeks after release, mainly because it was a load of shite.

Funnily enough I did pretty well in AOC pvp, but I was always aware that my wins and losses were regularly the direct result of the inadequacies of the system. My necro would annihilate melees with consumate ease yet he would be fried by Demos. My templar could compete with melees but would get totally and absolutely owned by casters who weren't asleep at the keyboard. I was never fooled into thinking I was a pvp God by the fact that my necro could murder level 80 Dark Tempars when he was level 55 however. For a game that had so many glaring and obscene flaws I didnt delude myself into thinking that although they fucked most of the rest of the game up, they actually got PVP absolutely spot on. The evidence simply said otherwise.

One thing I will definitely agree on with a few posters here is that the WOW generation really shouldnt ever look at things through the lense of WOW. I mean, like how shallow is it for people to expect the sort of service and competence that Blizzard usually deliver? Like these people must be a crowd of retards to think like that. MMOs should be shit on release, everyone knows that. All the game mechanics should be cobbled together with sticky tape, or just cut out completely to be added in later. These arrogant WOW players should simply take their standards and realise that in the game-playing leisure scene of MMOs there is NO PAIN NO GAIN! People should take every bucket of feces that is thrown their way and at least have the good grace not to complain or criticise, because as we all know, shit miraculously turns to gold in the tipsy topsy world of Funcom MMOs.

At least we know that it looks like Blizzard are not the only developers who have the nous, intelligence and craft to deliver a good game that is actually polished and enjoyable prior to release, as Mythic have pretty much nailed it with WAR aswell and Im delighted to be enjoying the fruits of these clever people's labour.

If however, its all suddenly changed and AOC is now the be all and end all of MMO pvp then fucking fantastic. Im delighted for the developers (those that havent resigned or been sacked) and all the flagellants who paid them for a beta test. But I highly doubt it.

Originally posted by Lelob

One thing I will definitely agree on with a few posters here is that the WOW generation really shouldnt ever look at things through the lense of WOW. I mean, like how shallow is it for people to expect the sort of service and competence that Blizzard usually deliver? Like these people must be a crowd of retards to think like that. MMOs should be shit on release, everyone knows that. All the game mechanics should be cobbled together with sticky tape, or just cut out completely to be added in later. These arrogant WOW players should simply take their standards and realise that in the game-playing leisure scene of MMOs there is NO PAIN NO GAIN! People should take every bucket of feces that is thrown their way and at least have the good grace not to complain or criticise, because as we all know, shit miraculously turns to gold in the tipsy topsy world of Funcom MMOs.

At least we know that it looks like Blizzard are not the only developers who have the nous, intelligence and craft to deliver a good game that is actually polished and enjoyable prior to release, as Mythic have pretty much nailed it with WAR aswell and Im delighted to be enjoying the fruits of these clever people's labour.

Now, of course you are right. I think most of the people here will agree with you on these points

Funcom have launched an unfinished product. They have mislead and in several cases blatantly lied to their customers. I was as frustrated as everyone else and, before re-subbing 1 week ago, I haven't subscribed to the game after my first 30 days went out 3 months ago. There is no excuse for what they did, and I think we can all agree with this.

And of course kudos to Mythic for releasing a 99% polished game.

That said, AoC now seems to be moving in the right direction and currently I am having more fun in AoC than I had in WAR. I am not saying WAR is a bad game, its just that it wasn't what I was looking for.

I know 3 people who have gone back to AoC after playing WAR.. they say the game SUCKS

Originally posted by Imjin

 

AmazingAOCAVERY

You do realize that mabs used to hit you through walls in AOC. God only knows if thats fixed.

Once more as a helpful suggestion you are on very thin ice inside of a thin glass house. Be careful where you step before throwing those nonsensical stones.

 

Edited for lack of who i was talking to.

You want me to say AoC didn't have similar bugs? Course it did, and I know for a fact warhammer is suffering the same thing from first hand experience.

Of course the only way to know if its fixed in AoC is to play it now or ask God yourself.

I can always put a video up of experiences in both games, then again playing perfectly working sieges is more fun for me (with everything else I have said in this thread)

Originally posted by Mattius

Why?

Combat and graphics.

As far as in corcerned, when people talk about next generation, or steps beyond the norm

WAR is past and present, AoC is the future.

When i compare AoC melee combat, ranged combat, animations, character movement, atmosphere, graphics....all of it is better than WAR.

Makes me think....Funcom you released to early, you had nothing to fear.

 

 

 

 

Apparently they had something to fear, even the directors are being fired

Originally posted by Mattius

Why?

Combat and graphics.

As far as in corcerned, when people talk about next generation, or steps beyond the norm

WAR is past and present, AoC is the future.

When i compare AoC melee combat, ranged combat, animations, character movement, atmosphere, graphics....all of it is better than WAR.

Makes me think....Funcom you released to early, you had nothing to fear.

 

 

 

 

Atmosphere in WAR is a no contest.  If you actually play past level 5, you'll know this.  There are things about WAR that AoC can never touch.  But you go ahead, fire up AoC and play with the other 2 people who have stayed.  That game is so bad (even after two patches a week), that it's own designer has bailed out.  You sir, are insane.  Graphics does not make a game.

I'm sick. I am going to play both games. lol

Originally posted by DAS1337

Atmosphere in WAR is a no contest.  If you actually play past level 5, you'll know this.  There are things about WAR that AoC can never touch.

Actually this is the main reason why I left WAR. Compared to AoC, WAR has no atmosphere. I didn't feel any thing while I was playing it. And yes, I have played past level 5.

For atmosphere, AoC uses lighting effects, shadows, fog together with the best environmental sounds in the mmorpg industry (it was already very good at launch, but if you haven't played AoC since release you should log back in to see how much all of this has been polished). WAR has almost nothing of this.

And then add the birds in the skies, the fish in the water, the npcs working and living in the world, animals and children running playing around and laughing, rain, thunder and lightning striking down from the skies, etc... everything of this including the excellent environmental sounds that go with it.

Yes the environmental sounds are also different at night and during the day. At night you hear the crickets and the usual sounds you hear at night when you are outside, this changes when the sun comes up, and is of course different depending on the environment your are in.

And the viewing distance, in AoC you can see far away, in WAR everything around you is plain grey, this kills immersion completely.

The only downside of AoC is the unfortunate zoning, but even with zoning the above environmental effects are so well done that zoning doesn't bother me at all (well, scratch this; zoning still bothers me, but not as much).

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by lumache

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Lelob

 Why is it that both casters and melee use stamina to sprint but only melee use stamina for combos?

Because your wrong, all casters use stamina for spells as well. You said you played a necromancer, you should know this.
The rest of your post, you are just really really bad at the combat in AOC.
Also, most of what you are talking about in your post is:

1: Old info
2: Incorrect
3: Exactly what we were taking about, you approached it as if its typical MMO combat, its not, you got pawned.

 

 

 First off you got pawned too Mr Bloodsworth, as you bought the game and are playing it! I mean thats total pawnage, given the state of this hunk of crap!

Lelob is correct on the most important part here : AOC is a total disaster.  I mean when a guy is right - hes right.

I canceled quite a while ago.

AOC is only a total disaster if Wow was your first MMO, or you have never seen a launch of one before.

 

Must... Not... Strangle.... Monitor...

Bloodworth... I can respect your loyalty to the game (even though you're not playing it, unless you re-subbed recently), as most of what you say falls in the category of opinion, which can't be right or wrong (just well- or ill-informed).

But when you keep stating things like this:

"AOC is only a total disaster if Wow was your first MMO, or you have never seen a launch of one before."

I makes me want to stab my eyes out with a dull pencil.

You make this statement and other supporting statements so often and I can't understand how you can honestly say it with a straight face or any sense of intellectual honesty. You talk about people being "impatient" or "wanting things right now" and all this.. *months* after the game launched and *months* after some of those things were supposed to be in the game.

Age of Conan is *not* a "launch phase" game anymore. It launched on May 20th in the US and on May 23rd in Europe. We're talking almost 4 months to the day.

Time does not stop for a MMO post-launch until "it's a fully functioning game". It does not stop indefinitely until you feel "Okay, the game is officially post-launch now". There is no pause button. Time keeps a-ticking.

That said... If WoW is some people's only experience with a MMO launch (not in my case, incidentally), then that gives them a good idea of pretty much how a launch *should* go. LoTRO, WAR (so far) and even DAoC are all examples of MMOs that had a stable launch.

WoW had hiccups, yes. Not enough servers for all the players they were getting; a problem with the database, etc. The difference is.. they weren't still a problem even 2 months after the game's launch, much less 4.

If you want to have infinite patience with Funcom and give them a pass on every single misstep they make, that's fine. That's your choice. But can you please temper it with some objective intellectual honesty and stop trying to defend everything about the game in the context of it being "just launched"? That argument was shot full of holes and sank  months ago.

Originally posted by BigMango 

The only downside to AoC is the unfortunate zoning, but even with zoning the above environmental effects are so well done that zoning doesn't bother me at all.

You can have your environmental effects, I would rather have an open world personally. If people weren't so obsessed with graphics, maybe that's what we would have right now. It's what killed EQ2 for me, along with AoC. Plus the way the zones are set up in AoC makes it even worse, with having to go through one zone just to get to another. 

Seriously, after playing a game like Lineage 2 (huge open world with pretty much no instances, and decent graphics for it's time) it's really hard to get into games that have zones. Screw the graphics, give me a world that really feels like a world. And no, I am not and will never play WoW or WAR.

Originally posted by AmazingAvery

Originally posted by Imjin

 

AmazingAOCAVERY

You do realize that mabs used to hit you through walls in AOC. God only knows if thats fixed.

Once more as a helpful suggestion you are on very thin ice inside of a thin glass house. Be careful where you step before throwing those nonsensical stones.

 

Edited for lack of who i was talking to.

 

You want me to say AoC didn't have similar bugs? Course it did, and I know for a fact warhammer is suffering the same thing from first hand experience.

Of course the only way to know if its fixed in AoC is to play it now or ask God yourself.

I can always put a video up of experiences in both games, then again playing perfectly working sieges is more fun for me (with everything else I have said in this thread)

 

Bugs what bugs? i have been playing this game since early headstart and i still have to come across game breaking bugs. I can't say the same for AOC during my first week playtime. Please do no spread wrong information. Its ironic how people get banned so fast for being a troll and somehow you are still surviving.

MMORPG biased much?

Originally posted by girlgeek

Originally posted by TheSheikh

Well, this is the second page of posts and no one has said it..... so.....

This game is in open beta and there are no High Res Textures, AA (anti-aliasing), final lighting, and so on.

"That new car is ugly, it has no paint, rims, or windows!!!!!"

"Yes..... that is because we are in the automobile factory....."

 

 

And now this game is released (we're talking about WAR here) and all of the above still applies.

I forced AA via my gfx card, and a few other little touches, as well....and it's still not really wonderful.

We have to consider though, that if you're comparing WAR to AoC graphically....AoC is DX10...WAR, is not, although for some reason I thought it was going to be.  I don't know where I got that idea, but....oh well.

I'm just making this comment though, because the thread is about graphics.  For me....graphics don't ENTIRELY dictate my enjoyment of a game.  However....there is an immersiveness lacking for me in WAR, that I can't quite put my finger on.  For me....it feels like...well...a game.  The fighting feels like...."I'm playing a game and I'm fighting against other players."  This has bothered me since the preview weekend and on.  I just can't seem to "FEEL" this game, and I seriously do NOT know why.  The environments just don't feel very immersive.

I haven't tried AoC yet.

Some things in AoC that make me "Feel" the game more than WAR are environmental effects. Graphical effects such as mist and fog that doesn't look like a smudge on my screen, sound effects such as if you see a fire in AoC either on the ground or a torch on the wall, not only does it look real but when you move your character there is positional sound from your speaks as if your turning your head around in real life. Not to mention the wildlife in AoC, Wolves NPC's hunt hare rabit and deer. You walk near wildlife it runs from you realistically. There are more creatures that interact with the lay of the land in AoC, birds that eat dead carcass', fish in the water even. All these little things add up to more immersion for me.

Other neat sound effects are like when your running across different terrain or on horse back the noise you make is different each time for each type of terrain you move on. In WAR is all the same, take a horse on go across grass, sand, rock or Ice in AoC and you will hear positional and difference in sound effects in war its the same noise all the time - there is no difference. This is something that I noticed a lot in War but took for granted in AoC. When I swim in the water or under in AoC its much different than in war where I felt my avatar had 5 animations for swiming and things didn't "feel" right there either.

Warhammer might be more seamless, but I know if there is a boulder in AoC i can jump on it, through the elven tiers I found I couldn't in war. At the edges of AoC there are invisible walls, in war I found these all around me in the open world. In one town I could jump over the barricade by a river, but the barricade the same height at the front of of same town if i try to jump over it I hit an invisible wall in mid air. There are many situations like this I find in war where I don't in AoC - only at the edges of zones in AoC.

War is about War, its everywhere, it accomplishes it's goal by giving you basic character models and basic landscapes to achieve this in higher numbers, thoughts on combat have already been discussed, but I can say in AoC you can have a 100 man sieges and feel crowded and part of visual and engaging experience with keeping decent animations, spell effects, environmental effects etc - 1 month ago this was not possible in AoC - recently its a reality for those taking part in these sieges.

I guess finally for me the "feel" factor comes in when you participate in city construction. You actually help source materials and then build by hand. It's yours, you and your kin own it. It was not given to you, it was not just found miraclousy in the open world, it was made by you, formed by you, designed by you, looked after and repaired by you, it doesn't miraclousy reset either. It's not like one day it got destroyed and 5 hours later it's there perfectly formed again. Ownership gives more meaning and "feel" as its not only something you might of fought to keep but also something you look after too.

These are just some mere points for me which I missed playing warhammer, it was enhanced in AoC in these area's for me. Warhammer has a good start, but really the set up is not so different its alien more like its different as in that relative you see every xmas, nothing changes everytime you see that relative they always look the same.

You can walk into an area with all the same mobs in War, they will be generically placed out along a path, in AoC when you come to a camp and attack some guys on the edge of that camp, if your in the line of sight of others in the camp or if your fighting multiple NPC's one of them will run and alert the others either by running up to them or running to say a horn and blowing it and more will come to help even from far away - its a nice touch which adds to a more immersive, real feeling. Plus weapon swings in melee hit more than one character - now that is something I did miss.