I'm watched a few WAR videos like this one (chosen at random, it's nothing special)...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pHAGtyNMz8

... and I'm so bored of these ridiculous fight moves. Is this the new generation of PvP?

I gather the Romans, and the Greeks knew a bit about warfare and yet they never trained their soldiers to approach the enemy jumping and spinning.

1) A player in full armour should not be able to jump

2) A player in full armour should not be able to spin around someone without them getting a free hit.

3) In order to actualy hit a target, the target should be within a limited arc of the sword arm, and in range. A poor angle should reduce the damage done.

4) If a jumping soldier is hit (as a light armour melee) he would most likely fall over due to poor balance in the stance, This would leave the opponent a good change for a free hit.

5) Running round a person is clearly slower than rotating a small amount to face someone, so unless you have just dodged a lunge of some form you should not be able to strike the opposition from the side.

I actually like PvP in MMOs but the actual PvP we get on screen is an embarrasing parody of combat and looks more like some bizarre dance game. Isn't it about time the PvP we got looked at least a little bit sensible.

warhammer has put a damper in the circle strafers and jumpers.. if you are standing while fighting and not jumping or moving you get a boost to your damage. and you auto face your target so it doesnt matter if hes running around you, you still hit him but with your dmg boost.

I have been finding this annoying for a long time, probably since daoc as that was my first mmo (with pvp). Why people like to jump around and all that fuss? And the problem is it worked for them too. Personally, like to fight face to face, 1 to 1 (or whatever) and don't do all that jumping around!

 Hee... I like bunny jumping!... I natturally gravitate towards classes that let you fight AND move. Like que squig herder, or the DoK.... or sould i call it the Dork? 

Originally posted by gan3f

warhammer has put a damper in the circle strafers and jumpers.. if you are standing while fighting and not jumping or moving you get a boost to your damage. and you auto face your target so it doesnt matter if hes running around you, you still hit him but with your dmg boost.

Sorry but i have never heard that if you are moving you take more damage, do you have a source please?

Originally posted by Miner-2049er

I'm watched a few WAR videos like this one (chosen at random, it's nothing special)...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pHAGtyNMz8

... and I'm so bored of these ridiculous fight moves. Is this the new generation of PvP?

I gather the Romans, and the Greeks knew a bit about warfare and yet they never trained their soldiers to approach the enemy jumping and spinning.

1) A player in full armour should not be able to jump

2) A player in full armour should not be able to spin around someone without them getting a free hit.

3) In order to actualy hit a target, the target should be within a limited arc of the sword arm, and in range. A poor angle should reduce the damage done.

4) If a jumping soldier is hit (as a light armour melee) he would most likely fall over due to poor balance in the stance, This would leave the opponent a good change for a free hit.

5) Running round a person is clearly slower than rotating a small amount to face someone, so unless you have just dodged a lunge of some form you should not be able to strike the opposition from the side.

I actually like PvP in MMOs but the actual PvP we get on screen is an embarrasing parody of combat and looks more like some bizarre dance game. Isn't it about time the PvP we got looked at least a little bit sensible.

 

 

I agree with you.
 

"I gather the Romans, and the Greeks knew a bit about warfare and yet they never trained their soldiers to approach the enemy jumping and spinning.

1) A player in full armour should not be able to jump

2) A player in full armour should not be able to spin around someone without them getting a free hit."

Although good points, heh......this my friend is NOT real combat, so your annology is teh lacking.

Yah, it is annoting as hell, just as annoying as jerks who do not even seem to want a challenge in their PvP and will corpse camp, or altar camp, or whatever teh lameness of this action is in whatever you call your MMO home.

  I have SEEN the light brothers and sisters!   Heh......(first off let me disclaimer this by stating, this is code, crafty, or lack there of, folks are always gonna find something)  Teh way past this is to get away from the die roll templated MMOs.   Moving forward I trully believe for good PvP it is gonna be the skill based games with active targeting that will help "weed" out teh arsehats.

  Think about it, you can set up your skill system in whatever crafty way you come up with, but until you have to actually aim, and watch for your team mates for REAL, I.E. you swing, they stumble in the path and get smacked,  are we gonna see some REAL good PvP.

  This is of course my opinon, but it will take a lot more hand eye coordination, and not just slick keyboard strokes to win fights.  Oh, and of course skill at setting up your "load out"  Die roll type MMOs are a thing of teh past for PvP (I stress for PvP) as far as I am concerned.  Because you will always (no matter how well balanced) have the "OP" classes, and or the "OP" template in which to focus said class and skill points, attribute points, what have you.

  I can think of three MMOs right now that will bring this to us soon, TCoS, heh Darkfall, and MortalOnline.

Now don't get me wrong, "die rolls" will always have to be there in some manner,  I am just saying not as the whole mechanic backbone of the game, as it were.

"Sorry but i have never heard that if you are moving you take more damage, do you have a source please?"

Wow, didn't read what was posted at all.

"...if you are standing while fighting and not jumping or moving you get a boost to your damage."

Stand still while fighting and you get a damage boost. Hop around like an idiot, no boost and you get laughed at.

yup. most people are probably going to come here and say

"oh but it takes skill to do that well"

i couldnt give a shit, it looks fucking awful. i hoped in conan that you'd get a stam reduction if you jumped while in combat but noo they dropped that (and i am soon dropping conan i feel) thought it was time for a real fight you know.

i dont care for the outcome of a battle if it was a good fight to look at. i dont like giving myself an epileptic fit just trying to watch the fight. thats no fun..

Originally posted by SirLorn

1) A player in full armour should not be able to jump

I've seen a guy wearing plate armour do a backflip. It's evenly distributed weight and not as heavy as you think it is. It is tiring however so you can't do a whole lot of it without resting.

I have fought in a mix of Plate and chain and leather, and I know a couple of blokes that can do a flip while in armor.  That has nothing to do with it. 

  Well wait, maybe it does, see.....teh point he was trying to make is this was not standard training as it were, BUT teh fact you brought this up is a good look at what someone with some skillz might do IF the situation actually "called" for it.   Example, oh please use your dang imaginations, heh......

  I mean, it could go down very badly, lol, or it could be one hell of a move with some flare in a fight, and hope someone was FRAP'zing it too, ./chuckle

./shrug......just some thoughts =P

wasd + cone of fire (swing/cast/whatever) +pvp = fps analogue pvp = circle strafing

Originally posted by Miner-2049er

I'm watched a few WAR videos like this one (chosen at random, it's nothing special)...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pHAGtyNMz8

... and I'm so bored of these ridiculous fight moves. Is this the new generation of PvP?

I gather the Romans, and the Greeks knew a bit about warfare and yet they never trained their soldiers to approach the enemy jumping and spinning.

1) A player in full armour should not be able to jump

2) A player in full armour should not be able to spin around someone without them getting a free hit.

3) In order to actualy hit a target, the target should be within a limited arc of the sword arm, and in range. A poor angle should reduce the damage done.

4) If a jumping soldier is hit (as a light armour melee) he would most likely fall over due to poor balance in the stance, This would leave the opponent a good change for a free hit.

5) Running round a person is clearly slower than rotating a small amount to face someone, so unless you have just dodged a lunge of some form you should not be able to strike the opposition from the side.

I actually like PvP in MMOs but the actual PvP we get on screen is an embarrasing parody of combat and looks more like some bizarre dance game. Isn't it about time the PvP we got looked at least a little bit sensible.

 

 

This is so dumb and here is why:

1) Its not real combat

2) In real combat a sword through you kills you

3) In real combat arrows kill you or at least make you limp /fall on ground.

4) In real combat people do not call fireballs and darkmagic out of the sky

5) in real combat people don't use runes, dark powers, or divine powers to heall all injuries in 2 secs.

6) In real combat .. you can't wear armor all day for 20 days ina  row.

7) in real combat you need to eat , and poop.

8) "In real combat" interjecting this however you want, is just dumb; as proved in the above.

Anyone else please feel free to add to the list of things that do or do not happen "in real combat" that do in GAMES. Yes they are fun , but they are just games in the end.

I mainly bunny hop out of habit, it comes naturally to me, and sometimes it can confuse your opponent. You can complain about it as much as you want but it's no extra effort for me and if it throws off my opponent a little bit, well thats good...

I'd be more worried about the dullness that combat can be sometimes, if it wasn't so dull people would probably bunny hop and spin far less. If combat was more intensive most of us wouldn't have time to do it :P

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by SirLorn

1) A player in full armour should not be able to jump

 

I've seen a guy wearing plate armour do a backflip. It's evenly distributed weight and not as heavy as you think it is. It is tiring however so you can't do a whole lot of it without resting.

Did you ever see someone in plate armor repeatedly bounce 4 feet in the air?

Did the Greeks and Romans also shoot fireballs out of their hands? Or cast deadly DoTs? When a soldier died did he respawn a few paces away? Did clerics cast healing spells to save lives? I'm no historian, but I'd wager the answer is no. Lighten up.

SO, Bigdavo, you say that you do this out of habbit in .....what?!  Are you refering to multiple MMOS?!  Or just WoW?  

From my experience, it comes more from folks that look for each and every way to gain the upper hand in games, regardless.

  In VG for example, the only "bunny" hopping you will come across in PvP are cheap arse Monks that use a sploit to remove DoTs after they have macro one shot'd their opponent.   Do not get me wrong, VG is FAR from balanced.   Heh, but my point is, the combat can be pretty damn intense and fun as hell,  as long as your fighting someone that wants some challenge.

  You say you do this out of habbit, regardless of whatever MMO you play,  try and break your habit, heh.....and see if you still come out on "top" as much.....if so, well then, no need for your "Peter cotton tail" manuevers, ehhh?!

A few people have come back at my original post and reminded me that the MMO world isn't in fact real combat so anything goes - realism is not important, but fun is.

Still, I notice that in other games the use of realistic physics engines can make the gameplay more satisfying. I personally feel that combat would be more interesting if it provided methods for distacting or dodging the enemy that were more believeable.

The same is true in Cinema, films like Lord of the Rings work even with magic because there is consistency in the way things behave. They still have some respect for the laws of physics, and bend them rather than simply ignore them.

To be honest, I'm not looking for a perfect simulation. I just happen to think that all this hopping and spinning looks downright stupid. I'm not trying to remove people's opportunities in PvP, but I still think it could be done with face-to-face close combat.

(BTW, this is not a 'me' VS 'them' post. In order to complete at PvP I've adopted the same strategies and use them to help my fights, but it just feels so wrong, it just doesn't look anything like real fighting to me).

jumping a lol coptering is something I avoid.   You can literally set up a fricking bot to do it in a short while.   However you can't set up a bot to make tactical decisions, to intuitivly know what the enemies next move is based on the current situation and personality that you've seen so far, and one that knows when to pull out an ace.

Originally posted by brostyn

Did the Greeks and Romans also shoot fireballs out of their hands? Or cast deadly DoTs? When a soldier died did he respawn a few paces away? Did clerics cast healing spells to save lives? I'm no historian, but I'd wager the answer is no. Lighten up.

By your logic, we might as well have propellers sprout from our asses so we can swim faster.

Originally posted by rikilii

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by SirLorn

1) A player in full armour should not be able to jump

 

I've seen a guy wearing plate armour do a backflip. It's evenly distributed weight and not as heavy as you think it is. It is tiring however so you can't do a whole lot of it without resting.

 

Did you ever see someone in plate armor repeatedly bounce 4 feet in the air?

Have you ever seen someone not in plate armor repeatedly bounce 4 feet in the air?

Ive been doing this since i started playing doom deathmatch.In most MMO's you have to be facing your target to attack so if i can jump around and circle strafe and make it hard for you to hit me then im gonna do it.Im competitive and want to win and dont care what makes you mad when were fighting in a game.I will use every advantage i have.Is that not why we pvp to have a challenge and try to find ways to come out on top and best the opposition?

      I hated bunny hopping in WoW....To me it was a cowardly move.....I'd rather have someone run away than bunny hop like an idiot......As for spinning I only saw it a couple times...once it was a level 42 paladin and I had a 49 shaman....I thought heck I;m 7 levels higher I should own him....he then killed me in one hit while he was spinning.....I'm sure it was a hack as then I watched and he killed every single player in one shot throughout the entire scenario and was spinning the entire time.......

Originally posted by Miner-2049er

A few people have come back at my original post and reminded me that the MMO world isn't in fact real combat so anything goes - realism is not important, but fun is.

Still, I notice that in other games the use of realistic physics engines can make the gameplay more satisfying. I personally feel that combat would be more interesting if it provided methods for distacting or dodging the enemy that were more believeable.

The same is true in Cinema, films like Lord of the Rings work even with magic because there is consistency in the way things behave. They still have some respect for the laws of physics, and bend them rather than simply ignore them.

To be honest, I'm not looking for a perfect simulation. I just happen to think that all this hopping and spinning looks downright stupid. I'm not trying to remove people's opportunities in PvP, but I still think it could be done with face-to-face close combat.

(BTW, this is not a 'me' VS 'them' post. In order to complete at PvP I've adopted the same strategies and use them to help my fights, but it just feels so wrong, it just doesn't look anything like real fighting to me).

 

I understand and agree with everything you are saying. I also think that jumping around in PVP looks stupid. Thats why Lineage 2 still has the best PVP of any game available because the PVP is face to face with nobody jumping all on top of the other persons head like he playing Super Mario Bros. Of course these are games but at least try make the PVP look as realistic as possible.

Originally posted by SirLorn

SO, Bigdavo, you say that you do this out of habbit in .....what?!  Are you refering to multiple MMOS?!  Or just WoW?  

From my experience, it comes more from folks that look for each and every way to gain the upper hand in games, regardless.

  In VG for example, the only "bunny" hopping you will come across in PvP are cheap arse Monks that use a sploit to remove DoTs after they have macro one shot'd their opponent.   Do not get me wrong, VG is FAR from balanced.   Heh, but my point is, the combat can be pretty damn intense and fun as hell,  as long as your fighting someone that wants some challenge.

  You say you do this out of habbit, regardless of whatever MMO you play,  try and break your habit, heh.....and see if you still come out on "top" as much.....if so, well then, no need for your "Peter cotton tail" manuevers, ehhh?!

I suspect that BigDavo was referring to  the habit of bunny hopping in FPSs rather than other mmos.....

As for me, occasionally bunny hopping is handy to get past tanks and reach the squishies in games with collision detection....like CoX or WAR....