This is the real attemp at world PvP from blizzard since the begening of WoW.  And when blizzard put efforts in something, they get it right. This zone seems so well design and well thought that WAR will look like a 5 years old game in term of siege warfair. just browse Lake Wintergrasp on youtube you'll see for yourself. Will this zone be the best PvP experience of all MMOs?

I can't wait to try Lake Wintergrasp. It's really one of the main reasons I want to play WoTLK. I still haven't gotten into beta, and all of my friends have which pisses me off. I bet it's so amazing.

Originally posted by malefacus

This is the real attemp at world PvP from blizzard since the begening of WoW.  And when blizzard put efforts in something, they get it right. This zone seems so well design and well thought that WAR will look like a 5 years old game in term of siege warfair. just browse Lake Wintergrasp on youtube you'll see for yourself. Will this zone be the best PvP experience of all MMOs?

 Oh boy wait till the WAR fanboys see this post. Incoming " you only have 4 year old bgs and 3 arenas" attack

 *runs for cover*

Originally posted by Obzerver

Originally posted by malefacus

This is the real attemp at world PvP from blizzard since the begening of WoW.  And when blizzard put efforts in something, they get it right. This zone seems so well design and well thought that WAR will look like a 5 years old game in term of siege warfair. just browse Lake Wintergrasp on youtube you'll see for yourself. Will this zone be the best PvP experience of all MMOs?

 

 Oh boy wait till the WAR fanboys see this post. Incoming " you only have 4 year old bgs and 3 arenas" attack

 *runs for cover*

LoL, soo true Obzerver.  I agree Malefacus 100%, Blizzard has earned my trust, all they can do now is keep it or lose it.

I'll build a wall down here to defend the truthfulness of this thread.

For those that want to know more Ill give you all an overview on how Lake wintergrasp works.

1. When wrath goes live one faction will control the keep.
2. While a faction has control of the keep players of that faction get a random world buff +exp +hp +att, the faction also unlocks a 10/25man raid dungeons within the keep, players of the faction can also collect shards from bosses which can be used to purchase items at shard vendors.
3. Every 4 hours neutrel NPC's spawn (possibly the scurge) and kick all players out of the keep, the keep is then given to a random faction. ( or maybe its given in turns I am not sure ).
4. The faction not in control of the keep then have 45mins in which to assult and take the keep or lose the chance and wait another 4 hours.
5. As players PvP they earn ranks (as a temp buff) the higher the rank to more powerful seige weapon they can command.
6. Players must take and hold spawn points, seige factories and resource nodes to help them in the goal of taking the keep.
7. The keep can be attacked on serval fronts ( see the picture ), by destorying the walls.
8. There are 6 different seige weapons on offer from 1man vechicals to 5man APC's, there are also a number of flying vechicals.
9. Bridges can be destroyed to tactical advantage.
10. If your side is out numbered the side that is outnumbered get a +25% HP and +18% DMG buff.
11. Rewards for participating are +2500Honor if you lose and +5000Honor if you win as well as the benefits posted in point 2.
12. If when the keep is not being attacked and is in the safe 4 hour zone players from each faction can come to LW and collect/compete for rare resources.
13. Note: all subject to change.

Now for me 2500honor (even for a lose) plus the honor gained from PvP is more than enough to get me to wintergrasp.

Sounds interesting, I'd probably have stuck around if this was in BC.  But sadly it wasn't and I have no real desire to level to 80.

That and I get to do this kind of stuff in WAR from level 1.  Still makes me giggle with glee that I can RVR at level 1!

Originally posted by coffee

For those that want to know more Ill give you all an overview on how Lake wintergrasp works.

 

1. When wrath goes live one faction will control the keep.
2. While a faction has control of the keep players of that faction get a random world buff +exp +hp +att, the faction also unlocks a 10/25man raid dungeons within the keep, players of the faction can also collect shards from bosses which can be used to purchase items at shard vendors.
3. Every 4 hours neutrel NPC's spawn (possibly the scurge) and kick all players out of the keep, the keep is then given to a random faction. ( or maybe its given in turns I am not sure ).
4. The faction not in control of the keep then have 45mins in which to assult and take the keep or lose the chance and wait another 4 hours.
5. As players PvP they earn ranks (as a temp buff) the higher the rank to more powerful seige weapon they can command.
6. Players must take and hold spawn points, seige factories and resource nodes to help them in the goal of taking the keep.
7. The keep can be attacked on serval fronts ( see the picture ), by destorying the walls.
8. There are 6 different seige weapons on offer from 1man vechicals to 5man APC's, there are also a number of flying vechicals.
9. Bridges can be destroyed to tactical advantage.
10. If your side is out numbered the side that is outnumbered get a +25% HP and +18% DMG buff.
11. Rewards for participating are +2500Honor if you lose and +5000Honor if you win as well as the benefits posted in point 2.
12. If when the keep is not being attacked and is in the safe 4 hour zone players from each faction can come to LW and collect/compete for rare resources.
13. Note: all subject to change.

Now for me 2500honor (even for a lose) plus the honor gained from PvP is more than enough to get me to wintergrasp.

Wow Coffee, as always on top of things. Ty for those unable to join Beta.

This will rock for me as a pure PvP player. Just came back from a "massive" dwarf PvP WAR "scenario" catching the 3 flags on a surface the size of a one floored WSG camp. The size of a poststamp and still lagging as hell, the moment you fight with 8 players on screen.

But everyone just decides for himself: my moto is:

Every WAR copy sold is free publicity for WotLK. And the lay-out and thoughts above show why.

So WoW is copying WAR again, big deal.

This is RvR light, not comparable to WAR.

Edit : You know, I bet it will be fun, for a few weeks, then it will get stale, because it is only 1 map and not a WAR.

greetz

Originally posted by CyberWiz

So WoW is copying WAR again, big deal.

This is RvR light, not comparable to WAR.

Edit : You know, I bet it will be fun, for a few weeks, then it will get stale, because it is only 1 map and not a WAR.

greetz

Let's see it took .... 10 minutes before a WOW hater and WAR pusher took over the thread.
They are getting slower and slower these days. :)))
Now Wow is already a War clone, someone must have been sleeping these last 3 years.

---------
Every War copy sold is free publicity for WotLK.

I love this bit:

"The faction not in control of the keep then have 45mins in which to assult and take the keep or lose the chance and wait another 4 hours."

Lol, you know how they say.. a leopard can never change his spots...

And besides, too little too late. If this were introduced 2 years ago WOTLK might have had a chance.

Originally posted by markoraos

I love this bit:

"The faction not in control of the keep then have 45mins in which to assult and take the keep or lose the chance and wait another 4 hours."

Lol, you know how they say.. a leopard can never change his spots...

And besides, too little too late. If this were introduced 2 years ago WOTLK might have had a chance.

Sounds good to me.. 45 mins of intense PvP action then 4 hours to bask in the victory, 4 hours for your guild to get together and run the raid dungeon, 4 hours to speak\quest\buy to\from the NPC vendors you unlocked. 4 hours to make use of the world buff your faction get and 4 hours to collect shards from the dungeon/raid bosses.

Originally posted by markoraos

I love this bit:

"The faction not in control of the keep then have 45mins in which to assult and take the keep or lose the chance and wait another 4 hours."

Lol, you know how they say.. a leopard can never change his spots...

And besides, too little too late. If this were introduced 2 years ago WOTLK might have had a chance.

15 minutes later and another War pusher enters the field ....
4 hours between each fight is a little better than having to wait a few months to have a capitol siege isn't it ?
Besides the 4 hours serve well to have open world buffs and other goodies to acquire in the Keep.

Talking of too little too late in the case of Wow numbers is rather dumb I think, I would like to conclude with the very logical prediction:

---> Every war copy sold is a free publicity for WotLK (as of today). :))))

Originally posted by TsukieU

Sounds interesting, I'd probably have stuck around if this was in BC.  But sadly it wasn't and I have no real desire to level to 80.

 

That and I get to do this kind of stuff in WAR from level 1.  Still makes me giggle with glee that I can RVR at level 1!

What you failed to mention (and maybe don't know) is that the exact same seige mechanisms are used in each tier.   So yeah, you get to RvR at level 1, but you'll be doing the same mechanisms at endgame.  The entire game is like brackets of WSG... yeah, your character gets new skills and hps, but you will be 'capturing' the exact same things, the exact same way the entire time you play the game.  Also warhammer doesn't have moveable seige weapons, player controlled vehicles OR flying combat.

Warhammer takes about a 1/3 of the options of Lake Wintergrasp and makes it the majority of your gamemplay from 1- endgame.    Lake Wintergrasp is like 1/3 of WOW's pvp options, and you still have a ton of pve options (warhammer has very little pve).

Not to mention how mind-numbing pvp is in Warhammer.  Everyone races to the middle of the field, does as much damage as possible til they die, rez and repeat.  I mean, seriously, everything I've seen so far is like a WSG match where everyone just fights mid-field... and you get experience for damaging different players, so you don't even really try to kill anyone, you just try to damage everyone on the screen.

Originally posted by Azrile

Originally posted by TsukieU

Sounds interesting, I'd probably have stuck around if this was in BC.  But sadly it wasn't and I have no real desire to level to 80.

 

That and I get to do this kind of stuff in WAR from level 1.  Still makes me giggle with glee that I can RVR at level 1!

 

What you failed to mention (and maybe don't know) is that the exact same seige mechanisms are used in each tier.   So yeah, you get to RvR at level 1, but you'll be doing the same mechanisms at endgame.  The entire game is like brackets of WSG... yeah, your character gets new skills and hps, but you will be 'capturing' the exact same things, the exact same way the entire time you play the game.  Also warhammer doesn't have moveable seige weapons, player controlled vehicles OR flying combat.

Warhammer takes about a 1/3 of the options of Lake Wintergrasp and makes it the majority of your gamemplay from 1- endgame.    Lake Wintergrasp is like 1/3 of WOW's pvp options, and you still have a ton of pve options (warhammer has very little pve).

Not to mention how mind-numbing pvp is in Warhammer.  Everyone races to the middle of the field, does as much damage as possible til they die, rez and repeat.  I mean, seriously, everything I've seen so far is like a WSG match where everyone just fights mid-field... and you get experience for damaging different players, so you don't even really try to kill anyone, you just try to damage everyone on the screen.

You're clueless.

I'm outta this thread. You boys can have your fun.

A lot of the added elements in the game bring fond memories of Tribes 2.  I really missed this game and hope these additions will bring back some of the strategic (not just tactical) aspects of that game.  Now if Blizzard could add in some Age of Empires elements as well (making houses, towns, barracks and launching assaults) I would be able to throw my other game CDs away entirely.  Here's hopin'!  Even if it isn't as great as everyone says, I think the price of the expansion will be worth it. 

Ah tribes 2.. without doubt my fav shooter.. shame they screwed up Tribes 3 or atleast failed to advertise it and instead add in some dumb ass single player. ho hum.

Ah jetting about with flag with a dozen enemies shooting at me with their spinfusers only for a team mate to drive below me jump off his bike and boom im away.. good times.

.. oh back on topic.

Originally posted by bodypass

Originally posted by markoraos

I love this bit:

"The faction not in control of the keep then have 45mins in which to assult and take the keep or lose the chance and wait another 4 hours."

Lol, you know how they say.. a leopard can never change his spots...

And besides, too little too late. If this were introduced 2 years ago WOTLK might have had a chance.

 

15 minutes later and another War pusher enters the field ....
4 hours between each fight is a little better than having to wait a few months to have a capitol siege isn't it ?

How long did we have to wait for Wintergrasp? Oh 4 years, well a few months doesn't sound so bad does it. I don't know if you're in beta body but wintergrasp isn't even working yet,most people have no idea what they're supposed to be doing and a lot of it is just plain broken. Since your such a blatant fanboy Im sure you'll spin that in some way though.

Originally posted by Diamedes

Originally posted by bodypass

Originally posted by markoraos

I love this bit:

"The faction not in control of the keep then have 45mins in which to assult and take the keep or lose the chance and wait another 4 hours."

Lol, you know how they say.. a leopard can never change his spots...

And besides, too little too late. If this were introduced 2 years ago WOTLK might have had a chance.

 

15 minutes later and another War pusher enters the field ....
4 hours between each fight is a little better than having to wait a few months to have a capitol siege isn't it ?
 

 

How long did we have to wait for Wintergrasp? Oh 4 years, well a few months doesn't sound so bad does it. I don't know if you're in beta body but wintergrasp isn't even working yet,most people have no idea what they're supposed to be doing and a lot of it is just plain broken. Since your such a blatant fanboy Im sure you'll spin that in some way though.

Lake Wintergrasp is in a much better state now then it was a month ago and is completely playable.  I think you are going from a few weeks ago when the started adding stuff and didn't have it functioning (the same way they added trinkets to raid drops but didn't have stats on them).   In any event, most of us have figured out what to do in LW..  it's kinda like joining AV the first time.. you really have no clue what is going on, you just run with the pack til you figure out the strategy.  By your 3rd run at LW, you pretty much know how things function and by now, most of the early beta testers are up to full speed.

Originally posted by Azrile

Lake Wintergrasp is in a much better state now then it was a month ago and is completely playable.  I think you are going from a few weeks ago when the started adding stuff and didn't have it functioning (the same way they added trinkets to raid drops but didn't have stats on them).   In any event, most of us have figured out what to do in LW..  it's kinda like joining AV the first time.. you really have no clue what is going on, you just run with the pack til you figure out the strategy.  By your 3rd run at LW, you pretty much know how things function and by now, most of the early beta testers are up to full speed.

I do remember my first time in AV...  Although there is a certain 'charm' to being noobilicious in a battleground, it would certainly have been nice to have gotten some idea where to go or what to do BEFORE going into it.  My recommendation would've been an empty instance with a tour guide running me around saying, "This here is Vanndar.  Make sure the hordies don't get 'em or it's all over!"  Stuff like that.  Then, my first time in, I know what is where and the significance thereof.  I could then focus more on group tactics instead of, "stoopid nubs, don u no nething?!?! gtf out!"  I don't mind being cursed out, being called a noob, but butchering english while correcting others is absolutely wrong.  Just...plain...wrong...

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by Azrile

Lake Wintergrasp is in a much better state now then it was a month ago and is completely playable.  I think you are going from a few weeks ago when the started adding stuff and didn't have it functioning (the same way they added trinkets to raid drops but didn't have stats on them).   In any event, most of us have figured out what to do in LW..  it's kinda like joining AV the first time.. you really have no clue what is going on, you just run with the pack til you figure out the strategy.  By your 3rd run at LW, you pretty much know how things function and by now, most of the early beta testers are up to full speed.

 

I do remember my first time in AV...  Although there is a certain 'charm' to being noobilicious in a battleground, it would certainly have been nice to have gotten some idea where to go or what to do BEFORE going into it.  My recommendation would've been an empty instance with a tour guide running me around saying, "This here is Vanndar.  Make sure the hordies don't get 'em or it's all over!"  Stuff like that.  Then, my first time in, I know what is where and the significance thereof.  I could then focus more on group tactics instead of, "stoopid nubs, don u no nething?!?! gtf out!"  I don't mind being cursed out, being called a noob, but butchering english while correcting others is absolutely wrong.  Just...plain...wrong...

Yeah.. my very first time in AV, I pulled aggro on Balinda and promptly ran out of her bunker :(  It's really bad when your noob mistake costs 39 other people a game LOL.   I had about 10 people curse me, but all I asked is "what did I do wrong" and someone whispered me and explained it.

I make a point now to say on the run to her " if you pull aggro, don't run from the bunker".. and I also send whispers to people who are guarding a tower that has already burned, becasuse a lot of people tell new players to 'guard a tower' and don't explain that once we burn it down,they can move on.

Lake Wintergrasp is much more noob friendly.  You can't really screw anything up (like resetting Balinda).  The most you can do is run around and be useless til you figure out the strategy.  There are a ton of things in wow where you can either beat your head against the wall, or you can take 2 mins and read wowhead/wiki.

Originally posted by Azrile

Yeah.. my very first time in AV, I pulled aggro on Balinda and promptly ran out of her bunker :(  It's really bad when your noob mistake costs 39 other people a game LOL.   I had about 10 people curse me, but all I asked is "what did I do wrong" and someone whispered me and explained it.

I make a point now to say on the run to her " if you pull aggro, don't run from the bunker".. and I also send whispers to people who are guarding a tower that has already burned, becasuse a lot of people tell new players to 'guard a tower' and don't explain that once we burn it down,they can move on.

Lake Wintergrasp is much more noob friendly.  You can't really screw anything up (like resetting Balinda).  The most you can do is run around and be useless til you figure out the strategy.  There are a ton of things in wow where you can either beat your head against the wall, or you can take 2 mins and read wowhead/wiki.

The result though is people spamming/macro'ing the basics every battleground, "Once we start Drek, DON'T RUN OUT!!!" over and over again.  Otherwise, someone will and as you said, the battleground tanks on one person's unknowing mistake.

Glad to hear Lake Wintergrasp has addressed issues like these. 

Regarding going on wowhead/wiki or whatever, my answer to that is, "we shouldn't have to".  My primary reason for leaving Everquest was that I spend more time on websites trying to figure out quests that I needed to do in the game.  It should've been Everlookituponline...which is sad really.  If the NPC people in the game want you to do something for them, they need to be explicit with who, what, where and why.  I ask the same for my spouse.  "Yes, I know you want me to go to the store, but what specifically do you need and where can I find it, else I'll bring home the 'wrong brand of bacon' and not hear the end of it." 

Agreed.  I usually have to wowhead a few quests every zone just to find where to go.   Its the whole mankirk thing.   But AV is as bad as it gets.  The whole summoning lok thing, the scrape metal turn-ins, understanding mines/reinforcments etc etc.   I agree that there should be more ingame that explains it.  There is a book you can buy from the AV guy called " peeling the onion" that I think was supposed to explain a lot of it, but of course they changed AV without changing the book.

I think the word I'm looking for is 'intuitive' for Lake Wintergrasp.

Originally posted by Azrile

I think the word I'm looking for is 'intuitive' for Lake Wintergrasp.

Yep yep, you summed it up very well in that one word and that would be love-leee.  Hopefully you don't have to put any points into Intuition and roll for it either.

to be fair.. i said intuitive, not idiot proof.    I still see the same people in AV wanting to summon LOK after we've burned 4 towers and are piled in with Van.

There will be people on Offense in LW who want to blow up the bridge even though we have a ton of seige weapons ready to go over them.....err... now that I think about it.. it will be possible for a few people to really cause your side to lose LOL.    Blowing up bridges on offense before your team gets its seige equipment over them is the same as running out of Bal's bunker

Originally posted by Azrile

to be fair.. i said intuitive, not idiot proof.   

As an idiot myself, I appreciate the clarification ;-). 

"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." -  Douglas Adams

I always wondered if there are those who would work to sabotage their side because they usually play the other.  <_< .... >_>