General Discussion

Russian bombers land in Venezuela yesterday and now Chavez is ordering the U.S. Ambassador to leave the country in 72 hours (this and the fact that the Saudis left OPEC citing Chavez is an idiot). This isn't looking good. Russia has definetely gone off the deep end and Venezuela is following suit 

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CARACAS, Venezuela — President Hugo Chavez ordered the U.S. ambassador to leave Venezuela within 72 hours on Thursday, accusing the diplomat of conspiring against his government and saying he would also withdraw his own envoy from Washington immediately.

Chavez made the move in solidarity with Bolivia after his Andean ally expelled the U.S. diplomat there, accusing him of aiding violent protests. He said a new American ambassador will not be welcome in Caracas "until there's a U.S. government that respects the people of Latin America," suggesting that diplomatic relations will be scaled back until President Bush leaves the White House.

"They're trying to do here what they were doing in Bolivia," Chavez said, accusing Washington of trying to oust him.

"That's enough ... from you, Yankees," Chavez said, using an expletive. Waving his fists in the air, he added: "I hold the government of the United States responsible for being behind all the conspiracies against our nations!"

Holding up a watch to check the time, Chavez declared: "From this moment, the Yankee ambassador in Caracas has 72 hours to leave Venezuela!" He told his foreign minister to recall Venezuela's ambassador to Washington, Bernardo Alvarez, "before they kick him out of there."

The diplomatic spat brings relations between the two countries to a new low and raises questions about whether it could hurt trade. Venezuela is the fourth-largest oil supplier to the United States, and Chavez also threatened to cut off crude shipments "if there's any aggression against Venezuela."

Chavez has threatened to stop selling oil to the United States on a number of occasions. But the U.S. is Venezuela's No. 1 oil client, and taking such an action would debilitate his government financially.

Duddy, who was posted in Venezuela just last year, irritated Chavez last month when he lamented that U.S. and Venezuelan officials have not been cooperating in fighting drug trafficking. Deteriorating relations were giving cocaine smugglers the upper hand, he said.

The socialist president responded by warning that Duddy could soon be "packing his bags."

Simmering tensions between Venezuela and the U.S. began heating up even more this week after two Russian strategic bombers were deployed to the country at Chavez's invitation.

"The presence of those Russian planes in Venezuela is a warning," Chavez said Thursday. "There's nothing better to keep yourself from being attacked than to dissuade."

Hours before announcing the ambassador's expulsion, Chavez said his government had detained a group of alleged conspirators in a plot to overthrow him. He accused the group of active and former military officers of trying to assassinate him with backing from the United States.

Chavez has repeatedly accused Washington of backing plots to have him killed or ousted — and U.S. officials have repeatedly denied the allegations.

I do not think Russia has gone off the deep end.

Russia never left the deep end.

Calling Russia a "democracy" will not make it so.  Saying the "surge is working" will not make it sustainable. 

I have personally met, and spoke with, Russian experts with Ph.D.s from the finest universities; people have who have work for the State Department, lived in Russia, and speak Russian.

They told me about Russia YEARS ago.  There are excellent books out there about this.  Russia is a dictatorship, and not much will ever be done; it is how they wrote their Constitution that enabled Putin to essentially retain power indefinitely with zero oversight or accountability. 

Cold War II

Actually the withdrawl of ambassadors usually precedes wars.  This is a good way to shake the oil markets tho which means more money for him to buy weapons from Russia with.

Originally posted by BushMonkey

Actually the withdrawl of ambassadors usually precedes wars.  This is a good way to shake the oil markets tho which means more money for him to buy weapons from Russia with.

You don't think this has anything to do with our economy, do you? Also, what exactly can venezuela do besides withhold crude shipments?

From the way Chavez was talking, I wouldn't be surprised that this time around he was right about assassins.

Here is what is going on. Russia is looking to further weaken our economy. But failed when the Saudis disagreed to a plan to increase oil. They said no more and sighted with our side and left. Russia was hoping the meeting with HC would go well and the Saudis would agree to terms. They so badly want to hurt us economicly so that they can provide for the world and be glorified. All they need to do is help anyway and they will be treated as such. I don't understand all there stupid antics.

I kinda sense another War but from South America and Russia being the sole provider of all military weapons and equipments. I hope I am wrong though.

Originally posted by Gazenthia

Originally posted by BushMonkey

Actually the withdrawl of ambassadors usually precedes wars.  This is a good way to shake the oil markets tho which means more money for him to buy weapons from Russia with.

 

You don't think this has anything to do with our economy, do you? Also, what exactly can venezuela do besides withhold crude shipments?

From the way Chavez was talking, I wouldn't be surprised that this time around he was right about assassins.

 Just pointing out his posturing could help cause  a slowing or even a reversal of crude prices, you know how the markets react to any bump in supply, the investors go nuts and crude shoots upward. And more for crude means more money in his and other  assorted Dictators pockets.

www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/import.html

Crude Oil Imports (Top 15 Countries)
(Thousand Barrels per Day)
Country Jun-08 May-08 YTD 2008 Jun-07 YTD 2007

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CANADA 1,883 1,840 1,888 1,905 1,881
SAUDI ARABIA 1,479 1,579 1,523 1,501 1,407
MEXICO 1,124 1,116 1,193 1,392 1,454
VENEZUELA 1,085 1,030 1,012 1,135 1,109
NIGERIA 946 851 1,036 893 1,022
IRAQ 693 583 674 573 476
ANGOLA 636 464 496 502 568
BRAZIL 280 318 221 121 158
ALGERIA 269 440 319 504 494
RUSSIA 228 119 109 29 135
KUWAIT 179 263 219 263 193
ECUADOR 178 162 192 166 195
COLOMBIA 177 245 182 143 108
CHAD 107 57 101 80 69
LIBYA 89 96 76 144 66

As you can see Venezuela provides about 15% of us oil imports,nearly 50 billion dollars a years worth at 105 dollars a barrel, if they withheld there amount it would be roughly 50 cents more a gallon for gas.However winter is coming and gas /oil will rise with winter's demand for fuel oil. 
 

So yes i'm sure it is just another cut of a thousand cuts against the American economy.  But we can easily fight back, don't buy gas at 7=11's/CITGO gas  citgoboycott.org/  If he wants to screw around we the consumers can also bite back.

www.marketwatch.com/news/story/chavez-threatens-europe-oil-boycott/story.aspx

LONDON (MarketWatch) -- Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez threatened the European Union with an oil boycott after the E.U. parliament passed rules deporting illegal immigrants. "Our oil shouldn't go to those countries" in Europe who apply new rules for deporting illegal immigrants, The Guardian newspaper reported, citing a televised speech. He also threatened to block European investments in his country, the newspaper said. The report noted that Venezuela supplies most of its oil to the U.S. and not Europe.

This tool will be out of business if he keeps on with his foolishness

Originally posted by Tyres100

Here is what is going on. Russia is looking to further weaken our economy. But failed when the Saudis disagreed to a plan to increase oil. They said no more and sighted with our side and left. Russia was hoping the meeting with HC would go well and the Saudis would agree to terms. They so badly want to hurt us economicly so that they can provide for the world and be glorified. All they need to do is help anyway and they will be treated as such. I don't understand all there stupid antics.

I kinda sense another War but from South America and Russia being the sole provider of all military weapons and equipments. I hope I am wrong though.

Sure the Russians have been using "capitalism" to their advantage with wearing a false mask of friendly democracy as much as possible for a while now. Putin, ex-chief of the KGB...and people thought he likes us....how?

As far as "senseing" another war...wellif its Venezuela, they have no real offensive capibilities that really matter. Just because the Russians are having an exersise there doesn't mean they are ready for a war. What convential threat do they pose? Zero. They have no way of staging any sort of offensive outside of their own boarders. They have no naval forces of any significance, no sea lift / amphibious assault capacity at all and no air lift capabilites nor any means of estabilishing any air superiority at all. They are currently nothing more then a dog with no teeth. How would they "war" with us aside from a proxy with one of their neighbors?

The Russians, they are just looking to rattle our cage. We encroached deep into their territory so they are going to make a show of encroaching into ours. (EDIT the Russians currently also face a similar problem, they have no way of projecting any significate conventional threat outside of their geographical sphere of influence especially overseas any "buildup" would take them a huge amount of time and be so painfully easy to spot)

We are doing some very provocative things in Eastern Europe so, as they have ALWAYS done, they will in turn do provocative things in ours.

If anything we heading straight into a second cold war.