I for one consider myself a true zealot, I dont DPS unless I have the time to get out of healing to do so ((which is extremly rare cause theres ALWAYS someone being damaged in RvR)). But what i notice is healers think there heals are some sort of luxury you give to your teammates and you dont HAVE to heal. Which in fact your MAIN priority should be healing/support. If you want to DPS why not role a more efficient DPSer Sorc or w/e. Its not like your getting more xp/renown if you DPS. In fact im ALWAYS and i mean ALWAYS on top when i heal/DoT (I dot only cause the mix of damage and healing seems to give huge bonuses in renown.

Anywayz all im saying is if you role a healer heal. O and btw alittle advice to zealots and runepriests. One of your most effective tools is battle rezzing. I notice alot of us dont do it.

Askar (pro Zealot)

best tool is the heal button, followed by the detaunt button. I like how hard it is to heal, not just anyone can spam a  "flash heal" type spell.

if people dont play zelot well and dont play runie well, they will fail and they will fall behind in point standings and wont matter... they will eventually quit and reroll.

Originally posted by kraiden

best tool is the heal button, followed by the detaunt button. I like how hard it is to heal, not just anyone can spam a  "flash heal" type spell.

if people dont play zelot well and dont play runie well, they will fail and they will fall behind in point standings and wont matter... they will eventually quit and reroll.

Totally agree

I noticed also that ALOT of these healers dont know how to kite...they think there a pally from WoW and just stand still lol.

Originally posted by Kailash

Anywayz all [I'm] saying is if you [roll] a healer[,] heal. [Oh] and btw [a little] advice to [Zealots] and [Rune Priests][:] One of your most effective tools is battle rezzing. I notice [a lot] of us [don't] do it.

Well, from my experiences in beta, I can see two sides to this:

On one hand, you're right that not enough healers are healing.  Sometimes we went into battle with three Archmages and nobody seem to be getting healing.  Basically, a lot of players are newbies still learning the ins and outs of their classes.

On the other hand, you have to understand that healers in WO:AR do more than just healing.  This applies even more than other MMORPGs!  The balance is built so. 

Warrior Priests pull double duty as a tank.   They're like Paladins with full potency heals. The stereotypical "stand back and heal" approach undermines their tanking capability.

Rune Priests have some very important buffs and debuffs to apply, as well as some damage potential.   Telling a Rune Priest to just spam heals is signing your own death warrent.

Archmages have a very good excuse to be nuking.  Nuking builds "Tranquility" that greatly powers up the first healing spell cast after a string of nuking.  Then, healing builds up "Force" that greatly powers up a good nuke.  Dead enemies don't hurt allies. 

WO:AR's got enough subtle rule changes that you can't pull the same assumptions from other MMORPGs here.

The issue isn't asking for better healers, but the quality of healers.  Most people play the DPS with a side of healing and lose in scenarios.  While they may do a respectable amount of damage, they lose on the winning XP bonus.  Offhand I think winning is a 5k xp bonus, to the losing side 2k bonus.

The problem will always exist with solo and group oriented players.   I think the only soultion is the focus on developing a core base of players to group with.  It's frustrating trying to focus random groups in scenarios, but the real solution is to get regular players together.

Edit:  I also wanted to add to the poster above me, when I look at the scenario breakdowns I looked at the ratios for classes.  If you are running a 3-1 damage-healing ratio as a melee healer, you are neglecting your teammates.  So I would say that ratios tell the tale of how effective a "healer" is.  It's harder to gauge on a tank, because there is no damage taken field on the breakdown.  Usually I see good zealots around, 1-6, DoK 1-2, shaman 1-1 to 1-4.  If you look at the top damage dealer along with the top healer you can take ratios based on how effective players are. 

Typically I will also tell players what to do if they expect heals.  For instance if I see people let BWs nuke them down while I'm on my Zealot.  I will tell them if they don't take them out first, I will flat out refuse to heal them.  Bomb healing to counter nukes is a complete waste of time, and forces me to focus on one teammate.  Which in the end is more of the selfishness people need to drop in RvR.

Consider that Zealots and their runepriest counterparts are the only one with this ability to heal heal heal all the time with no penalties.

EVERY other healer will either run out of the secondary points and then he has to go in to melee bashing heads OR will have sub par heals that take too much time to cast.

 Not to mention that it seems Destruction at least on my server can identify and prioritize healers for killing quite often :D

But in general, yes, if you are a healer, people will expect you to heal in RvR and in PvE

Originally posted by geldonyetich

Originally posted by Kailash

Anywayz all [I'm] saying is if you [roll] a healer[,] heal. [Oh] and btw [a little] advice to [Zealots] and [Rune Priests][:] One of your most effective tools is battle rezzing. I notice [a lot] of us [don't] do it.

Well, from my experiences in beta, I can see two sides to this:

On one hand, you're right that not enough healers are healing.  Sometimes we went into battle with three Archmages and nobody seem to be getting healing.  Basically, a lot of players are newbies still learning the ins and outs of their classes.

On the other hand, you have to understand that healers in WO:AR do more than just healing.  This applies even more than other MMORPGs!  The balance is built so. 

Warrior Priests pull double duty as a tank.   They're like Paladins with full potency heals. The stereotypical "stand back and heal" approach undermines their tanking capability.

Rune Priests have some very important buffs and debuffs to apply, as well as some damage potential.   Telling a Rune Priest to just spam heals is signing your own death warrent.

Archmages have a very good excuse to be nuking.  Nuking builds "Tranquility" that greatly powers up the first healing spell cast after a string of nuking.  Then, healing builds up "Force" that greatly powers up a good nuke.  Dead enemies don't hurt allies.

WO:AR's got enough subtle rule changes that you can't pull the same assumptions from other MMORPGs here.

 

 

Ya I agree. I was really pointed this out to the "real" healers (rune priests/zealots). Where you dont have to damage at all and be extremly efficient. If theres one offensive thing that can really help out is the debuffs/dot combo's. My zealot has great debuffs.

Originally posted by Kailash

Ya I agree. I was really pointed this out to the "real" healers (rune priests/zealots). Where you dont have to damage at all and be extremly efficient. If theres one offensive thing that can really help out is the debuffs/dot combo's. My zealot has great debuffs.

Exactly!  Sounds like we're in agreement here.

Personally, I favor an ArchMage. Towards the end of a scenario I look up on the leaderboard and see I'm in the top healers in the game and also amongst the top damage dealers. I can do both. The same goes for any well played healer class in this game.  Not necessarily damage - for example, your Zealot's debuffs.  However, the capacity to do more than just healing is what will separate the great from the small.

Of course, your point that doing no healing at all is not using your class to its full potential is also very true.  Sometimes oyu will get the rare stubborn player who rolls a Cleric only to Smite.  We're all in agreement that those guys are clueless - roll a flippin' Wizard or something if nuking is all you want to do.  I don't mind roleplaying - I'm a bit fo a roleplayer as well - but come on, don't sabotage yourself!

Originally posted by Kailash

I for one consider myself a true zealot, I dont DPS unless I have the time to get out of healing to do so ((which is extremly rare cause theres ALWAYS someone being damaged in RvR)). But what i notice is healers think there heals are some sort of luxury you give to your teammates and you dont HAVE to heal. Which in fact your MAIN priority should be healing/support. If you want to DPS why not role a more efficient DPSer Sorc or w/e. Its not like your getting more xp/renown if you DPS. In fact im ALWAYS and i mean ALWAYS on top when i heal/DoT (I dot only cause the mix of damage and healing seems to give huge bonuses in renown.

Anywayz all im saying is if you role a healer heal. O and btw alittle advice to zealots and runepriests. One of your most effective tools is battle rezzing. I notice alot of us dont do it.

 

 

Askar (pro Zealot)

Wow,  FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DON'T SPAM. And secondly, who cares what you think. Obviously healers need to heal and only heal. You are bringing up a topic like you're our father trying to teach us how to play the classes we enjoy. Realizing you may be trying to help, I'm sorry. I'm not trying to be a dick. I just don't want to hear some random guy trying to teach me how to heal and acting as if he's an amazing healer. You're just like all of the other healers. You're there doing your job and helping out the team.

Thanks for the advice on battle rezzing. Still, no need to spam this topic.

Originally posted by xfrozenx

Originally posted by Kailash

I for one consider myself a true zealot, I dont DPS unless I have the time to get out of healing to do so ((which is extremly rare cause theres ALWAYS someone being damaged in RvR)). But what i notice is healers think there heals are some sort of luxury you give to your teammates and you dont HAVE to heal. Which in fact your MAIN priority should be healing/support. If you want to DPS why not role a more efficient DPSer Sorc or w/e. Its not like your getting more xp/renown if you DPS. In fact im ALWAYS and i mean ALWAYS on top when i heal/DoT (I dot only cause the mix of damage and healing seems to give huge bonuses in renown.

Anywayz all im saying is if you role a healer heal. O and btw alittle advice to zealots and runepriests. One of your most effective tools is battle rezzing. I notice alot of us dont do it.

 

 

Askar (pro Zealot)

 

Wow,  FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DON'T SPAM. And secondly, who cares what you think. Obviously healers need to heal and only heal. You are bringing up a topic like you're our father trying to teach us how to play the classes we enjoy. Realizing you may be trying to help, I'm sorry. I'm not trying to be a dick. I just don't want to hear some random guy trying to teach me how to heal and acting as if he's an amazing healer. You're just like all of the other healers. You're there doing your job and helping out the team.

 

Thanks for the advice on battle rezzing. Still, no need to spam this topic.

Thanks for your insight. But I acually asked for the other post  to be deleted cause there was a mix up on the topic creation. And no all Im pointing out is that there IS a diffrence between healers. Theres one healer thats stupid enough not to heal and the other that heals and does his PRIMARY job.
 

Feeling guilty Xfrozen?

Originally posted by Soraellion

Feeling guilty Xfrozen?

lol

In RvR scenarios during OB, I watched as groups of 3 to 5 tanks would run past everyone else and kill one healer after another and the strategy was working.

Healers may need to heal more, but they also need better protection.

Kind of off topic here, but I'm also not digging how snares are so stackable and spamable in this game.  Melee classes can run past the front lines, gang attack the healers, snare them to immobility and kill them while everyone else tries to burn down 4 or 5 tanks in the time it takes them to kill a healer... which doesn't happen.

Probably a worse problem for order healers as destruction seems to have outnumbered order by a wide margin on the servers I was playing on.

Originally posted by geldonyetich

Originally posted by Kailash

Ya I agree. I was really pointed this out to the "real" healers (rune priests/zealots). Where you dont have to damage at all and be extremly efficient. If theres one offensive thing that can really help out is the debuffs/dot combo's. My zealot has great debuffs.

 

Exactly!  Sounds like we're in agreement here.

Personally, I favor an ArchMage. Towards the end of a scenario I look up on the leaderboard and see I'm in the top healers in the game and also amongst the top damage dealers. I can do both. The same goes for any well played healer class in this game.  Not necessarily damage - for example, your Zealot's debuffs.  However, the capacity to do more than just healing is what will separate the great from the small.

Of course, your point that doing no healing at all is not using your class to its full potential is also very true.  Sometimes oyu will get the rare stubborn player who rolls a Cleric only to Smite.  We're all in agreement that those guys are clueless - roll a flippin' Wizard or something if nuking is all you want to do.  I don't mind roleplaying - I'm a bit fo a roleplayer as well - but come on, don't sabotage yourself!

lol ya well said man. Seriously I tried 5 times to roll on classes that werent a healer EVERYtime i did I got SO pissed at the healers on my team I said fuck it going back to my healer so we can win some games lol. Useing your class to its fulliest potencial is a huge factor and should be practiced. Anywayz im heading to bed good discussion and thx for reading :)