Originally posted by Azrile

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by Azrile

This thread is just full of bad information

1.  Funcom is not in good shape.  They spent 50M to produce and launch AOC ( 22M they borrowed in February).  They only made 20% of box sales, which is 8M dollars.  The rest goes to retailers and distributers.  So basically they paid 50M to generate 8M.

3. Funcom LOST 8M in the 2nd quarter, despite the sales they got from boxes.  They also had about -15M in cashflow and currently only have enough cash for about 6 more months of operation.

4.  Funcom currently has 32M cash assets, and is in debt about 30M.   23M of that is short term debt which has to be repayed in the next 2 years.  Seeing how Funcom lost 8M in the second quarter, it makes it difficult to see where they are going to get that 23M from.

5.  All the major stock indexs are down about 5% over the past 2 years.  Funcom's stock is down 50% over the same period... and is down a whopping 80% since it's high in may.   When stock markets have 'bad' days.. it's usually 2-3%....  Funcom has had about 10 days in the past month where it's stock has dropped more than 10% and it hasn't had two positive days in a row since June.

6.  Even with 800k box sales and 400k subscribers in the 2nd quarter.. Funcom LOST 8M dollars.  How much bigger will that loss be when they don't have 800k box sales.

 

Learn to read a quarterly report. Funcom has 36M in cash assets and 21M in short term debt.  Even though they spent a considerable amount  launching the game they still have more in cash assets and more total worth than the same time last year. Considerably more. They're making money not going broke. One day you people will realize AOC isn't Funcom's only source of revenue and they actually made money when AOC was all expense and no income.

 

Funcom has NEVER made money.  They have had negative EPS every quarter since they have been a publicly traded company.  In the second quarter they lost  7.1M,  in 2Q07 they only lost 1.7M.   You continue to confuse 'sales' with 'profits'.  Yes.. funcom has plenty of income, but they are spending far more than they are bringing in.. that is what that Negative means in front of the 7.1 and 1.7 in the quarterly report.  In fact, if you look at the financial report, almost every number has a big negative in front of it. 

Yes, Funcom has more in cash assets than they ever did in their past (32M), but that is ENTIRELY borrowed money.    If I have 0 money, and I borrow 23M dollars, suddenly.. guess what.. I have 23M in cash assets. Look at the financials.. last year Funcom had 4M in debt... now they have 25M.   In February, Funcom borrowed 23M and that is the only reason their 'cash assets' jumped.  They convinced somebody that AoC was going to be the next WOW.   That bank had as huge of an 'awakening' as players had with launch.  They were expecting funcom to be profitable and to be able to pay them back.. instead Funcom lost 8M and it's stock is tanking.  The person who approved that loan probably feels like a player who bought the CE addition and a 6 month subscription. :)

The key thing to look for in the 2Q report are two lines

1. Cash assets at beginning of period     52M 
2.  Cash assets at end of period   36M
Net cash flow =  Negative 16M

Stock is down below $8 per share..  that is half of what it was when the company went public 5 years ago.

Sounds like one big ponzi scheme to me.
 

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by Azrile

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by Azrile

 

Funcom has NEVER made money. 

 

This is what's known as the "big lie" Learn to read annual reports.

 

haha.   350k sold shares today show you are wrong.  Stock has now lost 20% of it's value in 5hrs this morning.

I wonder if Lit got banned again?

 

Even if the stock hits zero it doesn't mean the company is broke. Learn what stocks are.

maybe you should take your own advice....

FunCom when they went public started at 12.00 in stock prices.

through investors buying they went up to 52.

now they are lower than they were when they went public.

7.58 (atm) does in fact mean they are CLOSE to being BROKE.... because stocks are another form of investment capital..... the more investors that try and regain some of their original investment the lower the stock price will be.

FunCom is going down....  I honestly didnt think they would get THIS low

Originally posted by mscouts77

 

because stocks are another form of investment capital..... the more investors that try and regain some of their original investment the lower the stock price will be.

 

FunCom is going down....  I honestly didnt think they would get THIS low

So you think every company that had a failed IPO went broke and ceased to exist? Stocks are a form of raising capital. If you already have enough capital and cashflow to weather the storm you survive. Funcom does. 

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by Azrile

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by Azrile

 

Funcom has NEVER made money. 

 

This is what's known as the "big lie" Learn to read annual reports.

 

haha.   350k sold shares today show you are wrong.  Stock has now lost 20% of it's value in 5hrs this morning.

I wonder if Lit got banned again?

 

Even if the stock hits zero it doesn't mean the company is broke. Learn what stocks are.

A stock going to 0 does not CAUSE a company to go bankrupt.  A stock going to 0 is a sign that the company IS going bankrupt.

A virus causes a fever.   just like going bankrupt causes a stock to dive.   You don't look at someone with a fever and say " Oh my goodness, that person might catch a virus someday".  The fever is the indication of what is going on inside the body, just like a plummeting stock price is an indication funcom is going bankrupt.

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by mscouts77

 

because stocks are another form of investment capital..... the more investors that try and regain some of their original investment the lower the stock price will be.

 

FunCom is going down....  I honestly didnt think they would get THIS low

 

So you think every company that had a failed IPO went broke and ceased to exist? Stocks are a form of raising capital. If you already have enough capital and cashflow to weather the storm you survive. Funcom does. 

They do? I think that at this moment they might, but with 16m in negative cash flow, how long can we expect them to have enough cash?
 

Originally posted by lumache

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by mscouts77

 

because stocks are another form of investment capital..... the more investors that try and regain some of their original investment the lower the stock price will be.

 

FunCom is going down....  I honestly didnt think they would get THIS low

 

So you think every company that had a failed IPO went broke and ceased to exist? Stocks are a form of raising capital. If you already have enough capital and cashflow to weather the storm you survive. Funcom does. 

They do? I think that at this moment they might, but with 16m in negative cash flow, how long can we expect them to have enough cash?
 

Lum you're looking into the past and projecting into the future with no change. They [i]had[/i] a negative cash flow. If they've cut expenses enough that won't be true when the third quarter reports come out.

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by lumache

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by mscouts77

 

because stocks are another form of investment capital..... the more investors that try and regain some of their original investment the lower the stock price will be.

 

FunCom is going down....  I honestly didnt think they would get THIS low

 

So you think every company that had a failed IPO went broke and ceased to exist? Stocks are a form of raising capital. If you already have enough capital and cashflow to weather the storm you survive. Funcom does. 

They do? I think that at this moment they might, but with 16m in negative cash flow, how long can we expect them to have enough cash?
 

 

Lum you're looking into the past and projecting into the future with no change. They [i]had[/i] a negative cash flow. If they've cut expenses enough that won't be true when the third quarter reports come out.

and what do you think they "cut" back on?

Im dieing for you to say AoC live team....lol

I bet those devs have their resumes in elsewhere now.

Z********t...I would stop with trying to tell us thats its sunshining outside when its raining cats and dogs.  Azrile is tearin you up.

Originally posted by FischerBlack

It would be very unfortunate if we were restricted from posting negative threads about studio's here due to mmorpg.com earning advertising revenues from said studios.

These days it is difficult to get information about sub numbers and so on, so as a community we often look for secondary indicators that may tell us something about the financial success of a game. Since Funcom is a publicly traded company with a large portion of its assets dedicated to AoC, its stock price provides a reasonably meaningful measure of the games true success.

The financial success of a game has implications for content addition, expansions, bug fixing, and in extreme cases server merges or even server closures. So yes I argue Developer's stock prices are relevant discussion for MMO enthusiasts.

 Totally agree, this was very very well said.  I feel grateful to be part of this community with comments like these.  Also agree I'd ask the mods specifically why it was closed.  I had a thread closed that I started without knowing why.  It turned into a "fire out of control" and though I don't agree it should've been closed, I do understand why the mods did so.  Ultimately it is their turf, but surely would stay only if we had the freedom to say positive things about what we like or negative things about what we don't like...otherwise there's no point to saying anything at all.

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by lumache

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by mscouts77

 

because stocks are another form of investment capital..... the more investors that try and regain some of their original investment the lower the stock price will be.

 

FunCom is going down....  I honestly didnt think they would get THIS low

 

So you think every company that had a failed IPO went broke and ceased to exist? Stocks are a form of raising capital. If you already have enough capital and cashflow to weather the storm you survive. Funcom does. 

They do? I think that at this moment they might, but with 16m in negative cash flow, how long can we expect them to have enough cash?
 

 

Lum you're looking into the past and projecting into the future with no change. They [i]had[/i] a negative cash flow. If they've cut expenses enough that won't be true when the third quarter reports come out.

And you missed a point I made early on

They LOST money and had 16M in negative cash flow  WHEN they had 800k box sales and 415k subscribers.    Yes, you are right, they could cut costs and be cash flow neutral..... if they had 800k box sales and 415k subscribers in September. 

For anyone who wonders why the stock price/financials matter..    Now you know why the pvp patch that was promised in June still hasn't been released, they have few devs still working on the game.

there are still people arguing about this? who cares about stocks? AoC is a decent game, may not be my cup of tea but it's better than most out there. But for those who enjoy the game...do you think they really care about stocks? do you think FC will fold if they have low stocks? of course they wont.

Just as a matter of interest but are SoE's stocks still climbing and reaching amazing heights?

Originally posted by Azrile

There is a difference between AO and AOC.

The past 5 years, they have been 'supporting' AO because the company could borrow against the release of AOC. 

Well how about their new MMO's The Secret World, and some kiddy MMO's they were planing, and xbox AoC release and Russian version of AoC and Asian version of AoC etc...

How about all those shares some CEO dumped in Funcom a while ago, basically they can go very very low they have money, they can buy off their own shares at all time low ( yes they did sell them too for very high price ) and sell them eventually when it raises a bit.

May 26 (Bloomberg)
The shares fell 3.7 kroner, or 7 percent, to 49.3 kroner, the steepest slide since Jan. 21. The stock has almost doubled so far this year, giving the Oslo-based company at market value of 2.6 billion kroner ($520 million)  www.bloomberg.com/apps/news

Well think about it a bit. someone did get very rich here .. and now with AoC fiasco launch "someone" get get his company back very cheaply.

Think about it
( people are naive its not all black and white .... )
 

p.s. Its all just speculation, I could care less what will happen.

That is the point.  They borrowed money against Conan and lost.

Do you think anyone is going to loan them money to make a new game when they bombed with a brand name like Conan.    " yes, you lost our 23M by releasing Conan"... " here is another 23M so you can release a game without a name anyone heard of".   " Yes, here is 23M because we feel the third time is the charm".   Funcom is too deeply in debt to ever get another loan... banks look at profits and debt before issuing more debt LOL

Also, please stop talking about stocks,  you really don't know what you are talking about.  If someone 'rebuys' stock, its not like Funcom gets any of that money.   If I buy Ford at $8, then sell it at $15, then buy it again at $8.. yes, I as an individual made a lot of money... but it is no help to Ford.

Yes, someone got rich when the stock went from  $15 to $55... but guess what.. it was nobody at Funcom.  Nobody at funcom sold their shares in April ( it gets reported).  The CEO sold his shares after it tanked.

If the stock continues to fall, it will be 'easy' for someone to swoop in and buy Funcom.. but why would they?  Why would you buy a company that is losing a ton of money and has no prospects of ever making money.

Funcom's ability to generate profits is what it all comes down too. Ao a game with 10-20k players a majority of which are froobs that pay no money. AOC a game that is bleeding to death at a slow and steady pace. A reputation that is ruined for years as cheats, cons and liars. Then we have an upcoming bug fix expansion that nobody is going to buy as its paying twice for the same product promised at launch. Will you pay twice for false promises? Now add on a massive debt that has put an execution date on your company. This company is not profitable.

How many here plan on buying the aoc bugfix expansion or the secret world knowing now how funcom does business?

Originally posted by hobo9766

Funcom's ability to generate profits is what it all comes down too. Ao a game with 10-20k players a majority of which are froobs that pay no money. AOC a game that is bleeding to death at a slow and steady pace. A reputation that is ruined for years as cheats, cons and liars. Then we have an upcoming bug fix expansion that nobody is going to buy as its paying twice for the same product promised at launch. Will you pay twice for false promises? Now add on a massive debt that has put an execution date on your company. This company is not profitable.

How many here plan on buying the aoc bugfix expansion or the secret world knowing now how funcom does business?

Probably 100% of the people who are still playing the game in December will buy the expansion when it comes out next year!!!

Next question.  Of all the women in the USA who have been beaten by their husbands and put in the ER 5 times or more.. how many of them go back to that same husband?

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Originally posted by Azrile

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Originally posted by hobo9766

Funcom's ability to generate profits is what it all comes down too. Ao a game with 10-20k players a majority of which are froobs that pay no money. AOC a game that is bleeding to death at a slow and steady pace. A reputation that is ruined for years as cheats, cons and liars. Then we have an upcoming bug fix expansion that nobody is going to buy as its paying twice for the same product promised at launch. Will you pay twice for false promises? Now add on a massive debt that has put an execution date on your company. This company is not profitable.
How many here plan on buying the aoc bugfix expansion or the secret world knowing now how funcom does business?

---

 
Probably 100% of the people who are still playing the game in December will buy the expansion when it comes out next year!!!
Next question.  Of all the women in the USA who have been beaten by their husbands and put in the ER 5 times or more.. how many of them go back to that same husband?

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Originally posted by hobo9766

 

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Originally posted by Azrile

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Originally posted by hobo9766

 

Funcom's ability to generate profits is what it all comes down too. Ao a game with 10-20k players a majority of which are froobs that pay no money. AOC a game that is bleeding to death at a slow and steady pace. A reputation that is ruined for years as cheats, cons and liars. Then we have an upcoming bug fix expansion that nobody is going to buy as its paying twice for the same product promised at launch. Will you pay twice for false promises? Now add on a massive debt that has put an execution date on your company. This company is not profitable.
How many here plan on buying the aoc bugfix expansion or the secret world knowing now how funcom does business?

---

 

 
Probably 100% of the people who are still playing the game in December will buy the expansion when it comes out next year!!!
Next question.  Of all the women in the USA who have been beaten by their husbands and put in the ER 5 times or more.. how many of them go back to that same husband?

---

By dec how many will that be? There is no way they still have 400k. The game is bleeding we all know that its just how many are insane enough to stay. I doubt it will be enough to keep funcom alive though all the debt they have accumulated. Also don't forget fc doesn't make 100% profit of box sales.

 

I'm sorry, I should have used  ( /irony  or  /pun  or /sarcasm) in my post.  Funcom will sell the expansion to 100% of the people who are still playing in December.. but that will be such a small number it won't matter.   The expansion is insignificant when it comes to the health of Funcom.   The first reason is that it isn't going to launch this year, and by next year Funcom will be out of business... the second reason, as you said, is that developers only get a small portion of the sales of an expansion.   

If they pull off a mircale and launch the expansion tomorrow and sell it to all 400k subscribers they have (/cough), it will bring in about $4M to Funcom.. which is an insignficant number compared to the 23M in short term debt and -16M in cash flow.

I really do hope a hostile takeover of funcom occurs. The only way this company is going to be saved is to be taken over and have the entire company restructured with competent people. The rights to conan and anarchy Ips should be worth something to some company. The time for it to happen will be soon if the falling trend continues maybe even this week fc will reach $5.

Originally posted by hobo9766

I really do hope a hostile takeover of funcom occurs. The only way this company is going to be saved is to be taken over and have the entire company restructured with competent people. The rights to conan and anarchy Ips should be worth something to some company. The time for it to happen will be soon if the falling trend continues maybe even this week fc will reach $5.

I currently play, yet I completely agree. That would be the best outcome here, it's also an outcome that could very well happen. Time will tell I suppose.

This is a classic case of supression of free speech. Remember the fiasco over at Gamespot when that guy made a honest review of Kane & Lynch and was fired because the publisher had placed an ad and disliked his point of view. This is a very sickening case of censorship if this site caters to its advertisers hand out rather than the people who visit it. Journalistic integrity flies out the window with this sort of thing, but hey there is like 80,000 typos in just about every article written at this site so maybe im expecting too much from kindergarten caliber professionalism. This place may be as incompetent and ignorant as Funcom is.

Originally posted by dethgar

This is a classic case of supression of free speech. Remember the fiasco over at Gamespot when that guy made a honest review of Kane & Lynch and was fired because the publisher had placed an ad and disliked his point of view. This is a very sickening case of censorship if this site caters to its advertisers hand out rather than the people who visit it. Journalistic integrity flies out the window with this sort of thing, but hey there is like 80,000 typos in just about every article written at this site so maybe im expecting too much from kindergarten caliber professionalism. This place may be as incompetent and ignorant as Funcom is.

Not in the slightest, you have no right to free speech here. It's their way or the highway, you want to post anything you want with no repercussion go to an indie site, who doesn't receive money for advertising. Otherwise follow the rules those who provide this forum to you expect you to follow.

Originally posted by hobo9766

I really do hope a hostile takeover of funcom occurs. The only way this company is going to be saved is to be taken over and have the entire company restructured with competent people. The rights to conan and anarchy Ips should be worth something to some company. The time for it to happen will be soon if the falling trend continues maybe even this week fc will reach $5.

I must admit to being 100% behind you here. Erling Ellison lied and the AOC name DIED.

Originally posted by Azrile

 

And you missed a point I made early on

They LOST money and had 16M in negative cash flow  WHEN they had 800k box sales and 415k subscribers.    Yes, you are right, they could cut costs and be cash flow neutral..... if they had 800k box sales and 415k subscribers in September. 

For anyone who wonders why the stock price/financials matter..    Now you know why the pvp patch that was promised in June still hasn't been released, they have few devs still working on the game.

I'll join back on this discussion when they publish their q3 report. No need to say I disagree.

However, their development progress is horrible. The most interesting thing for me is DX10. I mostly wanted AoC because of it. Yet it wasn't in the game.

In their report, it's listed as a long term focus. In my view, long term is 1 year at least. By the time they finish it and polish it, every major game is going to be DX10.

Wanting hundreds of people who are just trying to do their job, and potentially doing their dream job, to loose their jobs, Means there is something wrong with you.

Especially considering that in the grand scheme of things, funcom has done nothing but released an unfinished MMO, just like they all are. You guys are comparing this game and its developers to the like of true scams (Dark and light, Wish, countless others), when they are not even close. I chalk this up to inexperience in the genre. Many people here can’t separate their personal tastes VS. The label of “Crap”, Conan was never to be all things to all people, it is really OK for it just to be not your thing, and move on.

I hope karma comes back to you, because we all know how brave people are when it comes to anonymity on the internets. Even Mythic has gotten a share of this, with the EU release, and the death threats, many of you are simply unreasonable people protected/empowered by the anonymity of a user name.

It is very sad the Lengths this campaign has gone.