AoC announced they sold 800,000 retail copies and 400,000 digital downloads...  many measure this as to some amount of "success" that the game currently enojys.

so by using THEIR stadards.... what do you make of this?

Mythic Entertainment announces 1.5 MILLION units sold through retailers.

this of course doesnt include digital downloads....

(this is not a slam on AoC)... its simply an announcement for all those that think WarHammer is a fad.

I think gaming companies are starting to get really dishonest about this stuff though.

Warhammer really REALLY 'encouraged' people to pre-order... and then they hype the preorder numbers.  Basically if you are going to buy the game, you are at a disadvantage if you didn't pre-order.

I expect Warhammer to have slightly more sales than AOC ( 1M vs 800K), but their slide down to subscribers will be much less steep.. probably 500k to 600k after a month or two, and then they will retain that 500k for awhile.

IMHO.. Warhammer is not as fun, fluid, polished or deep as wow, but there are enough people who hate wow to support a 500k sub game.

Who ever said warhammer was a fad? Some people just prefer a different game. I think it's great they sold that many, if they didn't it might mean bad things for the industry as a whole, as MJ said himself. To many colossal failures leads to a lack of investors, with that said I hope every game reaches that milestone from now on. Even the games I have no interest in or hate the design of.

Time will tell how many box units War sells. 

The larger the number for War means less potential customers for AoC.  Let's see how this pans out in a few weeks.

I think its great for mythic, as I am not playing warhammer, nor do I have any plans to be playing it anytime soon.  They can however count me as someone that was burned so badly by AOC that I will never rush and buy another game before its been out a while, EVER AGAIN!

In the words of our president George W Bush, "There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."

Basically this is how I now feel about any mmo. I just love that comment by the way.... Even simple sayings elude this man!

Originally posted by lumache

 

Basically this is how I now feel about any mmo. I just love that comment by the way.... Even simple sayings elude this man!

im sure your job is alot easier than his. 

Originally posted by mscouts77

AoC announced they sold 800,000 retail copies and 400,000 digital downloads...  many measure this as to some amount of "success" that the game currently enojys.

so by using THEIR stadards.... what do you make of this?

 

Mythic Entertainment announces 1.5 MILLION units sold through retailers.

this of course doesnt include digital downloads....

(this is not a slam on AoC)... its simply an announcement for all those that think WarHammer is a fad.

Correct me if i'm wrong but thats 1.2 million sales for AoC. 400k (the number everyone seems to stick with) subs from 1.2 million sales is a horrible retention percentage by any stretch of the imagination.

As for War I would rather see how many of the 1.5 milion shipped actually are sold.
 

Originally posted by Azrile

Warhammer really REALLY 'encouraged' people to pre-order... and then they hype the preorder numbers.

Like, from a business point of view, why wouldn't the encourage people to buy the game... yeah very dishonest of them to try to profit from thier product.

There were plenty of free beta keys handed out around the internet if you had half a mind to go and look, the fact of the matter is that people are interested in this game. Otherwise they just wouldn't have bothered.

At leat you didn't have to pay Fileplanet on top of the game price to beta test like you did with Conan.

Originally posted by gamer2108

Originally posted by mscouts77

AoC announced they sold 800,000 retail copies and 400,000 digital downloads...  many measure this as to some amount of "success" that the game currently enojys.

so by using THEIR stadards.... what do you make of this?

 

Mythic Entertainment announces 1.5 MILLION units sold through retailers.

this of course doesnt include digital downloads....

(this is not a slam on AoC)... its simply an announcement for all those that think WarHammer is a fad.

Correct me if i'm wrong but thats 1.2 million sales for AoC. 400k (the number everyone seems to stick with) subs from 1.2 million sales is a horrible retention percentage by any stretch of the imagination.

As for War I would rather see how many of the 1.5 milion shipped actually are sold.
 

Yep that part's indisputable, their retention has been horrible.

Very good point as well, pre-orders do not equal sales.

Originally posted by gamer2108

Originally posted by mscouts77

AoC announced they sold 800,000 retail copies and 400,000 digital downloads...  many measure this as to some amount of "success" that the game currently enojys.

so by using THEIR stadards.... what do you make of this?

 

Mythic Entertainment announces 1.5 MILLION units sold through retailers.

this of course doesnt include digital downloads....

(this is not a slam on AoC)... its simply an announcement for all those that think WarHammer is a fad.

Correct me if i'm wrong but thats 1.2 million sales for AoC. 400k (the number everyone seems to stick with) subs from 1.2 million sales is a horrible retention percentage by any stretch of the imagination.

As for War I would rather see how many of the 1.5 milion shipped actually are sold.
 

1 in 3 is an amazing ratio, I would expect develovers would be more than please with just 1 or 2 in 10!

would be realy interesting if un-subscription numbers were available anywhere. Will be good to see how WAR holds up.

Originally posted by Noggin

Originally posted by Azrile

Warhammer really REALLY 'encouraged' people to pre-order... and then they hype the preorder numbers.

 

Like, from a business point of view, why wouldn't the encourage people to buy the game... yeah very dishonest of them to try to profit from thier product.

 

There were plenty of free beta keys handed out around the internet if you had half a mind to go and look, the fact of the matter is that people are interested in this game. Otherwise they just wouldn't have bothered.

 

At leat you didn't have to pay Fileplanet on top of the game price to beta test like you did with Conan.

Actually a lot of people had to, just like in eu most actually had to pay to beta for WAR. At least according to them.

Originally posted by Professor78

Originally posted by gamer2108

Originally posted by mscouts77

AoC announced they sold 800,000 retail copies and 400,000 digital downloads...  many measure this as to some amount of "success" that the game currently enojys.

so by using THEIR stadards.... what do you make of this?

 

Mythic Entertainment announces 1.5 MILLION units sold through retailers.

this of course doesnt include digital downloads....

(this is not a slam on AoC)... its simply an announcement for all those that think WarHammer is a fad.

Correct me if i'm wrong but thats 1.2 million sales for AoC. 400k (the number everyone seems to stick with) subs from 1.2 million sales is a horrible retention percentage by any stretch of the imagination.

As for War I would rather see how many of the 1.5 milion shipped actually are sold.
 

 

1 in 3 is an amazing ratio, I would expect develovers would be more than please with just 1 or 2 in 10!

You're kidding right? I think what would please them is after selling all those boxes, everyone subscribed and told all thier friends and they went out and bought it and subscribed, then they went out and told.... You get where I'm going.

Also, they haven't added on the sales from digital download to that figure either.

Originally posted by Malickie

Originally posted by Noggin

Originally posted by Azrile

Warhammer really REALLY 'encouraged' people to pre-order... and then they hype the preorder numbers.

 

Like, from a business point of view, why wouldn't the encourage people to buy the game... yeah very dishonest of them to try to profit from thier product.

 

There were plenty of free beta keys handed out around the internet if you had half a mind to go and look, the fact of the matter is that people are interested in this game. Otherwise they just wouldn't have bothered.

 

At leat you didn't have to pay Fileplanet on top of the game price to beta test like you did with Conan.

Actually a lot of people had to, just like in eu most actually had to pay to beta for WAR. At least according to them.

I hadn't heard that. I figured you just pre-order or get a key from one of many websites offering them.

These days I pay little attention to how many folks pre-order, or how many units ship to retailers (what we have here today) but rather how the retention rate looks after a month or so.

Originally posted by Noggin

Actually a lot of people had to, just like in eu most actually had to pay to beta for WAR. At least according to them.

I hadn't heard that. I figured you just pre-order or get a key from one of many websites offering them.

Yeah I can't stand how devs handle beta's now, using a testing stage as a pseudo Preview/trial is a very bad idea IMO.

Originally posted by Professor78

1 in 3 is an amazing ratio, I would expect develovers would be more than please with just 1 or 2 in 10!

would be realy interesting if un-subscription numbers were available anywhere. Will be good to see how WAR holds up.

I'm not a marketing person, so take my opinion for what it's worth (which may not be much), but I would think that if you were giving away a product, then a 1 in 3 retention rate would be great. However, if people had to make a $50 investment in your product (just using nice, round numbers), you would expect they would be more likely to stick with it for a period of time in hopes of getting the expected value out of that initial investment. Or, as is only natural, to find a redeeming feature to convince themselves they didn't just throw away $50.

On the other side though, if i were developing a game, I would certainly not be thinking to myself: "boy, I sure hope 1 in 3 people likes this game enough to keep playing. I would be comfortable if my work were only 1/3rd enjoyable".

wow copy=Profit

and that is all war hammer is, I wish I had my preorder receipt back.!

Originally posted by ganbee

wow copy=Profit

and that is all war hammer is, I wish I had my preorder receipt back.!

someone didn't play past level 3.

Originally posted by Malickie

Originally posted by Noggin

Actually a lot of people had to, just like in eu most actually had to pay to beta for WAR. At least according to them.

I hadn't heard that. I figured you just pre-order or get a key from one of many websites offering them.

 

Yeah I can't stand how devs handle beta's now, using a testing stage as a pseudo Preview/trial is a very bad idea IMO.

I think games like AOC are going to even reinforce this.  I know with Warhammer.. I totally discounted any pre-beta hype and waited til either I got into beta, or people in beta were not under any kinda NDA and can talk about details.  If there hadn't of been an open beta, then I would have waited a few months to buy the game.   Games are almost forced to have a free preview type beta if they want to have strong pre-orders to brag about.  If companies don't have a free preview, players are going to think something is fishy and compare it to what Funcom did.

In any event, I gave warhammer a fair try.  The game is just not as much fun as WOW.

Originally posted by Azrile

Originally posted by Malickie

Originally posted by Noggin

Actually a lot of people had to, just like in eu most actually had to pay to beta for WAR. At least according to them.

I hadn't heard that. I figured you just pre-order or get a key from one of many websites offering them.

 

Yeah I can't stand how devs handle beta's now, using a testing stage as a pseudo Preview/trial is a very bad idea IMO.

 

I think games like AOC are going to even reinforce this.  I know with Warhammer.. I totally discounted any pre-beta hype and waited til either I got into beta, or people in beta were not under any kinda NDA and can talk about details.  If there hadn't of been an open beta, then I would have waited a few months to buy the game.   Games are almost forced to have a free preview type beta if they want to have strong pre-orders to brag about.  If companies don't have a free preview, players are going to think something is fishy and compare it to what Funcom did.

In any event, I gave warhammer a fair try.  The game is just not as much fun as WOW.

I know what you're saying, however I feel it does more harm then good in a lot of cases. When they open testing up as a "hey come and play, have some fun" type open house. Feedback takes a negative hit, people are having so much fun (it is after all a new game) most feedback is completely positive often overly so. Look at most peoples initial impression of AOC, it was only after reaching late-end game when people realized something wasn't quite right. Of course AOC is sort of an anomaly, due to its limited beta testing.

---

Originally posted by Noggin
 
At leat you didn't have to pay Fileplanet on top of the game price to beta test like you did with Conan.

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Originally posted by Spellshaper

 

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Originally posted by Noggin
 
At leat you didn't have to pay Fileplanet on top of the game price to beta test like you did with Conan.

---

Thats LIE! You only have to pay Fileplanet for first wave of beta keyes, rest were free for all! Just like with WAR beta (first weeks were only for paying FP customers). Also you can get keys from other sites than FP (for both games) but AoC keys were VERY limited on other sites.

 

My personal favorite is the $2.99 to download the free trial, gotta love that one.
 

Originally posted by mklinic

 

I'm not a marketing person, so take my opinion for what it's worth (which may not be much), but I would think that if you were giving away a product, then a 1 in 3 retention rate would be great. However, if people had to make a $50 investment in your product (just using nice, round numbers), you would expect they would be more likely to stick with it for a period of time in hopes of getting the expected value out of that initial investment. Or, as is only natural, to find a redeeming feature to convince themselves they didn't just throw away $50.

On the other side though, if i were developing a game, I would certainly not be thinking to myself: "boy, I sure hope 1 in 3 people likes this game enough to keep playing. I would be comfortable if my work were only 1/3rd enjoyable".

MMOs are an entirely different beast than any other product you can think of.

I don't trust anyone's unit sales figures in the gaming industry. They throw a number ant you and don't ever give you the basis for it. It's pretty much all spin.

my assumption is that war has boosted sales mainly because alot of the guys that played AOC who probably never even thought of playing War are going to try it out.  I never ever thought of playing war but after what happened with AOC I need my MMO fix.

Hopefully Mythic wont treat its customers the same way AOC did to theirs. Random bans with no refund, Changing the international billing to Euros instead of USD which people signed up for.  and the list goes on.