First let me say my first MMO was Star Wars Galaxies in 2003. Now that you know where I come from you may better understand my post.

Why can developers no longer give us options?

Character creation comparison chart:

In SWG in 2003 (5 years ago) here were examples of customization sliders and options:

Height
Age
Weight
Muscle Mass
Bust Size (Chest Size for male avatars)
Freckle Sliders
Eyebrow Color
Eye Makeup Slider
Eye Makeup Color Selection
Lip Color Selection
Skin Color
Eye Size
Eye Slant
Eye Shape
Nose Protrusion
Nose Length
Nose Width
Mouth Width
Lip Thickness
Chin Protrusion
Jaw Width
Ear Size
Eye Color Selection
Hairdo Options
Facial Hair Options

and that was just for the humans…

In EQ2, which I believe came out in 2004 here were the options

Height
Age
Skin Color
Hair Color
Hair Highlight Color
Hairdo
Facial Hair
Eye Color
Eye Slant
Eyebrow Height
Eyebrow Angle
Eyebrow Curve
Ear Size
Ear Height
Cheek Fullness
Cheekbone Height
Chin Thickness
Chin Length
Chin Protrusion
Underwear Color (they changed this at some point)
Nose Size (there may have been several options here I don’t remember)
Lip Size (same)

again this is for humans… barbarians had woad options and woodelves had tatoos

Now look at what we can change:

LOTRO: 2007
Body Width
Choose between half a dozen preset heads
Skin Color
Hair Color
Hairdo
Choose between wrinkles/freckles/mole/scar
Eye Color
Optional Eye Wrinkles/Tiaras for elves

WAR: 2008
Skin color
Hairdo
Hair Color
Scars/Tiaras/Tatoos
Preset Heads
Eye Color

Is it just me, or do I observe development going BACKWARDS? *pulls out magnifying glass and deerstalker hat*

Don’t get me wrong, I am going to sub to WAR, and LOTRO was pretty fun, but why don’t they make ‘em like they used to?
 

Gotta agree, the graphics in general are sub par, but understandable given RvR nature of the game, Im fine with them now, but the customization is definately lacking, and im not aware of any real reasons for it.

I think some of it has to do with how lazy developers believe people are. Now that you had all those options how many did you actually use? I certinatly used very little of them. Tended to keep the body fit-looking and the nose average sized and what not. Really didn't change terribly much. Think develo[pers want to cash in on this and spend time on other stuff and ignore this.

You could be right., still though WAR's is extremely limited.

I used most sliders, actually.

you would be surprised how much difference even a slight adjustment will make.

yeah it has been scaled back quite a bit.  i think its a sign of the "new" players that are coming through.  those that have never read a decent book, played an RPG or played enough games to appreciate customisation.  a concern is i dont see it getting any better

People mostly end up covered in armor.

Originally posted by Death1942

yeah it has been scaled back quite a bit.  i think its a sign of the "new" players that are coming through.  those that have never read a decent book, played an RPG or played enough games to appreciate customisation.  a concern is i dont see it getting any better

It is sooo unfortunate!  I know I care more than some people about the way my character looks, but in older games I really felt like my character was an extension of ME, like they fulfilled a part of my personality that I didn't express in day to day life.  (Don't laugh!)  Now they have become "toons".  They have more of a generic, plasticized feel with no flexibility.  I keep waiting for a game that will bring it back, but I may be waiting a very long time.

edit - Noggin, in my eyes this also is a flaw.  I don't want everyone running around in the same armor look either, and SWG did not help that at all.  The clothes were good though.

 Because it's all in the name of streamlining and simplifying the next generation MMO's to appeal to a broader range of potential players. It can bring in loads more players who would otherwise be heading to the exit door, due to a very short attention span,and steep learning curve.  It's Also about the cost. Takes longer to make a MMO deeper in depth.

 I was a SWG player too, still am. I returned a month ago, and was pleasantly surprised by the improvements the new dev team had done to the game during the last 2 years, It's got some of it's depth back again. Enough so the game is now something I can enjoy again.

if they wont improve the customisation at character creation then at the very least they should improve weapon and armour customisation.  WAR and LoTRO seemed to be heading down this line...

Originally posted by ketrine

edit - Noggin, in my eyes this also is a flaw.  I don't want everyone running around in the same armor look either, and SWG did not help that at all.  The clothes were good though.

Yep I'm not saying it's right, just trying to answer the question in the title.

I always just hit random face in games like EQ2 or SWG but atleast I looked different from everyone else unlike in WOW and WAR where you all look the same. the thing I really love about SWG though is being able to customize your character once in the game which is really kool because I can just suddenly make myself really fat if I wanted.

I think it comes down to money.  Developers have a fixed amount of money to make a game with.  And as graphics became and more and detailed, character modeling gets more and more expensive.

Originally posted by PapaLazarou

I always just hit random face in games like EQ2 or SWG but atleast I looked different from everyone else unlike in WOW and WAR where you all look the same. the thing I really love about SWG though is being able to customize your character once in the game which is really kool because I can just suddenly make myself really fat if I wanted.

Hehe.. i knew people who did this.  They would roleplay that their character had a bout of depression and started eating too many sweets.  When they were finished they would "loose" the weight.

trancejeremy:  There should be a range of games though.  Just because McDonalds is successful doesn't mean Olive Garden won't be.  I might add that I would be willing to pay a slightly higher sub fee for a higher quality game, but it seems the MMO developers are convinced that everyone only wants greasy cheeseburger game content and a side of fries character.

a lot of it has to do with performance and optimization.

the newer engines are way more complex and gpu intensive.  The more customization the more they have to handle pesky issues like having 150 people on the screen.

I'm not saying its right or wrong.

btw Vanguard has just recently re-introduced a lot of the sliders you speak of.

Yeah, MMO's are going backwards in almost every way these days, and character customization is just one of them. I loved how you could do almost anything to your character's face in Vanguard before it got removed. I made a qualiathari (Araby-ish continent) necromancer who was really mean looking with the classic hooked nose of an arabian thug of old movies etc, and my friend managed to make a char that looked EXACTLY like himself IRL. Fun stuff

Originally posted by Death1942

yeah it has been scaled back quite a bit.  i think its a sign of the "new" players that are coming through.  those that have never read a decent book, played an RPG or played enough games to appreciate customisation.  a concern is i dont see it getting any better

There is definately a digital divide between the new, fairly obtuse mmo player vs the older more seasoned and discerning one. According to ESRB the average mmo player is about 33 years old, but apparently we're a silent majority who's expectations and desires in mmos are being subjugated by Wow's inflated and somewhat misunderstood numbers.  Wow has about 4million players in North America and Europe the rest are chinese players paying 6 cents an hour recruited by a marketing company called the 9 who distributed the game for free (not just a free trial), and many of those players are farming items to sell to the other 4million via intermediaries. Based on the high unemployment in China, selling items in wow can offer jobs to the jobless and a means to feed themselves. Wow, being solo friendly, allows them to operate undisturbed and unassisted making it fertile soil for any aspiring gold farmer. I got no problem with that, but what this has done has convinced companies that simplicity and overly solo friendly gameplay is the paradigm that pays, and they may be right, but it doesn't advance the genre one bit.

Originally posted by Noggin

People mostly end up covered in armor.

this

Really I don't know. With EQ they managed to do an MMO with amazing content and nobody talked about $50M for developement.

Originally posted by ketrine

  There should be a range of games though.  Just because McDonalds is successful doesn't mean Olive Garden won't be.  I might add that I would be willing to pay a slightly higher sub fee for a higher quality game, but it seems the MMO developers are convinced that everyone only wants greasy cheeseburger game content and a side of fries character.

And there lies your answer...McDs is easier, faster and cheaper to work with. Something such as Olive Garden requires more work, time, care n costs more.

Things are looking more like the f2p games. I think it is these F2P games that are killing P2P games. Devs figure if ppl are willing to play XX f2p game with limited options, the will prolly play our p2p games with the same limited options.

City of Heroes has a LOT more option than that for look...however many peoples would argue it has very little else.

Devs have to make choices as to where to give players options, what will make the players...PLAY or grant a lasting pleasure.  Each look variation may lead to lag, which is hard on any game involving multiple players interactions.

EvE, WAR and WoW all have this comon thing, they make sure that look/customisation don't lag you much.  In CoX, having 20 players in the same area already produce some gaming performance issues on some systems...especially if they are in a grid-base!

Developers will sell us what we allow them to sell us. Stop subscribing to crap and they will be forced to improve their product.

To put it into perspective though, what you are discussing is character customisation, not the actual games themselves. 

Originally posted by ketrine

First let me say my first MMO was Star Wars Galaxies in 2003. Now that you know where I come from you may better understand my post.

Why can developers no longer give us options?

Character creation comparison chart:

In SWG in 2003 (5 years ago) here were examples of customization sliders and options:

Height
Age
Weight
Muscle Mass
Bust Size (Chest Size for male avatars)
Freckle Sliders
Eyebrow Color
Eye Makeup Slider
Eye Makeup Color Selection
Lip Color Selection
Skin Color
Eye Size
Eye Slant
Eye Shape
Nose Protrusion
Nose Length
Nose Width
Mouth Width
Lip Thickness
Chin Protrusion
Jaw Width
Ear Size
Eye Color Selection
Hairdo Options
Facial Hair Options

and that was just for the humans…

In EQ2, which I believe came out in 2004 here were the options

Height
Age
Skin Color
Hair Color
Hair Highlight Color
Hairdo
Facial Hair
Eye Color
Eye Slant
Eyebrow Height
Eyebrow Angle
Eyebrow Curve
Ear Size
Ear Height
Cheek Fullness
Cheekbone Height
Chin Thickness
Chin Length
Chin Protrusion
Underwear Color (they changed this at some point)
Nose Size (there may have been several options here I don’t remember)
Lip Size (same)

again this is for humans… barbarians had woad options and woodelves had tatoos

Now look at what we can change:

LOTRO: 2007
Body Width
Choose between half a dozen preset heads
Skin Color
Hair Color
Hairdo
Choose between wrinkles/freckles/mole/scar
Eye Color
Optional Eye Wrinkles/Tiaras for elves

WAR: 2008
Skin color
Hairdo
Hair Color
Scars/Tiaras/Tatoos
Preset Heads
Eye Color

Is it just me, or do I observe development going BACKWARDS? *pulls out magnifying glass and deerstalker hat*

Don’t get me wrong, I am going to sub to WAR, and LOTRO was pretty fun, but why don’t they make ‘em like they used to?
 

Well think of it this way.  When was the last time in game you noticed someones chin size, eye colour, eye slant, eye brow width.
 

The truth is most of those options amount to less than a hill of beans.  They are just not obvious enough to the player.

Height, ear, muscle, and some head things, and body things are what people actually notice. 

Venge Sunsoar

Well, im starting to sound like a fanboy ( and i guess  I kinda am) but dear OP take a look at Fallen Earth ( www.fallenearth.com)  .  its one of those games that build on the past instead of forgetting it :)