I always enjoy irony, I may be weird. One big complaint in EQ was long travel times. I started thinking over the weekend about all the newer games I have played recently and they are all quest based games. In EQ you would travel to a location and "camp" with a group and kill monsters over and over. People were for the most part stationary for a level or two possibly. There were very few quest. People really disliked travel according to what I see posted in newer forums of various MMORPGs.

In World of Warcraf or say Everquest 2 you quest and quest. You do not stay stationary for a very long time at all.  NPCs have you going here and there constantly. I never played LOTRO but I hear it is the same way quest based. 

Don't get me wrong. I think I enjoy both styles of games. This isn't about my preference, this is about ironacy. People stated they dislike travel so instant travel has been placed in the games yet now you do more running in a game than you ever have. Which game did you travel more in? The irony is people feel travel has been lessened  but with quest based MMORPGs it has been increased. Cheers!

ironacy

Originally posted by qombi

I always enjoy ironacy, I may be weird. One big complaint in EQ was long travel times. I started thinking over the weekend about all the newer games I have played recently and they are all quest based games. In EQ you would travel to a location and "camp" with a group and kill monsters over and over. People were for the most part stationary for a level or two possibly. There were very few quest. People really disliked travel according to what I see posted in newer forums of various MMORPGs.

In World of Warcraf or say Everquest 2 you quest and quest. You do not stay stationary for a very long time at all.  NPCs have you going here and there constantly. I never played LOTRO but I hear it is the same way quest based. 

Don't get me wrong. I think I enjoy both styles of games. This isn't about my preference, this is about ironacy. People stated they dislike travel so instant travel has been placed in the games yet now you do more running in a game than you ever have. Which game did you travel more in? The ironacy is people feel travel has been lessened  but with quest based MMORPGs it has been increased. Cheers!

I seriously can't handle so much ironacy. If Ironacy were made of strawberries, we'd all be drinking a lot of smoothies.

On a serious note, I don't really mind travel time but hate quest based games.

WoW-style brain-dead NPC quests that have zero effect on the world are one of the worst aspects of the current MMO genre.

worlds should be entirely dynamic and sandboxed -- real-world simulations populated by AI-controlled players, not stupid scripted item-givers.

The first MMO that really makes a good sandbox MMO with mostly dynamic content will kick butt (Darkfall?)

Originally posted by javac

WoW-style brain-dead NPC quests that have zero effect on the world are one of the worst aspects of the current MMO genre.

 

worlds should be entirely dynamic and sandboxed -- real-world simulations populated by AI-controlled players, not stupid scripted item-givers.

 

The first MMO that really makes a good sandbox MMO with mostly dynamic content will kick butt (Darkfall?)

Try Ryzom

I have often wondered how well a MMO would do that had no world. After creating your character you started in a building with hallways and room in which NPC stood next to portals. Once you recieved the quest from the NPC you would go thru the portal to a single cave or field or other room where mob after mob would spawn until the boss showed up. you could stay and kill the mobs or boss until everyone in the group got the magic widget then teleport out and go on the next quest.

No fiddling with traveling long distances, everything from quests to portals , to merchants and trainers would basically be in this one building. It wouldn't even have to have more then one floor. You wouldnt have to travel more than a few meters to the next NPC.

This would take care of the travel issue and I am sure the devs would love it because it would be easy to code.

EQ had tons of quests. They just weren't handed to you on a silver platter. you had to find them by talking to NPC's. There were no silly exclamation points and question marks letting you know where to go next.  EQ wasn't linear like WoW.  You logged in and decided where your character would go and hunt.

bring back eq reskinned and redesigned zones and i would be happy. The thing with travelling and staying at a location in eq was, it was tough. I camped KC a lot and there were always times when we nearly wiped or we did wipe. It was much tougher back then, hell i even hear of players saying VG is too tough! and yes eq these days is pretty much the same but back then a rare was actually rare and a dungeon was tough for a single group. Named mobs were not just slightly tougher then the placeholders they were much tougher. in most game these days if you can kill the mobs at the start of a dungeon then you can kill the boss at the end.

Travel never bothered me, it made me feel like i was in a rpg.

Travel was one of the best things in classic EQ.

     Whats funny is alot of the people that hated long travel times in EQ also hated PoK which made travel way better......I have not found a game yet where running for long periods of time is fun......Games like EQ2, WoW, Lotro simply have too many quests and the entire game feels like run, do a quest, run, do a quest, run, do a quest.........I couldnt play any of those games longer than 4 months......

Originally posted by javac

WoW-style brain-dead NPC quests that have zero effect on the world are one of the worst aspects of the current MMO genre.

 

worlds should be entirely dynamic and sandboxed -- real-world simulations populated by AI-controlled players, not stupid scripted item-givers.

 

The first MMO that really makes a good sandbox MMO with mostly dynamic content will kick butt (Darkfall?)

I agree with you 100% there.

Thing is EQ was more a group game and more social. So in the begining it was, get a group together and then travel to your destination. which was even better with friends.

But dont forget EQ was nerdy then, so there was more RP. Now you travel to a place spend 30 mins for a quest then leave.

Originally posted by Theocritus

     Whats funny is alot of the people that hated long travel times in EQ also hated PoK which made travel way better......I have not found a game yet where running for long periods of time is fun......Games like EQ2, WoW, Lotro simply have too many quests and the entire game feels like run, do a quest, run, do a quest, run, do a quest.........I couldnt play any of those games longer than 4 months......

EQ was boring when you simply camped mobs in the outside areas.

It instantly became fun when you entered a dungeon, because it increased the risk, there was a chance for special loot, and there was the chance to actually meet other players in the middle of a dark place.

In that respect, good dungeon design is critical to the enjoyment of it; and instanced zone while giving the players much comfort, further induce them into being self-centered solo players who group for their best interest.

you hit the nail on the head there. Dungeon design and the added risk inside.

irony

Originally posted by Omega3

Originally posted by Theocritus

     Whats funny is alot of the people that hated long travel times in EQ also hated PoK which made travel way better......I have not found a game yet where running for long periods of time is fun......Games like EQ2, WoW, Lotro simply have too many quests and the entire game feels like run, do a quest, run, do a quest, run, do a quest.........I couldnt play any of those games longer than 4 months......

EQ was boring when you simply camped mobs in the outside areas.

It instantly became fun when you entered a dungeon, because it increased the risk, there was a chance for special loot, and there was the chance to actually meet other players in the middle of a dark place.

In that respect, good dungeon design is critical to the enjoyment of it; and instanced zone while giving the players much comfort, further induce them into being self-centered solo players who group for their best interest.

lol,, well what an opinion. I can just feel the vitriol.

Truth be told, you are correct in that dungeon design is important and that it's hard to say that camping mobs and grinding is superior gameplay to questing.

But the idea of instanced zones can be more about story line but that's another topic.

I think the OP doesn't understand the complaint of excess travel.

To illustrate, I signed for Vanguard to give it a try because I liked the idea of a huge world where one can make discoveries. And Vanguard does seem to have this. it was neat to go out and explore. The issue hit when I just wanted to make my way back to town to restock or sell items. I suddenly realized that it was going to take quite a while and that was when I realized why players didn't want this type of gameplay anymore. If you have limited time, traveling back is less fun and more of a chore.

When you are questing you are doing something. Your mind is engaged with the task at hand. But traveling just to get to town is less attractive to players who don't desire to live in an online world but who just want to play a game. When one is done with whatever task that they were doing the prospect of traveling 20 minutes back to town starts to get old fast.

Originally posted by Dedthom

I have often wondered how well a MMO would do that had no world. After creating your character you started in a building with hallways and room in which NPC stood next to portals. Once you recieved the quest from the NPC you would go thru the portal to a single cave or field or other room where mob after mob would spawn until the boss showed up. you could stay and kill the mobs or boss until everyone in the group got the magic widget then teleport out and go on the next quest.

No fiddling with traveling long distances, everything from quests to portals , to merchants and trainers would basically be in this one building. It wouldn't even have to have more then one floor. You wouldnt have to travel more than a few meters to the next NPC.

This would take care of the travel issue and I am sure the devs would love it because it would be easy to code.

Unfortunaly we are getting closer and closer to that type of scenario you are describing 

Originally posted by Harpy_Lady

EQ had tons of quests. They just weren't handed to you on a silver platter. you had to find them by talking to NPC's. There were no silly exclamation points and question marks letting you know where to go next.  EQ wasn't linear like WoW.  You logged in and decided where your character would go and hunt.

 

Ya, EQ was a game where  you had to think and was hardcore.  None of the ? or ! over a quest giver.  Instead, you had to have some talent.  See, you walked up to an NPC and talked to him.  See, that takes the mad skills to do.

 I find it ironic though people will complain today about travel times long ago in EQ when the games now require you to travel so much more. Running from NPC to NPC for quest and turn ins is a lot more traveling than going to a camp in EQ and killing monsters with a group.

i only did the starter quests and epic quests really i just huntterd for drop and xp.

but i did play this game with 4 RLF and a good guild were i know ppl well i loved eq shame they dont just revamp the grafix

Originally posted by Dedthom

I have often wondered how well a MMO would do that had no world. After creating your character you started in a building with hallways and room in which NPC stood next to portals. Once you recieved the quest from the NPC you would go thru the portal to a single cave or field or other room where mob after mob would spawn until the boss showed up. you could stay and kill the mobs or boss until everyone in the group got the magic widget then teleport out and go on the next quest.

No fiddling with traveling long distances, everything from quests to portals , to merchants and trainers would basically be in this one building. It wouldn't even have to have more then one floor. You wouldnt have to travel more than a few meters to the next NPC.

This would take care of the travel issue and I am sure the devs would love it because it would be easy to code.

Sounds like Guild Wars, CoH, and Sword of the New World were working on making this world heh.

Originally posted by Urrelles

Originally posted by Dedthom

I have often wondered how well a MMO would do that had no world. After creating your character you started in a building with hallways and room in which NPC stood next to portals. Once you recieved the quest from the NPC you would go thru the portal to a single cave or field or other room where mob after mob would spawn until the boss showed up. you could stay and kill the mobs or boss until everyone in the group got the magic widget then teleport out and go on the next quest.

No fiddling with traveling long distances, everything from quests to portals , to merchants and trainers would basically be in this one building. It wouldn't even have to have more then one floor. You wouldnt have to travel more than a few meters to the next NPC.

This would take care of the travel issue and I am sure the devs would love it because it would be easy to code.

Sounds like Guild Wars, CoH, and Sword of the New World were working on making this world heh.

Still to much walking ;) . and then GW makes you follow a path in the instance with invisible walls and no climbing.

Travel itself is no more the problem than npcs are the cuase of the camping problem.

In both cases extremely poor design, put forth by inept dev teams cuase the problem.

There are MANY things that can be added to a game to make travel something people actually look forward to,much like many things that can be added to a game to solve camping.

The most important new addition to a MMO that would solve both, and many more, would be competent dev teams.

---

Originally posted by originalegg
ironacy

---

This is the true irony, after all.

Originally posted by javac

WoW-style brain-dead NPC quests that have zero effect on the world are one of the worst aspects of the current MMO genre.

 

worlds should be entirely dynamic and sandboxed -- real-world simulations populated by AI-controlled players, not stupid scripted item-givers.

 

The first MMO that really makes a good sandbox MMO with mostly dynamic content will kick butt (Darkfall?)

No surprise here. That is exactly what you would expect would happen when you take content that was mainly optional to be done at your leisure over days or even weeks and months  and make it an integral part of the leveling treadmill.  Can't have a significant part of your leveling mechanism take that long so the quests got dumbed way down and increased in number.