Originally posted by Azrile

This thread is just full of bad information

1.  Funcom is not in good shape.  They spent 50M to produce and launch AOC ( 22M they borrowed in February).  They only made 20% of box sales, which is 8M dollars.  The rest goes to retailers and distributers.  So basically they paid 50M to generate 8M.

3. Funcom LOST 8M in the 2nd quarter, despite the sales they got from boxes.  They also had about -15M in cashflow and currently only have enough cash for about 6 more months of operation.

4.  Funcom currently has 32M cash assets, and is in debt about 30M.   23M of that is short term debt which has to be repayed in the next 2 years.  Seeing how Funcom lost 8M in the second quarter, it makes it difficult to see where they are going to get that 23M from.

5.  All the major stock indexs are down about 5% over the past 2 years.  Funcom's stock is down 50% over the same period... and is down a whopping 80% since it's high in may.   When stock markets have 'bad' days.. it's usually 2-3%....  Funcom has had about 10 days in the past month where it's stock has dropped more than 10% and it hasn't had two positive days in a row since June.

6.  Even with 800k box sales and 400k subscribers in the 2nd quarter.. Funcom LOST 8M dollars.  How much bigger will that loss be when they don't have 800k box sales.

I agree that they are not in a great condition, but they are not in as bad situation as you claim.
They have 21.8M in short term debt, but they have 32M cash to cover it, 18M trade debtors (so let's say 10% is written off, so it's ~16M). That short term debt isn't nearly as bad, as you made it look.

Also their operating expenses will be much lower than in Q2, which was 15m. It'll be more along the lines of 5M. Their revenues will be less but their expenses will be less also.

And it's clear that they plan to re-use the technology developed in AoC for other projects, so saying that 50M was invested just in AoC isn't accurate.

I wouldn't want to be in their shoes, but saying that they are going to be bankrupt is rushed.

Originally posted by ZigiRage

And it's clear that they plan to re-use the technology developed in AoC for other projects, so saying that 50M was invested just in AoC isn't accurate.

Dear god, no! Isnt it enough that one game and the entire reputation of a company is ruined. They cant seriously think about re-using anything from AoC. :)

Originally posted by hobo9766

The thread I started on funcom stock falling is locked now and I have gotten a mod warning. I would like someone in charge to comment on this. We are not allowed to discuss the stock prices of game companies anymore?

So you decided to hang out here to look for attention by talking about a thread that got locked in which you were warned by a moderator.

That's real pertinent to AOC.  Are you bored with Warhammer already or something? 

Originally posted by AmazingAvery

I think you have to question the motives of those who post stock information especially if they don't care for the game or company at all. They turn into flame bait threads. Sure its good to know how a company is doing but 98% of current subscribers only care about whats going on in the game. When you have 15 stock thread posts in a few week spaces from that type of person mentioned above then you have to ask where can people talk about the game itself. As I said i question the motives of those who post stock info, we don't see it in any other game from people who don't play anymore. EA's 52 week low, NCsoft laying off staff and merging etc.

The forums here I thought are not for a daily report of minute by minute stock concerns. These are not business forums.

EA and NCsoft didn't scam a couple hundred thousand people recently either, and with how Funcom played the secrecy game and put out boxes that advertised things not in the game then, or even now, people are going to take their revenge.

If you don't like it, that's just too damn bad really.  Other companies will hopefully take notice of the war against funcom by ex-AoC players and see that as a reason to improve how they do their releases.  The best thing for the MMO industry would be fore AoC to get destroyed by the players that were burned by Funcom's shady actions.  If companies see that hyping a game and then trying to PR-spin the suck to keep people going is going to risk your company going under, maybe companies will keep in mind to never, EVER pull the shit funcom did.

Hell look at WHO, there was an announcement that some classes/areas weren't going to make it for launch, which pissed people off.  However, not saying anything until after launch would've turned those pissed off (yet probably still going to buy the game) people in to war-bashers that will make sure to return the pain to EA/Mythic like people are doing to funcom for their shady actions and dishonesty.

A person in your position needs to accept the fact that funcom epically fucked up and are being taken to the toolshed because of it.  Funcom's stocks being mentioned are valid because it's a good indication of the fight people are taking against funcom for AoC and that AoC was total hype and eyecandy so their stocks are suffering as any company's would due to such a failure.

Originally posted by zymurgeist

 

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Originally posted by Hamrtime2

 

Funny thing is...THEY STILL LOST MILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF BORROWED MONEY. You can sugarcoat it all you want but they are in big big trouble. Wait till Q3 when they say they only have 50k subs left and are in debt more then they were at Q2.

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No part of that is true. AoC was revenue neutral. It paid for itself. Anything it earns from here on out is income.

Except Funcom has to pay AoC's staff, and server costs, advertising...etc.

And they aren't going to have another 800k box sales and years of hype to help them in Q3.  I think Q3 is going to be extremely bleak for funcom regarding AoC and what they were looking to have from it.

Originally posted by Malthros

Originally posted by AmazingAvery

I think you have to question the motives of those who post stock information especially if they don't care for the game or company at all. They turn into flame bait threads. Sure its good to know how a company is doing but 98% of current subscribers only care about whats going on in the game. When you have 15 stock thread posts in a few week spaces from that type of person mentioned above then you have to ask where can people talk about the game itself. As I said i question the motives of those who post stock info, we don't see it in any other game from people who don't play anymore. EA's 52 week low, NCsoft laying off staff and merging etc.

The forums here I thought are not for a daily report of minute by minute stock concerns. These are not business forums.

 

EA and NCsoft didn't scam a couple hundred thousand people recently either, and with how Funcom played the secrecy game and put out boxes that advertised things not in the game then, or even now, people are going to take their revenge.

 

If you don't like it, that's just too damn bad really.  Other companies will hopefully take notice of the war against funcom by ex-AoC players and see that as a reason to improve how they do their releases.  The best thing for the MMO industry would be fore AoC to get destroyed by the players that were burned by Funcom's shady actions.  If companies see that hyping a game and then trying to PR-spin the suck to keep people going is going to risk your company going under, maybe companies will keep in mind to never, EVER pull the shit funcom did.

 

Hell look at WHO, there was an announcement that some classes/areas weren't going to make it for launch, which pissed people off.  However, not saying anything until after launch would've turned those pissed off (yet probably still going to buy the game) people in to war-bashers that will make sure to return the pain to EA/Mythic like people are doing to funcom for their shady actions and dishonesty.

 

A person in your position needs to accept the fact that funcom epically fucked up and are being taken to the toolshed because of it.  Funcom's stocks being mentioned are valid because it's a good indication of the fight people are taking against funcom for AoC and that AoC was total hype and eyecandy so their stocks are suffering as any company's would due to such a failure.

The problem isn't the content it's the context it's presented in. If It's meant to be inflammatory to users not to deter investors, who looks to this site for their investment analysis anyway?  It's causing more problems than it's helping anyone. You can attack funcom all you want, no one is going to stop you. However when you're breaching over into baiting territory, expect to be moderated. Telling people to live with it isn't helping anything, you're just on a path to more drama and hostility.

I could careless who likes or dislikes funcom, I only care about the quality of the discussion. Which in AOC's case is quite subpar. If you can even call it a discussion, it's more of a petty fued between two sides who simply can't except the other side feels differently. In reality both sides add to this nosensical argument about semantics and their own idea of what's in bounds and what's out.

Originally posted by Malickie

Originally posted by Malthros

Originally posted by AmazingAvery

I think you have to question the motives of those who post stock information especially if they don't care for the game or company at all. They turn into flame bait threads. Sure its good to know how a company is doing but 98% of current subscribers only care about whats going on in the game. When you have 15 stock thread posts in a few week spaces from that type of person mentioned above then you have to ask where can people talk about the game itself. As I said i question the motives of those who post stock info, we don't see it in any other game from people who don't play anymore. EA's 52 week low, NCsoft laying off staff and merging etc.

The forums here I thought are not for a daily report of minute by minute stock concerns. These are not business forums.

 

EA and NCsoft didn't scam a couple hundred thousand people recently either, and with how Funcom played the secrecy game and put out boxes that advertised things not in the game then, or even now, people are going to take their revenge.

 

If you don't like it, that's just too damn bad really.  Other companies will hopefully take notice of the war against funcom by ex-AoC players and see that as a reason to improve how they do their releases.  The best thing for the MMO industry would be fore AoC to get destroyed by the players that were burned by Funcom's shady actions.  If companies see that hyping a game and then trying to PR-spin the suck to keep people going is going to risk your company going under, maybe companies will keep in mind to never, EVER pull the shit funcom did.

 

Hell look at WHO, there was an announcement that some classes/areas weren't going to make it for launch, which pissed people off.  However, not saying anything until after launch would've turned those pissed off (yet probably still going to buy the game) people in to war-bashers that will make sure to return the pain to EA/Mythic like people are doing to funcom for their shady actions and dishonesty.

 

A person in your position needs to accept the fact that funcom epically fucked up and are being taken to the toolshed because of it.  Funcom's stocks being mentioned are valid because it's a good indication of the fight people are taking against funcom for AoC and that AoC was total hype and eyecandy so their stocks are suffering as any company's would due to such a failure.

The problem isn't the content it's the context it's presented in. If It's meant to be inflammatory to users not to deter investors, who looks to this site for their investment analysis anyway?  It's causing more problems than it's helping anyone. You can attack funcom all you want, no one is going to stop you. However when you're breaching over into baiting territory, expect to be moderated. Telling people to live with it isn't helping anything, you're just on a path to more drama and hostility.

I could careless who likes or dislikes funcom, I only care about the quality of the discussion. Which in AOC's case is quite subpar. If you can even call it a discussion, it's more of a petty fued between two sides who simply can't except the other side feels differently. In reality both sides add to this nosensical argument about semantics and their own idea of what's in bounds and what's out.

 

Every game is going to have their haters.  I dont care how good of a game you release there will be someone out there bashing it. What offsets those bashers are people who like to play a game which 99% of the time there are more of.   The problem we have with AoC is that the game sucked so bad that the haters overwhelmingly outweigh the people (few people at that) that like it.  So now you come to this site and its mostly "this game sucks", "stock is in the tank", "funcom will go bankrupt" etc etc.  Who is to blame for this?  Its not the mmo genre thats for sure....ITS FUNCOM.  They are to blame for putting out such a horid game, their shady business practices and bad customer service.
 

There are only a few games that have had this much abuse on this site and they are:

Dark and  Light

Vanguard

SWG NGE

Originally posted by ZigiRage

Originally posted by Azrile

This thread is just full of bad information

1.  Funcom is not in good shape.  They spent 50M to produce and launch AOC ( 22M they borrowed in February).  They only made 20% of box sales, which is 8M dollars.  The rest goes to retailers and distributers.  So basically they paid 50M to generate 8M.

3. Funcom LOST 8M in the 2nd quarter, despite the sales they got from boxes.  They also had about -15M in cashflow and currently only have enough cash for about 6 more months of operation.

4.  Funcom currently has 32M cash assets, and is in debt about 30M.   23M of that is short term debt which has to be repayed in the next 2 years.  Seeing how Funcom lost 8M in the second quarter, it makes it difficult to see where they are going to get that 23M from.

5.  All the major stock indexs are down about 5% over the past 2 years.  Funcom's stock is down 50% over the same period... and is down a whopping 80% since it's high in may.   When stock markets have 'bad' days.. it's usually 2-3%....  Funcom has had about 10 days in the past month where it's stock has dropped more than 10% and it hasn't had two positive days in a row since June.

6.  Even with 800k box sales and 400k subscribers in the 2nd quarter.. Funcom LOST 8M dollars.  How much bigger will that loss be when they don't have 800k box sales.

 

 

I agree that they are not in a great condition, but they are not in as bad situation as you claim.
They have 21.8M in short term debt, but they have 32M cash to cover it, 18M trade debtors (so let's say 10% is written off, so it's ~16M). That short term debt isn't nearly as bad, as you made it look.

Also their operating expenses will be much lower than in Q2, which was 15m. It'll be more along the lines of 5M. Their revenues will be less but their expenses will be less also.

And it's clear that they plan to re-use the technology developed in AoC for other projects, so saying that 50M was invested just in AoC isn't accurate.

I wouldn't want to be in their shoes, but saying that they are going to be bankrupt is rushed.

Their expenses will definitely be less than in the 2Q.. but their revenues will be SIGNIFICANLY less.

Yes, on the surface you can say that they have 21.8M in short term debt, and 32M in cash to cover it.. but what that fails to address is that in the 2nd Quarter, they had 16M in negative cash flow.  That means that 32M will be eaten up just paying operational costs for the next 6 months.  Granted, the 16M negative cash flow is not likely to be repeated in the 3rd quarter, but it will still be a signifant portion of that 32M.   My guess is at the end of the 3rd Quarter, they will still have that 22M in debt, but will only have 20M in cash assets ( in other words, they will have neg cash flow of 12M).

The question is.. which will come first..   Will Funcom run through that 32M in cash assets, or will that 22M in debt come due.

No matter what, the company is operating at a deficit and has significant short term debt.  It has nothing going to happen in the next 6 months that is anything at all they can look forward to.  

Mark my words, Funcom will be announcing the shutdown/sale of AOC or bankruptcy by the end of this year.

Maybe, in the end  depends on the impact and staying power of wotlk and warhammer. Most players don't subscribe for more than 2 mmorpg's at the same time for large periods of time.  And i'm being optimistic. most subs just to one game.

Even not being so negative about FC financial status and destiny, I wouldnt like to be in their position.

Originally posted by Hamrtime2

Every game is going to have their haters.  I dont care how good of a game you release there will be someone out there bashing it. What offsets those bashers are people who like to play a game which 99% of the time there are more of.   The problem we have with AoC is that the game sucked so bad that the haters overwhelmingly outweigh the people (few people at that) that like it.  So now you come to this site and its mostly "this game sucks", "stock is in the tank", "funcom will go bankrupt" etc etc.  Who is to blame for this?  Its not the mmo genre thats for sure....ITS FUNCOM.  They are to blame for putting out such a horid game, their shady business practices and bad customer service.
 

There are only a few games that have had this much abuse on this site and they are:

Dark and  Light

Vanguard

SWG NGE

 

Very true, yet there is a bit more unneeded hostility between posters here, than there were even over on the vet refuge. That's saying something man, it really is. I came here after SWG was completely destroyed, which basically turned me into a forum whore. I was there for vg:soh beta and launch, now I'm here for AOC, maybe I'm bad luck?

You're right though it is in the end Funcoms fault, no they're not controlling anyone's actions. However, they continually fuel the fire. Through both their silence and their overdrawn hype and arrogance. Like I originally said, I really don't care what side a poster is on. I try and treat them with the same respect, I wish to receive in return.

BTW did you play SWG ? Just curious, A jedi with same name was on my server in a guild called AXIS.

Originally posted by Azrile

This thread is just full of bad information

1.  Funcom is not in good shape.  They spent 50M to produce and launch AOC ( 22M they borrowed in February).  They only made 20% of box sales, which is 8M dollars.  The rest goes to retailers and distributers.  So basically they paid 50M to generate 8M.

3. Funcom LOST 8M in the 2nd quarter, despite the sales they got from boxes.  They also had about -15M in cashflow and currently only have enough cash for about 6 more months of operation.

4.  Funcom currently has 32M cash assets, and is in debt about 30M.   23M of that is short term debt which has to be repayed in the next 2 years.  Seeing how Funcom lost 8M in the second quarter, it makes it difficult to see where they are going to get that 23M from.

5.  All the major stock indexs are down about 5% over the past 2 years.  Funcom's stock is down 50% over the same period... and is down a whopping 80% since it's high in may.   When stock markets have 'bad' days.. it's usually 2-3%....  Funcom has had about 10 days in the past month where it's stock has dropped more than 10% and it hasn't had two positive days in a row since June.

6.  Even with 800k box sales and 400k subscribers in the 2nd quarter.. Funcom LOST 8M dollars.  How much bigger will that loss be when they don't have 800k box sales.

Learn to read a quarterly report. Funcom has 36M in cash assets and 21M in short term debt.  Even though they spent a considerable amount  launching the game they still have more in cash assets and more total worth than the same time last year. Considerably more. They're making money not going broke. One day you people will realize AOC isn't Funcom's only source of revenue and they actually made money when AOC was all expense and no income.

Originally posted by SgtFrog

Originally posted by hobo9766

 

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Originally posted by SgtFrog
also what has stock prices gotta do wit mmorpg itself. gameplay wise...

 

its  business and if you want to discuss business go to another forum.

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If the MMO company goes out of business then the game is over. You won't be playing ever.

 

it wont. Vanguard was in a worse situation ad its still going so no need to talk about stock prices.

its not that easy for an mmo to go down.

3 silver bullets to the brain, a golden stake through the heart, garlic infused .50 rounds to the lower body and a napalm bomb filled with holy water should do it...

No matter what ppl are arguing about.  The stocs just took another dive today (-13%) and under 9 Nkr.  the stocks are now getting close to 50% LOWER value than they were when the company went on the stockmarket.  

Maybe the company will be able to turn it around.  But I guess even the investrors can figure out that 49 half empty servers that cost loads of money to maintain + big releases from other MMOs will hit the revenues really hard.   

No matter what FUncom is promising atm - AOC is no longer their priority.   Cause it simply will not make them money - they will keep on loosing money.

Well guys lets put it this way when AO was released it was huge flop they game was basically broken, Funcom was way way more in debt and without money ...  it went so far that they made game free until its fixed ( that was at release )

AO never really recovered from release fiasco and now 7 years later they still support that game, despite everything.

People are just naive if they think Funcom will flop because of AoC, or they dont plan to support it anymore etc...

If worse come to worse they can A:) Downsize the company a lot ( so far they are still hiring) , B:) Sell the AoC etc...

Funcom will still support the game they worked ON and maybe after 6 months to a year if they see they cant make AoC main stream MMO and will stay in same subs numbers as Lotro/EQ2/Linage II etc..  they can decide  to provide only limited support to the game. ( as Sony did with vanguard )

The fact is the game was released unfinished ( well most does ) with huge lack of end game content and with borked features ( most MMO's did that way better then Funcom did ) .

There are stil a lot of players playing and enjoying it so its not as bad as some want you to think ... heh but its far from good either.

Making game so easy to level up then not providing good end game content is ...

p.s. Still playing Age of Conan and have fun, despite the flaws :)

Update on the stocks

Going under 8 NKR now.

And ppl are STILL SELLING like no tomorrow.

over 18% fall in 4 hours.   PPL are fine to say everything is just fine.  But it doesn't mean that everything is fine...

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by Azrile

This thread is just full of bad information

1.  Funcom is not in good shape.  They spent 50M to produce and launch AOC ( 22M they borrowed in February).  They only made 20% of box sales, which is 8M dollars.  The rest goes to retailers and distributers.  So basically they paid 50M to generate 8M.

3. Funcom LOST 8M in the 2nd quarter, despite the sales they got from boxes.  They also had about -15M in cashflow and currently only have enough cash for about 6 more months of operation.

4.  Funcom currently has 32M cash assets, and is in debt about 30M.   23M of that is short term debt which has to be repayed in the next 2 years.  Seeing how Funcom lost 8M in the second quarter, it makes it difficult to see where they are going to get that 23M from.

5.  All the major stock indexs are down about 5% over the past 2 years.  Funcom's stock is down 50% over the same period... and is down a whopping 80% since it's high in may.   When stock markets have 'bad' days.. it's usually 2-3%....  Funcom has had about 10 days in the past month where it's stock has dropped more than 10% and it hasn't had two positive days in a row since June.

6.  Even with 800k box sales and 400k subscribers in the 2nd quarter.. Funcom LOST 8M dollars.  How much bigger will that loss be when they don't have 800k box sales.

 

Learn to read a quarterly report. Funcom has 36M in cash assets and 21M in short term debt.  Even though they spent a considerable amount  launching the game they still have more in cash assets and more total worth than the same time last year. Considerably more. They're making money not going broke. One day you people will realize AOC isn't Funcom's only source of revenue and they actually made money when AOC was all expense and no income.

Funcom has NEVER made money.  They have had negative EPS every quarter since they have been a publicly traded company.  In the second quarter they lost  7.1M,  in 2Q07 they only lost 1.7M.   You continue to confuse 'sales' with 'profits'.  Yes.. funcom has plenty of income, but they are spending far more than they are bringing in.. that is what that Negative means in front of the 7.1 and 1.7 in the quarterly report.  In fact, if you look at the financial report, almost every number has a big negative in front of it. 

Yes, Funcom has more in cash assets than they ever did in their past (32M), but that is ENTIRELY borrowed money.    If I have 0 money, and I borrow 23M dollars, suddenly.. guess what.. I have 23M in cash assets. Look at the financials.. last year Funcom had 4M in debt... now they have 25M.   In February, Funcom borrowed 23M and that is the only reason their 'cash assets' jumped.  They convinced somebody that AoC was going to be the next WOW.   That bank had as huge of an 'awakening' as players had with launch.  They were expecting funcom to be profitable and to be able to pay them back.. instead Funcom lost 8M and it's stock is tanking.  The person who approved that loan probably feels like a player who bought the CE addition and a 6 month subscription. :)

The key thing to look for in the 2Q report are two lines

1. Cash assets at beginning of period     52M 
2.  Cash assets at end of period   36M
Net cash flow =  Negative 16M

Stock is down below $8 per share..  that is half of what it was when the company went public 5 years ago.

Originally posted by Azrile

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by Azrile

This thread is just full of bad information

1.  Funcom is not in good shape.  They spent 50M to produce and launch AOC ( 22M they borrowed in February).  They only made 20% of box sales, which is 8M dollars.  The rest goes to retailers and distributers.  So basically they paid 50M to generate 8M.

3. Funcom LOST 8M in the 2nd quarter, despite the sales they got from boxes.  They also had about -15M in cashflow and currently only have enough cash for about 6 more months of operation.

4.  Funcom currently has 32M cash assets, and is in debt about 30M.   23M of that is short term debt which has to be repayed in the next 2 years.  Seeing how Funcom lost 8M in the second quarter, it makes it difficult to see where they are going to get that 23M from.

5.  All the major stock indexs are down about 5% over the past 2 years.  Funcom's stock is down 50% over the same period... and is down a whopping 80% since it's high in may.   When stock markets have 'bad' days.. it's usually 2-3%....  Funcom has had about 10 days in the past month where it's stock has dropped more than 10% and it hasn't had two positive days in a row since June.

6.  Even with 800k box sales and 400k subscribers in the 2nd quarter.. Funcom LOST 8M dollars.  How much bigger will that loss be when they don't have 800k box sales.

 

Learn to read a quarterly report. Funcom has 36M in cash assets and 21M in short term debt.  Even though they spent a considerable amount  launching the game they still have more in cash assets and more total worth than the same time last year. Considerably more. They're making money not going broke. One day you people will realize AOC isn't Funcom's only source of revenue and they actually made money when AOC was all expense and no income.

 

Funcom has NEVER made money.  They have had negative EPS every quarter since they have been a publicly traded company.  In the second quarter they lost  7.1M,  in 2Q07 they only lost 1.7M.   You continue to confuse 'sales' with 'profits'.  Yes.. funcom has plenty of income, but they are spending far more than they are bringing in.. that is what that Negative means in front of the 7.1 and 1.7 in the quarterly report.  In fact, if you look at the financial report, almost every number has a big negative in front of it. 

Yes, Funcom has more in cash assets than they ever did in their past (32M), but that is ENTIRELY borrowed money.    If I have 0 money, and I borrow 23M dollars, suddenly.. guess what.. I have 23M in cash assets. Look at the financials.. last year Funcom had 4M in debt... now they have 25M.   In February, Funcom borrowed 23M and that is the only reason their 'cash assets' jumped.  They convinced somebody that AoC was going to be the next WOW.   That bank had as huge of an 'awakening' as players had with launch.  They were expecting funcom to be profitable and to be able to pay them back.. instead Funcom lost 8M and it's stock is tanking.  The person who approved that loan probably feels like a player who bought the CE addition and a 6 month subscription. :)

The key thing to look for in the 2Q report are two lines

1. Cash assets at beginning of period     52M 
2.  Cash assets at end of period   36M
Net cash flow =  Negative 16M

Stock is down below $8 per share..  that is half of what it was when the company went public 5 years ago.

/Applause

Concise, concrete and correct. Excellent post.

We're $7.70 now and no mod has answered my question. Pretty soon I may have to change this threads topic to "how funcom bankruptcy effects aoc".

Originally posted by Azrile

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by Azrile

This thread is just full of bad information

1.  Funcom is not in good shape.  They spent 50M to produce and launch AOC ( 22M they borrowed in February).  They only made 20% of box sales, which is 8M dollars.  The rest goes to retailers and distributers.  So basically they paid 50M to generate 8M.

3. Funcom LOST 8M in the 2nd quarter, despite the sales they got from boxes.  They also had about -15M in cashflow and currently only have enough cash for about 6 more months of operation.

4.  Funcom currently has 32M cash assets, and is in debt about 30M.   23M of that is short term debt which has to be repayed in the next 2 years.  Seeing how Funcom lost 8M in the second quarter, it makes it difficult to see where they are going to get that 23M from.

5.  All the major stock indexs are down about 5% over the past 2 years.  Funcom's stock is down 50% over the same period... and is down a whopping 80% since it's high in may.   When stock markets have 'bad' days.. it's usually 2-3%....  Funcom has had about 10 days in the past month where it's stock has dropped more than 10% and it hasn't had two positive days in a row since June.

6.  Even with 800k box sales and 400k subscribers in the 2nd quarter.. Funcom LOST 8M dollars.  How much bigger will that loss be when they don't have 800k box sales.

 

Learn to read a quarterly report. Funcom has 36M in cash assets and 21M in short term debt.  Even though they spent a considerable amount  launching the game they still have more in cash assets and more total worth than the same time last year. Considerably more. They're making money not going broke. One day you people will realize AOC isn't Funcom's only source of revenue and they actually made money when AOC was all expense and no income.

 

Funcom has NEVER made money.  They have had negative EPS every quarter since they have been a publicly traded company.  In the second quarter they lost  7.1M,  in 2Q07 they only lost 1.7M.   You continue to confuse 'sales' with 'profits'.  Yes.. funcom has plenty of income, but they are spending far more than they are bringing in.. that is what that Negative means in front of the 7.1 and 1.7 in the quarterly report.  In fact, if you look at the financial report, almost every number has a big negative in front of it. 

Yes, Funcom has more in cash assets than they ever did in their past (32M), but that is ENTIRELY borrowed money.    If I have 0 money, and I borrow 23M dollars, suddenly.. guess what.. I have 23M in cash assets. Look at the financials.. last year Funcom had 4M in debt... now they have 25M.   In February, Funcom borrowed 23M and that is the only reason their 'cash assets' jumped.  They convinced somebody that AoC was going to be the next WOW.   That bank had as huge of an 'awakening' as players had with launch.  They were expecting funcom to be profitable and to be able to pay them back.. instead Funcom lost 8M and it's stock is tanking.  The person who approved that loan probably feels like a player who bought the CE addition and a 6 month subscription. :)

The key thing to look for in the 2Q report are two lines

1. Cash assets at beginning of period     52M 
2.  Cash assets at end of period   36M
Net cash flow =  Negative 16M

Stock is down below $8 per share..  that is half of what it was when the company went public 5 years ago.

Sorry Zymurgeist but Azrile 8/10 and you a tardy 2/10 in this debate
 

He's factually correct in his understanding of the financial state of Funcom :)

Originally posted by IKShadow

Well guys lets put it this way when AO was released it was huge flop they game was basically broken, Funcom was way way more in debt and without money ...  it went so far that they made game free until its fixed ( that was at release )

AO never really recovered from release fiasco and now 7 years later they still support that game, despite everything.

People are just naive if they think Funcom will flop because of AoC, or they dont plan to support it anymore etc...

If worse come to worse they can A:) Downsize the company a lot ( so far they are still hiring) , B:) Sell the AoC etc...

Funcom will still support the game they worked ON and maybe after 6 months to a year if they see they cant make AoC main stream MMO and will stay in same subs numbers as Lotro/EQ2/Linage II etc..  they can decide  to provide only limited support to the game. ( as Sony did with vanguard )

The fact is the game was released unfinished ( well most does ) with huge lack of end game content and with borked features ( most MMO's did that way better then Funcom did ) .

There are stil a lot of players playing and enjoying it so its not as bad as some want you to think ... heh but its far from good either.

Making game so easy to level up then not providing good end game content is ...

p.s. Still playing Age of Conan and have fun, despite the flaws :)

There is a difference between AO and AOC.

The past 5 years, they have been 'supporting' AO because the company could borrow against the release of AOC.  For the past 5 years this company has stayed alive on the dream that is AOC.  First, 5 years ago they went public....this brought in a huge amount of money.  The IPO was ALL ABOUT AOC.   Then, over the past year, they have borrowed money directly from the bank against AOC.

AOC has been the thing in their future that they could point to to justify the loans and IPO.  

The problem is that Funcom has NOTHING in its future that they can now say " we will become profitable when......".    If they weren't profitable with AOC in the 2nd quarter when they had 800k boxes sell, they will never be profitable.  That is why the stock continues to nosedive day after day.

You are right, at some point they will try to sell AOC.... but who will buy it?     EA has Warhammer, Sony has EQ2....   What company is going to pay any significant money for the right to support a game that is bleeding subscribers.  Would you spend money to buy a game that loses money?  If they do sell AOC, it will be put on serious life support.. no devs, no real support.  When you have games that are growing and thriving like LotRO, Warhammer and WOW... do you really want to play a game that never gets updated?

I think you are being a little too sentimental if you think AOC won't be closed down because the devs worked 5 years on the game.  That isn't how companies operate.

Originally posted by Azrile

 

Funcom has NEVER made money. 

This is what's known as the "big lie" Learn to read annual reports.

Avery I am still waiting on your reply......

Avery's Challenge

BTW... FC is actually lower in stock value than I actually thought possible.... 7.70 atm.

I think they havent server merged due to the impending shutdown....

Well at $7.51 now. I expect some sort of press release today by funcom on the AOC expansion or the ao engine to try and stop this fall if its not already to late.

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by Azrile

 

Funcom has NEVER made money. 

 

This is what's known as the "big lie" Learn to read annual reports.

haha.   350k sold shares today show you are wrong.  Stock has now lost 20% of it's value in 5hrs this morning.

I wonder if Lit got banned again?

Originally posted by Azrile

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by Azrile

 

Funcom has NEVER made money. 

 

This is what's known as the "big lie" Learn to read annual reports.

 

haha.   350k sold shares today show you are wrong.  Stock has now lost 20% of it's value in 5hrs this morning.

I wonder if Lit got banned again?

Even if the stock hits zero it doesn't mean the company is broke. Learn what stocks are.